- Location
- United States
You don't want underbite Intermarium and Grand Duke Radziwiłł?
Si Deus Nobiscum: A Polish-Lithuanian Scion Quest
- Thread starter Rolman
- Start date
- Mature Historic
Duke William of
I really need to finish my quests. :V
- Pronouns
- He/Him
SWEET HOME HAPSBURG
SOON
- Location
- United States
impotent*
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
Make Lithuania great again!
Indeed, while I was reading about the commonwealth I was surprised to see the Lithuanian language not being one of the official languages.
Sertorius on languages used in the PLC
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
Lithuanian nobility by this time had long been Ruthenised. It was the dominant language and culture in their giant country, therefore it quickly gained prominence among the elites. Now Ruthenian is being gradually replaced by Polish.
Fun fact: did you know, that at the Court in the Kremlin and among the nobles and boyars of Muscovy the Polish language was widespread? It was widely considered the language of educated nobility, because all the Western innovations, ideas and goods came there via the Commonwealth, since they did not have a port on the Baltic Sea. Therefore up until the end of the XVII century knowledge of Polish was considered a sign of good education in Muscovy.
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- Location
- United States
I ain't no Sertorius but I'm under the impression that Radziwills are quite Polonized (and imminently turning Calvinist) and are moreso interested in Lithuanian fiefdoms -- the Grand Duchy and whatnot -- way more than they are interested in Lithuanians or being Lithuanian. Pre-nationhood blah blah. The mindset is still very feudal, but with added Renaissance scruples about the res publica and whatnot. However, Radziwillowie did sponsor Lithuanian-language schools and Bible publications as a part of that aforementioned Calvinism, if I'm not wrong.
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Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
The Union of Lublin was exactly that.
When the Lithuanian delegation became inflexible during the negotiations (mainly more distinct freedoms for the GDL like in the good old days of personal union, plus the Radziwiłłs and other powerful families were not thrilled that the Lithuanian nobility will be getting more of the privileges of their Polish counterparts, thus weakening their grip) and finally left the talks altogether, king Sigismund II Augustus punished them by incorporating Ukraine and Podlasie into the Kingdom of Poland directly. This forced them to return to the table, because if they didn't, the rest of Lithuania would be incorporated as well. Thus they made concessions and finally signed the Union, but they lost on the deal, since the lands taken away would remain part of the Crown due to their stubborn refusal. This was also the main event that would one day give birth to Ukraine and Belarus as separate countries.
Fun fact: the last ruler of Poland and the GDL to know the Lithuanian language was king Alexander Jagiellon (1461–1506).
Correct, they and the other magnates became Polonised fairly quickly, but always maintained a proud separate Lithuanian identity. As for schools, it's part of the Reformation idea of preaching the Good Word in national languages, therefore they taught in whatever tongue the locals understood. Plus they only really cared about their own lands and power, afraid that the Union might weaken them.
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Yeah our father and the "Black" line do become calvanits. I think the Blacks also convert to catholicism later on for some reason. Either way that's just a personal thought of mine to stem the tide of Polanization and polish dominance that's happening. I know our father was against the commonwealth (Union of Lublin) because he wanted Lithuanian sovereignty.
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- Location
- United States
Yeah, I think any major historical deviations will be pertaining to a) Habsburgs b) Calvinism and its spread c) the status of the Grand Duchy, just by virtue of your family's origins and interests. Nothing set in stone of course -- that's where all the players come in.
- Location
- Europe
To what end exactly would be be trying to stem the tide of Polanization?
Well to my rudimentary knowledge Poland was the dominant partner of the two from the beginning and. Lithuania is essentially a little brother to their Polish counterparts. In terms of how that effects our family interest, we are a part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and as it loses prominence/influence so do its nobles.
- Location
- United States
Again, I would reckon that this smells too much of modern nationalism and wouldn't occur to them. Again, it's all quite feudal-minded, so they would see themselves as Lithuanian lords but not really as Lithuanians, you see? Litvan blood, for sure, but Polish/Ruskaja spoken at home and reflected in culture and dress -- above all else lords of the Grand Duchy, vassals of the Grand Duke, and followers of the Grand Duchy's laws. That is to say -- not the Kingdom of Poland's. Again, though, Poles/Ukrainians/others more knowledgeable should check me on this. The legal-privilege side of the PLC is really arcane to me and it surely will be to you, too.
Sertorius
Rebellious Legate
- Location
- Roma Invicta
Correct. No nationalism, no higher thought. We are simply Lithuanians, not Poles in a political sense. Nothing to do with how we speak at home, because the language and culture of nobility of the PLC is Polish and that will not change, regardless of region. It's simply starting to replace the traditional Ruthenian noble culture.
- Location
- United States
I mean it's worth noting that, like, 15th century Burgundy made a bit of a conscious effort to create a Burgundian identity, but that was without the Poland-Lithuania political dualism thing to worry about. Again, as Sertorius noted, Lithuanian nobility is pretty Polish culturally at this point, anyway, with a gradient of Ruthenian-ness to accept or reject (one of the Mikołaj's, forget which, never really learned Ruskaja while the other did, for example).
Chargen III. June 1551-June 1565. Dubinki Castle, Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
- Location
- United States
♫
You were born safe from rain and the outside world alike under the high ceilings and solid walls of Dubinki Castle, the seat of your father Prince Mikołaj Radziwiłł Rudy and one of the finest in the Union. Some say it is a suitable competitor even to the Royal Palace itself. Your brothers Mikołaj, sometimes called Septimus, and Krzysztof were six and five years older than you, respectively. Despite your age gap, though, they were your only surviving siblings, and a close bond formed between the three of you. Your father was away from the family often, or you otherwise moved away from Dubinki for weeks or months at a time, following him from position to position across Lithuania and Poland.Your mother died shortly after you were born; your mothers became the wetnurses and maids early.* You can scarcely remember her face. You would come to learn that her and your father would scream and scream and scream at one another in the years before your birth. Who knows how you managed to come about in a relationship so acrimonious. So, with that in mind, ignorance perhaps was bliss, though you always felt a gentle gnawing in you. Life was good at Dubinki, wandering its halls and estates, being waited on hand and foot by the servants, and enjoying the finest clothes and toys from a young age.
You were named…
[] Jerzy, Georgius.
Honoring your paternal grandfather.
[] Jan, Ioannes.
Honoring both your late great-uncle and maternal grandfather.
[] Wojciech, Adalbertus.
Honoring another deceased great-uncle.
[] Stanisław, Stanislaus.
In reference to a distant ancestor.
[] Write-in.
"Albrecht," Albertus, is another likely and rational one, for example. Emphasis on rational, though, please, and remember to Polonize!
The earliest years were spent in play. In courtyards, in forests under the watchful eye of mounted men, up and down the stairs and halls of Dubinki.
When you were eight, a vicious little page from a neighboring estate a few years older lured you under some false pretense into a utility hallway, narrow and covered in crude plaster deep in the castle's bowels. There, with a smile on his face, he shook you down for a handful of coins and beat you for fun. A stony fist sent you reeling to the dirt floor on your back.
You stared at the ceiling and…
[] Felt the rage flow through you. A desire to not let it happen again. You asked for longsword lessons the next day.
A spiking of the yellow bile in you. Choleric. A burning flash, a grimacing face, laughing life and bleeding cuts. Passion, strong feelings, and ambition. Volatile but striving.
[] Noticed the dust caught in the sunlight in a high window above, swirling beautifully close to the wood-beamed ceiling.
Through your throbbing face and lip, you felt the God the friars told you of for the first time. Or a sense of beauty more in the abstract? Typically phlegmatic. A kind of reservation, a fatalism; however, it exists in tandem with a strong morality and self-basis.
[] Wondered how he dared to beat up a Radziwiłł.
A melancholic cast takes you. Thoughtful and full of insight – wise, even – but prone to pessimism, skullduggery, godlessness, and the vices.
[] Resolved to make up some nasty rumors and tell your friends to spread them.
He has it coming, after all. A rush of blood as you talk, smile, laugh, scheme. Charisma goes both ways: a man who understands himself very often understands others, a well-founded self-confidence can cut like a knife through a room. Let your words return the boy's blows.
Indeed, it was tough without Father and Mother. Loneliness struck -- Little Mikołaj left for his schooling before you were ten, and Krzysztof not long after. Father became more and more of an abstraction as he prayed, fought, and governed, far from Dubinki's great halls.
You found a mother in…
[] Tatjana, the Ruskaja nanny.
Not at all like the ladies-in-waiting. An earthy woman who speaks Polish with a strong accent; on her lap, you'd develop an imagination and conscience from Biblical allegories and Ruthenian folktales – as well as a soft spot for the common folk. Might pick up some peasant-woman religiosity. You'd even speak Ruskaja like a native, though the tutors will certainly not enjoy the rustic accent. The more uptight men don't like such a close relationship with a common servant, but your father doesn't seem to particularly mind and even the stiffest cavalrymen crack a smile at her care for you.
[] Lady Zofia Koła, maid of honor.
A distant relative of your paternal grandmother, this kinswoman really should be more of an older sister figure under a more normal dynamic. She's older than brother Mikołaj, sure, but not by much. Hanging around Lady Koła will mean a certain gaining of the social hyperawareness and harshly-trained etiquette found in a noble teenage girl, but she sadly can't speak much on life outside garden walls and ballrooms. Not to mention that her training with the ladies of Dubinki Castle will surely conclude sometime soon.
[] Nobody.
There aren't very many women here besides the revolving door of maids of honor and domestics. An early childhood surrounded by powerful and/or military men may inflict a great amount of subconscious injury upon you, but such an onslaught of masculine energy will surely lead to great increases in the choleric and sanguine humors. Extroverted – drunken? Self-assured – promiscuous? Daring – violent? Calloused strength on a shaky foundation.
And for a father there was…
[] Master Kacper Farensbach, your general tutor.
Without a doubt the smartest and perhaps kindest man in the castle, the thoughtful Livonian would've become a priest if it wasn't for 'I'd-rather-not-talk-about-that,' but is putting his training in Rome and Paris to good use with you and your elder brothers. With infinite patience and a knack for teaching, he is slowly preparing you for real school. He may not have *all* the answers, but he's the best you've got. Hanging around him may instill some pensiveness or, worse yet, meekness, but you will be an awfully well-read and curious lad. Will learn decent French and maybe even some German from additional lessons and informal tutoring.
[] Sir Andrzej Marszowski, your physical trainer.
Whether riding, dueling with longsword or rapier, or dancing a galliarda, you'd always marvel at the deftness of Sir Marszowski's movements, how he made them look effortless. Afterwards, barely breathless, he'd swagger about and crack jokes with his wrist on the pommel of his sword. You wanted to be like that. Fighting, riding, shooting, dancing, you just cannot sit still! This will cultivate physical strength and skill, and you can expect to do better whenever and wherever the body gets involved. You may also turn out to be a little bit of a showman, or at least picking up some of the knight's charismatic mannerisms.
[] Sir Konrad Szygrod, Dubinki's castellan.
Not to be confused with senatorial castellans; this is just the majordomo. He is very phlegmatic, like the stars call for you. This means that he is, frankly, a bit boring. But level-headed, a workhorse, and a great listener. He would listen, listen, listen -- whether to you or to an aide under him -- exhale, crease his brow, and say something great. A deliberate man with a deliberate job, not particularly kind or cruel, a balanced man and a balancing force. At his side, you may never quite learn how to live, but you'll certainly understand the harmony one can find in an efficiently-run estate. Those ideas can be expanded upon to greater things with ease, after all.
When you were nine, the Latin lessons began to get serious. Master Farensbach was kind and skilled, but you struggled at first. When you at last began to make breakthroughs, you rose from the table and jumped for joy. Though unbecoming of a young gentleman and liable for a dressing-down, the tutor only smiled and said:
[] "Quick-witted lad!"
Maybe he's right. Regardless, this kind of talk instills a certain egoism and -tism, which is a double-edged sword.
[] "Hardworking lad!"
A bit more of a level-headed worldview, and it fosters an understanding for diligence. May make you a bit meek and unsure of yourself, though.
You never forgot about that. Or your declensions, for that matter.
Then, when you were twelve, something strange happened. Your father had changed slowly but surely over the past few years, praying, reading, and drinking more. Dwelling, they said, on his many battles and his treatment of your late mother. One day he took you by the hand to the castle's chapel and you were shocked to be met with bare white walls, the once icon-covered and gilded dressing stripped. The ceilings seemed higher now and a plain, dark-stained wooden cross stared down at you, having replaced a painted and suffering Christ. Your father, the prince, sat you down next to him in a pew and talked himself even redder than usual, passion in his eyes. You'd have felt a creeping nervousness if he wasn't so deeply happy.
He filled your ears with talk nothing like you'd heard before from the friars. He spoke at length of divine plans conceived before one's very birth, of the elected and the damned. "The kindest man without the Lord in his heart will never see heaven, little one," he said, "for his kindness makes little difference. Evil lives within all our hearts, the mind sins a million times a day – only through God alone can one have any hope. All has been planned out."
You knew then that he truly believed what he said but, with hindsight, secularization likely didn't seem all that bad for the estates, either. Regardless of reasoning, you found the sermons and services much less magical. No more Latin, no more fanfare, the pastors fixated on Hell, burning, and most importantly: you. Performance, ritual, alms and indulgences – though you scarcely knew what exactly these things were – did not cut it, they said, Heaven was only through the faith in one's heart, God's laws found only in His Book. Discipline, diligence, and humility would be what one needs. And an understanding of fate, of a plan, to know that one is here for a reason, and to do certain things. "No transactions, no compromises, a beggar does not barter!" cried one orator.
And who is Ioannes Calvinus? How did you feel about all this, anyways?
[] Whatever.
Do we not all worship the same God, do we not follow the same Commandments and look to the same Son for salvation? All this dogmatic stuff makes your head spin. You will go through the motions, surely, but it all seems like quite a lot. The papists seem like a lot, too. An irreligious, perhaps even impious or skeptical streak is beginning to appear.
[] Praise God!
Pray and work. Work on praying. Praying is your work; pray it works. We will never know truly until the soul departs the body, but faith alone will be what saves you. No flashy crucifixes or Pharisee boasting can save a damned man. Your devotion could deepen, maintain, or lessen with age; what will stick, though, is a notion of toiling against the forces of the world and a sense of fate.
[] You missed Father Janusz.
One isn't exactly inspired to virtuous acts by the idea of predestination. Not to mention, these sermons! Death, death, death, sin, sin, sin, Hell, Hell, Hell. God's world is beautiful out there! And we are all sinners, yes, but many are truly trying their hardest. It's unclear at this point whether you're sympathetic to Catholicism, repelled by Calvinism, or are just simply too choleric-sanguine to sit through all this. An implicit optimism to your thinking, too.
The following year, and you knew it was coming but that made it no easier, was when you were to be sent away to continue your education elsewhere. The fate that had befallen your brothers when you were young had at last reached you, too. Fear and anticipation. It was just before your fouteenth birthday. It was awfully scary, but Mikołaj already fought a battle against the Muscovites in January alongside Father! You reckoned it was time for some battling of your own.
You were sent to…
[] The Royal Court as a page, while attending higher classes at the Collegium Maius in Krakow.
In terms of "seeing the world," this would give you the least of it. But the Collegium Maius is on par with Charles University in Prague, they say, and the insight and connections gained from such proximity to the King and his courtiers would perhaps prove invaluable.
[] The Saxon court, then onwards to the University of Wittenberg.
Although Lutherans, this is the best that could be done with Vienna off-limits. "Full of Jesuits," laughed your father. The purpose of serving in a German court is for the sake of the family, though you know this only to a dim extent at 13: with the Lithuanian nobility angling for the election of a Habsburg, an understanding of the Empire and of the German language is useful to Radziwiłł interests. Wittenberg, the home of Martin Luther, is a hotbed of Protestant theological debate and dissent, good for oratory and learning the scriptures alike. Humble compared to other universities on this list, though.
[] The French Court, with classes at the Collège Royal.
Where would one rather be than Paris? Perhaps the finest court in Europe lies behind the Louvre's walls, and the city's universities provide varied and rigorous courses from some of the best minds on the continent. However, with your confession the way it is, they'll hardly tolerate you in that regard; a bit better than Vienna or someplace like Italy, but barely. The Sorbonne won't take you, and the Collège is said to be somewhat avant-garde in its curriculum. Very humanist and natural science-focused. Meanwhile, though the fighting between Huguenots and Catholics has waned by the time you're thirteen, tension on the streets is palpable and danger still exists.
A life outside Dubinki awaits!
[*Historical oversight on my part – Rudy's wife actually dies between the birth of Krzysztof and your character, with them having separated around the time of the former's birth. Therefore, I've taken some liberties to have a few more years' worth of toxicity (and life) for poor Katarzyna Tomicka to necessitate your coming into the world.]
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Astra Myst
Do you want a wish?
- Location
- Milky Way Galaxy
[X] I will die on this hill
-[X] Alicja, Alice
-[X] Wondered how he dared to beat up a Radziwiłł.
-[X] Lady Zofia Koła, maid of honor.
-[X] Sir Konrad Szygrod, Dubinki's castellan.
-[X] "Quick-witted lad!"
-[X] Whatever.
-[X] The French Court, with classes at the Collège Royal.
-[X] Alicja, Alice
-[X] Wondered how he dared to beat up a Radziwiłł.
-[X] Lady Zofia Koła, maid of honor.
-[X] Sir Konrad Szygrod, Dubinki's castellan.
-[X] "Quick-witted lad!"
-[X] Whatever.
-[X] The French Court, with classes at the Collège Royal.
Theaxofwar
Definitely not a Bunny Cat in disguise.
- Location
- Standing right behind you
[X] Plan SOS
- [X] Jerzy, Georgius
- [X] Noticed the dust caught in the sunlight in a high window above, swirling beautifully close to the wood-beamed ceiling.
- [X] Tatjana, the Ruskaja nanny
- [X] Master Kacper Farensbach, your general tutor
- [X] "Hardworking lad!"
- [X] You missed Father Janusz.
- [X] The French Court, with classes at the Collège Royal
This is my patented seven step plan to return to God's Grace.
- [X] Jerzy, Georgius
- [X] Noticed the dust caught in the sunlight in a high window above, swirling beautifully close to the wood-beamed ceiling.
- [X] Tatjana, the Ruskaja nanny
- [X] Master Kacper Farensbach, your general tutor
- [X] "Hardworking lad!"
- [X] You missed Father Janusz.
- [X] The French Court, with classes at the Collège Royal
This is my patented seven step plan to return to God's Grace.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] Whatever.
The TRUE option.
The TRUE option.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Jerzy, Georgius.
[X] Resolved to make up some nasty rumors and tell your friends to spread them.
[X] Lady Zofia Koła, maid of honor.
[X] Sir Konrad Szygrod, Dubinki's castellan.
[X] "Quick-witted lad!"
[X] You missed Father Janusz.
[X] The Royal Court as a page, while attending higher classes at the Collegium Maius in Krakow.
[X] Resolved to make up some nasty rumors and tell your friends to spread them.
[X] Lady Zofia Koła, maid of honor.
[X] Sir Konrad Szygrod, Dubinki's castellan.
[X] "Quick-witted lad!"
[X] You missed Father Janusz.
[X] The Royal Court as a page, while attending higher classes at the Collegium Maius in Krakow.
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- Location
- Watchung,New Jersey
[X] Jerzy, Georgius.
[X] Tatjana, the Ruskaja nanny.
[X] Resolved to make up some nasty rumors and tell your friends to spread them.
[X] Sir Konrad Szygrod, Dubinki's castellan.
[X] You missed Father Janusz.
[X] The Royal Court as a page, while attending higher classes at the Collegium Maius in Krakow.
[X] Tatjana, the Ruskaja nanny.
[X] Resolved to make up some nasty rumors and tell your friends to spread them.
[X] Sir Konrad Szygrod, Dubinki's castellan.
[X] You missed Father Janusz.
[X] The Royal Court as a page, while attending higher classes at the Collegium Maius in Krakow.
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