[X] Plan Mines & Mortars
Situation Foxtrot (SAO/Foxhole) [COMPLETE]
- Thread starter 7734
- Start date
- Crossover
Some Weapons Range Comparisons (Artillery and Vehicle Weapons To Date, ch4)
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Unlike previous SWRC posts, this will not cover the entire suite of weapons available to both factions. Due to changes since the Beta Test, artillery has a notably higher skill and range ceiling, which artillery units must discover using the tried and true methods of trial and error.
Artillery does not respect the same rules as sidearms. Instead, many guns have different ranges: a minimum range for indirect fire weapons, a system assist range, an effective range determined by what point dispersion becomes problematic, and then a maximum observed range. Note there is no ballistic limit on artillery shells: they fly until they hit the ground. In addition, an average dispersion will be included for some ranges. Some vehicles with artillery-class weapons will be included (unlocked vehicles to date with 30mm or larger armaments) while some will not be included.
For discussion and comparison, a No2 Loughcaster has a 40m system assist, 100m effective range, and 150m ballistic limit.
First up is the lightest gun in this list: the Colonial's Daucas isg.III Mounted Infantry Support Gun. Mounted off a tripod like a machine gun or other heavy weapon, it services as a respectable demolitions piece and reasonable anti-tank piece in a pinch versus light armor. Firing 30mm shells, it has no minimum range. System Assist extends to 40m, same as many rifles, and the effective range is widely considered to be 120m due to the short-burn tracer on the 30mm round. Maximum observed range is 350m due to the tripod's inability to elevate the gun over 20 degrees, but system autolevel means that getting a more extreme angle of fire is not available at this time. It is theorized to have further maximum range when mounted on the more adaptable pintle mount of a Niska, Javelin, or Hopolite. At service ranges of 120m, the gun is observed to have aproximately 1.2m of horizontal dispersion and 5m of vertical dispersion.
Next up is the much-beloved Balfour Wolfhound Field Gun. Chambered in 40mm, it is a fairly light push-gun with a conical flash-hider, and with a limber set to hold either one or two boxes of shells as internal inventory, as well as a tow hook. Note the gun cannot be towed when the second box is filled with shells, or if there is a round in the chamber. The gun has approximately 30 degrees of on-carriage traverse before the limber needs to be repositioned, and a crew of two is needed for all operation of the gun: a primary mover/loader, and a gunner. At standard, it has no minimum range as it is a direct-fire gun, a 35m System Assist range, and an effective range of 175m as determined by dispersion: shell tracers will burn until end of flight and remain visible for 2s. Effective range is determined by dispersion, with fall of shot landing within a circle of 5m from the aim point at that range, which is becoming the Warden Standard in terms of acceptable dispersion to allow hits on a single Tier 2 bunker garrison. Maximum range observed is 4,500m according to statistical, but at this range the fall of shot is entirely outside of draw distance and more critically shells are falling in an area of 131m radius from aim point, with additional dispersion and drift from aim point due to wind.
Following closely behind is the far-less loved O'Brien V.101 Freemen and its Balfour Beauceron 40mm cannon. Player studies and lore dives reveal the Beauceron to be a cut-down and modified Wolfhound cannon, which does away with the flash-hider and reconfigures the gun's recoil hydrosprings and controls to allow for same-side loading and firing. While Freemen commanders may resent the heavy shells they handle due to the single-operator control scheme and its tendency to beat its sights out of alignment, the gun does handle the Freemen's turret well enough and does not have negative interactions with the vehicle- although drivers request not to fire over 45 degrees from centerline during driving, as the recoil impulse makes the front wheels loose traction. At standard, it has a minimum range of 3m due to gun depression, and a 35m system assist range. Standard range is 135m to achieve Warden Standard Accuracy, with the gun loosing some fairly significant precision due to the modifications needed to cram it in a turret. Maximum range is 3,875m, with a calculated dispersion maximum of 72m from aim point. Cavalry gunners are suggested to re-sight their guns regularly, with prejudice, and at any opportunity. If ammunition is unavailable, a Blakerow can be crammed into the breech of the gun with the back open, pressed against the bottom of the gun, and fired as a reasonably close facsimile for purposes of rectifying gross alignment issues.
Continuing along is the Cremari Mortar, a 60mm man-portable mortar. Used by both sides in the war, it offers one of the most frustratingly complex modes of operation, with projectile landing being based both on tube angle and a simple vent-cover mechanism to control muzzle velocity. This makes determining the firing procedure for it incredibly painful, as unlocking the velocity control system automatically locks out System Assist. Combined with the absolutely primitive built-in angle detection system, operating in manual is a pain to end all pains. However, it is also the weapon with the most variety in shell type. All tests to date have been done with the High Explosive shell, but Shrapnel and Flare shells have different characteristics. Operating normally, at minimum power and 25% muzzle velocity, under System Assist completely, the range is from 25m to 80m. However, System Assist is the mortar operating at 25% maximum muzzle velocity. At 50% muzzle velocity, the gun's minimum range extends to 50m, and the maximum range extends to a whopping 270m. However, the dispersion also increases, from 8m from aim point at maximum to 14m of aim point at maximum. At 75% muzzle velocity, the gun's minimum range extends to 80m- the maximum range under system assist!- and the maximum range becomes 350m. However, this comes once again at the cost of shell dispersion issue: shells now scatter up to 24m from their aim point. For a mortar bomb with a 5m effective radius generally fired at a target that is 9m by 9m, that is a problem. Maximum muzzle velocity can allow the Cremari to reach out to 675m, with a 160m minimum range, and a dispersion of 32m from aim point. No devised test data has been published by 58e Intelligence on other shell types yet, although it is confirmed that Shrapnel bombs tend to have slightly wider dispersion, and Flare bombs have a set 6-second timer before parachute deployment that limits maximum range no matter muzzle velocity setting.
Vehicles utilizing the Cremari Mortar in assorted variants, such as the HH-8 Peltast Mortar Carrier and Devit-Cain Mortar Tank, are suspected to have alternate guns much like the Balfour Beauceron versus the parent Balfour Wolfhound. Unfortunately, neither vehicle has been unlocked or captured for substantive testing. In addition, Warden-built Cremari mortars have a more accurate angle gauge, versus Colonial-built Cremanis having a folding monopod under the barrel to steady the tube with.
Further information will be published as war equipment becomes available.
Artillery does not respect the same rules as sidearms. Instead, many guns have different ranges: a minimum range for indirect fire weapons, a system assist range, an effective range determined by what point dispersion becomes problematic, and then a maximum observed range. Note there is no ballistic limit on artillery shells: they fly until they hit the ground. In addition, an average dispersion will be included for some ranges. Some vehicles with artillery-class weapons will be included (unlocked vehicles to date with 30mm or larger armaments) while some will not be included.
For discussion and comparison, a No2 Loughcaster has a 40m system assist, 100m effective range, and 150m ballistic limit.
First up is the lightest gun in this list: the Colonial's Daucas isg.III Mounted Infantry Support Gun. Mounted off a tripod like a machine gun or other heavy weapon, it services as a respectable demolitions piece and reasonable anti-tank piece in a pinch versus light armor. Firing 30mm shells, it has no minimum range. System Assist extends to 40m, same as many rifles, and the effective range is widely considered to be 120m due to the short-burn tracer on the 30mm round. Maximum observed range is 350m due to the tripod's inability to elevate the gun over 20 degrees, but system autolevel means that getting a more extreme angle of fire is not available at this time. It is theorized to have further maximum range when mounted on the more adaptable pintle mount of a Niska, Javelin, or Hopolite. At service ranges of 120m, the gun is observed to have aproximately 1.2m of horizontal dispersion and 5m of vertical dispersion.
Next up is the much-beloved Balfour Wolfhound Field Gun. Chambered in 40mm, it is a fairly light push-gun with a conical flash-hider, and with a limber set to hold either one or two boxes of shells as internal inventory, as well as a tow hook. Note the gun cannot be towed when the second box is filled with shells, or if there is a round in the chamber. The gun has approximately 30 degrees of on-carriage traverse before the limber needs to be repositioned, and a crew of two is needed for all operation of the gun: a primary mover/loader, and a gunner. At standard, it has no minimum range as it is a direct-fire gun, a 35m System Assist range, and an effective range of 175m as determined by dispersion: shell tracers will burn until end of flight and remain visible for 2s. Effective range is determined by dispersion, with fall of shot landing within a circle of 5m from the aim point at that range, which is becoming the Warden Standard in terms of acceptable dispersion to allow hits on a single Tier 2 bunker garrison. Maximum range observed is 4,500m according to statistical, but at this range the fall of shot is entirely outside of draw distance and more critically shells are falling in an area of 131m radius from aim point, with additional dispersion and drift from aim point due to wind.
Following closely behind is the far-less loved O'Brien V.101 Freemen and its Balfour Beauceron 40mm cannon. Player studies and lore dives reveal the Beauceron to be a cut-down and modified Wolfhound cannon, which does away with the flash-hider and reconfigures the gun's recoil hydrosprings and controls to allow for same-side loading and firing. While Freemen commanders may resent the heavy shells they handle due to the single-operator control scheme and its tendency to beat its sights out of alignment, the gun does handle the Freemen's turret well enough and does not have negative interactions with the vehicle- although drivers request not to fire over 45 degrees from centerline during driving, as the recoil impulse makes the front wheels loose traction. At standard, it has a minimum range of 3m due to gun depression, and a 35m system assist range. Standard range is 135m to achieve Warden Standard Accuracy, with the gun loosing some fairly significant precision due to the modifications needed to cram it in a turret. Maximum range is 3,875m, with a calculated dispersion maximum of 72m from aim point. Cavalry gunners are suggested to re-sight their guns regularly, with prejudice, and at any opportunity. If ammunition is unavailable, a Blakerow can be crammed into the breech of the gun with the back open, pressed against the bottom of the gun, and fired as a reasonably close facsimile for purposes of rectifying gross alignment issues.
Continuing along is the Cremari Mortar, a 60mm man-portable mortar. Used by both sides in the war, it offers one of the most frustratingly complex modes of operation, with projectile landing being based both on tube angle and a simple vent-cover mechanism to control muzzle velocity. This makes determining the firing procedure for it incredibly painful, as unlocking the velocity control system automatically locks out System Assist. Combined with the absolutely primitive built-in angle detection system, operating in manual is a pain to end all pains. However, it is also the weapon with the most variety in shell type. All tests to date have been done with the High Explosive shell, but Shrapnel and Flare shells have different characteristics. Operating normally, at minimum power and 25% muzzle velocity, under System Assist completely, the range is from 25m to 80m. However, System Assist is the mortar operating at 25% maximum muzzle velocity. At 50% muzzle velocity, the gun's minimum range extends to 50m, and the maximum range extends to a whopping 270m. However, the dispersion also increases, from 8m from aim point at maximum to 14m of aim point at maximum. At 75% muzzle velocity, the gun's minimum range extends to 80m- the maximum range under system assist!- and the maximum range becomes 350m. However, this comes once again at the cost of shell dispersion issue: shells now scatter up to 24m from their aim point. For a mortar bomb with a 5m effective radius generally fired at a target that is 9m by 9m, that is a problem. Maximum muzzle velocity can allow the Cremari to reach out to 675m, with a 160m minimum range, and a dispersion of 32m from aim point. No devised test data has been published by 58e Intelligence on other shell types yet, although it is confirmed that Shrapnel bombs tend to have slightly wider dispersion, and Flare bombs have a set 6-second timer before parachute deployment that limits maximum range no matter muzzle velocity setting.
Vehicles utilizing the Cremari Mortar in assorted variants, such as the HH-8 Peltast Mortar Carrier and Devit-Cain Mortar Tank, are suspected to have alternate guns much like the Balfour Beauceron versus the parent Balfour Wolfhound. Unfortunately, neither vehicle has been unlocked or captured for substantive testing. In addition, Warden-built Cremari mortars have a more accurate angle gauge, versus Colonial-built Cremanis having a folding monopod under the barrel to steady the tube with.
Further information will be published as war equipment becomes available.
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The Current State of Rail Transit
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
So these pictures came from @Jakub1228 who was at some point in what I can only assume was a Castle Brian somewhere in Czechia, and are a very good visual indicator for how you are currently making rail stuff work. I know I said "just pull the wheels off a Dunne" but I think y'all may not have realized how literal I was being.
These aren't exactly what your current train logistics are like, but I think they're close enough you get the feel for it. Plus, they're cool old stuff that's in-theme for things!
edit: also get more people to vote plz
These aren't exactly what your current train logistics are like, but I think they're close enough you get the feel for it. Plus, they're cool old stuff that's in-theme for things!
edit: also get more people to vote plz
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7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
- Location
- UTC -6
So we don't lose Yellow grade personnel as quickly.
I think Tab always wants more votes, so I'll add one
[X] Plan Tug on Plot Thread
-[X] Expand your bunker base with additional infrastructure to sustain larger troop numbers.
-[X] Go and recruit more personnel
--[X] Selective recruitment: Look for people who aren't clueless. The Logistics Union has a lot of folks. (Recruits 3d10+3 Green personnel)
-[X] Extra work shifts
--[X] More Mines: Get everyone to do more rounds on the component mines and oil wells. Components mean R-mats, R-mats mean flatbeds, and more importantly: trains (Begins work on GWR Request)
-[X] Find a way to get your guys some quality of life upgrades so things suck less out here.
-[X] Go talk to someone specific/Meet a Specific Regiment
--[X] Whoever the hell Kirito is, with 26e Commandos
I have misgivings about not getting a planning boost in. We need more peeps swinging shovels and hammering out trucks tho. And some niceties so our new minions don't jump ship as quickly :|
And if Asuna is going to run off to help Kirito I would like some advance warning.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Because one: greens absorb the retirement rolls before higher ranks do and two: more peoples means more officers. If that's too much for people though I can make a new plan that grabs yellows instead and drops mortars since we definitely won't have the manpower for them then, instead focusing on finishing that railway.
EDIT: Though I will point out that the mortars would take up a lot less manpower than the 40mms and that trying to man them all is a fools errand anyway. 72 billets in maximum rush time is never happening, but the spare guns are always nice to have even if it means a bunch are going to sit idle.
[] Plan Mines & Mines
-[X] Expand your bunker base with additional infrastructure to sustain larger troop numbers.
-[X] Go and recruit more personnel
--[X] Picky recruitment: Get people who are at least as skilled as you are! (Recruits 2d10+2 Yellow personnel)
-[X] Extra work shifts
--[X] More Mines: Get everyone to do more rounds on the component mines and oil wells. Components mean R-mats, R-mats mean flatbeds, and more importantly: trains (Begins work on GWR Request)
-[X] Requisition Material
--[X] Base Support: More concrete, more faster.
-[X] Go talk to someone specific/Meet a Specific Regiment
--[X] See Takamachi about the "new functionality" of the Engineering Centers.
---[X] Go alone- you know she'll be forward, but it can't be that bad.
[X] Plan Mines & Mortars
-[X] Expand your bunker base with additional infrastructure to sustain larger troop numbers.
-[X] Go and recruit more personnel
--[X] Selective recruitment: Look for people who aren't clueless. The Logistics Union has a lot of folks. (Recruits 3d10+3 Green personnel)
-[X] Extra work shifts
--[X] More Mines: Get everyone to do more rounds on the component mines and oil wells. Components mean R-mats, R-mats mean flatbeds, and more importantly: trains (Begins work on GWR Request)
-[X] Find a, uh, techmaid, and get some prototype kits by hook or by crook.
--[X] Cremani Mortar: a 60mm field mortar, man portable and heavy enough to throw out your back with. Theoretically there's a uniform to make this less ass...
-[X] Go talk to someone specific/Meet a Specific Regiment
--[X] See Takamachi about the "new functionality" of the Engineering Centers.
---[X] Go alone- you know she'll be forward, but it can't be that bad.
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Legion0047
Retired Shadowrunner.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- God Emperor
[X] Plan Mines & Mortars
Well, I like that one, too... but having forgotten that this isn't approval voting, not enough to vote for it.
[X] Plan Preparing for the Next Brawl, mining edition
[X] Plan Tug on Plot Thread
And, because I suppose finding out what Her Lewdness wants, but I kinda want Orr not to fall into *that* lewdpile, I present
[X] Plan Mines & Mines, anti-lewd edition
-[X] Expand your bunker base with additional infrastructure to sustain larger troop numbers.
-[X] Go and recruit more personnel
--[X] Picky recruitment: Get people who are at least as skilled as you are! (Recruits 2d10+2 Yellow personnel)
-[X] Extra work shifts
--[X] More Mines: Get everyone to do more rounds on the component mines and oil wells. Components mean R-mats, R-mats mean flatbeds, and more importantly: trains (Begins work on GWR Request)
-[X] Requisition Material
--[X] Base Support: More concrete, more faster.
-[X] Go talk to someone specific/Meet a Specific Regiment
--[X] See Takamachi about the "new functionality" of the Engineering Centers.
--[X] Take Silica- You'll want a driver to get to Great Warden Dam without falling asleep, and you don't trust Takamachi's lewdness.
[X] Plan Preparing for the Next Brawl, mining edition
And, because I suppose finding out what Her Lewdness wants, but I kinda want Orr not to fall into *that* lewdpile, I present
[X] Plan Mines & Mines, anti-lewd edition
-[X] Expand your bunker base with additional infrastructure to sustain larger troop numbers.
-[X] Go and recruit more personnel
--[X] Picky recruitment: Get people who are at least as skilled as you are! (Recruits 2d10+2 Yellow personnel)
-[X] Extra work shifts
--[X] More Mines: Get everyone to do more rounds on the component mines and oil wells. Components mean R-mats, R-mats mean flatbeds, and more importantly: trains (Begins work on GWR Request)
-[X] Requisition Material
--[X] Base Support: More concrete, more faster.
-[X] Go talk to someone specific/Meet a Specific Regiment
--[X] See Takamachi about the "new functionality" of the Engineering Centers.
--[X] Take Silica- You'll want a driver to get to Great Warden Dam without falling asleep, and you don't trust Takamachi's lewdness.
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7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
You get one vote, gentlemen, which means one plan. De-select the other if you don't mind.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Yes, because this is three operations in a trench coat. Hooker might have overall command, but he can't control three fronts without Obs. post radios that need a lot of time to tech. Tech limitations inform command decisions: a tale as old as time.
Decim
On again, off again lurker.
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
Correct, but it's still worth putting our all into preparing because weather is a fickle beast and Hooker could choose to kick off the offensive as soon as the weather clears. I'm not happy about the uncertainty. We might get one turn, or we might get up to half a dozen turns while the winter passes.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Winter, mechanically, is when I double the chance of Blizzards. That means you need 8+ to avoid them on the weather roll, and severity brackets are doubled so snowstorms are liable to get worse. Winter lasts 13 turns north of Sunhaven, and 9 turns south of The Bulwark, and summer is reversed.
Decim
On again, off again lurker.
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
So a 30% chance on any turn that the weather is clear enough to maybe launch an attack. Of course, the problem is, will the harbors also unfreeze enough for that, which is a much harder ask. Or at least, that's the case IRL. Once things freeze over, they tend to stay frozen over.
The question I have for you, is how much of a risk are we at for Hooker pulling, well, a Hooker and attacking during the winter regardless of weather? I want a better estimate of how much time we have to get our affairs in order.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
I want you to consider that literally the only reason he didn't pull the trigger last turn was the fact he physically could not get his naval assets into position before the Céline Dion started playing and Jack falls off the door. Hooker has no brakes and wants to win the game as fast as possible: given any opportunity, presume he has a general offensive in planning or has already engaged in such. If I was writing this more traditionally, I'd call him the model of a Byronic anti-hero: as it is, though, he's not had enough time in the limelight to say that.
Decim
On again, off again lurker.
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
Okay, that's answers the question of Hooker's temperament, but not really what I was looking for. I should've been more careful in phrasing my question. So let's try this again. Do we, in-character, know exactly what the typical weather patterns are here? That seems to be the deciding factor here. Whether or not the weather and the river itself are free and clear for naval operations. Additionally, do we know if its possible for the river to unfreeze now that it has frozen?
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Woman I have no idea what next turn's weather is gonna be like, much less Orr. The ice floes are gonna move around the Sea of Rime (as the name suggests) and there's even odds that Hooker will find a chance to invade, though. That being said, you do know it's possible for the river to unfreeze in limited areas, since the icebergs are mostly crap that washes out of the Austriaca Reservoir in Howl County and just flow downstream. There's definitely a lot of questions flying around: the sort of questions that you'd need 58 Intelligence to help answer. This is the first Fall Season the game's gone through: nobody knows things, they just guess. Sometimes they guess right, sometimes not.