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Small Arms Commission Quest II: I swear I won't just wander off again edition.

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So the voting moratorium ends in ~10hrs and I'm thinking it won't happen again.

But yeah full auto or not is going to cause trade offs especially depending on the type of feed system used. Even if the majority of rounds proposed are ~10-15% less energetic than 8mm Mauser or .308 and .30-06.
 
I'm broadly in favor of the 6mm and think sticking with semi-auto only is probably fine for now. Magazine loading would be nice, although that also depends on how heavy/expensive the magazines end up being.

We want a nice battle rifle; suppressive fire is for machine guns.
 
The thing about full auto is that when you need it, you really need it. With that in mind, I'd rather include it as an option than leave it out. Given the ammunition we're looking at, I think no one is going to be shooting this full auto without a damn good reason anyway, so fears about wasting ammo or reduced accuracy are probably overblown and the only real downsides are any impacts on the action and feed system and such from being able to handle the capability.
 
Assuming we are talking about a general purpose rifle, and not a battle rifle:

No More than 4kg unloaded would be ideal

7.5mm r/63 cartridge looks to be the best to me for single fire, good enough radius and length to be fitted in clips and magazines in large numbers, good bullet mass for stopping power and penetration, good muzzle velocity and energy for trajectory and penetration.

If we're gonna do full auto on a light gun: 6mm r/50 should definitely be the round of choice. To save the engineers headache it would be best to just have auto as the only setting, but on a low rpm so soldiers can still squeeze single shots off with disciplined fire.

If we are gonna go the battle rifle route, 6mm r/71 for full auto and max 4.5 kg unloaded should be what we shoot for. even if it means less mag capacity
 
[ ] plan import ammo presses 2
-[ ] Use a 6.5 Irromine cartridge
-[ ] The gun should be able to fire automatically or in single shots
-[ ] The gun should charge from a magazine
-[ ] The gun should fire from a closed bolt
-[ ] The gun should weigh under 6.3kg dry
-[ ] The gun should have a full forestock for mounting a bipod on and for bayonet with
-[ ] The gun should have an integral rifle grenade adaptor
-[ ] The gun should be able to mount a bayonet without interrupting the site picture.
-[ ] The gun should have an ambidexterous charging handle
-[ ] The gun should eject or deflect cases either down or have the ejection direction able to be changed at an armorer discretion.
 
looseanon said:
my peeve is that 6.3kg dry is very heavy. I also personally feel like bipod adaptability is not very useful.
I would instead add adjustable sights up to 500m to that list.
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6.3kg is a bit more than a Colt Monitor. It's probably an important consideration when the average Marine enlisted man is like 68kg and 170cm tall.
 
NothingNow said:
6.3kg is a bit more than a Colt Monitor. It's probably an important consideration when the average Marine enlisted man is like 68kg and 170cm tall.
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yeah a weapon being nearly 10% of the average infantryman's bodyweight is suboptimal in my opinion. although it would make sense for something like an LMG or full Battle rifle.
 
Are battle rifles even a thing right now? I don't mean "do they exist", I mean "is there a category roughly corresponding to battle rifles that people actually have a name for and think of as a distinct class of gun with particular and distinguishing attributes and purposes?"
 
brmj said:
Are battle rifles even a thing right now? I don't mean "do they exist", I mean "is there a category roughly corresponding to battle rifles that people actually have a name for and think of as a distinct class of gun with particular and distinguishing attributes and purposes?"
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I doubt it. But we CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN BABY
 
Rat King said:
Our army currently uses bolt-action rifles, correct? Or is the Elta self-loading?
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WoG says it's a Krag.

[] Plan This Is Not an LMG, Goddamnit!
--[] Use the 6mm r/71 Cartridge
--[] The weapon should weigh no more than 5kg empty.
--[] The weapon should fire from a closed bolt.
--[] The weapon should be capable of mounting a bayonet.
--[] The weapon should have a magazine capacity of at least 10 rounds.
--[] The weapon should have an integral rifle grenade adapter.
--[] The weapon should be either select fire or semi-automatic.
I want to leave our options for magazines open--ideally, we would adopt something that feeds from detachable magazines, but depending on how reliable we can make them at the moment it might be best not to count on them.
Adhoc vote count started by Michael Lewis on Dec 13, 2018 at 12:21 PM, finished with 34 posts and 11 votes.
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Michael Lewis said:
WoG says it's a Krag.

[] Plan This Is Not an LMG, Goddamnit!
--[] Use the 6mm r/71 Cartridge
--[] The weapon should weigh no more than 5kg empty.
--[] The weapon should fire from a closed bolt.
--[] The weapon should be capable of mounting a bayonet.
--[] The weapon should have a magazine capacity of at least 10 rounds.
--[] The weapon should have an integral rifle grenade adapter.
--[] The weapon should be either select fire or semi-automatic.
I want to leave our options for magazines open--ideally, we would adopt something that feeds from detachable magazines, but depending on how reliable we can make them at the moment it might be best not to count on them.
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This is broadly similar to the plan I was considering, so I think once voting gets going I'm inclined to support. Only thing that really differs is the grenade adapter and I'm totally on board with keeping that. I also had it down to 4.5 kg, but putting it at 5 gives us some wiggle room.
 
Rat King said:
Our army currently uses bolt-action rifles, correct? Or is the Elta self-loading?
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It's a Krag-Jørgensen pretty much. Rear locking lugs and handle, five round capsule magazine (plus one in the chamber) that can be fed either from five round stripper clips or a loading gate on the side. The Army uses a 76cm barrel on their rifles, the Marines and some Constitutional Guards have a short rifle at 56cm, which is the same length as the Army's cavalry "carbines."
 
[X] Plan This Is Not an LMG, Goddamnit!
--[X] Use the 6mm r/71 Cartridge
--[X] The weapon should weigh no more than 5kg empty.
--[X] The weapon should fire from a closed bolt.
--[X] The weapon should be capable of mounting a bayonet.
--[X] The weapon should have a magazine capacity of at least 10 rounds.
--[X] The weapon should have an integral rifle grenade adapter.
--[X] The weapon should be either select fire or semi-automatic.
Adhoc vote count started by Michael Lewis on Dec 13, 2018 at 9:48 AM, finished with 29 posts and 6 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Michael Lewis on Dec 13, 2018 at 3:05 PM, finished with 36 posts and 12 votes.
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Last edited:
[X] plan import ammo presses 3
-[X] Use a 6.5 Irromine cartridge
-[X] The gun should be able to fire automatically or in single shots
-[X] The gun should charge from a magazine
-[X] The gun should fire from a closed bolt
-[X] The gun should weigh under 5kg dry and clean, and 5.5kg wet.
-[X] The gun should have a full forestock for mounting a bipod on and for bayonet with
-[X] The gun should have an integral rifle grenade spigot
-[X] The gun should be able to mount a bayonet without interrupting the site picture.
-[X] The gun should have an ambidextrous charging handle
-[X] The gun should eject or deflect cases either down or have the ejection direction able to be changed at an armorer discretion.
-[X] The gun should have at least a 45cm barrel and no more than a 60cm barrel.
 
[X] plan import ammo presses 3
Gib me that 6.5mm goodness!
 
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[X] plan import ammo presses 3
I like the changes so I'm going for this. More depth and direction for the plan.
 
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