Star Wars Legends Source and Feats thread

Index/Intro

Mustapha Mond

World Controller, Western Europe
The General Feats thread for the Star Wars Legends universe. Try to keep your posts to single feats or narrow topics, as I'll be compiling an index later on. I'll also try to put together some character and vehicle bios that link to several feats. Scans and some sort of discussion/calculation are always preferable.

Character Feats

Institutional Feats
 
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I've got a single feat on a narrow topic:

Lando, and Luke, can make good hot chocolate. (Heir to the Empire, other books)
 
I don't have the books on me, but there's direct references to Luke learning to make a hot chocolate from Lando, and then later making one for Mara Jade that she quite liked.
Hang on, I have copies of the Trilogy. Let me see if I can find it.

For the index, I suppose this would go under "skills".
 
Precognition, Kreia
KOTOR II: The Sith Lords: Under the right conditions, you can see thousands into the future. And still see the immediate future into years ahead:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzaQh8geL1Q&ab_channel=PapitoQinn

Yeah, I had to post Kreia talking. She might have been a Sith, but Lords of Kobol! That voice! That voice ... I'd love for her voice actor to narrate an audio book or too, enough to actually buy an audio book.
 
Palpatine's power after killing Darth Plagueis
We might as well start at the top, and work our way down. Here's Palpatine's power after he defeats Darth Palgueis. I'll be using some of the analysis from the following post.


A tremor took hold of the planet.

Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world's core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake's epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn't constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.

A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.

Slowly, almost reluctantly, he came back to himself, his gaze settling on his manicured hands. Returned to the present, he took note of his rapid breathing, while behind him the room labored to restore order. Air scrubbers hummed—costly wall tapestries undulating in the summoned breeze. Prized carpets sealed their fibers against the spread of spilled fluids. The droid shuffled in obvious confliction. Sidious pivoted to take in the disarray: antique furniture overturned; framed artwork askew. As if a whirlwind had swept through. And facedown on the floor lay a statue of Yanjon, one of four law-giving sages of Dwartii.

A piece Sidious had secretly coveted.

Also sprawled there, Plagueis: his slender limbs splayed and elongated head turned to one side. Dressed in finery, as for a night on the town.

And now dead.

Or was he?

Uncertainty rippled through Sidious, rage returning to his eyes. A tremor of his own making, or one of forewarning?

Was it possible that the wily Muun had deceived him? Had Plagueis unlocked the key to immortality, and survived after all? Never mind that it would constitute a petty move for one so wise—for one who had professed to place the Grand Plan above all else. Had Plagueis become ensnared in a self-spun web of jealousy and possessiveness, victim of his own engineering, his own foibles?

If he hadn't been concerned for his own safety, Sidious might have pitied him.

Wary of approaching the corpse of his former Master, he called on the Force to roll the aged Muun over onto his back. From that angle Plagueis looked almost as he had when Sidious first met him, decades earlier: smooth, hairless cranium; humped nose, with its bridge flattened as if from a shock-ball blow and its sharp tip pressed almost to his upper lip; jutting lower jaw; sunken eyes still brimming with menace—a physical characteristic rarely encountered in a Muun. But then Plagueis had never been an ordinary Muun, nor an ordinary being of any sort.

Sidious took care, still reaching out with the Force. On closer inspection, he saw that Plagueis's already cyanotic flesh was smoothing out, his features relaxing.

Faintly aware of the whir of air scrubbers and sounds of the outside world infiltrating the luxurious suite, he continued the vigil; then, in relief, he pulled himself up to his full height and let out his breath. This was no Sith trick. Not an instance of feigning death, but one of succumbing to its cold embrace. The being who had guided him to power was gone.

Wry amusement narrowed his eyes.

The Muun might have lived another hundred years unchanged. He might have lived forever had he succeeded fully in his quest. But in the end—though he could save others from death—he had failed to save himself.

A sense of supreme accomplishment puffed Sidious's chest, and his thoughts unreeled.

Well, then, that wasn't nearly as bad as we thought it might be …

Rarely did events play out as imagined, in any case. The order of future events was transient. In the same way that the past was reconfigured by selective memory, future events, too, were moving targets. One could only act on instinct, grab hold of an intuited perfect moment, and spring into action. One heartbeat late and the universe would have recomposed itself, no imposition of will sufficient to forestall the currents. One could only observe and react. Surprise was the element absent from any periodic table. A keystone element; a missing ingredient. The means by which the Force amused itself. A reminder to all sentient beings that some secrets could never be unlocked.

Confident that the will of the dark side had been done, he returned to the suite's window wall.

Two beings in a galaxy of countless trillions, but what had transpired in the suite would affect the lives of all of them. Already the galaxy had been shaped by the birth of one, and henceforth would be reshaped by the death of the other. But had the change been felt and recognized elsewhere? Were his sworn enemies aware that the Force had shifted irrevocably? Would it be enough to rouse them from self-righteousness? He hoped not. For now the work of vengeance could begin in earnest.

His eyes sought and found an ascending constellation of stars, one of power and consequence new to the sky, though soon to be overwhelmed by dawn's first light. Low in the sky over the flatlands, visible only to those who knew where and how to look, it ushered in a bold future. To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments. In his mouth, Sidious tasted the tang of blood; in his chest, he felt the monster rising, emerging from shadowy depths and contorting his aspect into something fearsome just short of revealing itself to the world.

The dark side had made him its property, and now he made the dark side his.

Breathless, not from exertion but from the sudden inspiration of power, he let go of the sill and allowed the monster to writhe through his body like an unbroken beast of range or prairie.

Had the Force ever been so strong in anyone?

Sidious had never learned how Plagueis's own Master had met his end. Had he died at Plagueis's hand? Had Plagueis, too, experienced a similar exultation on becoming a sole Sith Lord? Had the beast of the end time risen then to peek at the world it was to inhabit, knowing its release was imminent?

He raised his gaze to the ecliptic. The answers were out there, coded in light, speeding through space and time. Liquid fire coursing through him, visions of past and future riffling through his mind, he opened himself to the reconfigured galaxy, as if in an effort to peel away the decades …

---Darth Plagueis

Analysis:

So, there's a lot to consider and analyze there, so I think we need to highlight the most important quotes. The book's prologue describes the immediate aftermatch of Sheev Palpatine's assassination of his master Darth Plagueis, and the consequences of his ascension into Darth Sidious.

A tremor took hold of the planet.

Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world's core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake's epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return.

As Plagueis is slain, a Force-tremor takes hold of the planet they were in, shaking it to the core and simultaneously radiating through the atmosphere to eventually reach and "shake the stars themselves". This is explicitly noted to be the result of Sidious' newfound power.

Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.

Sidious opens his eyes and gazes onto the night-sky, and he sees "trembling stars flare", knowing that his is anointed by the power of the Dark Side. This is the direct result of the previous tremor in the Force. Stars shook and "flared" (Either released Solar Flares or outright exploded) as a result of Sidious' power.

Rarely did events play out as imagined, in any case. The order of future events was transient. In the same way that the past was reconfigured by selective memory, future events, too, were moving targets. One could only act on instinct, grab hold of an intuited perfect moment, and spring into action. One heartbeat late and the universe would have recomposed itself, no imposition of will sufficient to forestall the currents.

The Past and Future are explained to be transient things that can be reconfigured by one's actions, with the universe itself "recomposing itself" by the result of certain events.

Two beings in a galaxy of countless trillions, but what had transpired in the suite would affect the lives of all of them. Already the galaxy had been shaped by the birth of one, and henceforth would be reshaped by the death of the other. But had the change been felt and recognized elsewhere? Were his sworn enemies aware that the Force had shifted irrevocably? Would it be enough to rouse them from self-righteousness?

Darth Sidious' assassination of his master affects the entire galaxy, causing the Force itself to shift irrevocably out of balance across space. Sidious ponders if his enemies will have felt this great disturbance in the galaxy. This is particularly notable as earlier in the book unbalancing the force in this way required the combined efforts of Plagueis and Sidious working for weeks on end. (I will insert a link to this feat when I post it.) This shows that Sidious is now stronger than both Plagueis and his previous self combined.

His eyes sought and found an ascending constellation of stars, one of power and consequence new to the sky, though soon to be overwhelmed by dawn's first light. Low in the sky over the flatlands, visible only to those who knew where and how to look, it ushered in a bold future. To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments.

The most revealing statement, in my opinion. Sidious raises his eyes to the stars and finds an ascending constellation, which people would believe would be moving in accordance to their alignment and orbit, but in fact is aligning in a completely new way due to Sidious' actions. "To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments." The comment about only some being able to see the new constellation implies that Sidious "saw" it with his ESP, which makes sense considering that light-lag would make any such celestial modifications unable to be seen at a distance for tens of thousands of years. It also implies that this new constellation is hidden from other force-users such as the Jedi, which is consistent with Palpatine's abilities. (Relevant feats to be posted.)

Had the Force ever been so strong in anyone?

This new, immense surge of Dark Power flowing through Sidious causes him to question himself if anyone has ever been so powerful with the Force.

In conclusion, after killing his master, Palpatine's power becomes so great it cause the stars to shake and flare and form new constellations, which is consistent with the other solar system level feats Palpatine scales to [1][2].
 
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Dominate Mind, Jorus C'baoth's clone
An example of Jorus C'baoth's clone using Dominate Mind.

He [C'baoth] raised his hands above his head, an eerie blue-white coronal sheen playing about them. Pellaeon cringed despite himself, remembering the lightning bolts C'baoth had thrown at them in the crypt on Wayland. But no lightning came. C'baoth simply stood there, his hands clutching at empty air, his eyes gazing toward infinity. Pellaeon frowned at him ... and he was just considering asking C'baoth what he was talking about when he happened to glance down into the portside crew pit.

The crewers were sitting stiffly in their chairs, their backs parade-ground straight, their hands folded in their laps, their eyes staring blankly through their consoles. Behind them, the officers were equally stiff, equally motionless, equally oblivious. The starboard crew pit was the same as was the aft bridge. And on the consoles Pellaeon could see, which should have been active with incoming reports from other sectors of the ship, the displays had all gone static.

It was the moment Pellaeon had expected and dreaded since the first visit to Wayland. C'baoth had taken command of the Chimaera.

"Impressive," Thrawn said into the brittle silence. "Very impressive indeed. And what do you propose to do now?"

"Need I repeat myself?" C'baoth said, his voice trembling slightly with obvious strain. "I will take this ship to Coruscant. To take my Jedi, not to destroy them."

"It's a minimum of five days to Coruscant from here," Thrawn said coldly. "Five days during which you'll have to maintain your control of the Chimaera's thirty-seven thousand crewers. Longer, of course, if you intend for them to actually fight at the end of that voyage. And if you intend for us to arrive with any support craft, that figure of thirty-seven thousand will increase rather steeply."

C'baoth snorted contemptuously. "You doubt the power of the Force, Grand Admiral Thrawn?"

"Not at all," Thrawn said. "I merely present the problems you and the Force will have to solve if you continue with this course of action. For instance, do you know where the Coruscant sector fleet is based, or the number and types of ships making it up? Have you thought about how you will neutralize Coruscant's orbital battle stations and ground-based systems? Do you know who is in command of the planet's defenses at present, and how he or she is likely to deploy the available forces? Have you considered Coruscant's energy field? Do you know how best to use the strategic and tactical capabilities of an Imperial Star Destroyer?"

"You seek to confuse me," C'baoth accused. "Your men--my men--know the answers to all those questions."

"To some of them, yes," Thrawn said. "But you cannot learn the answers. Not all of them. Certainly not quickly enough."

"I control the Force," C'baoth repeated angrily. But to Pellaeon's ear there was a hint of pleading in the tone. Like a child throwing a tantrum that he didn't really expect to get him anywhere...

"No." Thrawn said, his voice abruptly soothing. Perhaps he, too, had picked up on C'baoth's tone. "The galaxy is not yet ready for you to lead, Master C'baoth. Later, when your order has been restored, I will present it to you to govern as you please. But that time is not yet."

For a long moment C'baoth remained motionless, his mouth working, half invisibly behind his flowing beard. Then, almost reluctantly, he lowered his arms; and as he did so, the bridge was filled with muffled gasps and groans and the scraping of boots on steel decking as the crewers were released from the Jedi Master's control. "You will never present the Empire to me," C'baoth told Thrawn. "Not of your own will."

...

"Signal the Relentless, Captain," Thrawn ordered him [Pellaeon], swiveling back around again. "Tell Captain Dorja I need a five-hundred-man caretaker crew for the next six hours."

Pellaeon looked down into the portside crew pit. Here and there one could see a crewer sitting properly at his station or an officer standing more or less vertically. But for the most part the crewers were collapsed limply in their seats, their officers leaning against walls and consoles or lying trembling on the deck. "Yes, sir," he said, stepping back to his chair and keying for comm.

---The Last Command

Analysis

Not much to go over here, but a few points warrant attention.

The crewers were sitting stiffly in their chairs, their backs parade-ground straight, their hands folded in their laps, their eyes staring blankly through their consoles. Behind them, the officers were equally stiff, equally motionless, equally oblivious. The starboard crew pit was the same as was the aft bridge.

C'baoth has completely dominated them, turning them into his puppets.

And on the consoles Pellaeon could see, which should have been active with incoming reports from other sectors of the ship, the displays had all gone static.

I believe the static is meant to show he's taken over all the rest of the crew as well, but I don't know why the rest of the ship not doing anything would lead to the displays showing static. It's possible C'baoth was also using Mechu-deru to control the ship's computers, or maybe the author just didn't have a good grasp of how computers should work.

"Need I repeat myself?" C'baoth said, his voice trembling slightly with obvious strain. "I will take this ship to Coruscant. To take my Jedi, not to destroy them."

C'baoth seems to be straining a bit to do this, which is a little strange considering he has done similar feats on a planetary scale for years. It's likely though he simply isn't used to the minds aboard the ship yet, and would become more comfortable controlling them over an extended period.

"It's a minimum of five days to Coruscant from here," Thrawn said coldly. "Five days during which you'll have to maintain your control of the Chimaera's thirty-seven thousand crewers. Longer, of course, if you intend for them to actually fight at the end of that voyage. And if you intend for us to arrive with any support craft, that figure of thirty-seven thousand will increase rather steeply."

C'baoth snorted contemptuously. "You doubt the power of the Force, Grand Admiral Thrawn?"

C'baoth is dominating the minds of thirty-seven thousand people perfectly. An assault on Coruscant, even in its current state, could easily take hundreds or thousands of Star Destroyers to accomplish, and C'baoth still believes he could control them all.

"You seek to confuse me," C'baoth accused. "Your men--my men--know the answers to all those questions."

C'baoth appears to believe he can use Drain Knowledge to gain all the information he needs while still keeping the crew in usable shape.

For a long moment C'baoth remained motionless, his mouth working, half invisibly behind his flowing beard. Then, almost reluctantly, he lowered his arms; and as he did so, the bridge was filled with muffled gasps and groans and the scraping of boots on steel decking as the crewers were released from the Jedi Master's control. "You will never present the Empire to me," C'baoth told Thrawn. "Not of your own will."

...

"Signal the Relentless, Captain," Thrawn ordered him [Pellaeon], swiveling back around again. "Tell Captain Dorja I need a five-hundred-man caretaker crew for the next six hours."

Pellaeon looked down into the portside crew pit. Here and there one could see a crewer sitting properly at his station or an officer standing more or less vertically. But for the most part the crewers were collapsed limply in their seats, their officers leaning against walls and consoles or lying trembling on the deck. "Yes, sir," he said, stepping back to his chair and keying for comm.


These quotes showcase the mental strain C'baoth was placing the crew under.
 
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Aleema Keto Destroys a Star System
Using the power of a Sith crystal array, Aleema Keto rips out the core of a star and hurls it faster than light.


















---Tales of the Jedi - The Sith War 4

Unfortunately this feat is FTL, so we can't calculate it, but the resulting chain of supernovas lets us give it a solid, generic Solar System level.
 
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Brakiss Manipulates Starfire
Dark Jedi Brakiss demonstrates his ability to control starfire.



Gazing at the stormy suns, Brakiss raised his arms to each side, spreading his fingers. His silvery robe flowed around him as if knit from silken spiderwebs. He stared into the swirling flares of the Denarii Nova. "Observe Zekk-and learn."

Closing his eyes, the Master of the Shadow Academy began to move his hands. Zekk watched through the observation port, his green eyes widening.

The ocean of rarefied incandescent gases between the dying stars started to swirl like arms of fire... writhing, changing shape, dancing in time with the hand motions Brakiss made. The dark teacher was manipulating the starfire itself!

He whispered to Zekk without opening his eyes, without observing the effect of his work. "The Force is in all things," Brakiss said, "from the smallest pebble to the largest star. This is just a glimmer of how Naga Sadow reached out to the stars and delivered a mortal wound five thousand years ago."

"Could you make the sun explode?" Zekk asked in awe.

Brakiss opened his eyes and looked at his young student. His smooth perfect forehead creased. "I don't know," he said. "And I don't believe I ever want to try."

---Young Jedi Knights: Lightsabers

Nothing much to say here, but the specific call-back to Naga Sadow, and Brakiss' own uncertainty, seems to imply that Naga Sadow's feats could be replicated without the aids he employed.
 
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Force Ability Classifications
Some general info on the way Force Abilities are classified, as taken from The Jedi Path and The Book of the Sith.

Jedi typically divide Force Abilities into three categories.




As Jedi initiates, you will learn and hone many abilities that draw upon the Force. These abilities follow three themes: Control, Sense, and Alter. Control is centered on one's own body and is the focus of training for Initiates. If you cannot remain in control of yourself, you will never be able to extend the Force and command your surrounding environment. Sense and Alter abilities will be the focus of your training later, when you are more skilled.

The abilities that fall under the discipline of Control are basic skills, but improvement on these skills is necessary for the remainder of your life. Use properly, your Control abilities will allow you to survive injury and decay, extending your service to the Order by decades.

---The Jedi Path

Essentially, Control abilities allow for control of your own body.


Sense is a natural broadening of the principles of Control. As you extend your reach beyond yourself to your environment, be prepared to gain a deeper, cosmic awareness as the Living Force reveals itself to you. Some of you have been training in these exercises for years, but as Padawans you should experience a breakthrough moment when everything becomes as natural as using your eyes to see or your ears to hear.

---The Jedi Path

Pretty straight forward, it's ESP and sensory enhancement stuff.


As a youngling you learned Control; as a Padawan you studied Sense; and now as a Knight your education in the Force will continue in the discipline of Alter. These abilities, which use the Force to physically impact surrounding environment, are the most difficult to master. But without Alter, you are like a mud limpet--perceiving your world but incapable of touching it. With Alter, you will grow arms and Legs. Learn these skills, practice them daily, and you will deepen your aptitude for Alter throughout your career.

---The Jedi Path

Alter abilities let you affect the world around you, and include things like telekinesis.

The Sith also divide abilities into three categories, but theirs are a bit different.



There are three schools, or focuses, of Force combat that channel the dark side: Offense, Body, and Mind. Study all three, learn which to apply during the fury of the fight, and pass on what you have learned to your apprentice. None of this is to be kept for your own benefit. Remember, the Sith Order is more important than one Sith Lord.

Offense encompasses the Force skills with immediate, dynamic applications for lightsaber combat. All require relatively little exertion, so they can be easily applied at any moment. Think of Offense as a dagger saved in reserve for a fatal thrust.

Offense powers are ones used quickly and dynamically in combat.


The second school, or focus, Body, encompasses those abilities that draw from the living Force. They emanate from your own cells and affect the physical structures of others. For this reason, any cyborg limb or enhancement will hinder your ability to conjure the effects of Body. This is not your failing; it is a law of the living Force. The demands of the dark side can ravage the flesh, but fortunately it is possible to balance the scales by siphoning life from another to bolster your own.

Body techniques draw power from the Living Force, which begins at your body and ends at your enemy's


The third school, or focus, Mind, encompasses those abilities that draw from the unifying Force. These operate on a different plane than the physical--they exist in the realm of thought and memory.

The disciplines of Mind require intense concentration and are mentally taxing. Physical strength will not help you here, only psychic clarity.

Mind powers are mental attacks. They are quite difficult.
 
Dominate Mind, Palpatine I part I
In Heir to the Empire Thrawn reveals the key weakness that lead to the Empire's defeat.

Thrawn smiled back. "It is indeed. Tell me, master C'baoth: are you familiar with the Imperial Fleet's disastrous defeat at the Battle of Endor five years ago?"

"I've heard rumors. One of the offworlders who came here spoke about it." C'baoth's gaze drifted to the window, to the palace/crypt visible across the square. "Though only briefly."

Pellaeon swallowed. Thrawn himself didn't seem to notice the implication. "Then you must have wondered how a few dozen Rebel ships could possibly rout an Imperial force that outgunned it by at least ten to one."

"I didn't spend much time with such wonderings," C'baoth said dryly. "I assumed that the Rebels were simply better warriors."

"In a sense, that's true," Thrawn agreed. "The Rebels did indeed fight better, but not because of any special abilities or training. They fought better than the Fleet because the Emperor was dead."

He turned to look at Pellaeon. "You were there, Captain--you must have noticed it. The sudden loss of coordination between crew members and ships; the loss of efficiency and discipline. The loss, in short, of that elusive quality we call fighting spirit."

"There was some confusion, yes," Pellaeon said stiffly. He was starting to see where Thrawn was going with this, and he didn't like it a bit. "But nothing that can't be explained by the normal stresses of battle."

One blue-black eyebrow went up, just slightly. "Really? The loss of the Executor--the sudden, last-minute TIE fighter incompetence that brought about the destruction of the Death Star itself--the loss of the six other Star Destroyers in engagements that none of them should have had trouble with? All of that nothing but normal battle stress?"

"The Emperor was not directing the battle," Pellaeon snapped with a fire that startled him. "Not in any way. I was there, Admiral--I know."

"Yes, Captain, you were there," Thrawn said, his voice abruptly hard. "And it's time you gave up the blindfold and faced the truth, no matter how bitter you find it. You had no real fighting spirit of your own anymore--none of you in the Imperial Fleet did. It was the Emperor's will that drove you; the Emperor's mind that provided you with strength and resolve and efficiency. You were as dependent on that presence as if you were all borg-implanted into a combat computer."

"That's not true," Pellaeon shot back, stomach twisting painfully within him. "It can't be. We fought on after his death."

"Yes," Thrawn said, his voice quiet and contemptuous. "You fought on. Like cadets."

C'baoth snorted. "So is this what you want me for, Grand Admiral Thrawn?" he asked scornfully. "To turn your ships into puppets for you?"

"Not at all Master C'baoth," Thrawn told him, his voice perfectly calm again. "My analogy with combat borg implants was a carefully considered one. The Emperor's fatal error was in seeking to control the entire Imperial Fleet personally, as completely and constantly as possible. That, over the long run, is what did the damage. My wish is merely to have you enhance the coordination between ships and task forces--and then only at critical times and in carefully selected combat situations."

Analysis

"Yes, Captain, you were there," Thrawn said, his voice abruptly hard. "And it's time you gave up the blindfold and faced the truth, no matter how bitter you find it. You had no real fighting spirit of your own anymore--none of you in the Imperial Fleet did. It was the Emperor's will that drove you; the Emperor's mind that provided you with strength and resolve and efficiency. You were as dependent on that presence as if you were all borg-implanted into a combat computer."

It's revealed that the Emperor was controlling the Imperial fleet so constantly that it lead them to develop an unhealthy dependency on him. They lost all their own fighting spirit, and had only his to sustain them. This would require the Emperor to have been manipulating the entire Imperial fleet at the very least any time they entered combat. That's control of trillions of individuals [1] on a galactic scale near constantly. A seriously impressive feat, made more impressive by the fact the people being controlled had no apprehension of it.

"Not at all Master C'baoth," Thrawn told him, his voice perfectly calm again. "My analogy with combat borg implants was a carefully considered one. The Emperor's fatal error was in seeking to control the entire Imperial Fleet personally, as completely and constantly as possible. That, over the long run, is what did the damage.

This quote confirms that the control was of the entire fleet and near constant.

He turned to look at Pellaeon. "You were there, Captain--you must have noticed it. The sudden loss of coordination between crew members and ships; the loss of efficiency and discipline. The loss, in short, of that elusive quality we call fighting spirit."

"There was some confusion, yes," Pellaeon said stiffly. He was starting to see where Thrawn was going with this, and he didn't like it a bit. "But nothing that can't be explained by the normal stresses of battle."

One blue-black eyebrow went up, just slightly. "Really? The loss of the Executor--the sudden, last-minute TIE fighter incompetence that brought about the destruction of the Death Star itself--the loss of the six other Star Destroyers in engagements that none of them should have had trouble with? All of that nothing but normal battle stress?"

Here we see the consequences of Palpatine's death. This confirms the sheer level of dependency the Imperial Fleet had on the Emperor. It also conveniently helps explain the rapid gains of the Alliance to Restore the Republic after the Emperor's death, despite most of the Empire's infrastructure being intact. It would have taken some time for the Navy to regain it's "fighting spirit". Time which the Alliance could capitalize on to great effect.

In conclusion, Emperor Palpatine is strong enough to manipulate the minds of an entire galactic scale navy so constantly as to become wholly dependent on him for basic functioning in combat, all without the people being manipulated realizing it.
 
It's revealed that the Emperor was controlling the Imperial fleet so constantly that it lead them to develop an unhealthy dependency on him.
Hot take -- it's only claimed that this is the case, and it's an awfully convenient claim for Thrawn to make. ('The Navy didn't fail because they weren't as good as the Rebels, they failed because Palpy was controlling them' is curiously similar to German generals claiming that Hitler lost WW2 for them, that they could've totally won the war if he hadn't hampered them). It may still well be something he thinks is true, but we don't know that it's true -- combat stress, the morale shocks of the battle itself, etc. could very well explain the defeat, as could, y'know, the Rebels being better.
Was Thrawn at the battle of Endor? And even though Pellaeon was, Thrawn's claims about 'TIE fighter incompetence' and so forth are just assertions, and fail to take into account the Rebels' own agency. Sure, it's possible, and sure, C'Baoth does some Force coordination stuff later in the Thrawn books, but I don't particularly find it interesting -- I always kinda liked the idea that Luke confronting the Sheev (and ultimately getting Vader to turn on Palpatine) was not the deciding factor in the overall battle, that people who aren't Force users can still be relevant in Star Wars. (Same reason I despise the Disney-canon comic 'Vader Down' -- it feels so very wanky.)
 
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I understand your opinion, but Thrawn is the super-objective strategic super genius par excellence. I doubt he would be that self-deceiving just for the sake of his ego.
 
It is however convenient and strategically good for morale of the remaining troops who wouldn't like to acknowledge that Galactic Empire weapons outside of Death Star and other wunderwaffen existed mostly for Palpatine's sandbox war enjoyment. (see also clone wars).
Rebels outgunning them either by skill or weapons quality was not really a factor taken into consideration that much.

As for the self deception?
You are a person from a second class citizen race uplifted by the person literally on top of all pecking orders. He gives you purpose, makes you one of the "good ones" and appreciate your skillset in ways that were just close enough to what would've been given to you back home. But at the same time isolates you and subtly places you at odds with the rest of his command structure.
This breeds a mindset of being special and always right, the ace in the sleeve your benefactor can count on.

And because you are r/ImTheMainCharacter/ provably special you trust the system that elevated you there.
So of course it couldn't have been just better luck, gear or personnel.
It must have been the wunderwaffen failing.
Otherwise what does that make you, your history, and all the choices and advisory decisions you made up to this point.

tl;dr - I can see Thrawn being that self-deceiving without consciously or subconsciously spotting it precisely because of his personality and history with Empire.
 
I understand your opinion, but Thrawn is the super-objective strategic super genius par excellence. I doubt he would be that self-deceiving just for the sake of his ego.
Yet, y'know, he loses at Sluis Van, and he loses the overall campaign. If anything, it's Ackbar who's the true military genius. Count the rings.

Hell, the fact that Pellaeon just falls apart at Bilbringi when Thrawn is assassinated (thanks to his inability to maintain the loyalty of his bodyguards) suggests that Zahn's favorite art fan is not actually quite as good an admiral as the text claims he is. After all, shouldn't Thrawn's subordinates have at least some understanding of the plan for the battle, of what contingency options they have if things go unexpectedly? What if Chimaera's own comms had gone down or been jammed? Lone geniuses aren't, actually, necessarily the best military leaders.

(Also, Bilbringi also demonstrates that battlefield stress can turn what should've been a winnable battle into a losing one, and/or that Thrawn had a poor choice of subordinate.)

Also, while I don't think he necessarily needs to be self-deceiving for the sake of his ego, so much as just not informed properly, he is kinda egotistical. His plans are often just straight from his own mind, and he ignores Pellaeon's initial, entirely accurate, advice about C'baoth (and thinks he can control the crazy clone Jedi).

Also -- hot take #2: Thrawn's 'art-interpretation' shtick could just as easily be bullshit to cover up effective intelligence work, possibly intentionally speciesist bullshit to play to Imperial prejudices.
 
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Dominate Mind, Palpatine II
The Emperor Reborn can control everyone in the whole galaxy with the dark side.

In place of the Empire and the New Republic, Palpatine planned to bring about a new form of galactic governance. He would use the dark side to control everything and everyone in the galaxy. What's more, he was capable of it.

--Official Starships and Vehicle Collection #64
 
Also, Bilbringi also demonstrates that battlefield stress can turn what should've been a winnable battle into a losing one, and/or that Thrawn had a poor choice of subordinate.
Bilbringi didn't turn into a defeat because of battlefield stress, but because of unforeseen circumstances that altered the odds. Unforeseen circumstances Pellaeon decided he was simply too unskilled to deal with without Thrawn.
 
The Emperor Reborn can control everyone in the whole galaxy with the dark side.



--Official Starships and Vehicle Collection #64
If so, why does he lose? Count the rings.
Taking random lines of text as 100% canon when they don't fit what actually happened is 'feats'-based arguing at its silliest.

Bilbringi didn't turn into a defeat because of battlefield stress, but because of unforeseen circumstances that altered the odds. Unforeseen circumstances Pellaeon decided he was simply too unskilled to deal with without Thrawn.
No plan survives contact with the enemy. Unforeseen circumstances are, like, guaranteed in battles.

And either Pellaeon is incompetent (in which case it reflects badly on Thrawn for choosing him as his protege) or he's too stressed by the battle and by Thrawn's assassination to be able to win what Thrawn felt was a winnable battle.
 
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If so, why does he lose?
Taking random lines of text as 100% canon when they don't fit what actually happened is 'feats'-based arguing at its silliest.
Because he's not the only force user in the galaxy. Also, you don't have to use or agree with any of these feats. I'm just posting them here for reference.
 
Because he's not the only force user in the galaxy.
Then one, by definition, he can't control everyone in the Galaxy, and two, the events of all of Star Wars don't really play out as if one guy is actually capable of controlling everyone in the Galaxy.
(Unless you count Lucas :V)
 
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Then one, by definition, he can't control everyone in the Galaxy, and two, the events of all of Star Wars don't really play out as if one guy is actually capable of controlling everyone in the Galaxy.
(Unless you count Lucas :V)
I think he's saying he could, if he got a stable body, and defeated all the opposing force users. The quote makes this sound like his ultimate plan, not just something he could do at any time. Again though, you don't have to believe any of this.
 
I think he's saying he could, if he got a stable body, and defeated all the opposing force users. The quote makes this sound like his ultimate plan, not just something he could do at any time. Again though, you don't have to believe any of this.
If this is so baseless that you admit that we don't have to believe it, I can hardly see how authoritative it can be as a basis for palpatine's ability to control minds. Additionally, for a substantive part of their existence the rebellion had an enormous deficit of force sensitives, let alone trained Jedi, and it certainly wasn't in Sheev's interest for the rebellion to exist.
 
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