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The Empty Crusade (Horus Heresy)

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[X]He called for legion support.
He calls for a legion to support the subsector depriving the imperium from their strength in any direct assualt.
-[X] XIV

[X] Evacuate the Leagues

I hate to say it, but the slavers do deserve some protection and if nothing else, this has Roboute keep to his promise that aliens will be protected under the aegis of the Imperium. Better yet, this is a reminder to the other human powers under our influence that we are willing to keep our promises.
 
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SteelWriter77 said:
[X]He called for legion support.
He calls for a legion to support the subsector depriving the imperium from their strength in any direct assualt.
-[X] XIV

I feel like even tho abandoning the Slavers is the most moral option, it might be better to call in one of the Legions who are good at defensive/offensive war
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If the 14th Legion fights here, they leave their patch of space undefended.
I would rather see the death of a slave trader than the return of the 14 to the scorched worlds they left in a stable state.

Plus these xenos are a problem. Problems need to be solved, I would rather have 2 of our problems collide and be left alone than solve them one by one.
 
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Bylba said:
If the 14th Legion fights here, they leave their patch of space undefended.
I would rather see the death of a slave trader than the return of the 14 to the scorched worlds they left in a stable state.

Plus these xenos are a problem. Problems need to be solved, I would rather have 2 of our problems collide and be left alone than solve them one by one.
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Even if we don't intend it to be so, doing that to the only Xeno polity kinda set's the impression of the Xenos being sacrificial shields to our Imperium, and it does not need to be all of the 14th, just enough to keep the Sector from Falling to Orks, i am sure there may be some issues, but there will be more issues if we let the Orks eat that much space.

I am open to a diffrent Legion being called in if you have other ideas
 
Yeah, I would advise people to keep in mind the optics of this situation.

EDIT: It's sort of like this. Tennis gave us the option to allow us to incorporate xenos into this version of the Imperium, which also means that we are required to defend them if they submitted to us in the first place because they are our subjects.

Are they good subjects? No. But they are still part of the Imperium, and unfortunately, the optics of throwing them to the wolves ultimately goes back to the "Homo Sapiens only club," Overall, it looks bad when we incorporate nicer aliens into our empire and they can point out that given any choice, we'd let aliens go die first...even if said aliens that died were complete assholes. The result was that they were still under our protection.

EDIT 2: Another way to look at this, you want to have the cool, friendly, useful xenos? You gotta take the bad ones with you as well. It's same rule with the humans as well. At least until you can somehow remove their leaders and replace them with ones that are more accepting of what we want, but that's for the future.

EDIT 3: @Planetary Tennis I will concede, though that if the option was "of these three, which will you sacrifice," I would also throw the xenos to the wolves. One, because I refuse to let a democratic nation get destroyed, and two, I refuse to let Orks gain access to a Forge World. So I do appreciate that you didn't make the vote something like that and at least gave us the option of "You can always call for Astartes support, but be aware."
 
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Ruirk said:
EDIT 3: @Planetary Tennis I will concede, though that if the option was "of these three, which will you sacrifice," I would also throw the xenos to the wolves. One, because I refuse to let a democratic nation get destroyed, and two, I refuse to let Orks gain access to a Forge World. So I do appreciate that you didn't make the vote something like that and at least gave us the option of "You can always call for Astartes support, but be aware."
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There was some consideration to that, to be fair the invasion would have been which one do you save. However having the IVth on hand means that the Empire has a good defense response group.
 
Can we request a legion with a parameter instead of an ID?

Like request: legion support
-[x] whichever has the best chance of both getting there on time and not getting krumped for being out of position?

Or maybe request aid from any and all legions in the vicinity but smaller bits of multiple legions so the defense drop is less dramatic in any one zone?
 
Ruirk said:
EDIT 2: Another way to look at this, you want to have the cool, friendly, useful xenos? You gotta take the bad ones with you as well. It's same rule with the humans as well. At least until you can somehow remove their leaders and replace them with ones that are more accepting of what we want, but that's for the future.
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No. If there is a choice to go hiking in the mountains alone, or take one smart friend, but with the condition that an idiot will go with you. I choose to go alone. Smart and dumb balance each other out. And yet it turns out that it would be more correct to go alone.

And yes, I do not quite understand how information about our act will reach ordinary civilians. We have a war of survival here. Military censorship? Have you heard anything about it?
 
Unlike the canon imperium This one started the crusade later, and under the direction of Lord Logistics himself, it's still a ruddy nightmare, but it's got a slightly less inadequate logistical web that will carry supplies and information across the whole damned thing. Not to mention that other people do have psykers.
 
w34v3r said:
Unlike the canon imperium This one started the crusade later, and under the direction of Lord Logistics himself, it's still a ruddy nightmare, but it's got a slightly less inadequate logistical web that will carry supplies and information across the whole damned thing. Not to mention that other people do have psykers.
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Plus it just matters what the event looks like to folks, and the barest information is that. "The Sector Leader chose to ignore the only Xeno group in his area" the finer details won't matter to some folks, and someone will have to address it, it would happen with any of the choices of abandonment, each are something a little...tense to have in a Imperium.

And if i have to choose between unrest or a slightly less effective attack on the Orks, i'll choose the latter, we got twenty Legions, we can spare a few of one to defend a Sector under direct assult.
 
[x] He called for legion support.
- [x] XIV

We have to save the totaly not hutts
Also letting the orcs have that space sounds like a bad idea. With what we have been shown of their society we dont know enough about their technologie and slaves. How useful are they for the imperium in term of tech, eco, and pop?
 
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I feel a significant irony in the fact that after all the talk about the abomination of the "No Xenos" policy of the canonical Imperium, we actually came back from where we started. A choice between the deaths of humans and the deaths of xenos.

In any case, distracting the Legions from their attacks in the future may cost us too much. It seems to me more important to sacrifice someone less pleasant than trying to keep everything. And if people here don't choose to donate a weak part among humanity...

[X]He left the Leagues unsupported.
 
SteelWriter77 said:
Plus it just matters what the event looks like to folks, and the barest information is that. "The Sector Leader chose to ignore the only Xeno group in his area" the finer details won't matter to some folks, and someone will have to address it, it would happen with any of the choices of abandonment, each are something a little...tense to have in a Imperium.

And if i have to choose between unrest or a slightly less effective attack on the Orks, i'll choose the latter, we got twenty Legions, we can spare a few of one to defend a Sector under direct assult.
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Ahem.
The scarcest information is "Heavy battles are going on, the empire is suffering losses"
Slightly less scarce information - "The main blow of the orcs fell on the xenos"
Not scarce information at all, taking into account the war and censorship - "Due to the lack of forces and means, as well as due to the unwillingness of the League to allocate additional resources in the fight against the general threat, a sensitive tactical defeat was suffered. The Imperium will make every effort to save the survivors and return as soon as possible lost systems"

Seriously need to explain how to conduct propaganda in a near-totalitarian country?
As a last resort, simply "lose" everyone who can spread an alternative opinion. Or crush the entire information field with messages of gratitude to the Republic and other saved worlds. Arrange such an information storm that some kind of League will be lost in it, like a grain of sand.

Also, do not forget that this situation will not prevent us from joining xenos at the other end of the galaxy, they will not be trite about this
 
Bylba said:
The scarcest information is "Heavy battles are going on, the empire is suffering losses"
Slightly less scarce information - "The main blow of the orcs fell on the xenos"
Not scarce information at all, taking into account the war and censorship - "Due to the lack of forces and means, as well as due to the unwillingness of the League to allocate additional resources in the fight against the general threat, a sensitive tactical defeat was suffered. The Imperium will make every effort to save the survivors and return as soon as possible lost systems"
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I'm sure lying to the people won't backfire in other Sectors with Xeno populations, and not account for other Sector lords and ladys to do the same thing, sacrifice the Xeno's first, using this as an example.

And yes, i know how propaganda works, but it can't catch everything, and we can't silence every voice without devoting a lot of time and effort to that. This sector is currently the priority as it is bearing the brunt of a Large Ork incursion, we can spare a Legion to help defend it, i highly doubt all twenty are going to be needed in their entirety to destroy these Orks, a good number of them yes as Tennis did say this would be the largest group of them pre-Ullanor. But not all Twenty.

Yes the slavers are a problem but letting them die has too many variables to me. And besides your thing about letting other worlds another Legion was protecting die, as they were not there to protect it, is not exactly true, Legions were all over the place doing their things, at this point the ones without Primarchs were either out on the fronts getting new worlds or acting as reserves for if they are needed for these kinds of situations.
 
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SteelWriter77 said:
So our main concern is still political/cultural stuff happening becuse of it.
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Pretty much, which was sort the case here from the start. The United Republics probably contributes the most in manpower and overall political stability in the region, while the tech-priests are the most industrious and technological.

So yes, it's just a question of optics.

EDIT: @Planetary Tennis, I imagine in the event we do throw the Leagues under the bus, the Sigillites are just going to bury the whole thing regardless, but I imagine you are also going to remind people that if the Not-Hutts aren't completed eradicated and either survive or escape, they are going to make certain "accusations."
 
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Hrm, I might have a possible compromise here.

@Planetary Tennis We could throw the League under the bus after we make a big spectacle of aiding in evacuating and resetting their species to another system of their choice. Naturally, we cannot save all of them, but we can easily save key members of their government and civilization and thus the ones that could levy any accusations against us for being a homo sapiens only club.

EDIT: You could even supplement the evacuation by strong-arming elements of the UR and Nalco to come and help with the evacuation (even if they don't need to do the heavy lifting) because it'd be good PR for the two of them and create the illusion that the system is coming together to help each other in a time of need.
 
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Ruirk said:
Hrm, I might have a possible compromise here.

@Planetary Tennis We could throw the League under the bus after we make a big spectacle of aiding in evacuating and resetting their species to another system of their choice. Naturally, we cannot save all of them, but we can easily save key members of their government and civilization and thus the ones that could levy any accusations against us for being a homo sapiens only club.

EDIT: You could even supplement the evacuation by strong-arming elements of the UR and Nalco to come and help with the evacuation (even if they don't need to do the heavy lifting) because it'd be good PR for the two of them and create the illusion that the system is coming together to help each other in a time of need.
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[] Evacuate the Leagues
Focus a small number of forces on pulling out key members and population from the Leagues weakening the defense of the other two major engagements but making it clear that the Leagues are not being abandoned.
 
yeah abandoning the leagues is a big no no because it signals other xeno subjects we will abandon them when push comes to shove
 
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