Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 6:37 PM
The first thing to keep in mind is that Reclaimers are, to a significant degree in almost all of their societies, post-scarcity. Phazing is an extremely powerful tool and one effect is that they can create almost anything from nothing.
Given the time and knowledge, they can conjure resources out of literally nothing.
This has a huge impact on how they value things.
Simply put, the only thing with objective value to them is Life itself. Since everything else can be created or modified varying on need, sapient life is thus the one thing that has objective, absolute value.
Everything else is a matter of time, will, and knowledge and thus, subjective.
This also has an effect on their views of life goals and what not.
Material goods are, simply put, not valuable unless they have an immediate use. So spending time amassing riches is of little use to them. Likewise, Reclaimers are, unless "decayed" heavily, all universally immortal (immortal, not invulnerable).
SilvanEldar-Today at 6:40 PM
Ageless.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 6:40 PM
So the basic pursuits of human life, amassing resources and extending one's life, are not concerns.
yes
So instead... they find worth in life in causes, in leaving their mark upon history.
Simply put... they do not do their duty to get paid.
Doing their duty is the payment to them.
Literally ; they seek purpose, to achieve, to protect and spread the one thing they perceive as having value (Life).
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 6:46 PM
A point to note... agelessness is an important aspect of it, too. Reclaimers cannot merely rely on being part of a cycle of life to give meaning to their lives since they will simply put, live until killed. And they have to live with anything they do.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 6:48 PM
And we come to the concept of Karma, Nihilim, and extreme long-term thinking.
To be fair, part of why Prometheus hate Xenolestia is because she do mistakes her kind did in the far past.
shubzilla-Today at 6:49 PM
Jason's saying they still do them now.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 6:49 PM
She would disagree ; again, Karma, Nihilim, and extreme long-term thinking.
But I need to elaborate on that aspect.
Because just dropping terms means little.
Umbra-Today at 6:50 PM
I sort of want to point out that physical trauma causes mental trauma, and trauma is problematic for a conductive life.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 6:50 PM
That is also linked with technological and magical assumptions. (Dalek's note: Specifically, assumptions regarding how Reclaimers deal with injury and trauma that Prometheus assumes the ponies are in possession of)
Simply put, the concept of Karma is not in terms of "this happens because you deserve it" but in the descriptive way. "This is happening because x". It's, if you will, causality. But on a grander scale and taking into account free will.
I'll give an example...
Fate is what one is usually supposed to do. A prediction. It can be right or it can be wrong.
Karma is that, say, Phil saw that he was destined to kill the dragon and didn't because he didn't agree. So he chose not to.
Simply put, things happen because they're meant to happen.
Greater patterns of reality that happen regardless of free will. Inevitabilities. And other such things.
Such as for example, how they view conflict: War is inevitable on the long-term, as if extinction of individual species. Reality being infinite and time progressing infinitely, the chances of such events occuring is thus 100%.
It will happen, no matter what.
There is also an extreme long-term view ; many Reclaimer clans juggle between their desire to save life and their desire to allow others to live and grow on their own.
For example, while on the short-term and for the next millenia to occur, wars may seem destruction... the species will learn from it. Painful lessons but those must be learnt.
And remember, Reclaimers are ageless: if they screw up by intervening too much (or not enough), they will live to see the consequences.
And thus live to blame themselves/be blamed for their mistake.
There is also the point of Nihilim and how, as a whole, they perceive existence and death.
Reclaimers have the ability to Phaze... which bring forth an alternate ability: Trance. They can perceive the "code" of reality, if you will. See friendship, happiness, pure abstract concepts as if they were numbers or letters writen. They can even perceive people that way ; a 'consciousnesss' with personality, feelings, emotions, their physical appearance, even their very species as mere attached properties.
And that when someone 'dies' it's merely those properties going away and shifting.
Everything change. There is no beginning, no end.
Birth is an illusion. So is death.
Mix all of that together and you get... a very strange view of reality, compared to the usual human mindset.
(Dalek's note: Cutting away the discussion of Nihilism because I don't think it's relevant.)
shubzilla-Today at 7:32 PM
What of the patterns of the dead?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 7:33 PM
The dead form patterns that are no longer life. But through their actions, they form up patterns known as history. Likewise, they may, in time, form new patterns. Some of those patterns may be new life.
It also vary on setting physics.
For example, some worlds include after-life mechanics, where only the part that made up the body is left behind and the pattern continue on within the new parameters.
NOTE: Nihilim is the name that they give to the 'void'/non-existence and the basic canvas upon which all things are 'writen'.
I also hope to touch upon their views on individuals and what not.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 7:44 PM
On Reclaimers, a major part is that they seek to preserve Life and are capable of perceiving existence in its abstract, core componements. This lead them to their religion and in general the way their society and culture tend to be structured.
Generally, Reclaimers live networked together, forming hiveminds known as Gestalt Minds. Those are 'true' hiveminds, formed from the combined personalities, emotions, and general traits of all its componements.
In an effort to understand other species but also because of concerns (and attachement to their own lives), they retain individual identities and lives.
In fact, most Clans purposefully have individuals to discourage their command units from ordering grunts to pointless death and to give said grunts a desire to not die.
It's also designed to make it easier for them to understand individualistic species and be understood by them.
It must be noted that Reclaimers are very aware their life style is an inherently dangerous one. And that sometimes, death can not be avoided. So the presence of the Gestalt Mind and the Clan as a whole is reassuring to them. Since it means that who they were will be preserved and that if they do die, someone will carry on for them regardless of if what they were is lost. By extension... Reclaimers absolutely despise being alone.
When they are alone, Reclaimers become extremely insecure and desesperate to form a substitute group, either by reproducing (cloning, engineering) or by joining an existing group they can identify with.
Prometheus-552 S3-Y0 joining the Steel Company so quickly and actually projecting into it is actually partly due to that instinct.
(upon arrival on Earth and realizing that reinforcements were not coming, she, for a lack of a better word, freaked out.)
(pause for comments/questions so far)
shubzilla-Today at 7:54 PM
Go on
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 7:55 PM
The way their society is built is that they unite their minds to form the Gestalt Mind. Then, the Gestalt Mind, which has a general view of the skills and desires of every individual that make it up, will assign tasks to the units in the Clan.
However, as individuals develop skills/change over time, roles may be altered to match necessity and/or the desires of individuals.
Likewise, if an individual's results turn out not to pan out in pratice or turn out to be have potential that could be visible just from statistics, spots will open/close to match.
Generally, their government is tiered in two branches: Strategic Command, which is dedicated to long-term planning, policies, and general large scale decisions and Tactical Command, which is tasked with making those policies come to fruition and generally make "the trains run on time".
An interesting point about Reclaimers and generally their view of authority...
Due to being ageless and the extreme risks and needs of their duties, there is no such thing as a 'true civilian' among Reclaimers. Everyone is called to fight when they face Outsiders and general threats... and this include the Command Units.
Often, Command Units will be those units that survived an incredibly long time and thus, gained in-depth knowledge of how the universe works, tactics, how to make a society work out of and during war time, and generally knowledge of all types. They generally aware that they are their own most important & competent 'piece' during operations and are thus expected to lead vital missions themselves.
The Gestalt Mind system means that if they do die, they can be replaced instantly and have their successor even know the exact mentality that led them to do their decisions and continue the plan seamlessly.
Reclaimers tend to have a very acute disdain of "armchair generals".
As for how this lead to Prometheus-552 S3-Y0...
Well, to her, Miriam and Xenolestia both taking on the field personally wasn't odd. To her, it was the norm.
(pause for questions/comments)
SilvanEldar-Today at 8:07 PM
Please explain Reclaimer's view on the reincarnation of souls.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:08 PM
Simply put, on reincarnation... They consider that everyone is technically immortal, truly so. However, that is only the core self. And that core self is unrelated to personality, memories, emotions, or what not.
Simply put, one's current existence is a pattern of a 'self', personality data, species data, emotional data, memory data, and what not.
See it as actors taking on different roles.
Xellos-Today at 8:09 PM
Then what is the "core self" related to?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:09 PM
Technically, everyone of these patterns is a new person, if not an entirely different life, unrelated to the past.
It's the "self-awareness" property, if you will. The absolute, most abstract core of the sapient mind.
This core is a pure property/element and thus, exist regardless of if supernatural souls exist or not.
It is not a soul/spirit in the way that normal religions envision.
(since a being who 'move on' leave everything behind. Down to personality, all memories, all emotions, and what not.)
What happens to this 'core' vary on the Clan's beliefs and knowledge regarding Nihilim and the greater cycle of reality.
Some believe that spark simply disappear. Or that it rebecome non-existent, waiting to exist again. Others think it immediately go elsewhere. Others consider its existence or non-existence irrelevent due to infinite nature of reality, meaning that the chances of it being "alive" somewhere, sometime is 100%. It varies, again.
Yet others believe that the Sleeper safeguard the spark and recreate the pattern in other universes. Or that the Avatar of Death cultivate timelines in which ended sapient lives continue on for purposes either mysterious or known.
Of course, this is given that universe has no after-life mechanic.
(any questions/comments?)
shubzilla-Today at 8:19 PM
So Reclaimers have different beliefs regarding non-Reclaimers?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:20 PM
Not really. Personality, emotions, memories, body traits including species are all properties of the patterns known as Life.
Reclaimers have their mission and a species-wide ability to perceive this "code" but otherwise, it would be arrogant that any specialness of theirs is due to birth rights.
If anything, they tend to be thrilled when they find species who are also capable of perceiving the abstract like they can.
Even if in an incomplete form.
SilvanEldar-Today at 8:24 PM
And they operate in a multiverse, where-in theses universe may or may not have different metaphysical structures?
shubzilla-Today at 8:24 PM
"perceiving the abstract" What is that?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:24 PM
By that, I mean that they can see the "code" of Nihilim.
And yes.
(on different metaphysical structures.)
So... moving on?
(or more questions about this part?)
shubzilla-Today at 8:30 PM
So everything living is a variant on a single thing called Life?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:30 PM
Technically, it is a common pattern. And even then, one may define it in different ways.
Some have more properties. Or less.
Or have them in different shapes.
If you will, Life is a classification for a type of pattern in reality.
(make sense?)
shubzilla-Today at 8:33 PM
The only pattern of value because of its innate meaning?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:35 PM
More than that. If reality has a particular meaning, it is Life itself. Its existence, it spawning an infinity of different patterns, the choices it can make (or not make). The perpetual continuation of existence, both in the 'before' and the 'after'.
SilvanEldar-Today at 8:37 PM
So, life in general holds value, but do individuals?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:37 PM
Of course. Every individual's life is important, no matter how brief.
After all,every life is part of history/Karma and has an impact, no matter how small.
Even if that contribution was "it was present".
Or even if that contribution was "Others spoke of it potentially existing".
Every life is itself part of the greater pattern that is existence.
SilvanEldar-Today at 8:41 PM
So does the experience that life has versus what it could've had matter? Does fulfillment or suffering matter, or is it merely existence?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:44 PM
Technically, on the greater scale of things, it is better to minimize suffering. After all, while everything is subjective, suffering is after all associated with the end of the patterns that are Life and with them being diminshed, which should be avoided if possible.
Ultimately, due to the nature of an infinite reality and the inevitability of conflict, it cannot be absolutely avoided.
But the greatest insult you can give Death is to willingly and passively go to one's end.
SilvanEldar-Today at 8:46 PM
So, it is desirable then to strive against the inevitable?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 8:48 PM
Definitely.
In fact, in the Reclaimers' home multiverse, the Avatar of Death crafted the concept of Death for a reason.
That reason being to make the existence of Life possible by creating a rule that made it possible for logic to be a thing.
(The One Rule of Logic that is true in all universes where they come from is the following: -if you are alive, you exist. -if you don't exist, you are not alive.)
SilvanEldar-Today at 8:58 PM
So, something that is inevitable need not be desirable, and what is desirable need not be inevitable. We've also established that even if a goal is unachievable, there is still virtue in seeking to attain it in spite of that fact. Finally, we've established that suffering is, in fact, undesirable. So, does this not mean that certain behaviors which induce suffering should be avoided, even if it lessens the efficiency of your other actions?(edited)
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:01 PM
Yes. But on the long-term, it may be better to do some things if they may help with later actions.
Also, you must keep in mind three things...
1-Prometheus-552 S3-Y0, when she first arrived, had a very different view of the enemy.
Her Clan had visions of the Nightmare and what it did... but zero context.
So they assumed that this was truly TCB Celestia's doing and that the visions meant that the ponies were essentially a horde of sapients who completely gave up on empathy if not individuality in order to dedicate themselves to a mission to destroy anything that isn't them.
Prometheus-552 S3-Y0 expected her foes to be insane Cerberus-like psychos bent on assimilation because other life offend them, not brainwashed victims.
2-she assumed that thanks to magic, recovery of the body and mind with few to no scars would be easy.
Her kind is capable of essentially reviving and restoring an individual that has been reduced to a half-melted, lifeless husk of debris, so long as enough of the brain matrix and/or the back-up systems are intact.
Given the potency of healing magic in many settings and the seeming magical mastery that such things as the Barrier and Potion imply, she assumed incorrectly that the ponies can easily undo injuries that would be considered crippling if not life-ending for humans.
Dalek Ix-Today at 9:06 PM
What about the mental aspect of being injured?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:07 PM
Her kind can "re-synchronize" units that have been traumatized, if not had parts of their original personality overwriten. They can store, rewrite, and recollect stored memories.
Given the amount of personality rewriting that goes into the Potion, she assumed that healing the mind would be something easy for the ponies as well.
Dalek Ix-Today at 9:10 PM
Another question: All that considered, what is Prometheus' main moral reason for opposing Xelestia? (for the benefit of the peanut gallery.)
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:11 PM
Prometheus-552 S3-Y0's main moral issue is that Xenolestia is essentially acting as a "homogenizing swarm"-type omnicidal threat. Destroying all diversity and annihilating species on a level so complete as to not leave even their history behind.
But she have a secondary concern...
Xenolestia leave Medieval Stasis "perfect" peaceful utopias behind.
Remember: her kind think extreme long-term. And I mean,EXTREMEEEEEEE LONG-TERM.
So she look at all those "utopias" that doesn't change... and at the fact that over the course of eternity, the chance that something like Mass Effect Reapers or the Doom Demons will show up is 100%.
Cyreni-Today at 9:13 PM
Does the current town that Prometheus's double is in dispel that notion of medieval stasis at all?
Or the Canterlot Laboratories she was dragged through?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:14 PM
Every "converted" world is, for now, an utopia. One born of negative, unnacceptable Karma. And one, that once the true evils of the multiverse reach it, will become a mass grave.
Cyreni-Today at 9:14 PM
Or the existence of Sunlit Dawn, the cyberpegasus?
Dalek Ix-Today at 9:14 PM
So, in essence, the moral reasoning she's working from is completely different from that of the rest of the company?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:14 PM
yes
Dalek Ix-Today at 9:14 PM
When regards to opposing Xelly.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:15 PM
Basically, it's not the war itself that bother her.
Hell, it's not even that someone is winning or not.
Dalek Ix-Today at 9:15 PM
It's what could come after the war that's worrying.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:15 PM
It's what Xenolestia is doing to the cosmic diversity and the fact that she is essentially creating a giant vulnerability and window that the Things You Don't Want To Meet will gladly jump upon.
Yes
It's also part of why she did such a 180 regarding her attitude.
Cyreni-Today at 9:16 PM
Does the existence of the Canterlot Laboratories change that opinion any?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:16 PM
As said in a private conversation with Cyreni...
Differnelty.
Cyreni-Today at 9:16 PM
On the technological progression?
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:16 PM
*differently
Simply put, as she said, the chances that Xenolestia will someday run into something she can't beat are 100%, on a macro scale.
But once she's gone...
Once all that mind control is gone...
Now we will have billions, trillions of ponies who lost all they held dear for some Nightmare's act of self-gratification.
Cyreni-Today at 9:17 PM
Because there's a huge gap between medieval stasis and, "Look at me. I'm on a cyberhorse."
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:18 PM
As she pointed out, it's not even the retribution of humanity that ponykind will have to fear, if humanity survive that long.
Once the mind-control goes away, once what the "utopia" is really built on collapse...
Well.
Myuu - Prometheus-552 S3-Y0-Today at 9:18 PM
The pony worlds will see what is essentially their great Age of Strife 2.0
Except now accross multiple worlds.
We're talking inter-planetary civil wars so bad they literally spawn demons made of hate.
It will make the entire Conversion Wars look like a civilized conflict.(edited)
