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Spells in Silence (Harry Potter)

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hamof said:
I would like to take this moment to remind everyone* of a conversation in the second book, wherein Ron tells us that the majority of wizards are half-bloods and that they'd have died out ages ago if they didn't have "kids with muggles."* So no, inbreeding isn't an issue except in the very few families who still believe that nonsense.

*I'm not looking this up, but I think that's pretty much what he said.
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How many families do we actually hear about with straight up magical - non magical pairings? One?
 
Nyvis said:
How many families do we actually hear about with straight up magical - non magical pairings? One?
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Substitute muggles for muggleborn or other half-bloods as needed. The point is that there are actually comparatively few purebloods, and the extensive inbreeding that families like the Blacks engaged in was the exception not the rule. Presumably the Weasleys are just coincidental.
 
hamof said:
Substitute muggles for muggleborn or other half-bloods as needed. The point is that there are actually comparatively few purebloods, and the extensive inbreeding that families like the Blacks engaged in was the exception not the rule. Presumably the Weasleys are just coincidental.
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But that's typical Rowling, isn't it? Telling us a thing rather than building it in the setting.

Like how none of the order is ever mentioned to be muggleborn to my knowledge.
 
Nyvis said:
But that's typical Rowling, isn't it? Telling us a thing rather than building it in the setting.

Like how none of the order is ever mentioned to be muggleborn to my knowledge.
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Well, Tonks at least is halfblood, her dad is muggleborn. Outside that, yeah I don't know.
 
European wizards see calling out the name of a spell as a key element for visualization, and therefore, all spellcasting, and they've internalized the idea of "calling out the name of the spell is key to spellcasting" to the point that all their methods of teaching involve it. By extension, this creates wizards that can miscast just by getting the pronuntiation wrong. (Probably why the tinguetying curse exists in the first place.) And Hazel being mute...
 
hamof said:
I would like to take this moment to remind everyone* of a conversation in the second book, wherein Ron tells us that the majority of wizards are half-bloods and that they'd have died out ages ago if they didn't have "kids with muggles."* So no, inbreeding isn't an issue except in the very few families who still believe that nonsense.

*I'm not looking this up, but I think that's pretty much what he said.
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This is one thing that I routinely change in my head canon and stories. If the purebloods were a tiny group that was steadily breeding themselves out of existence, I have trouble believing that 1) they could bribe their way out of prison so easily ("Please, Mr. Black Officer, how much money do you want to believe that I was coerced into lynching this man"), and 2) that a character who was described as being "brilliant" and a "prodigy" like a certain Tom Riddle would side with them for his attempt at burning the world to the ground.
 
The Game said:
European wizards see calling out the name of a spell as a key element for visualization, and therefore, all spellcasting, and they've internalized the idea of "calling out the name of the spell is key to spellcasting" to the point that all their methods of teaching involve it. By extension, this creates wizards that can miscast just by getting the pronuntiation wrong. (Probably why the tinguetying curse exists in the first place.) And Hazel being mute...
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Don't they also teach how to get past it later though, with silent casting?

Silently Watches said:
This is one thing that I routinely change in my head canon and stories. If the purebloods were a tiny group that was steadily breeding themselves out of existence, I have trouble believing that 1) they could bribe their way out of prison so easily ("Please, Mr. Black Officer, how much money do you want to believe that I was coerced into lynching this man"), and 2) that a character who was described as being "brilliant" and a "prodigy" like a certain Tom Riddle would side with them for his attempt at burning the world to the ground.
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The Habsburgs were both very much inbred and extremely powerful. The key is wealth and political positions, not really numbers.

As for Tom, he's clearly using them rather than siding with them.
 
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The Game said:
They do. I think an appropiate metaphor would be that they kept the training wheels on for far too long.
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Let's flip the metaphor on its head: they stuck with bicycles over unicycles because that's more useful for most people.

The only real case for silent casting made in the books is duelling and fighting.
 
Nyvis said:
Let's flip the metaphor on its head: they stuck with bicycles over unicycles because that's more useful for most people.

The only real case for silent casting made in the books is duelling and fighting.
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And the US result of "It's a lot easier to keep it from the Muggles if you're not shouting out spells"
 
The Game said:
They do. I think an appropiate metaphor would be that they kept the training wheels on for far too long.
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Nyvis said:
Let's flip the metaphor on its head: they stuck with bicycles over unicycles because that's more useful for most people.

The only real case for silent casting made in the books is duelling and fighting.
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Mmhmm. I realize that the real reason everyone uses verbal incantations in the early books is because Rowling hadn't thought of nonverbal casting, but my takeaway IC reason is that it's NOT easy to do. Helpfully confirmed by the text of book 6. Classes starting off with nonverbal spells would be… tricky.
 
Silently Watches said:
Mmhmm. I realize that the real reason everyone uses verbal incantations in the early books is because Rowling hadn't thought of nonverbal casting, but my takeaway IC reason is that it's NOT easy to do. Helpfully confirmed by the text of book 6. Classes starting off with nonverbal spells would be… tricky.
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As was pointed out, schools like Ilvermorny which require silent casting probably introduce the concept early on, like end of year 1 or start of year 2.

Hogwarts didn't start talking about it until year six, and it's obviously not a graduation requirement since the adults are all using verbal spells. It may be that Snape actually made the Silent Casting more important to the syllabus than previous professors*.


*related: A Tumblr post hypothesizes that Snape may be teaching his own improved potions instead of teaching from the book. It still doesn't excuse his "Instructions are on the board", "Stand here and cast silently", or worse "Clear your mind!" 'instruction style'**. (The man was a NOT a fit teacher, he was a 13 year old's 'deepest fear', even more than the still living woman who tortured his parents to insanity.)

**I suppose I can excuse some of it as Harry being the focal character and him not paying any attention, but when Harry teaches the DA he explains that feelings can help power spells, Flitwick and McGonagall are both shown correcting pronunciation and wand movement. Snape just gets "Instructions are on the board" and "Clear your mind"
 
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Valdimarian said:
The man was a NOT a fit teacher, he was a 13 year old's 'deepest fear', even more than the still living woman who tortured his parents to insanity.)
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And his terrifying overbearing Gram, and possibly evil elitist uncle that traumatized him as a child.
But yeah, mostly the crazy lady.

Lupin should have raised Hell about that, But no, he dressed Snape up as a lady, it's funny!


Oh, and he is responsible for the drop in Healers, potion makers, and Aurors in Britain, because of so few people going into 6th and 7th year potions.
 
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FictionPack said:
And his terrifying overbearing Gram, and possibly evil elitist uncle that traumatized him as a child.
But yeah, mostly the crazy lady.

Lupin should have raised Hell about that, But no, he dressed Snape up as a lady, it's funny!
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The uncle who threw him out a window something so scary that his until then reluctant Accidental Magic actually protected him.

But nope, his deepest fear isn't falling, Bellatrix, or anything like that, it's his potions professor.


(Tangentially related: Hermione's deepest fear isn't McGonagall it's being failed, which some (myself included) extend to her fear of failing out, being expelled, and having her memories of her friends wiped. (Because Hermione doesn't do things by halves) )

FictionPack said:
Oh, and he is responsible for the drop in Healers, potion makers, and Aurors in Britain, because of so few people going into 6th and 7th year potions.
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That's not backed up either way by canon. It could be his strict policies resulted in fewer but much higher quality applicants instead of them having to weed out or reeducate a bunch of people who couldn't boil soup.
 
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Nyvis said:
I expect the wizarding word is awful about disabilities it can't cure.
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They would also be quite few, since unless the disability is from a "dark curse" they can pretty much just permanently transfigure people and body parts. No hearing-> new ears, blind? New eyes. Deaf? Speak up potion or something. If spells can make inanimate objects talk, think and see, they can make people do the same.

You are correct tho, lycanthrophy is treated horribly.
 
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demonitter said:
They would also be quite few, since unless the disability is from a "dark curse" they can pretty much just permanently transfigure people and body parts. No hearing-> new ears, blind? New eyes. Deaf? Speak up potion or something. If spells can make inanimate objects talk, think and see, they can make people do the same.

You are correct tho, lycanthrophy is treated horribly.
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But what are the limits really?
Lucius has a limp
Mad Eye lost an eye
A twin lost an ear
Baldness is still a thing
As is weight
Glasses are everywhere

I'll admit the first 3 are probably for magical interference, but the big point of not being able to fix people's vision?
 
Does Lucius have a limp or does he just carry a cane because he is pretentious?
All of Mad Eye's injuries are from various curses.
The twin who lost an ear lost it to a curse.
And while some dark magic has counter curses (sectusempra needed specific healing), not all of it does.

I can't comment on baldness, glasses or weight.
 
I don't think we see any transfiguration to permanently heal people?

All the healing seem to be through potions, and it seems to be focused to bringing people back to their previous natural state, so fixing naturally occurring issues is likely to not be on the cards.
 
Nyvis said:
I don't think we see any transfiguration to permanently heal people?

All the healing seem to be through potions, and it seems to be focused to bringing people back to their previous natural state, so fixing naturally occurring issues is likely to not be on the cards.
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Madam Pomfrey mentions in book 2 that if Harry hadn't had all the bones in his arm removed, she could have fixed the break easily – I think it was either stated or implied to be wand-work. And I vaguely recall a spell used to fix a broken nose or something in one of the last three books? Was that Episkey, or was that something else?
 
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