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Spells in Silence (Harry Potter)

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Arzte said:
What counts as publically distributed though? Even with wizarding things possibly making book copying easier before the invention of the printing press, I imagine that a good portion of books never was really distributed that far outside of collections at best.
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Sold to anyone who is willing to pay for it. So not one-off books written for one person to be given to another specific person.
 
I always thought the misinformation about magic, in canon and exemplified in this story, was one of the central tenets about Harry Potter's magic. The entire wizarding world seems to have only half an idea about how it actually works -casting via rote repetition and gut feeling in most cases- and even Dumbledore admitted that most of magic was a mystery to him.

This is also added to the theme of misinformation and ignorance in general, in that Muggles seem to have no idea about a a fundemental concept of their world's physics, meanwhile wizards often have zero comprehension of muggles despite living all around them and being related to them.

Enjoying the story lots thus far!
 
The library idea reminded me of two things the second one Is the planet sized library from Dr Who(David tenet era), but the first one I thought of was library Island from Negima! Magister Negi Magi. It has traps, lost knowledge, a club dedicated to exploring it, even underground beachs and waterfalls.

The two worlds go together so nicely but there are few crossovers or fusions of any length.
 
Silently Watches said:
So to change the subject entirely, I have an idea. I don't know that it's a good idea. It's honestly probably a bad idea. But it's a fun idea.
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So I'm going to stick my neck out and say it's not the right idea for this story, and here's why: Hogwarts presently is on a failing trajectory in Hazel's eyes, and I'm not sure you want to give it a saving throw like that.

Academically, a lot of classes are mostly useless. Transfiguration and Charms are very wand based. Binns makes History a joke. Snape looks like he will ruin potions class for her. Quirrell is canonically a weak instructor. So there's Herbology and possibly Astronomy which will be classes worth having.

Socially, it's even worse. Her one friend is Sally Anne, she's already socially isolated from the rest of the school, and she's already sour on the house system. Snape wants to feud with her, she dislikes McGonagall, and she will soon find out about Dumbledore's involvement with the Dursleys. Even Hagrid won't come away clean there.

So the library is really make-or-break. If it's the rather modest and Wizarding-focused place we see in canon, Hazel is going to run through it pretty quickly, and then what? Why stay, really?

And that's the sort of decision we don't see often in HP fanfic, one uniquely appropriate to this fic, and one fitting in the themes of Hogwarts, as honestly kind of a backwards place with a saving grace of good instruction in the core Wizarding magical arts. Maybe it's just not Hazel's jam.

So the infinite library would be cool, but in a sense it's giving Hogwarts an unearned saving throw. It'd be like if Snape spontaneously was reasonable fanfic Snape, or if Quirrell got a fanfic like surge from a Voldemort who wanted to take pride in teaching defense.

Then again, maybe you really need Hazel to stay at Hogwarts (or to not be actively imprisoned there) so it needs some saving throws. In that case it might be a good idea.
 
@Silently Watches i have one issue with the library idea, and one slight idea that could fit into it.

what is the framework on 'published books' because there are many, many books that are written, but never 'published', especially those that are meant to be for 'family/group', thus, what does the ritual consider 'published' and published by whom.
And how it would account for 'knowledge freely given' or count the 'paid for' is ot actual transactions or isbthe intent behind it? And what about books made by researchers?

And the idea is that the 'forbodden section' of the library is filled woth Books that are still being processed after the dungeon raids, thus full of warped magic, alongside the books from dangerous topics, thus serves as a placeholder for 'decontamination' of Books, and for books that are deemed 'dangerous knowledge, use responsibly and under supervision, else shit may happen'.
 
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Silently Watches said:
Sold to anyone who is willing to pay for it. So not one-off books written for one person to be given to another specific person.
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That would have been an exceedingly narrow selection at the time of the ritual. Commercial distribution of writing was not really a thing in the middle ages, and most books were generally hand copied by those who wanted them. Outside of fancy bibles, and maybe some translations of Greek and Latin philosophers and the like, this would be slim pickings. More importantly for Rowena, it wouldn't include personal, or family grimoires. I need those grimoires Godrick! Get me those fucking Grimoires!
 
This library idea gives me an instinctual sense of dread and it is difficult for me to track down precisely why. I think that it is possibly a bit too convenient for Hazel. It feels like it could go the same way as the dungeon master player character archetype, or a mary-sue/author-insert type that isn't the perspective character. I fear that it could be a place that is just a bit too perfect, solves just a bit too much, and dominates the story to a degree that detracts from other things. Why waste time with students and lessons and the mysteries of Wizarding Britain's most prestigious means of Hiding the Body? When she could instead just don her adventuring gear and get back to what she is good at: Soloing The Book Dungeon!

Then again, the fear of "what if Hazel spends all of her time gaining everything from the extra-special original-content!" seems rather comprehensively refuted by, well, just about the entire story so far... . If we are still here, then presumably we have no problem with Hazel spending a considerable quantity of words gaining special magical knowledge from a largely O.C. family of hags, largely at the expense of most other things she had been working upon previously, such as werewolf politics, wizards tracking her teleports, investigating her non-hag ancestry... . So I am guessing that the only thing that can reasonably be expected to be "lost" is her interactions with canon, which shouldn't be overmuch of a concern to readers who have already waited this long, unless it means that she misses out on some of their favourite scenes?

So I tentatively speculate that it is an entirely fine addition to have a place and club and challenge that seems right squarely in Hazel's ideal... I just feel that some caution is advised, given that likely many readers have encountered stories that handled similar things poorly in the past with an author putting down tens of thousands of words that felt to the readership like an endless stream of minor variations of "look at this extra-special wonderful thing I have created! This is the story now! It is the best story because it has the best thing!". I think that this could easily fall into the same situation that Adric Wesley Crusher of Star Trek: The Next Generation fame did, so there certainly seems to be a trap of some sort here that could be succumbed to, but everything that Spells in Silence has achieved so far suggests that it can competently navigate such a trap and get to the other side unscathed!

So... *shrugs* I speculate that this would be a fine addition, but caution that "If it looks too good to be true, then it probably is..." can apply to authoring, so try to be mindful? Maybe "measure twice, cut once"?
 
DeAnno said:
Then again, maybe you really need Hazel to stay at Hogwarts (or to not be actively imprisoned there) so it needs some saving throws. In that case it might be a good idea.
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If Hazel drops out of Hogwarts the Wizarding community will try to:

a) Break her wand!
b) if unavailable, break best available replacement, her Staff!!
c) Force her to stay because of the Prophecy.
d) do other bad things to her as needed.

Besides, she wants to learn what Wizards can do. In just 2 days she learned magic can transfigure one thing into another and special roses can change colors.
 
Well, Hazel will no doubt go exploring in the Forbidden Forest sooner or later. Maybe she can make friends with the centaurs? Can't be harder than befriending the hags.
 
corblimey said:
If Hazel drops out of Hogwarts the Wizarding community will try to:

a) Break her wand!
b) if unavailable, break best available replacement, her Staff!!
c) Force her to stay because of the Prophecy.
d) do other bad things to her as needed.

Besides, she wants to learn what Wizards can do. In just 2 days she learned magic can transfigure one thing into another and special roses can change colors.
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c) is unlikely because almost nobody knows the prophecy is a thing, and of those who do Dumbledore (at least in canon) believes there's no 'fate' or 'destiny' that forces them to happen; he even goes out of his way to explain to Harry that prophecies only come true if the people involved in them want them to happen anyway, and that not all prophecies are fulfilled.
 
NSMS said:
c) is unlikely because almost nobody knows the prophecy is a thing, and of those who do Dumbledore (at least in canon) believes there's no 'fate' or 'destiny' that forces them to happen; he even goes out of his way to explain to Harry that prophecies only come true if the people involved in them want them to happen anyway, and that not all prophecies are fulfilled.
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Dumbledore wants it to happen. The HP books are him working toward fulfilling the prophecy to kill Voldemort. He also tried to ensure Harry survived it but he wants the prophecy fulfilled.

veekie said:
If that happens she'd just pop off to France, good luck finding a teleporting invisible hobo
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can't they find her with magic? They never sought her before. Owls and House elves show people can be found if they're not protected against divination.
 
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corblimey said:
b) if unavailable, break best available replacement, her Staff!!
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I doubt it wizard arrogance would likely make them view it as nothing more than a tree branch found by a delusional little girl.
"It has no magic core, it's not even carved, clearly it's just a tree branch carried by a squib with delusions of grandeur."
 
corblimey said:
Dumbledore wants it to happen. The HP books are him working toward fulfilling the prophecy to kill Voldemort. He also tried to ensure Harry survived it but he wants the prophecy fulfilled.
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That's common fanon, but unfortunately not really supported by the text.
"But Harry, never forget that what the prophecy says is only significant because Voldemort made it so. I told you this at the end of last year. Voldemort singled you out as the person who would be most dangerous to him — and in doing so, he made you the person who would be most dangerous to him."

"But it comes to the same

"No, it doesn't!" said Dumbledore, sounding impatient now. Pointing at Harry with his black, withered hand, he said, "You are setting too much store by the prophecy!"

"But," spluttered Harry, "but you said the prophecy means —"

"If Voldemort had never heard of the prophecy, would it have been fulfilled? Would it have meant anything? Of course not! Do you think every prophecy in the Hall of Prophecy has been fulfilled?"

"But," said Harry, bewildered, "but last year, you said one of us would have to kill the other —"

"Harry, Harry, only because Voldemort made a grave error, and acted on Professor Trelawney's words! If Voldemort had never murdered your father, would he have imparted in you a furious desire for revenge? Of course not! If he had not forced your mother to die for you, would he have given you a magical protection he could not penetrate? Of course not, Harry! Don't you see? Voldemort himself created his worst enemy, just as tyrants everywhere do! Have you any idea how much tyrants fear the people they oppress? All of them realize that, one day, amongst their many victims, there is sure to be one who rises against them and strikes back! Voldemort is no different! Always he was on the lookout for the one who would challenge him. He heard the prophecy and he leapt into action, with the result that he not only handpicked the man most likely to finish him, he handed him uniquely deadly weapons!"
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"Got to?" said Dumbledore. "Of course you've got to! But not because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest until you've tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment, that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about Voldemort now? Think!"

Harry watched Dumbledore striding up and down in front of him, and thought. He thought of his mother, his father, and Sirius. He thought of Cedric Diggory. He thought of all the terrible deeds he knew Lord Voldemort had done. A flame seemed to leap inside his chest, searing his throa

"I'd want him finished," said Harry quietly. "And I'd want to do it

"Of course you would!" cried Dumbledore. "You see, the prophecy does not mean you have to do anything! But the prophecy caused Lord Voldemort to mark you as his equal. . . . In other words, you are free to choose your way, quite free to turn your back on the prophecy! But Voldemort continues to set store by the prophecy. He will continue to hunt you . . . which makes it certain, really, that —"

"That one of us is going to end up killing the other," said Harry. "Yes."
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He's preparing Harry to face Voldemort (at least in the last few books), yes, but not because of the prophecy- or at least not directly.

Dumbledore knows that Voldemort sets great store in the prophecy and will seek to kill Harry, and he knows Harry both hates Voldemort and has a number of unique advantages over him. He believes it's inevitable they're going to clash, yes- but it's because of their natures and history together and not the prophecy. The prophecy itself he believes only has any validity because people want to do what it says anyway, and he makes it very clear it's not an iron-clad lock or fated or anything; if he or anybody else had the opportunity to kill Voldemort he'd want it taken, prophecy be damned.
 
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NSMS said:
That's common fanon, but unfortunately not really supported by the text.


He's preparing Harry to face Voldemort (at least in the last few books), yes, but not because of the prophecy- or at least not directly.

Dumbledore knows that Voldemort sets great store in the prophecy and will seek to kill Harry, and he knows Harry both hates Voldemort and has a number of unique advantages over him. He believes it's inevitable they're going to clash, yes- but it's because of their natures and history together and not the prophecy. The prophecy itself he believes only has any validity because people want to do what it says anyway, and he makes it very clear it's not an iron-clad lock or fated or anything; if he or anybody else had the opportunity to kill Voldemort he'd want it taken, prophecy be damned.
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well, it doesn't change a lot. Whether the prophecy make puppets of its subjects or, as Dumbledore claimed, it describe an inevitable outcome, he still believes Harry Hazel will face Voldemort and one of them will die.

Hazel: I don't care about Voldy. Live and let live. That's my mantra. I'll go hide now.
Dumbledore: Nani?!:confused:

veekie said:
See Deathly Hallows.

Divinations either have limited range and strict criteria or are vague as all fuck.
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Harry's owls found Sirius over international distances between book 3 and 5.
 
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NSMS said:
That's common fanon, but unfortunately not really supported by the text.


He's preparing Harry to face Voldemort (at least in the last few books), yes, but not because of the prophecy- or at least not directly.

Dumbledore knows that Voldemort sets great store in the prophecy and will seek to kill Harry, and he knows Harry both hates Voldemort and has a number of unique advantages over him. He believes it's inevitable they're going to clash, yes- but it's because of their natures and history together and not the prophecy. The prophecy itself he believes only has any validity because people want to do what it says anyway, and he makes it very clear it's not an iron-clad lock or fated or anything; if he or anybody else had the opportunity to kill Voldemort he'd want it taken, prophecy be damned.
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It should also be noted that it's common fanon to have Dumbledore know more than he actually did in canon, he knew Tom had survived somehow but not how until Harry bought him the diary at the end of the second book. Only then does he know about the horcruxs and he still doesn't know how many there are.

He doesn't know about a connection between Harry and Tom till likely the second book because of the parseltongue, he might've suspected there was something as early as the ending of the first book.

There's no evidence he figured out Harry was a horcrux till the fifth book after the attack on Mr. Weasley.
Though it is possible he could have figured it out as early as the ending of the second book.
 
NSMS said:
That's common fanon, but unfortunately not really supported by the text.


He's preparing Harry to face Voldemort (at least in the last few books), yes, but not because of the prophecy- or at least not directly.

Dumbledore knows that Voldemort sets great store in the prophecy and will seek to kill Harry, and he knows Harry both hates Voldemort and has a number of unique advantages over him. He believes it's inevitable they're going to clash, yes- but it's because of their natures and history together and not the prophecy. The prophecy itself he believes only has any validity because people want to do what it says anyway, and he makes it very clear it's not an iron-clad lock or fated or anything; if he or anybody else had the opportunity to kill Voldemort he'd want it taken, prophecy be damned.
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That's what Dumbledore claims. His actions – spreading the Tom memories in book 6 over an entire year instead of showing them all in one day, scattering clues in a scavenger hunt fashion instead of just telling Harry what he knows or suspects, not giving Harry any actual advice on how to deal with Voldemort beyond "you'll figure it out, my boy!" – don't reflect the attitude of someone who doesn't believe Fate is controlling the outcome. If it's really going to come down to a fight between a 17-year-old average student and a 70ish-year-old master of evil magic, I know who the smart money is on and it ain't Harry.

It's why there is so much evil!Dumbledore in fanfiction. He claims one thing, and we want to believe him, but the actions we see him take don't match up. So we have to look for either a Doylist explanation (JKR wrote him poorly so Harry would be the one who solved every problem) or a Watsonian explanation (he's lying about what he actually wants and thinks, and therefore has a hidden motive). Doylist explanations unfortunately are just not as satisfying as Watsonian explanations in general, so people gravitate to the latter.
 
Silently Watches said:
That's what Dumbledore claims. His actions – spreading the Tom memories in book 6 over an entire year instead of showing them all in one day, scattering clues in a scavenger hunt fashion instead of just telling Harry what he knows or suspects, not giving Harry any actual advice on how to deal with Voldemort beyond "you'll figure it out, my boy!" – don't reflect the attitude of someone who doesn't believe Fate is controlling the outcome. If it's really going to come down to a fight between a 17-year-old average student and a 70ish-year-old master of evil magic, I know who the smart money is on and it ain't Harry.

It's why there is so much evil!Dumbledore in fanfiction. He claims one thing, and we want to believe him, but the actions we see him take don't match up. So we have to look for either a Doylist explanation (JKR wrote him poorly so Harry would be the one who solved every problem) or a Watsonian explanation (he's lying about what he actually wants and thinks, and therefore has a hidden motive). Doylist explanations unfortunately are just not as satisfying as Watsonian explanations in general, so people gravitate to the latter.
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The Doylist is the one I'm certain that's actually true; we're meant to take Dumbledore as a benevolent grandfatherly figure. JK just didn't do the best job at portraying him that way, not helped by the early books being much more... I want to say whimsical? Tropey? They had more silly and 'just for fun' stuff, at least.

That doesn't mean you can't interpret him or write him differently, obviously, just that it's not his intended canonical portrayal.
 
I think the problem was that jk forgot she was writting a children book half way through the story

It would have been better if everyone helped Harry a la` Power of friendship and the Power he know not was Trust instead of a face off that he should not have any hope on winning
 
Meh, it would have made sense IF Dumbles was seen or narrating about doing and stopping other plots and thus unavailable to Harry and the 'scatter shit and hope he finds it and learn the correct lesson' plan was the last option and was incomplete, as a last will 'if i fuck up and bite it, then this shit may help you grow'
 
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