Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

The real trick to missile spam is to find 'cost effectivness'...

For an instance, if you got told that those 10 missiles you have cost $10 million all together and you fired them all off in one go and the enemy PDL stopped every single one, then you have just wasted $10 million.

But if you had 100 missiles that cost $10 million all together and you fired them all off in one go and only half of them made it through, regardless of the amount of damage they made, they would still be considered 'better' than the more expensive ones simply due to being able to fired cheaply enough to punch through.

Of course though, there is after all a couple of websites you can go on where commenting on the 'effectivness of lasers and missiles in space combat' can pretty much cause a flame war due to disagreements.

Basically those that 'vote' for lasers claim that 'lasers will always damage the missiles enough to mission kill them' while those that 'vote' for missiles claim that 'we can always spam enough of them to overwhelm your PDL or make them overheat'.

The only thing they both seem to agree on is that if you are to take either one to extreme, you cannot have both.

If you want to cram in missiles, you better remove laser coollant.

If you want to cram in lasers/turrets, you better remove missiles.
 
In this case, I think that a quantity over quality approach is better with the missile spam. From what it sounds like, apparently GARDIAN lasers are pretty good at picking off small amounts of Torpedoes fired at close range.

So what you do is fire an ungodly amount of missiles at your opponent, all with heavy payloads but comparatively inferior everything else. Sure, an unholy amount of them will get shot down, but only a handful need to get through to kill any size ship. Have them launched from Missile Frigates or something.

Every point defense system has its limits. It doesn't matter whether GARDIAN can shoot a missile down 100% of the time, there are limits to what it can do. For one, CIWS mounts take up space. They take up space that could have been used for a proper weapon mount, sensor mount, etc. That's just taking into account the weapon itself. Once you couple in the dedicated targeting computer, coolant system, and necessary power requirements, it starts taking up a considerable amount of room, and on a starship, that room is precious. Assuming that GARDIAN mounts are anything like modern laser mounts in size... referencing in size to a Cruiser, you'd be lucky to get 4 on one. Maybe 10 on a Dreadnought if you're taking point defense seriously.

Now, it takes time for a laser mount to target, aim, and fire long enough to cook off/disable incoming missiles. Let's say that it takes about 3 seconds to kill a missile, and let's give the laser a range of about 100 kilometers. To be generous.

Let's say the missiles are traveling at... oh, Mach 4, which is the standard speed for a Sidewinder missile. That's approximately 1.4 kilometers a second. Just for convenience, since I'm too lazy to grab my calculator, let's round that up to 2 kilometers a second, because I'm sure any missile the ME races use is faster than a puny Sidewinder.

Now, based on these assumptions, It will take these missiles 50 seconds to go from extreme PDS range to impact. That is more than enough time to shoot down a missile.

Now, if the 2 GARDIAN mounts that can be brought to bear can shoot down a missile every three seconds each, that's 2 missiles per 3 seconds.
That's approximately 33.3 missiles it can shoot down from when it can start shooting to when they start impacting the hull.

So assuming 4 GARDIAN mounts per Cruiser, with only 2 that can be brought to bear on any one incoming vector of attack, that means that if I fire, say, 40 missiles at the Cruiser, about 6 are getting through. They don't need to be too advanced, just pack a heavy punch.

All point defense systems can be overwhelmed, and unless GARDIANs are miraculous miniaturized devices that take up little to no room and can be slapped on ships in the dozens upon dozens, their overall effectiveness against missile spam isn't insurmountable.

Edit: Not trying to shit over laser weaponry here, it's pretty rad, but there are limits to what such a weapon is physically capable of, and defeating missile spam numbering in anything greater than triple digits is something that's only possible if your ship is literally made up of laser weapons.

Edit 2: Perhaps we could invent a missile that spews out it's own cloud of refractive particles, so it sort of carries with it its own anti-laser shield?
And with physics in space working as they do, as long as the missile doesn't gun its engine, it won't outrun the particles.
This could be an area where quality is better than quantity. The missile, once launched, does a massive burn to get up to significant speed, then cuts the engine and spews refractive dust everywhere in front of it, enough to tank GARDIAN shots for a sufficient amount of time. Then it impacts and kills the target.
Granted, this excludes any possibility of maneuvering en route to target, making it easier to dodge, but this won't be an option against ships like Dreadnoughts, which won't be able to get out of the way in time.
 
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They do mount Javelin on frigates.

Fighters are probably more cost efficient torpedo launching platforms.

Also, frigates are squshy against cruser class guns, fighters are at least harder to hit.

The frigates combat range is explicitly to close for cruiser weapons.

As for the Javelin?, yeah, I had completely forgotten about that.
 
Edit: Not trying to shit over laser weaponry here, it's pretty rad, but there are limits to what such a weapon is physically capable of, and defeating missile spam numbering in anything greater than triple digits is something that's only possible if your ship is literally made up of laser weapons.

Edit 2: Perhaps we could invent a missile that spews out it's own cloud of refractive particles, so it sort of carries with it its own anti-laser shield?
And with physics in space working as they do, as long as the missile doesn't gun its engine, it won't outrun the particles.
This could be an area where quality is better than quantity. The missile, once launched, does a massive burn to get up to significant speed, then cuts the engine and spews refractive dust everywhere in front of it, enough to tank GARDIAN shots for a sufficient amount of time. Then it impacts and kills the target.
Granted, this excludes any possibility of maneuvering en route to target, making it easier to dodge, but this won't be an option against ships like Dreadnoughts, which won't be able to get out of the way in time.

If I remember rightly, the idea of having 'missile spam' battleships being covered by 'PDL covered' battleships crops up in 'Banner of the Stars' which although is a pretty old anime, it does have some pretty neat concepts for space battleships, but that's mostly due to everyone being different nations and the war they are fighting in is more or less the first galactic war they have had, so their whole thing about space battle is more or less 'throw everything at the wall and see what sticks'.

As for the second....I'm not sure about effectivness of 'beam dispersal' missiles in their entirety, Gundam tends to them as 'perfect counters' but they aren't actually blocking laser beams, but the same time other shows have them at 'good for one shot and not much else'.
 
If I remember rightly, the idea of having 'missile spam' battleships being covered by 'PDL covered' battleships crops up in 'Banner of the Stars' which although is a pretty old anime, it does have some pretty neat concepts for space battleships, but that's mostly due to everyone being different nations and the war they are fighting in is more or less the first galactic war they have had, so their whole thing about space battle is more or less 'throw everything at the wall and see what sticks'.

As for the second....I'm not sure about effectivness of 'beam dispersal' missiles in their entirety, Gundam tends to them as 'perfect counters' but they aren't actually blocking laser beams, but the same time other shows have them at 'good for one shot and not much else'.
Banner of the Stars was pretty good. I liked that series, and they did have some interesting concepts. Interstellar civilizations that are just figuring out how to wage space wars come up with some pretty snazzy stuff.
Like missiles that pretend to be mission-killed, only to turn themselves into proximity missile launchers.

I too have my doubts about beam dispersal missiles, but it could be worth a try.

And am I the only one who thinks that the lack of multi-layered point defense systems in Mass Effect is really stupid?

I mean, couple anti-missile missiles, ECM, and GARDIAN lasers, and suddenly missile/torpedo weaponry shouldn't be a possible thing.
Hell, Fighter craft would be shot out of the sky by the Carrier-full.

There are things to be said for multi-layered defense systems, and relying on just one type of PDS, like GARDIAN, is just asking for your opponent to come up with an effective counter and blast you back to the stone age.
 
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Ha! Thought I'd never see somebody who's watched banner of the stars as well! Haven't seen anybody in the past several years since I watched it. ^.^
 
Ha! Thought I'd never see somebody who's watched banner of the stars as well! Haven't seen anybody in the past several years since I watched it. ^.^

Sat through both 'Crest of the Stars' and 'Banner of the Stars' recently, mainly because I found a decent fan-sub. Last time I tried, all there was a very grainy VHS-like uploads were half the dialog wasn't translated.

Lafiel's dad was a troll though.....claiming that her mother was the family cat....

Also, ECM is a factor with missiles. Maybe Shepard should look into that...

If I remember rightly....they do use E-warfare, SA is only one outside of the Salarians that use that extensively and outright hacking other ships is a no-go until EDI comes onto the scene...

Something about combat speeds being beyond what human 'hackers' can cope with....E-war in ME probably a amounts to something like:

Having to hit your high speed, highly accelerating enemy ships 'small' laser/maser comm transciever with your own laser/maser, working out the 'frequency' they are working at, then download viruses/trojans/worms and while you are doing this, you need to keep the beam pointed at the exact same spot while both you and the enemy is pulling off combat manuveurs.

No wonder she claims that she's the best one for that kind of thing....
 
Hoyr.... where are the updates... T.T

Sorry, delayed by my raging headache. Only cure I've found for those is pills, a cup of water and sleeping until its gone. Then I had family time. I'm writing it now. The vote's kinda weirdly phrased at times :rolleyes:, oh well.

About martial arts and biotics, done right it's a very potent combination and some thing I've been having a think on. It probably best to start with more internal arts and go from there. *World building* Asari Biotic Martial Arts are top of the line, in an old saga a semi-historical Asari matriarch grandmaster was capable of (small scale) matter to energy conversion attacks via true singularities, "lances tipped by a devouring void". Analysis of the historical sites the saga is believed to be based on have yielded evidence that these claims may be actually true. If any current grandmasters can do such things they aren't talking though. The leading Asari martial art's name roughly translates to "becoming one with everything", and has connections to the dominant Asari faith. Sadly most race's martial arts translate poorly to other races. Even between the rather similar Humans and Asari there are major differences "under the hood" so to speak. Humans for example don't have conscious control over their nervous systems*.

*Edit: as a default natural setting anyway.

As to spacefighters and the like. A fair amount of it does come down to "because it's cool". Even then ME does offer the nod that bombers are mostly just fancy missile buses. That way you can re-use the FTL core, and you need that core to get close to the targeted ship so it doesn't just dodge with a high speed hop. ME ship's time to c is ~8 to 12 seconds with effective* accelerations from ~24,000km/s^2 to 36,500km/s^2. (Edit old numbers were wrong!)

*ME drives might make this all screwy but this is the needed acceleration to do the relativity dodging acceleration-deceleration burns that math out to the effective 10-15LY/day speeds over a 50 hour period that ME ships are claimed to have.
 
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As to spacefighters and the like. A fair amount of it does come down to "because it's cool". Even then ME does offer the nod that bombers are mostly just fancy missile buses. That way you can re-use the FTL core, and you need that core to get close to the targeted ship so it doesn't just dodge a high speed hop. ME ship's time to c is 32 to 49 seconds with effective* accelerations from ~6,000km/s^2 to 9000km/s^2.

*ME drives might make this all screwy but this is the needed acceleration to do the relativity dodging acceleration-deceleration burns that math out to the effective 10-15LY/day speeds over a 50 hour period that ME ships are claimed to have.

Even so, it becomes a question of 'how many high speed dodges a ship can do until it overloads it's drive core or burns the power supply system out' or 'how much they can lower the mass of their ship before the decrease in Kinetic barrier strength means even glancing hit tears straight through them'.

Lowering the mass of ship does tend to lower KB strength, after all that is the main reason why Reaper Destroyers die like chumps in ME3.

That would explain why no-one uses their FTL drive to escape, once they get into certain ranges - jumping to FTL to escape would actually decrease their chances of survival.

I myself wouldn't risk both lowering the KB strength and accelerate my ship to 6,000km/s just on the off chance of a full on missile impact.

Travelling at 6,000Km/s does mean that everything you hit head on hits you back at those speeds, after all.

......Huh, I wonder if it's possible to build two types of missiles that are meant to be used together? One type to force the enemy into a high speed dodge and the other to intercept them on their flight path?
 
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ME ship's time to c is 32 to 49 seconds with effective* accelerations from ~6,000km/s^2 to 9000km/s^2.

*ME drives might make this all screwy but this is the needed acceleration to do the relativity dodging acceleration-deceleration burns that math out to the effective 10-15LY/day speeds over a 50 hour period that ME ships are claimed to have.

How exactly did you calculate that? Because I'm getting a rather different number:

T = 2 * Sqrt[ D / A ]

Time (T) = 50 hours = 50 * 3,600 = 180,000 seconds
Distance (D) = 15LY/day * 50 hours = 0.625LY/hr * 50 hours = 31.25LY = 295,641,513,000,000,000m

Acceleration (A) = 4D/T^2
= 4 * 295,641,513,000,000,000 / 180,000^2
= 4 * 295,641,513,000,000,000 / 32,400,000,000
= 1,182,566,052,000,000,000 / 32,400,000,000
Acceleration (A) = 36,498,952m/s^2 = 36,499km/s^2
 
So I had a thought. Is FTL skimming a thing? Just effectively having a fighter accelerate near C and drop their payload. Effectively using the fighter as a MA and doing high speed drivebys.
 
So I had a thought. Is FTL skimming a thing? Just effectively having a fighter accelerate near C and drop their payload. Effectively using the fighter as a MA and doing high speed drivebys.

I'm not even sure if the fighters are rated for FTL travel....I know that they are rated for atmospheric to space though.

Then again, you are just asking for someone to toss a mine in your projected flightpath if you did that anyway, FTL grade mass fields 'increase the energy' and up-shift whatever radiation your ship is giving off.

FTL in ME is pretty much saying 'look how pretty I am!' when you crank it up.

You might be able to get away with a weaker field tough, but you would be stuck with 'visible acceleration' - in other words something like...100 km/s acceleration or something?

How exactly did you calculate that? Because I'm getting a rather different number:

T = 2 * Sqrt[ D / A ]

Time (T) = 50 hours = 50 * 3,600 = 180,000 seconds
Distance (D) = 15LY/day * 50 hours = 0.625LY/hr * 50 hours = 31.25LY = 295,641,513,000,000,000m

Acceleration (A) = 4D/T^2
= 4 * 295,641,513,000,000,000 / 180,000^2
= 4 * 295,641,513,000,000,000 / 32,400,000,000
= 1,182,566,052,000,000,000 / 32,400,000,000
Acceleration (A) = 36,498,952m/s^2 = 36,499km/s^2

You did take into account that they accelerate for half the journey, then de-accelerate for last half, right?

People do tend to forget that to stop you need the same output only in reverse....
I was never any good with distance over time and acceleration calcs in high school, so I have no idea what those numbers mean.
 
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How exactly did you calculate that? Because I'm getting a rather different number:

T = 2 * Sqrt[ D / A ]

Time (T) = 50 hours = 50 * 3,600 = 180,000 seconds
Distance (D) = 15LY/day * 50 hours = 0.625LY/hr * 50 hours = 31.25LY = 295,641,513,000,000,000m

Acceleration (A) = 4D/T^2
= 4 * 295,641,513,000,000,000 / 180,000^2
= 4 * 295,641,513,000,000,000 / 32,400,000,000
= 1,182,566,052,000,000,000 / 32,400,000,000
Acceleration (A) = 36,498,952m/s^2 = 36,499km/s^2

Right you are! I used the same method but lost a /2 in my math. :oops: So even faster. Good to know.

Also can you get me a company value estimate for Shifting Developments (It's being bid on).
Ownership is mostly held by five people.
No real profit they've spent the last year and a half developing a product (Vehicle scale ammo mods)
Debt to equity is probably fairly good, but they are a new startup
Not really sure on the shares thing. ~80-90% are in the hands of the founders
Product is weapons
Size is really small, employs < 50 people.
Formal age is 17 months
Human company
Target market is SA military.

There's a few large companies willing to bid a pretty penny to get ownership, but after a point it just becomes cheaper for them to develop the product on their own. So I need a value for the bids.

If you can get a estimate to me quickly then that'd be awesome but if not I can delay the voting on it for an update.
 
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>.> By the way, is there any possible way for surface emplacements to engage enemy starships? It seems that the only defense against an enemy fleet is a friendly fleet and if you don't have one you're totally screwed. Surface to Space missiles need to be a thing, and possibly Surface to Orbit MACs. With the mass effect, weight is no longer a problem and with fusion reactors, there should be more than enough power for a couple of big guns.
 
>.> By the way, is there any possible way for surface emplacements to engage enemy starships? It seems that the only defense against an enemy fleet is a friendly fleet and if you don't have one you're totally screwed. Surface to Space missiles need to be a thing, and possibly Surface to Orbit MACs. With the mass effect, weight is no longer a problem and with fusion reactors, there should be more than enough power for a couple of big guns.
Putting anti orbital weapons on the ground is probably a violation of "don't bombard garden worlds from orbit" treaty, since ground based anti orbit weapons are only inviting ortillery countermeasures.
 
The real trick to missile spam is to find 'cost effectivness'...

For an instance, if you got told that those 10 missiles you have cost $10 million all together and you fired them all off in one go and the enemy PDL stopped every single one, then you have just wasted $10 million.

But if you had 100 missiles that cost $10 million all together and you fired them all off in one go and only half of them made it through, regardless of the amount of damage they made, they would still be considered 'better' than the more expensive ones simply due to being able to fired cheaply enough to punch through.

Of course though, there is after all a couple of websites you can go on where commenting on the 'effectivness of lasers and missiles in space combat' can pretty much cause a flame war due to disagreements.

Basically those that 'vote' for lasers claim that 'lasers will always damage the missiles enough to mission kill them' while those that 'vote' for missiles claim that 'we can always spam enough of them to overwhelm your PDL or make them overheat'.

The only thing they both seem to agree on is that if you are to take either one to extreme, you cannot have both.

If you want to cram in missiles, you better remove laser coollant.

If you want to cram in lasers/turrets, you better remove missiles.
Or have good enough fabbing that missiles are made on site on demand and only cost their materials.
 
Or have good enough fabbing that missiles are made on site on demand and only cost their materials.
Or... heheheh, you fire dummy missiles whose sole purpose is to wear down their GARDIAN effectiveness. Cheap cannon fodder missiles.

Then, after their GARDIANs have overheated, you throw a relatively small bunch of actual missiles at them!
 
You did take into account that they accelerate for half the journey, then de-accelerate for last half, right?

People do tend to forget that to stop you need the same output only in reverse....
I was never any good with distance over time and acceleration calcs in high school, so I have no idea what those numbers mean.

Yep. That is the Brachistochrone equation and basically it tells you how long it takes go from A to B (or rather cover distance D) given constant acceleration while factoring in the need to decelerate.

It's derived from basic equation you'd have seen in high school physics, and Calculus: X = 0.5at^2 + ut + c

Right you are! I used the same method but lost a /2 in my math. :oops: So even faster. Good to know.

Heh. That's why I basically always write out the math while posting. That way people can point out when I make stupid mistakes like that.

Also can you get me a company value estimate for Shifting Developments (It's being bid on).

Sure thing.

Ownership is mostly held by five people.
Not really sure on the shares thing. ~80-90% are in the hands of the founders
This right here says that the sale price isn't going to match the valuation of the company but more what the owners think they can get for it. This can be a pretty major swing factor depending upon the people involved and their relationships but I'll cover that in a bit. We can basically ignore the effects of anyone other then these five people.

No real profit they've spent the last year and a half developing a product (Vehicle scale ammo mods)
Formal age is 17 months
Debt to equity is probably fairly good, but they are a new startup

So it's essentially a brand new company with a nifty product. The fact that they actually have a good Debt to Equity ration, rather rare for a new company (especially one that has been running for a year and a half with no profit), is surprising.

This suggests that the owners are rather wealthy and really dedicated to their company if they were willing to pump in the kind of cash we're talking about here. Even with just one science team in a Lab I they are looking at a minimum of 25 million and more likely in the 30 to 40 million range.

Really looking over the information the company is basically worthless. It's just like every other startup small business, which with an 80% failure rate within the first three(?) years aren't a very good investment. The only thing that makes it valuable is the patent rights to their vehicle mods.

So it really comes down to two factors:
1) How much the vehicle mods are worth?

I can't really give a hard number here but this is big. Like waaay big. Phasic rounds will make ships a lot more vulnerable since even with a 50% damage reduction a single round is going to basically obliterate anything it hits. Incendiary rounds would be useless in space but depending upon how the KBs are set up Cryorounds would be devastating as would Shredder rounds (big issues with Railguns is over-penetration).

They don't have the full set yet but what they have is pretty nasty. Depending upon the cost the moding tech could be worth hundreds of millions to out right billions of credits.

Especially since no one is going to be able to (legally) replicate them for quite a while. (see later on)

2) How willing the owners are to sell?

These guys have poured a lot of time and money into creating Shifting Developments. This suggests they knew they had a winning idea and just needed the numbers to make it work or they really believed in this product.

In the first situation they'd likely sell out for as much as they can get. In the latter well they aren't going to be selling out. The only exception is if one of the five owners is really a venture capitalist rather then a 'owner' since they'd be most interested in ROI and frankly SD would likely struggle to bring these mods to the market by themselves. So any 'sane' venture capitalist would want to sellout now.

There's a few large companies willing to bid a pretty penny to get ownership, but after a point it just becomes cheaper for them to develop the product on their own.

That point is going to be pretty high since if SD have patented their stuff properly it wouldn't be the actual mods they patented (well it wouldn't just be the mods) but also the way of getting infantry mods to work with larger weapons.

It's a novel invention and wouldn't fall under the public domain like "squareness" does. So unless these other companies can find a different way of making mods work with big guns (unlikely without a lot of time and money) they won't be able to for the next ten or twenty years (depending upon patent life in ME). If they haven't patented it properly (or at all!) then the value drops significantly.

So I need a value for the bids.

Pretty arbitrary since the company by itself is basically worthless but I'm figuring somewhere in the range of 100m to 10b sounds about right.

100m would be the opening offer level while 10b would be the walk away and figure it out yourself threshold.

Spaceship companies are going to want this the most but even companies dealing primarily with planetary vehicles are going to be interested. Space companies would probably go all the way up to* 10b depending upon their specifics while most planetary companies wouldn't like enter the billion range*.

It will likely only be large companies like CHA and HK bidding because they are the only ones with the raw scale to take full advantage of the mods. They also benefit since depending upon the monopoly laws (too late at night to contemplate them) they could get away with only making their stuff compatible with the mods which would increase the value of all their combat capable vehicles.

I could be off however. It all really depends upon whether these vehicle mods are as much of a game changer as I think they could be since that is the primary value source for the company.

*People can be very sensitive to range jumps. Going from 999m to 1,000m is often harder for people then going from 900m to 999m despite it been a larger jump. That's why things are always for sale at xx.99 or xx.95

If you can get a estimate to me quickly then that'd be awesome but if not I can delay the voting on it for an update.

Hope this helps.
 
Putting anti orbital weapons on the ground is probably a violation of "don't bombard garden worlds from orbit" treaty, since ground based anti orbit weapons are only inviting ortillery countermeasures.

There is that old Krogan planetary defense cannon in ME3, anti-orbital nukes are mentioned being fired by Illium and Earth itself still possesses nuclear missile silos.

The hanar also have an automated defense grid, but I think that is supposed to be space-based.

If I remember rightly, the Reapers do bombard a couple of Turian colony cities because it turned out the city planners had anti-orbital weaponry built into the cities themselves.

It's one those things of 'everyone has a supply of WMDs, no matter who it is' because at a push, everyone could simply pick up their nuclear armed ICBMs that's normally reserved for in-house problems or just wanting to vapourise some cocky idiot who thinks he can take you on just because there isn't a fleet in orbit.

EDIT: Except for the Krogan....mainly because they aren't allowed warships and don't have the infrastructure for it.
 
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Sufficiently Advanced Technology
Sufficiently Advanced Technology
2173-Q2

[X] take a million"

… take a million. Use it to get some extra security. Better to be safe then sorry." you say.

"I shall do that then. I does seem a little excessive to me but I suppose I'm used to tight budgets and rather stingy grant money." Liara responds thoughtfully, "I think that covers anything I have to discuss. We might need to borrow some of your technical expertise later but for now things are good."

"Until next time then?"

"Until next time."


[X] Have your people record the minor presentations and the sales pitches of the IVF show. Show face at the presentations you have an interest in and make time to speak with any interesting new comers like the Vehicular Weapons Mod group that might be good to 'Sign Up'.
-[X] Brief our people manning the stall for us on any subtle advantages and edges the our product has over what we've seen.
-[X] Be prepared to be a measuring stick and if anyone is spiteful about it offer a chance of a competition between the two companies products after Revy presentation.
-[X] Be mindful of the upcoming Destruction Derby with the general. Make more effort to get good shots for our presentation that can be playing while we're doing our orbital drop. If our Drop Licence Allow us to drop into a cordoned off part of the convention site, do our presentation after stepping out after the drop.


After some thought you decide that going to all the presentations would be a waste of time. Your people can checkout any of the minor presenters. Hell the only interesting thing on today's agenda is Rosenkov Materials and Ariake Technologies' cloaking IFV. That's worth going to even if only to see something cool. Before that though you have a chance to check out the vehicular weapons mod guys especially as you're not wasting time at the presentations.

The Kremlin Palace is much emptier than before, most of the action having transitioned to the Alabino Tank Biathlon proving grounds. Manning the Shifting development's booth is a single older man who is watching a small holoscreen and providing commentary. His posture and bearing feel ex-military and you've been around enough such people that you are familiar with the signs.

"That's going to workout poorly in the field, good idea but poor execution" he says to the screen as you walk up.

You take a moment to look over the display. A looping movie shows a mod being cycled out quickly by a skilled tech, who looks to be the man before you. The movie also shows firing demonstrations of the mods on a 100mmx2.5m cannon as well as the resulting damage to the targets. In addition the booth displays a demonstration gun and a few mod kits.

"Oh, hello," the man says noticing you, "Sorry, no one's been by so I figured I'd watch some of the fun at Alabino. Captain Hwan of the Alliance's battlefield engineers, retired now obviously, and lead developer of the Vehicles Scale Ammo Mod technology."

"Rebecca Shepard, Paragon Industries." you introduce yourself.

"Really now? Though you looked familiar. I suppose we owe you thanks." He smiles, "Barrier strength going up has made everyone want a way increase the power of their guns. Custom rounds aren't anything new, but they're expensive and a logistical annoyance. We've gotten a few informal opening bids already. The more business savvy members of the team have started setting up something more formal."

"I'll admit that I'm interested too. Any chance I can get in on the bidding?" You ask.

"Sure, give me an extranet address. I'll have the relevant information forwarded to you. Anything else you want to know?" Captain Hwan replies.

"It looks like the mods would require a weapon designed to work with them. So any current weapons wouldn't be compatible." you observe looking over the demonstration pieces.

"Unfortunately current large-scale weapons just aren't designed to be modded like this so... yeah." he admits, "But I think the benefits are worth it. You might be able to modify existing weapons to take the mods it wouldn't be trivial, but you could do it. Anything else?"

"I think that's everything, thanks for your time."

"No problem, I'm looking forward to seeing Paragon Industies' IFV in action, good luck with the presentation."

The current highest offer is 500 million credits, but someone in Shifting Developments is looking to make a lot of money by playing the major companies off each other. Also there are a few details in the sales contract about keeping some of the employees on. How much are you willing to offer and how far will you go?
Opening offer
[ ] Offer 550 million
[ ] Offer 750 Million
[ ] Offer 1 Billion
[ ] Write in
How far will you go?
[ ] Up to 1 Billion
[ ] Up to 5 Billion
[ ] Up to 10 Billion
[ ] Write in
Whats you bidding strategy?
[ ] Stay on top, match any other bid
[ ] Massive bids, show the other companies that you're playing for keeps
[ ] Wait until the others have settled down then move in
[ ] Write in



Beyond Sight
The stands at the proving grounds are packed with people from several different services and companies, you even think you see the Turians you meet earlier. The reason is obvious, they all want to see the cloaking system. Rosenkov and Ariake have produced a fine IFV and show it off well as it traverses the obstacle course and snipes its targets.

The thrusters got a bit of an upgrade over the Mako making it more maneuverable and it looks like it won't "drive like its operator is drunk at best". The main turret has a 165mm cannon and two supporting autocannon instead of the usual lighter machine gun. Other than that it's just an all around high quality IFV.

The cloaking system is the truly impressive part. The companies show it off in several ways including using it to evade missile fire, which gets some appreciative comments from the crowd. As with many forms of stealth, firing weapons will disable the stealth quickly. The system Rosenkov and Ariake have developed can handle a single shot, but doing so reduces the time remaining on the cloak by 7 minutes if a shot is fired with the cloak on. The system can be used in shorter bursts so it's not entirely useless in heavy combat. There don't seem to be any obvious flaws to the cloak, but the IFV is still there and will make tread marks, kick up dust and do other things to give away its position.

You use this opportunity to get a few passive scan with your omnitool. You've customized yours with few above-standard quality sensors for your tinkering and lab work. From the readings you've gotten you'd guess that hitting the tank with a powerful enough burst of photons would cause the cloak to end prematurely. Though it most likely take a weaponized laser or maybe a strong gamma ray source. That information could be useful in the right, or wrong, hands...

You know of a potential weakness in the Holographic Optical Cloak, what do you do?
[ ] Say nothing, there are plenty of reasons why it'd be best not to say anything.
[ ] You could try to "subtly mumble" the information, others in the stands might "overhear" you. (Warning: You aren't very good at this).
[ ] Release the data on the extranet later.
[ ] Send the data to someone
--[ ]Who?
[ ] Write in



Your presentation is tomorrow and afterwards your General friend will want to abuse one of your IFVs, any last-minute commentary/suggestions from the players in addition to what you've said already?
[ ] Write in


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GM's Note: Major thanks go to UberJJK for his analysis of SD's value and how much people are willing to bid. Sadly all I can give him is an internet cookie. Redeemable at the Google image search. Also a chance at industrial sabotage! If you guys had gone to see the cloaking system on day one you'd have had the chance to screw up their presentation as it was happening. Also I wish SV had the default color, size and font marked in the editor, it would make formatting errors so much easier to fix.
 
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