Stakeholder Choice: A Colonial Trader Quest

[Eldon]

[X]To Expand into Singapore: Your second trade station will be Singapore:

I am unsure on the cotton decision but we should 100% expand to Singapore. The value of rubber is only going to go up and Singapore is a great opportunity to continue expanding our connections east.

Edit: after more thinking on it going with the Tata. We have plenty of ways to invest right now so getting a income stream without investment is to good to pass up.
[X]The Tata Offer

 

[Chimeraguard]

Votes: You are making 4.5 income this turn

Click to shrink...

Hmm... is this after paying off the debt and family upkeep, or before?

If it's before, then we'll have 2 income afterwards, which is enough to take both of the profit-costing options... but I believe would leave us with no money when next turn starts.

For the Tatas:
Tata Textiles - Wikipedia
If things remain as historical, the Tatas won't be leaving the textile business for a long time.

I'm definitely for taking the Singapore deal, but I'm not sure about the Mill Offer. Cooperating with the Tatas instead of trying to compete with them might be the better option. Especially if we actually can use the profits saved to get into the Opium Trade in Singapore next turn.

[X]To Expand into Singapore

I'll go with this for now. Even if we weren't still trying to grow, we can't be dominant everywhere. I'm fine with letting the Tatas rule the textile industry while we supply them the cotton.

Since getting into the Steel Industry is impossible while the British maintain a monopoly there, I'm now undecided on the Cotton vote.

 

[mouli]

Hmm... is this after paying off the debt and family upkeep, or before?

Click to shrink...

Before.

 

[Parzival95]

[X]The Tata Offer
[X]To Expand into Singapore

 

[Random Member]

[X]The Abbasi Offer
[X]To Expand into Singapore

Maximize profits!

 

[Chimeraguard]

Before.

Click to shrink...

Understood. Leaning on the Tata offer then to make sure we still have some money when next turn comes along.

On the note of the Tata offer, if we expand the amount of cotton we're buying/supplying (if we can do that), will that increase the income we get from their offer?

 

[mouli]

On the note of the Tata offer, if we expand the amount of cotton we're buying/supplying (if we can do that), will that increase the income we get from their offer?

Click to shrink...

Yes, up to a point. They have a finite mill capacity, keep that in mind. Expanding the Bombay trade station will increase the amount you get and the output you have. Next turn is also the first time (1870s, remember) that Indian nationalists start using domestic goods as a means of building a national identity. The right moves can basically capitalize on the nascent Swadeshi movement, and historically this was done later on in the early 1900s.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Hmm... The Tatas don't get into the steel business until 1907 (3 years after Jamsetji's death), and we now own an iron mine. Conceding the textile business to them to try and get into steel early might be a possibility. Of course, the steel business was one of Jamsetji's main goals:

He dreamed of achieving 4 goals, setting up an iron and steel company, a unique hotel, a world-class learning institution and a hydro-electric plant.

Click to shrink...

so... Well, we'll see how things play out. In any case, I still think supplying the Tatas with cotton rather than trying to compete with them this early on is the better idea. Going down to 0 money when the 2nd turn starts will be a pretty bad kick to our growth potential.

 

[Secretariat]

Hmm... The Tatas don't get into the steel business until 1907 (3 years after Jamsetji's death), and we now own an iron mine. Conceding the textile business to them to try and get in there early might be a possibility. Of course, the steel business was one of Jamsetji's main goals:

so... Well, we'll see how things play out. In any case, I still think supplying the Tatas with cotton rather than trying to compete with them is the better idea.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, this is something I've been waffling on since we got the first piece of the update. We can become the Tatas, or we can be their suppliers -- but nobody got rich as a Wal-Mart supplier.

Plus, if we want to be ensconced enough in politics to prevent Partition, we're going to want good relations with the Muslim community.

@mouli -- if we reject the Tata offer and go into the milling business, are we in a position to form some kind of noncompete agreement with them?

 

[mouli]

@mouli -- if we reject the Tata offer and go into the milling business, are we in a position to form some kind of noncompete agreement with them?

Click to shrink...

No. The fabric grades and the feedstock are too similar right now for that, and you're both competing for the Indian markets where you can attempt to undercut English cloth from lack of shipping costs, since as of now there is no tax or penalty applied to indigenous textile mills.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Hmm, thought: If we try to move into the textile business. Maybe we can offer our iron mine to Jamsetji in return for him conceding more of the textile business to us. If setting up an iron and steel company is one of his Big Dreams, getting ownership (or at least the supply) of an iron mine would probably be huge for him, and he might be willing to pay a lot for one.
@mouli is this something that could happen?

Also, we have a dye trade route as well. Is that something we could use to boost our textile industry?

EDIT:

[X]Networking: 0.5 profit
--[X]Focus on:
---[X]The Other Shippers

Click to shrink...

Wait, I just realized. We never specified which station we were doing the Networking in, did we?

 

[mouli]

@mouli is this something that could happen?

Click to shrink...

Yes, but remember that you don't want to lock yourself out of all your heavy industry avenues. He won't seriously investigate a steel mill in his lifetime, and his sons will set up Tata Steel - that's a long, long time off.

Also, we have a dye trade route as well. Is that something we could use to boost our textile industry?

Click to shrink...

I'm factoring that in, seeing as some dyes are cheap in India.

Wait, I just realized. We never specified which station we were doing the Networking in, did we?

Click to shrink...

I've assumed Bombay, which is going to be applied to the informational and why you met Ibrahim Abbasi.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Got it. Hmm... gonna stick with supplying the textile industry instead of trying to muscle in on it for the moment. Use the money boost we get from that to try and push into the steel business early. And going down to 0 money at the start of next turn would be a serious hamstring on our growth potential, even if we can borrow money.

 

[Donkey Hote]

[X]The Abbasi Offer
[X]To Expand into Singapore

 

[Eldon]

Next turn I think we should see if we can go aggressive into the rubber market. Starting in the 1890's the demand for rubber is going to skyrocket suddenly and dramatically. And perhaps most crucially, unexpectedly. If we can mussel in on the rubber industry before it booms we can ride that wave for mass profits that we can then reinvest in other industries. Plus even after the boom years ended rubber was still very profitable its just it switched to more of a bulk good.

 

[Crimson Alchemis]

[X]The Abbasi Offer
[X]To Expand into Singapore

I am happy to industrialize in another sector.

Edit: Okay, arguments for industrialization has convinced me. Changed vote.

 

[Chimeraguard]

Agh, it seems like between our already existing sources of dyes and cotton, we'd be in a perfect spot to have the edge in the textile industry.

It's just... the opportunity cost from going down to 0 Money next turn and having to rely on borrowing to do anything hurts.

@mouli Some questions:
1) How much would our source of dyes increase our profit potential in the textile industry, and would it cost us more money to establish that? And if so, could we make a deal with the Tata Group to supply them with dye for their textiles as well?
2) One of the big reasons I can see not going into textiles is to use the money from being the Tata cotton supplier to getting an early steel mill up. Can we do so this early on, and if so, how much would it cost?
3) Are the costs for expanding networks and the station in Singapore similar to what they are for Calcutta and Bombay? Asking this to get an idea of the prospects of expanding the rubber trade and/or pushing into opium dealing there.

Another thought I had: if we're not going into the steel business early, what other heavy industry opportunities are there for us that we could feasibly get into? Right now it seems like steel is the only main one we can really consider, since we own an iron mine now.

 

[mouli]

1) How much would our source of dyes increase our profit potential in the textile industry, and would it cost us more money to establish that? And if so, could we make a deal with the Tata Group to supply them with dye for their textiles as well?
2) One of the big reasons I can see not going into textiles is to use the money from being the Tata cotton supplier to getting an early steel mill up. Can we do so this early on, and if so, how much would it cost?
3) Are the costs for expanding networks and the station in Singapore similar to what they are for Calcutta and Bombay? Asking this to get an idea of the prospects of expanding the rubber trade and/or pushing into opium dealing there.

Click to shrink...

1) It raises the upper bound of what you make, hence the wider range on the potential income in the option. And yes, if you can upgrade Calcutta to get the dye output you need, you can supply Tata - although given the booming indigo trade, the price you get from Tata per unit might be less in exchange for sending them a larger amount.
3) Yes, they are similar costs.
2) The earliest that I can see things happening is 1880-1890, since on further reading a lot of the railways built in India were the result of cozy and corrupt deals made back in England to ship steel across the world. It would (at present) cost 5-8 Profit for a small mill to supply lower grade steel for repairs, implements and castings, with the price dependent on a mix of me further reading and on whether or not you can wangle a partner into it. Perhaps the Tatas, if things go right.

Another thought I had: if we're not going into the steel business early, what other heavy industry opportunities are there for us that we could feasibly get into? Right now it seems like steel is the only main one we can really consider, since we own an iron mine now.

Click to shrink...

Steel is the second easiest, textiles the easiest. Food processing is another one, if others can manage to get the metalwork for tinning up and running. These are all things that you can move in on early, bear in mind, and not an exhaustive list of everything in game.

 

[Chimeraguard]

So it'd be a Turn 3 thing at earliest.
Hmm.... alright, I think I can see a broad strokes plan.

Turn 2, work on Singapore to either build up our stake in the rubber market for when the boom happens, or see if we can get into Opium trade for big profits. Turn 3-4, use said (hopefully) big profits to build up a steel mill, with the potential to reduce costs by working on (hopefully now established) connections with the Tatas if we still don't have enough money.

Ugh, textiles is apparently a really big industry in India, so not going into it hurts. But again, opportunity cost, there's other options for industry, and the British would probably see a competitor to the Tatas in the industry as a way to prevent the Indians from advancing too much. We have an iron mine thanks to a Goan Opportunity, so I think we should focus on that.

 

[Secretariat]

Thinking about this...

Supply me, the Tata says, and don't bother with the industrialization yet. I'll handle that. You'll make money. We will build the future.

Click to shrink...

No.

We might be partners with Tata, later on. But in order to earn his respect later, we have to contest him now.


[X]The Abbasi Offer
[X]To Expand into Singapore

On top of that, we want the Swadeshi movement to involve Muslims from the beginning. That gives us the relationships and networks to contest the 1905 Bengal partition on the ground; and long-term, we want to foster Hindu/Muslim unity so we can butterfly away 1947.

If we're going to do that, it starts here.

 

[Eldon]

Dispite it's profitability I would reather stay out of the textile market. Not only is it going to be competitive with both British imports and local manufacturers it is going to quickly become a hot button political issue. So although we could push into it it will be at a high risk both economically and politically.

Plus we have been warned that relying to much on a single commodity or chain is very risky if something goes wrong so best to grab another good or two before investing to much in larger chains.

 

[Secretariat]

Dispite it's profitability I would reather stay out of the textile market. Not only is it going to be competitive with both British imports and local manufacturers it is going to quickly become a hot button political issue. So although we could push into it it will be at a high risk both economically and politically.

Plus we have been warned that relying to much on a single commodity or chain is very risky if something goes wrong so best to grab another good or two before investing to much in larger chains.

Click to shrink...

At the moment, we're pretty well diversified -- and honestly, we can always sell our share of the mill to Tata.

 

[Eldon]

At the moment, we're pretty well diversified -- and honestly, we can always sell our share of the mill to Tata.

Click to shrink...

Right now we are diversified sure. But if we go textiles as is being considered a lot of that disappears as then 2 out of 4 goods we have are being used to support the textiles and then we will likely have to continue investing in textiles to keep competitive with British imports and other local mills. Then suddenly over half our sources of income are in one industry and if anything happens to disrupt it we could be in a very bad state.

Considering how competitive textiles currently is and how keen the British will be to try and keep their textile exports to India up I think some sort of disruption or price drop in the cloth chain is very likely to happen over the next few turns.

Also this was from turn events

Turn Events: American Civil War, British Cotton Stimulus, Deindustrialization, Tata Cotton Mills

Click to shrink...

So it is likely the British will not take to kindly to us investing directly into industry when they are actively trying to dismantle Indian industry.

Edit: To continue to build of of this our family leader, who also runs where we get our cotton and most likely will have any cotton mills we build has this trait

-Cautious: Actions taken in defiance of the authorities are less likely to succeed. Commercial actions proposed in turn are more likely to turn a profit and will be less adventurous. The dynasty will be far less inclined to diversify and take risks.

Click to shrink...

So going directly against British policy right now is not only politically risky but also less likely to work.

 

[kilopi505]

[X]The Tata Offer
[X]To Expand into Singapore

@mouli, can we go into the glass manufacturing industry? Or the local ship or boatbuilding industry?

...or found a maritime academy that would service the whole maritime industry?

 

[mouli]

@mouli, can we go into the glass manufacturing industry? Or the local ship or boatbuilding industry?

Click to shrink...

Glass is at present primarily artisanal, but I'll check that and get back to you. As far as shipping is concerned, the Tatas tried that and wound up shafted by British merchant cartels - remember that a large chunk of world trade is at present carried in British or British-built hulls, and the portion that isn't is mainly American or French which are closed markets. A maritime academy and shipbuilding will have to wait until the British Isles can either not conveniently service the world market (hint hint wartime) or the cartels' grip slackens a bit (hint hint labor unrest in Britain).