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The Enemy Within (WHF Witch Hunter Quest)

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For the record I'm basing my vote less on "Did Karl-Franz objectively have to make a Hard But Necessary Decision about a cell of Yellow Fang cultists" more...the Emperor is the successor to Sigmar, in theory the highest authority in Sigmar's Empire, there's enormous catchet and deference baked into the rank and position even if that position has at times been occupied by "luminaries" like Ludwig the Fat, Boris the Useless, Dieter the Incompetent, it's not impossible for an Emperor to go too far and be checked by other institutions and power blocks but generally they have to go WELL out of bounds before those steps are taken, and in the circumstances given, with nobles who are Karl's vassals both in the sense that every noble family in the Empire is and also his direct vassals as Grand Prince of Reikland this is, if not something he's supposed to be doing, something he can get away with especially if it's an isolated incident.

Now, if it becomes a pattern and especially if he starts reaching out beyond Reikland to clutch at the vassals of other Electors then there are problems but we're not there yet.
 
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[X] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.
 
[X] Ours Not to Reason Why. Regardless of your own thoughts on the matter, it is not proper for the affairs of high nobility to be banded about by a common barge master and his crew. You cannot stop them from gossiping, but you can at least refuse to encourage it.

Rumour mongering without context is a right plague. Save your breath, I say.
 
[x] The Emperor oversteps.


"All the existential, subversive, and/or degenerate threats justify the fascism/authoritarianism" is one of the worst aspects of the Warhammer franchise, and people spouting that as the reasoning for their voting means I vote in the other direction.
 
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Maugan Ra said:
Personally you are a bit more ambivalent on the matter than the hoary old men who used to sit around your father's table and agitate for the campaign, for no matter how corrupt he might have been Dieter was still the rightfully elected Emperor when he granted the province its independence. Nor can a campaign of reconquest be fairly said to be in honour of Sigmar, for the Jutones never pledged to the Heldenhammer, being conquered instead by Sigismund the Second around the fifth century, and to claim legitimate ownership of the Conqueror's legacy would perforce mean laying claim to what is now a significant swathe of Bretonnia and the Border Princes.
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That's surprisingly enlightened for a noble and a Witch-Hunter.

Maugan Ra said:
Markus makes an Average (+20) perception test, skill is 62, roll is 95. Fail.
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What a good Inquisitor we are! :V

[X] The Emperor has the right. The action is legitimate, and if the proper forms were not followed, you can only trust that Karl-Franz had good cause to bypass the Diet and enact such a summary judgement upon his wayward vassal.

Karl-Franz is too decent and too competent to risk upsetting the nobility without a very good reason. Btw if Marckus thinks Dieter had the right to give Marienbourg its independence, stripping an old family of its titles is small potatoes.
 
[X] The Emperor has the right. The action is legitimate, and if the proper forms were not followed, you can only trust that Karl-Franz had good cause to bypass the Diet and enact such a summary judgement upon his wayward vassal.
 
[X] The Emperor has the right. The action is legitimate, and if the proper forms were not followed, you can only trust that Karl-Franz had good cause to bypass the Diet and enact such a summary judgement upon his wayward vassal.

Deposing some nobles is always good and clean fun.
I mean, our noble PC probably wouldn't think that, but anyway.
 
[X] The Emperor has the right. The action is legitimate, and if the proper forms were not followed, you can only trust that Karl-Franz had good cause to bypass the Diet and enact such a summary judgement upon his wayward vassal.
 
[x] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.
 
[X] The Emperor has the right. The action is legitimate, and if the proper forms were not followed, you can only trust that Karl-Franz had good cause to bypass the Diet and enact such a summary judgement upon his wayward vassal.
 
[x] The Emperor oversteps.

This being KF he probably has a good reason, but if we were to imagine Dieter in his place...
Yeah, so going with this.
 
[x] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.

i think theirs arguments to be made for markus leaning either way, i just like this one a bit more
 
Adhoc vote count started by LucidProp on Aug 18, 2024 at 5:32 AM, finished with 60 posts and 45 votes.
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After combining the votes, "The Emperor oversteps" is 2 vote ahead of "The Emperor has the right".

For my part, I really do think we should keep with Markus' words from the start of the quest. To believe without proof and to condemn without law is to sin against Sigmar. We shouldn't be so quick to agree with the Emperor without evidence as even in the Empire, you're innocent until proven guilty. It's the principle that makes Markus good at his job, and it's what earned him his promotion to Inquisitor.

He always does his due diligence, otherwise, he would have let the girl be burned at the pyre and killed the Strigany on nothing but the villagers' words.

Now that we have Max trying to sniff out how he should operate under Markus, it's in our best interest to show him that he can't just break legs and get away with it just because he's working for a Witch Hunter. If he thinks working for Markus gives him leeway to bully and rob anyone he pleases, then we need to disabuse him of that notion now by showing that even the highest authority in the Empire can be found wanting in Markus' eyes, and that our retainers which include him will be held to the same standard.
 
[x] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.

We have to judge this action independent of whather Karl-Franz is a "good emperor" or not, because we have no proof whether that is true in this quest.
 
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[X] The Emperor has the right. The action is legitimate, and if the proper forms were not followed, you can only trust that Karl-Franz had good cause to bypass the Diet and enact such a summary judgement upon his wayward vassal.
 
[X] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.
 
[X] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.
 
[X] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.
 
[X] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.

Not because I don't trust him, but because he hasn't even done a trial and we'd be IC in favor of doing all due dilligence.
 
[x] The Emperor oversteps. The Archduke deserves a fair trial under the law, and his peers in the Reikland Diet are entitled to hear the evidence and have their voices heard. To depose a vassal by force of arms absent such processes is nothing more or less than tyranny.
 
CrimsonOddball said:
We're not "basically a 40k inquisitor" for the record
Like this idea that we have the right to act unilaterally without regard for the law is actually completely incorrect
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I was not saying that we are a Inquisitor from 40k but as the very start of this quest showed we do have authority to during the course of our investigations enact justice based on what we know of the situation. Witch Hunters have all kinds of limits on what they can and can't do and Inquisitors when you ignore the memes do to.

Markus has the power to act as the States judge in certain situations but he will have to explain himself if he is asked why he he did something by people higher up in the order. He does not have the Authority to what ever he wants and claim it is part of his duties as a Witch Hunter.
 
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