SpaceX Launches, Landings and News
- Thread starter Shadows
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- Megathread
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- California, USA
It is amazing to see such a thing. It's like science fiction. Also, it's so cool to see a private company get this involved in space. Just imagine if more of the private-sector decide to get involved.
So 90s Cyberpunk Dystopia, but in SPACE!?
Vyslanté
The self is a prison
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- European Union
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
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- USS Civilian, DDG-214
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- She/Her
Fuck off with that, thank you.
Vyslanté
The self is a prison
- Location
- European Union
Staff Notice
Hey, I don't want to rain on your bootlicking parade, but one can like space exploration and dislike giving it to private interests.
Angle
Release Candidate Enby
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- Colorado, USA
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- They/Them/Theirs/Comrade
Cmd. Frost
The last one standing.
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- The Summer Stretch
Look if it get's us into space faster then great. NASA's had nine years to get Americans back in orbit and on that front they've accomplished almost fuck all.
If a private company can out do everyone else in the field then power to them, we shouldn't be forced to drag our feet on this shit just because the Fed refuses to hand out a decent budget.
If a private company can out do everyone else in the field then power to them, we shouldn't be forced to drag our feet on this shit just because the Fed refuses to hand out a decent budget.
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I'm speculating to an extent here, but maybe they're more annoyed you tried to make it look like they'd said your completely different to their actual point of view all while presenting it as if it was a fix. Discussion wise at least I'm struggling to see how that could be a good thing to do, it's in a way like trying to erase their opinion, like they're only allowed to say things that are allowed. And then afterwards in this reply you then continue to project your opinion on what must be surely their biases, though I'm kind of dubious of that interpretation. Favoring one type system to get to solutions over another is hardly boot licking after all, and trying to present it like that is highly deceptive.
I hope this explains how your statements could possibly be seen as highly offensive and would quite likely not lead to a further constructive dialogue, or really convincing anyone. Typically in my experience most people would be more inclined to dig their heels in after being insulted a few times like that.
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In other news, with the ISS part of the trip looking good as well now, I guess we just have to see if it the new capsule brings back people safely. And then we'll have a confirmed new system good for human transport to and from space. Fairly hopeful that will happen considering past tests, but still a bit nervous anyway, small issues can sometimes become really big problems in spaceflight, so hopefully nothing was overlooked.
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
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- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Bootlicking? Listen here. I'm Team Space. I don't give a fuck who goes where or does what. I am equally happy when *anyone* goes.
Get out of my thread.
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- California, USA
Doesn't NASA research and develop technology and release said technology to the private sector and told them to 'go wild'?
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- They/Them
That's... weird? Like, I can get you not caring about who goes up, but it seems like "what they do" is a pretty important component.
Cmd. Frost
The last one standing.
- Location
- The Summer Stretch
Yes, they do actually!
Right, and what SpaceX has done so far is launch a bunch of satellites and put two people on the ISS. Not exactly all that threatening.
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- They/Them
I actually sorta agree? I don't trust them, and I really don't trust Musk, but at least so far it's just mostly been this-and-that.
I was just commenting on the general principle stated, that they don't care what anyone does in space, as long as it's in space they're happy. Which struck me as weird.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
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Actually, that's more because NASA/Congress decided back in...2010, I think? That private companies could, with a limited amount of government funding, perform the "get into orbit/get crew to the ISS" missions much more cheaply than just having NASA do it all. It took 10 years to achieve that. The real problem is that the space shuttle program was cancelled back in 2003 (IIRC), and there was no replacement program for at least orbital capability ready even seven years later. If Bush/Congress had started the Commercial Crew Program back in 2003, we'd have been in space back in 2013 or so.
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Plus, Starship's development means that there are going to be two rockets capable of reaching the moon and coming back, not just one. Which is a big deal--it means either more missions going to the moon, or a greater ability to keep going to the moon if Congress is willing to fund more missions to the moon on Starship because it's a lot cheaper but not willing to fund more missions on the SLS (like what happened with Apollo). It also means that, potentially, other nations could pay SpaceX to take them to the moon, which puts more funds into Starship missions, meaning that there are more missions from more nations, etc.
It's really very exciting.
- Location
- Austria
Eh, space is just a place; it's cool that we do stuff there, but it's not really more or less important than stuff we do back here.
It's annoying that government agencies seem less only allowed to innovate and risk iteration over iteration of failure (necessary part of bleeding edge research) if they privatize it though; kind of feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy - deny funding for actual ways research is done, then, when it is done by private sector (because only they are not forbidden to experiment), crow about innovative entrepreneurial spirit.
Pitting public and private sector against each other while having blinded and tied up public sector beforehand kind of leaves a bitter aftertaste is all.
I mean, it's not unusual for govt to outsource such construction, naturally - think Boeing and Lockheed-Martin for air; SpaceX seems well-placed to be Boeing of space when/if it takes off. Which is neat (not useful yet, although that may change, but neat). It's just that I wonder what could have NASA achieved if they were allowed to explode several dozens of rockets in a row as a part of experimental progress.
It's annoying that government agencies seem less only allowed to innovate and risk iteration over iteration of failure (necessary part of bleeding edge research) if they privatize it though; kind of feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy - deny funding for actual ways research is done, then, when it is done by private sector (because only they are not forbidden to experiment), crow about innovative entrepreneurial spirit.
Pitting public and private sector against each other while having blinded and tied up public sector beforehand kind of leaves a bitter aftertaste is all.
I mean, it's not unusual for govt to outsource such construction, naturally - think Boeing and Lockheed-Martin for air; SpaceX seems well-placed to be Boeing of space when/if it takes off. Which is neat (not useful yet, although that may change, but neat). It's just that I wonder what could have NASA achieved if they were allowed to explode several dozens of rockets in a row as a part of experimental progress.
- Location
- California, USA
Well, from an outsider's point-of-view, I guess it's working.
If things work out with SpaceX, maybe more governments and private companies would consider putting more resources into the space sector.
I'm not sure it's really wise to think of space flight as particularly public. An extremely large amount has always gone to subcontractors etc. In a way the transition is more from changing from giving corporations cost plus contracts, where you give them more money if they can't do it in the agreed upon sum of money, to more fixed contracts, where you succeed at the price or you've failed.
Now one could bring an argument on if making it more public or not would work. But considering the actual model where it came from, this particular transition is arguably probably for the better. At times the old system looked very much like just giving big corporations more money, like the enormous cost overruns with SLS. Not having a what at times almost seems like a blank check might... well probably will make them spend actual public money more responsibly. As extensions aren't nearly so automatic.
Now one could bring an argument on if making it more public or not would work. But considering the actual model where it came from, this particular transition is arguably probably for the better. At times the old system looked very much like just giving big corporations more money, like the enormous cost overruns with SLS. Not having a what at times almost seems like a blank check might... well probably will make them spend actual public money more responsibly. As extensions aren't nearly so automatic.
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Alert: OP Thread Management does not apply here
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- He/Him
op thread management does not apply here
Hey, we're not in Question. The OP does not actually get to dictate who participates in the thread.
Hey, we're not in Question. The OP does not actually get to dictate who participates in the thread.
do not escalate
Do not escalate this shit. Discussing the ethics or implications of private space travel is fine, jumping immediately to calling someone a bootlicker because they don't like you rewording their quotes isn't cool.
Do not escalate this shit. Discussing the ethics or implications of private space travel is fine, jumping immediately to calling someone a bootlicker because they don't like you rewording their quotes isn't cool.
Honestly I'm a bit surprised by this decision. The Falcon 9 reuse makes sense since at this point out of the 84 Falcon 9 flights they have had 31 re-flights with only one issue, Starlink-6, and even that successfully completed its mission. In fact if you look at just the Block 5 Falcon 9s, which is what Crew Dragon is flying on, then out of 30 flights 20 have been reused so they arguably have a better record then the new Block 5s.
Crew Dragon reuse meanwhile seems quite shocking. They are dropped into the ocean and there won't even be any post-flight test data on Endeavour for months. Sure they can look to the Cargo Dragons and the successful reuse of those to indicate that it is possible but giving a go ahead so quickly without data on the actual Crew Dragons seems out of character for NASA.
Crew Dragon reuse meanwhile seems quite shocking. They are dropped into the ocean and there won't even be any post-flight test data on Endeavour for months. Sure they can look to the Cargo Dragons and the successful reuse of those to indicate that it is possible but giving a go ahead so quickly without data on the actual Crew Dragons seems out of character for NASA.
The current Crew Dragon mission wasn't the first, as is typical for SpaceX so far, they do test runs before hand. The official name for this flight was also Demo-2, which kind of also gives away there was something before it. In this case Demo-1 was a Crew Dragon mission minus crew that was launched last year. It did the entire cycle this of launch, navigate to ISS, dock and splash down last year. This gave them time to study if nothing untoward had happened with the capsule at any stage in the run up to an actually crewed capsule.
So NASA indeed as you were actually expecting has put some caution in to the matter. Though I'm kind of surprised they gave the ok quite 'this' quickly anyway, you'd think they'd have waited at least until after Demo-2 had actually completed. But I guess they must have substantial faith in the system holding up at this point.
So NASA indeed as you were actually expecting has put some caution in to the matter. Though I'm kind of surprised they gave the ok quite 'this' quickly anyway, you'd think they'd have waited at least until after Demo-2 had actually completed. But I guess they must have substantial faith in the system holding up at this point.
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The decision appears to have been made before the first launch attempt. So they likely held off on it incase something went wrong during the launch.
Except that Demo-1 was no way reflective of actual mission wear and tear on the capsule. Demo-1 lasted six days while Crew-1 is planned for six months. That is quite significant when the primary concern regarding loss of crew is micrometeorites cause damage while docked to the ISS. On top of this Demo-1 kinda you know exploded during testing. Yes the explosion was due to something unrelated to the launch and yes they did have over a month to run tests on it before however it does raise concerns nonetheless.