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The Unification of Britain (CK2, Original) [Dead due to a RL event]

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ChaosCircle said:
[Intrigue] Investigate the Red Jewels That Fell: We should send agents to investigate what happened to these jewels. They seem to be heavily in use by Segontium's mages and only God knows what they are doing with them. They are our chief rivals, at least among the British, and we should keep an eye on their major activities. Particularly the suspiciously magical activities.
Time: 1 Season, Reward: You know what happened to the jewels, Risk: Unknown (Contested action)
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Right I feel that this should be a mandatory action given the 1 we got on the event roll.

ChaosCircle said:
[Stewardship] Focus on Blacksmiths: Londinium is a large city and has main talented artisans. However, if one was to focus on a particularly industry it is quite possible for it to become the premier source for that particular good. It would be useful for trade, and in the case of Blacksmiths, the military as well. A powerful industrial base could serve as the platform from which you grew.
Time: 1 Season, Reward: +1 Trade Route unlocked due to an excess of metal products, +2 Equipment quality for Londinium's legions. Locks all Stewardship Focus options.
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I also think this would be a good idea since it both raise our troops effectiveness and give us a new trade route.
 
Judging by the threadmark, all of Britain has been dragged back in time 200 years. Once we take control of the island, we can reach out to Rome and prevent its fall!

I think negotiating with the Witches is the way to go. We're already allied with the Necromancer faction, so whatever religious friction it causes should be manageable. Rome also has a history of animal sacrifice in seeking the favor of the gods that isn't that far off in the mists of history. The action savings, if we can scoop up a major lore in a few actions, is just too compelling.

Speaking of Necromancers, I think we should consider hiring some. It would bring our revenue down to neutral, but we don't have anything gated behind silver right now. Spending an action now would let us either stop spending an action every turn keeping Merlin in the field or let us double up our magical support. In any kind of 4X game it's usually better to spend all your money early so you can expand faster than your neighbors.

@ChaosCircle am I reading it right that we have five dice to use in our plans this turn?
 
I'm not sure if there's a moratorium, but this is the plan I'd like:

[X] Plan: Begin Blobbing

- [X] [Sorcery] Hire Necromancers: The Necromancers of Moridunium are a powerful class of mages whose fell magic is feared on the battlefield by all that oppose them. In fact, the Morrigan was granted a large degree of autonomy just because the Romans feared open battle with dozens of powerful Necromancers. For the right price, one might acquire this power as your own but the price is rather steep.
Time: 1 Season, Reward: One Legion is now supported by a Necromancer Hero and his students. Cost: 300 Silver Bars / Season.

- [X] [Stewardship] Focus on Blacksmiths: Londinium is a large city and has main talented artisans. However, if one was to focus on a particularly industry it is quite possible for it to become the premier source for that particular good. It would be useful for trade, and in the case of Blacksmiths, the military as well. A powerful industrial base could serve as the platform from which you grew.
Time: 1 Season, Reward: +1 Trade Route unlocked due to an excess of metal products, +2 Equipment quality for Londinium's legions. Locks all Stewardship Focus options.

- [X] [Martial] Supporting the War Effort: Your men need supplies and women. Preferably in large quantities of both. Spend the time to see that they are well supplied so they do not start suffering penalties from low morale
Time: 1 Season, Reward: You don't have logistical penalties.

- [X] [Diplomacy] Negotiate with Dragons: Dragons are an out of context problem. Dragonslayers exist but who can vet them effectively when there have been no dragons to hunt for generations? Share some of your treasure and ally yourself with a Dragon is the rational course of action.
Time: 1 Season Cost: -50 Silver Bars/Season Reward: Gain a Dragon ally who calls Londinium his home. In theory, this dragon keeps the other dragons at bay. In practice, your dragon might die.

- [X] [Intrigue] Negotiate with the Witches: They want to be able to practice without fear of retribution, you want access to all the magical power you can get your hands on. It is a match made in Heaven...or Hell. One of those.
Time: 1 Season, Reward: Witch Infestation Harnessed, One legion is supported by ???? magic. Access to ??? Lore. Consequences ???? and ????.

- [X] [Personal] Train Attribute: Martial

Reasoning:

The red jewels are important, but not urgent. I don't think we need to jump into an unknown DC action right away. We already knew we were going to conquer those guys eventually, and the information would be more valuable if we gather it closer to open conflict. I really doubt we're going to get an option to nip the problem in the bud.

Hiring Necromancers gets magical support to our armies without tying up future actions. We're going to be at war for a long time. Locking up an action every turn to keep Merlin in the field should be an emergency option, not the normal state of affairs. I'd much rather run a money deficit than an action deficit.

Blacksmiths buff our legions and should bring us back up to neutral or positive income via trade.

Legion support should help finish off our southern fighting ASAP.

The witches get us access to a Lore, which otherwise would take 40+ seasons. There will be drawbacks, but they should be manageable.

Having a Dragon ally seems useful. For now, it's just keeping other dragons away, but maybe we can negotiate some orc-roasting in the future.

Basically, the witch + dragon option represents us adapting to make use of local resources, instead of using the power of Rome to crush all the weird shit in Britain.
 
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[X] Plan: Preparing for Battle

Mostly agree with the plan, kind of wish for the blacksmith focus but not too important to me to not pick the plan.
 
@ChaosCircle What exactly do we know about the Witches at the moment? We currently have two different courses of action we could take, but I feel like we don't really have enough information at the moment to make an informed decision. What exactly are the "dark magic" and "satanic rituals" that they're performing? Is that just a kneejerk reaction and judgement, or are they genuinely evil? What do Drust, Merlin, and our wife think?

If allying with them means we have to provide something ridiculous like virgin sacrifices, or that everyone is going to think we're evil, then it's probably not worth it in my opinion. On the other hand, if Witches are neutral, and aren't a grave danger to our people or reputation, then recruiting them seems like a good idea.
 
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Ptolemy said:
@ChaosCircle What exactly do we know about the Witches at the moment?
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I'm going to go a bit OOC with this answer since it is relevant to the other events as well in terms of how I'm generating random events and their direction.
  • They are either using Unseelie Magic (similar to the trait, a selection of dark magic spells taught to them by an Unseelie) or Demon Magic (Witchcraft) which is outright evil.
  • Their magic is strongest at night which is a trait of dark/destructive magic.
  • Their rituals are performed at night which is a trait of dark/destructive magic.
  • They don't care about collateral damage to innocent people's property.
  • They are engaging in pagan rituals that are conjuring something they don't fully control.
  • The thing they are summoning may be a Demon.
  • The thing they are summoning may be a monster from the Unseelie kingdom and/or they are negotiating with an Unseelie who lets its pets roam slaughtering animals.
  • Whatever they are doing, they will likely need a large amount of land (to avoid collateral damage) and a regular supply of animals (to avoid collateral damage).
  • They are not interested in communicating with you directly which means an element exists that nominally believes you to be hostile to their agenda.
We currently have two different courses of action we could take, but I feel like we don't really have enough information at the moment to make an informed decision. What exactly are the "dark magic" and "satanic rituals" that they're performing? Is that just a kneejerk reaction and judgement, or are they genuinely evil?
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Well, they are performing animal sacrifices which are not unheard of or uncommon among pagan cultures.

The Church's normal reaction to that is to brand it satanic.

"Dark magic" is destructive magic or magic that requires killing as a component.

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The Unification of Britain (CK2, Original) [Dead due to a RL event] Original - Fantasy - Alt. History

A story about the unification of Fantasy!Britain
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I kinda labeled dark magic as destructive there in the traits that result in Dark Magic options. I also broke out Witchcraft as a specific lore that involves Demons. And Demons are genuinely evil.

I've been using RNG/dice to decide if things are "good" or "bad". I hadn't actually generated the "Are these people genuinely evil or merely pagan?" when I started the event. However, the rolls have trended negative so far so they are moving in the direction of "evil".

I probably rushed the posts a little too much trying to meet my self-imposed deadline, might be a mistake, but its still very much a mystery box what you get out of negotiating vs. killing the witches.

What do Drust, Merlin, and our wife think?
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Drust:
  1. He is very concerned they are meddling with his spies.
  2. He is uncertain if they are hostile given they have not done anything hostile.
  3. He wants the problem resolved ASAP because it has grown substantially in a single season.
Wife:
  1. Her people use dark magic, so the fact they are almost certainly wielding it isn't alarming.
  2. The fact they are using it without concern for damage to innocent third parties is an ethical lapse that is concerning but not alarming.
  3. Sort of like a thief. You aren't alarmed by the thief but you'd still act against them.
Merlin:
  1. Careless mages are loose cannons that should be leashed or eliminated.
If allying with them means we have to provide something ridiculous like virgin sacrifices, or that everyone is going to think we're evil, then it's probably not worth it in my opinion. On the other hand, if Witches are neutral, and aren't a grave danger to our people or reputation, then recruiting them seems like a good idea.
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They haven't engaged in any virgin/sentient sacrifices to date. Although, if they roll negative (or even neutral) again, people will start disappearing so they aren't far from that possibility either.

The longer a random option is allowed to fester, the worse the situation gets. This is accelerated by bad rolls. (i.e. Rolling a natural 1 moves you from "Oh this is trending negatively" to "Oh shit oh shit they are in league with Satan's right hand")

If they cross the "human sacrifice" line, negotiations will be off the table and your only option will be to hire witch hunters.

Ultimately it is a mystery you can only resolve by taking action. That action will have sub action(s) that will have additional decision points. So you won't be locked into "Negotiating with the Witches" if you don't like the options available to you and can always switch to "Kill the Witches". Switching, of course, will cost you something by locking a future action but such is the exploration cost involved in potentially gaining a powerful sect of mages.

I'm going to roll for Unseelie vs. Demon magic if/when you take the negotiation option.

Demon magic is evil but it can be harnessed short of going all murderhobo human sacrifices. There will be some corruption management to keep your witches from turning evil or infecting your society with evil behavior. But going Evil is not a quest ending event and you can play this out as a full fledged member of team evil.

Unseelie magic is bloody but not evil. However, you are going to have to manage a relationship with an amoral being of immense magical power.

Either way, the Witches are using a conduit of some kind to obtain their power and that comes with costs as well as benefits.
 
If anyone else has any questions feel free to @ me.

I probably should add the investigatory/negotiation/etc options are subject to change each turn and may no longer be available after this. You've gotten negative rolls on things and they will be pretty much locked in if they roll negative again.
 
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masterofmadness said:
[X] Plan: Preparing for Battle

Mostly agree with the plan, kind of wish for the blacksmith focus but not too important to me to not pick the plan.
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Raybomber said:
[X] Plan: Preparing for Battle
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Shador said:
[X] Plan: Preparing for Battle
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RandomDwarf said:
[X] Plan: Preparing for Battle
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Hey guys, just thought I'd let you know that in light of the QM's comment about the witches, I've decided to change my plan. I've dropped the intrigue action for the red stones in favour of hiring witch hunters. I've also dropped the dragon diplomacy action in favour of going down the path of getting Assassins, seeing as their event roll was very low, and it seems like otherwise there might be some conflict, because as they're engaging in lots of criminal activity in Londinium.
 
I think the additional information provides solid grounds for witch negotiations.
  1. Having a Lore is a big deal, as has been called out since faction selection.

  2. Our available actions to pick up a Lore quickly have tough DCs, tough consequences on failure, or both. The safe choices require us to lock in an action for forty or more turns.

  3. Acquiring a Lore via witches requires us to succeed at two rolls (witches not being evil, and the negotiation itself). However, neither roll is called out as particularly tough.

  4. The consequence on normal failure is just a lost action.
This is a rare moderate-risk opportunity to snap up a Lore on the cheap. We're already aligned with Team Necromancer by marriage, so we're past the point of sticking on the straight and narrow and triumphing solely through the strength of Roman legions.
 
jacobk said:
I think the additional information provides solid grounds for witch negotiations.
  1. Having a Lore is a big deal, as has been called out since faction selection.

  2. Our available actions to pick up a Lore quickly have tough DCs, tough consequences on failure, or both. The safe choices require us to lock in an action for forty or more turns.

  3. Acquiring a Lore via witches requires us to succeed at two rolls (witches not being evil, and the negotiation itself). However, neither roll is called out as particularly tough.

  4. The consequence on normal failure is just a lost action.
This is a rare moderate-risk opportunity to snap up a Lore on the cheap. We're already aligned with Team Necromancer by marriage, so we're past the point of sticking on the straight and narrow and triumphing solely through the strength of Roman legions.
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Nope. Fuck witches. No negotiating with them for me.

[X] Plan: Preparing for Battle
 
@Ptolemy would you be amicable to switching out sorcery support for the focus on blacksmithing action?

It would not only benefit our troops with better weapons, but also gain us more income over time.
 
jacobk said:
I think the additional information provides solid grounds for witch negotiations.
  1. Having a Lore is a big deal, as has been called out since faction selection.

  2. Our available actions to pick up a Lore quickly have tough DCs, tough consequences on failure, or both. The safe choices require us to lock in an action for forty or more turns.

  3. Acquiring a Lore via witches requires us to succeed at two rolls (witches not being evil, and the negotiation itself). However, neither roll is called out as particularly tough.

  4. The consequence on normal failure is just a lost action.
This is a rare moderate-risk opportunity to snap up a Lore on the cheap. We're already aligned with Team Necromancer by marriage, so we're past the point of sticking on the straight and narrow and triumphing solely through the strength of Roman legions.
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Just for clarity, its one roll that you have to succeed at (the action roll) to successfully negotiate with the witches. If they are currently working with evil, its manageable evil.

The "Witches are evil" roll is if you let the situation fester another turn and that is when negotiations would no longer be available since human sacrifice isn't something you can sell PR wise.

Fwiw, I agree with your arguments and it is the fastest way to get Lore. It just has drawbacks of dealing with an outside power that has its own agenda that is the "source" of the witches knowledge/power.
 
ChaosCircle said:
Just for clarity, its one roll that you have to succeed at (the action roll) to successfully negotiate with the witches. If they are currently working with evil, its manageable evil.

The "Witches are evil" roll is if you let the situation fester another turn and that is when negotiations would no longer be available since human sacrifice isn't something you can sell PR wise.

Fwiw, I agree with your arguments and it is the fastest way to get Lore. It just has drawbacks of dealing with an outside power that has its own agenda that is the "source" of the witches knowledge/power.
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It strikes me as very similar to the elf situation. Maintaining Roman purity set against building a local power base not dependent on a larger empire. I think it makes sense to take the same approach that we did with the elves. Having an independent minded ally to manage is a lot better than having another enemy to fight.

Even if you ultimately want to rebuild the Roman Empire in miniature in Britain, I don't think this is the moment for purity spiraling. Enlist the witches to build up a secure power base, then think about trying to convert or purge them.
 
jacobk said:
Even if you ultimately want to rebuild the Roman Empire in miniature in Britain, I don't think this is the moment for purity spiraling. Enlist the witches to build up a secure power base, then think about trying to convert or purge them.
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Considering you haven't really been taking any actions to actually show that Arthur cares at all about Romano-Breton culture specifically and instead have been acting as an independent power completely free from even the barest hold on to the traditions of Rome, I highly doubt we will do this. I wanted to do this, but the vote has put Arthur's kingdom on a completely different path.
 
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