Warmach1ne32
Machine of War and Quests
- Location
- Indonesia
We just got mauled by the Khan, everyone knows we are sort of nearly dead at this point right?
The Ymaryn: Succession
- Thread starter Redium
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Alt. History
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We're really isolationist, and very importantly, we fought off the Khan. Outsiders won't immediately understand the internal politics and crises of the Ymaryn. As long as the provinces don't actively turn hostile and go to war with each other, we look pretty damn impressive, though the people's to the west won't be as aware of it, having not had contact with the Khans forces.
If we play it cool and rely on our diplo hero, I think we can downplay how on fire everything is to some extent. Well not everything, but if we can avoid ticking off the other heroes we have potential.
If we play it cool and rely on our diplo hero, I think we can downplay how on fire everything is to some extent. Well not everything, but if we can avoid ticking off the other heroes we have potential.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
This makes me sad. The Mercahnts are, by and large, descended from the Travellers. When the People were 3, they were just as important as Redshore and Valleyhome.
How far the People have fallen.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, gives me some very isolationist China vibes. We, uh should probably see about mitigating that in the future. I'm glad we chose the diplo hero, that's a good base for taking to people further out and encouraging more contact.
I see a problem with this plan: you're asking for 6 advisors, but have only specified 5.
You can double up (specify with *2) if you so desire. Patricians are common for that since they tend to be so versatile and highly skilled.
No.
Something like 40% of all arable land is turned over to forestry. 30% is used to produce staple goods. 10% luxuries and 20% has been destroyed beyond easy reclamation.
Ymaryn forests do produce food: they tend to be dominated by fruit and nut trees and have extensive grazing for pigs and rabbits, but there's only so much that's capable of. Forests are really only good for 1-2 harvests a year. Even though this harvest actually produces slightly more calories than traditional agriculture, for more traditional crops, the Ymaryn normally expect 3-4 harvests a year.
Why would they know? The Ymaryn are isolationist and have stood unbroken since literally before the dawn of recorded history. Why would anyone expect you're having trouble? The only people who might find out are merchants (when you're no longer able to trade as much) and people who are explicitly spying on you, which isn't many because most people have their own petty geopolitical struggles. It was only when all of Syffryn joined together that there was a remote hope of contesting the Ymaryn (very rare) or when the Stymyr managed to get their act together (rare). Much better to play against people in your own leauge.
Even then, would you believe reports that the Titan sitting astride the world has been broken by some horse nomads? It's unbelievable. The Ymaryn have been very good at being a beacon for most previous nomadic hordes, causing them to stall out and get wiped out before hitting Syffryn. None of the not!European powers really appreciates how dangerous nomads could be.
If you descend into open war between provinces, that will clue outsiders in, but right now none of the Ymaryn want to say how bad things are. If they can even begin to fathom the scope of the problem.
To be honest, I think AN should've hit us with that back in PoC. We were isolationist, even if we didn't think that. Aside from war, did we really ever interact with our neighbours? Once or twice maybe, but we'd easily go a dozen turns in between and that's simply too long. He also should've wacked us earlier with Pride in Acceptance. Yes, we took in refugees, but we never dealt with the outside world in a constructive manner.
If you're not interested in the outside world and you have an explicit scholar-administrator class to balance the economy, why do you need merchants? They became so marginalized in the Ymaryn because there's very little for them to do, just push goods around on the margins. If you're looking to buy manufactured goods, go to the Guilds. If you're looking to buy agricultural products that's either provided by the Patricians (who manage the state run economy) or Gentry for rarer luxuries.
His Dream was always to try and break Ymaryn isolationism by going on a voyage of exploration. It was mentioned in the chapter. There's enough in the last update to figure out what Ydrys will Dream of too, even if it won't proc until you hit the correct crisis.
The Ymaryn were very much based on the Chinese. That's pretty much what everyone saw as being ideal back in PoC: a large, bureaucratic state with no private property and an appreciation for the environment. Plus being really welcoming to outsiders, but the players never really walked the walk on that. China only really differed in that it was forced to give concessions to its gentry, granting them land. There are elements from other cultures in there, but they haven't really had the chance to surface yet.
I will say that on the spectrum between Westernized individualistic cultures and collectivized Eastern ones, the Ymaryn tend to be much closer to the latter.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Whoops, I must've miscounted when I was assigning advisers, I'll fix that. I guess it was 5. Which leaves us with potentially 3 open spots to bring people into the inner circle. I'm really banking on Dyfan for the general if we can reconcile.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Makes sense, but are the future crises going to be further cases of picking our poison with no way to avoid it or it will it be possible to succeed in the future? Because while I am interested in a Ymaryn successor quest, I am not interested in a quest where we can't win and it is just a case of how badly we lose. Which is why I partook in Aranfan's quest, but quit during AN's Lightning Rounds as with the former, it was hard to succeed, but could be done with the right choices and some luck while with the latter was just picking how we lost with no chance to win.
I just want to know if this is a quest that I should be getting invested in or if it is something I should cut my losses on.
Edit: Actually what just this option entail?
I've just been assuming it involves cutting down most of the forests and killing the priests when they protest and resist like in the PoC lightning rounds.
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A perfect run was theoretically possible. You would've had to pick the Martial Hero since he came with Western Wall. Resettling the peasants would've given 3 points in that case and allowed you to solve crises by buying food internationally or expanding your borders further into not!Ukraine to take more land under cultivation.
Objectively, this is the most serious crisis by far. The next largest starts with a baseline of 3 points to solve, but you can make the situation worse depending on how you solve previous crises. There was a reason the Ymaryn failed to overcome this in PoC. It should be hard.
If you're willing to take one on the chin this turn and them solve the agricultural crisis in turn 2, you can avoid cutting down the Sacred Forest. It means losing something, but all options entail that. You just need to hope the next crisis has a more palatable solution. Some are much easier to stomach than others.
It wouldn't be that bad since the Ymaryn aren't yet that desperate. A large part of why things got bad in PoC was because of the lack of good leadership that you have in this AU. You'd stillcut down a significant part of the forest, perhaps a third? It won't destroy the Sacred Forest and you could remediate it in the future, especially if you secure more land to take under cultivation.
It's tremendously unlikely that the Sacred Forest will be fully lost.
There will likely be violence involved, but all options involve a degree of it. Forcing peasants to move requires either enserfing them (to restrict their movement) or coercion/threats. Buying food internationally means crushing taxes will need to be levied. Tearing out cash crops means appropriating land and destroying peoples' livelihoods. Levying the poor as an army means killing them in war and stealing from your neighbours is obvious violence.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh, I was assuming the Sacred Forest would be destroyed entirely, killing all the priests. If no one else is making a plan, do any of my voters want me to switch ripping out cash crops for 1/3 Sacred Forest?
Well that relies on people seeing this post, but yeah. It's probably worth it if we can fix it later.
Well that relies on people seeing this post, but yeah. It's probably worth it if we can fix it later.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That sounds bearable if this crisis is the worst of them (barring us making future crises worst with our choices).
I assume that securing more land means getting up to pre-Khan levels of farmland, either from conquest or fixing the damage that was done to old farmland? And would there be a time limit to get that done and if so, how long would it be?
@Redium Does this favour means that we owe Western Wall a favour or does it mean that Western Wall owes us a favour? I'm assuming the latter from the wording, but I want to make sure.
Yes, I had voted yet. I would make the plan myself with this new information, but I was going to see if I could convince you first.
Edit: I would say go for it because if we can doesn't destroy everything and we can fix it later, we can tank it for now rather than risk something worse from the Table of Pain. @Redium How bad is the Table of Pain?
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- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wait, shit, I meant to call it Sacred Gambling. I don't want to change the plan on people who have already voted.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, if you are just making a new plan and not actually changing your old one, I am just going to make my own.
[X] Plan Calculated Pain
-[X] Parliament's Choices
-[X] Yes
-[X] Dyfan has called for refugees to help resettle Western Wall, push everyone you can onto him (2, Provides 1 Favour with WW)
-[X] Cut down large sections of the Sacred Forest to turn over to croplands. (3)
-[X] 5
-[X] Patrician (Highly politically connected, multi-disciplinary, profoundly skilled)
-[X] Guild Master (Technology and industry focused)
-[X] The Heir (The next King. Selected by Parliament, tends towards being competent.)
-[X] King's Wife (Tend to vary profoundly in ability and loyalty.)
-[X] Governor's Appointee [Txolla] (Provides a key way to address local issues)
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh fuck it then, whatever. I'll strike them both through and vote Oshha. I screwed this up.
[X] Plan Calculated Pain
[X] Plan Calculated Pain
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You will want to remove the 'X's from the brackets rather than just striking though that doesn't actually delete your vote if it is on the same post as your latest vote.
Edit: Ah, nevermind, you are making your vote in a new post rather than editing your old post.
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[X] Plan Calculated Pain
Fixing what was damaged by the Khan would permit it. Alternatively, expanding your borders would as well. In this AU, the Core basically comprises all of the Caucasus, including eastern Turkey, and everything east of the Sea of Azov over to Astrakhan on the Caspian Sea. You are directly on the Steppes and can expand into them. They're occupied by nomads, but not anyone of significance right now. The Great Khan either co-opted them or wiped them out.
Txolla would correspond to the northern and western parts of Iran, eastern half of Syria, Iraq, and Kuwait.
They owe you. Western Wall has been basically depopulated. Without an influx of refugees, Dyfas is going to have to make some very hard choices about stabilizing the region.
The favour would be significant, on the level of calling them into a war that they have no reason to fight. Alternatively, you could use it to buy a large one-time payout of cash or land. The only reason you can take land is because you're all Ymaryn. Trading stewardship of the land between the People would be painful sacrifice but one within the bounds of PSoN.
Worst option is either losing 1 action permanently or one of your Free Cities collapsing, but that's like rolling 1 or <5 on a d100. It's much more likely that you lose 1-2 level to one of your values (all level 3, except Personal Stewards of Nature which is level 4), or you eat a fair amount of infrastructure damage (30%).
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To hell with it, I just deleted my plan posts entirely, that was an embarrassment. I should't've assumed Sacred Forest was a nonviable option to begin with.
Gambling was just Oshhas plan with SF switched for Txolla anyway. Ughh, I feel bad about this. I shouldn't think this hard about it even.
I suggest holding on the WW favor and trying to get in deep with them instead of reading favors, depending on what we get next turn.
Gambling was just Oshhas plan with SF switched for Txolla anyway. Ughh, I feel bad about this. I shouldn't think this hard about it even.
I suggest holding on the WW favor and trying to get in deep with them instead of reading favors, depending on what we get next turn.
What you're missing is the Ymaryn are in the middle of the Silk Road. Most of everything that goes from China to Europe and back goes through Ymaryn territory at one point or another.
This means the merchant class makes a ton of money serving as intermediaries to everyone in Europe who wants to buy silk or eastern spices in exchange for the precious metals which are the only thing actual China accepts. Which is something else you are missing, because the Ymaryn have always bought a lot of resources from outside, unlike China where it is a point of policy not to do so.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
After all, the Sacred Forest wasn't fully lost even back in PoI. It had just degraded back down to level 1.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I assume that these things will be on the more permanent side of things? I'm assuming that the Table of Pain is cutting into the stuff we kept due to continuation and losing it now means we can't easily recover it.
As for cutting down part of the Sacred Forest, the lesser evil might be evil, but it is also the lesser as well. It will hurt, but we can manage it and I would rather take this now, knowing it can be fixed than risk worst, unfixable damage from not doing it. We can recover from doing this if we don't go further down the path, but we will find it much harder to recover from not doing it.
We don't lose the Sacred Forest from taking this option. It will be hurt, but everything is going to be hurting and at least we know that this is fixable and I don't see how future crises could be fixed by cutting down more of it. Plus all of that lumber could be useful if for selling or using in fixing stuff.
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