Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

Daniel14541 · Nov 10, 2015

Van Ropen said:
Information revealing Cerberus, specifically, is hundreds of billions...and of course it is, what do you imagine that would cost?

... no it shouldn't. No information should cost that much. Not even kill codes for dreadnoughts or other strategic weapons should cost that much.

tyaty1 · Nov 10, 2015

They charged as much, because PI can afford it, and it is kind of vital for us.

Van Ropen · Nov 10, 2015

Daniel14541 said:
... no it shouldn't. No information should cost that much. Not even kill codes for dreadnoughts or other strategic weapons should cost that much.

>dreadnoughts cost tens of trillions of credits and represent fundamental strategic concerns on a galactic scale
>kill codes for such things shouldn't cost that much

Hurr durr.

You do understand it costs that much because of the large sum of money Cerberus paid, yes? Because we can pay that much? Because that's how the market works?

Hoyr · Nov 10, 2015

Dark as Silver said:
I honestly don't think that should be taken at face value. Most Quarian ships are civilian grade modified to be warships. Or just flat out civilian and still counted, the Turians have 'literally the largest military fleet in the galaxy, by all estimates'. If we include non warships I would guess that the Asari or Salarians have that honour. A race of a couple million locusts cannot compete with races of billions that span hundreds of planets.
Hoyr also seems to agree.

I think that it's mainly based on the fact that the Quarian fleet has the military force of three normal fleets concentrated in one area.

Alanek · Nov 10, 2015

And the mining of easily accessible resources bit is just stupid; There is so much stuff in just our asteroid belt that it's stupid; there are asteroids in there larger than quarian live-ships... and they certainly haven't been making more of those.

The number of bodies grows rapidly as the size decreases. Based on IRAS data there are about 140 main-belt asteroids with a diameter greater than 120 km.[3]

(wikipedia)

Kaioo · Nov 11, 2015

Alanek said:
And the mining of easily accessible resources bit is just stupid; There is so much stuff in just our asteroid belt that it's stupid; there are asteroids in there larger than quarian live-ships... and they certainly haven't been making more of those.

(wikipedia)

Expanding on this, we have millions of asteroids in our asteroid belt alone, and millions of them have rare metals in them, and tons and tons of them have more rare metals in them than has ever existed on earth in recorded history. And then there's loads of water asteroids.

Yet nothing is really ever mentioned about mining them.. in a lot of sci-fis or otherwise.. esp. in this.

Bioware wrote Mass Effect. They really don't understand a lot of shit.. We kinda just have to deal with it.

megrisvernin · Nov 11, 2015

[X] Yog

Lirana · Nov 11, 2015

[X] Yog

Alanek · Nov 12, 2015

Fission Battery, once you finish like-bombing everything, Welcome to the quest!

Red Bovine · Nov 12, 2015

[X] yog

Hoyr · Nov 12, 2015

Hmm.. I think it's time to call the vote anyway.

So section by section:
Peak Human Trials Finished:
[X] Panacea for all! Work with Sirta and their developing network of clinics to spread the benefits of this technology far and wide, (-11.3 Billion Credits)
--[X] Contact the governments - some countries offer free healthcare, and might subsidize the project for their citizens.
--[X] Anyone willing to can pay what they can to help maintain treatment centers. Work with your PR to encourage donations
No. of Votes: 17

Yog
Aeondrac
Alanek
Beto
Captain Hunt
Daniel14541
Dromeosaur
Katsuragi
Lirana
megrisvernin
Red Bovine
ShyGuy
Slayer Anderson
Sylvire
TheEyes
TotallyNotEvil
tyaty1

[X] Hire Jeff, elite test pilot. 250K/quarter.
No. of Votes: 37

Hyper Modularity Support:
[X] For free, develop builder VI and maintain database of verified parts. (-200 million credits/quarter)
No. of Votes: 35

ParSec Intelligence:
[X] Green light the project, gain the ability to hire and deploy agents and establish Intel networks. (-768 Million to start up, -35 million quarterly upkeep)
No. of Votes: 35

Super-Biotics Girl:
[X] Investigation: Which amp is that? Can we find anything about the girl's history? How did she get to Omega. Etc. (Feel free to add questions you consider critical in a subvote, -320 million)
No. of Votes: 37

[X] PR Response: Condemn human experimentation and offer the public the best proof we can offer that it wasn't us. (-200 million)
--[X] You helped L2 victims. Ask them to talk on your behalf
No. of Votes: 20

[X] We could send some one to talk to the girl. (Write in who)
-[X] Rahna. Her experience in the Alliances L2 implant program, while nowhere near as close to as bad as the girl has suffered, can let her emphasize more easily with the girl.
-[X] Hire some psychologists for the task, to advice people you send in
-[X] Some aliens on the team would be good too. A krogan she might relate to, both due to her violent nature and their history of being subjects to manipulation as a species. An asari might also elicit a positive response, especially a trained one
-[X] A group of Leginoary-armored soldiers as backup. They won't be making contact with the girl, but will be backing up the main team
-[X] See if you can find a feline uplift willing and qualified to talk to the girl. They are rare and reclusive, but you might be able to find one.
-[X] The team going in will have the following agenda:
--[X] Offer of sanctuary, protection, help from PI. And help in finding who did it to her.
--[X] If she declines, free ticket first class to either Earth, Thessia or and other respectable well-developed world in Citadel space
--[X] Giving her your contact number
No. of Votes: 18

Yog
Aeondrac
Alanek
Beto
Captain Hunt
Daniel14541
Dromeosaur
Emizaquel
Katsuragi
Lirana
megrisvernin
Red Bovine
ShyGuy
Slayer Anderson
Sylvire
TheEyes
TotallyNotEvil
tyaty1

Some Other Project:
[X] Invite Misaki Suzuhara to Paragon Industries for a tour of our ANI/ANI gaming development facilities as well as an offer to get the Peak Human package straight from the supplier, handled by the best doctors in the SA.
No. of Votes: 28

Red Bovine · Nov 12, 2015

@Hoyr Would it be possible for us to start a campaign to legalize transhumanist research and projects like Extremis in Citadel space?

Hoyr · Nov 12, 2015

Red Bovine said:
@Hoyr Would it be possible for us to start a campaign to legalize transhumanist research and projects like Extremis in Citadel space?

Yes...It'd be hard*.

*I would also like to observe that water is wet and space is big.

Daniel14541 · Nov 12, 2015

Van Ropen said:
>dreadnoughts cost tens of trillions of credits and represent fundamental strategic concerns on a galactic scale
>kill codes for such things shouldn't cost that much

Hurr durr.

You do understand it costs that much because of the large sum of money Cerberus paid, yes? Because we can pay that much? Because that's how the market works?

So your saying they paid out just about their entire income to do that?

okay I just figured out you where trolling. My bad. I'll keep my responses to people who want to debate in good faith in the future.

azoicennead · Nov 12, 2015

Daniel14541 said:
So your saying they paid out just about their entire income to do that?

okay I just figured out you where trolling. My bad. I'll keep my responses to people who want to debate in good faith in the future.

Cerberus (well, presumably Cerberus) paid an unspecifically large sum to keep the Shadow Broker from selling the information, and to make sure that if the Shadow Broker does sell it he tells them.

You made the mistake of saying fucking kill codes for ships that cost trillions of credits shouldn't cost hundreds of billions (which we can actually almost pay, if we were so inclined).

The argument was in good faith, you just apparently didn't understand it.

pinkturnip · Nov 12, 2015

Is it really smart to send anyone to a crazy superbiotic? She could easily just immediately kill everyone trying to talk. Having backup won't bring them back to life.

Daniel14541 · Nov 12, 2015

azoicennead said:
Cerberus (well, presumably Cerberus) paid an unspecifically large sum to keep the Shadow Broker from selling the information, and to make sure that if the Shadow Broker does sell it he tells them.

You made the mistake of saying fucking kill codes for ships that cost trillions of credits shouldn't cost hundreds of billions (which we can actually almost pay, if we were so inclined).

The argument was in good faith, you just apparently didn't understand it.

Kill codes for dreadnoughts costing that much is irrational. Nothing costs that much when it comes to information. I was highlighting the point by going with the item that cost the most ridiculous amount. I could see kill codes for dreadnaughts costing maybe a billion or even ten billion if there is an obscene amount of gouging going on here. Hundreds of billions of credits though? No.

So no, it was not made in good faith. Nothing costs that much when it comes to information.

The scenario of Cerberus raising the cost of their information would have it cost basically as much as it would cost us. Meaning 100's of billions of credits to raise the cost of that information. So if anything you guys didn't get the point.

azoicennead · Nov 12, 2015

Daniel14541 said:
Kill codes for dreadnoughts costing that much is irrational. Nothing costs that much when it comes to information. I was highlighting the point by going with the item that cost the most ridiculous amount. I could see kill codes for dreadnaughts costing maybe a billion or even ten billion if there is an obscene amount of gouging going on here. Hundreds of billions of credits though? No.

So no, it was not made in good faith. Nothing costs that much when it comes to information.

It's almost like they're being paid not to sell it.

Red Bovine · Nov 12, 2015

pinkturnip said:
Is it really smart to send anyone to a crazy superbiotic? She could easily just immediately kill everyone trying to talk. Having backup won't bring them back to life.

With that reasoning we shouldn't send our PI mercs out because they might die on the job.

UberJJK · Nov 12, 2015

Daniel14541 said:
could see kill codes for dreadnaughts costing maybe a billion or even ten billion if there is an obscene amount of gouging going on here. Hundreds of billions of credits though? No.

Except that makes zero sense. Look at the cost-benefit analysis here; Why build a 40 trillion credit Dreadnought if someone can safely destroy it for a mere ten billion credits to the Shadow Broker?

UberJJK · Nov 12, 2015

Hoyr said:
Missed this

Three things:
Not in civilian zones. All the engagements also included a fighter complement.
Hydras fire micro missiles which are kind of specifically designed for that kind of use, so that might actually work... sorta like the ME3 Hydra just without the reaper based software powering it (that was thing wasn't it? I can't verify that on wiki).
You didn't give me any ground attack bombs/missiles so I substituted.

Hydra bombs on ground targets. That would be terrifying. A thousand independently targetable warheads which are individually powerful enough to blow through the light barriers these soldiers are using...

Note that those are ME2 credits which have weird relative values to ME1 credits which I tend to use. And is it just more or does that seem low? Cerberus spent 4 billion credits on resurrecting Shepard alone. That's 2 billion credits per year or based on that quote 20% or more of Cerberus' budget.

Bioware cannot into economics. It's really not surprising the numbers don't quite make sense. Then again it could just show how important Shepard is to TIM. Oh and it explains why there weren't that many Cerberus projects that went rogue and killed everyone in ME2, they could afford to run them.

Here is the start of plan construction for next quarter, because having a couple fleshed out plans will make voting much easier.

Manufacturing:
[] Construct 5 Lite Laser Pyndas - 117,791,190,141.5cr + 305,996.65pr

Length: 100m
Hull Type: Hyper-Modular
Primary Weapon: 90m Mass Accelerator Cannon
Secondary Weapon I: 5GW 400nm Laser
Secondary Weapon II: 5GW 400nm Laser
Propulsion System: 250MN Repulsor
FTL Drive Type: 11.25LY/28PSl
Shield Type: Warp
Armor Type: Arcane Blur

Credit Cost: 23,558,238,028.30cr
Production Cost: 61,199.33pr

[] Construct 16 Small Anti-Ship Missiles - 560m + 1,600pr
[] Construct 92 Hydra Missiles - 368m + 1,564pr
[] Construct 200 Accipiter Drones - 40m + 200pr

[] Build 3 Factory IIIs, a Barracks, and Admin Building with Assault Grade Campus Shielding in Benning's Capital (Ross) - 4,020m
[] Build 3 Factory IIIs and a Barracks with Assault Grade Campus Shielding in Benning's other cities (6) - 24,060m

Total Fiscal Impact:
Production Cost: 95,113.2
Credit Cost: 42,092,690,000

Before Full UberJJK Plan:
2174-Q2 Budget breakdown:
Starting cash: 64,490,293,340
Guaranteed profit from contracted sales: 93,082,750,000
Unused Production: 1,501,131.00 (worth 260,000 per point via Lindsey Bradley if unused)
Guaranteed expenses: (2,516,072,090)
Total after-tax cash available for 2171-Q1 (if no Unused Production is used): 436,280,825,000
Total after-tax cash available for 2174-Q1 (if all Unused Production is used): 124,045,577,000

After Full UberJJK Plan:
2174-Q2 Budget breakdown:
Starting cash: 64,490,293,340
Guaranteed profit from contracted sales: 93,082,750,000
Unused Production: 1,501,131.00 - 309,360.65 = 1,191,770.35 (worth 260,000 per point via Lindsey Bradley if unused)
Guaranteed expenses: (2,516,072,090)
Total after-tax cash available for 2174-Q1: 124,045,577,000 + 309,860,291,000 - 146,839,190,141.5 = 287,066,677,858.5

Now I'm pretty tired so I'm probably forgetting stuff but that is the point of posting it now. The two things that jump out at me that need including are:
1) Non-lethal drones
2) This turn's costs need to be factored in. It's pretty minor at ~12 billion IIRC though.

Red Bovine · Nov 12, 2015

Red Bovine said:
@Hoyr Would it be possible for us to start a campaign to legalize transhumanist research and projects like Extremis in Citadel space?

Hoyr said:
Yes...It'd be hard.

In that case I suggest we start on this immediately since Extremis is just way too good to pass up.

Daniel14541 · Nov 12, 2015

UberJJK said:
Except that makes zero sense. Look at the cost-benefit analysis here; Why build a 40 trillion credit Dreadnought if someone can safely destroy it for a mere ten billion credits to the Shadow Broker?

Well for one because something like that couldn't exist.

Strategic weapons may have locks but ships would still be more then able to fly around. So any code sold would at most put in a software lock on the main gun of a dreadnaught. A single dreadnaught. That could be worked around given a day of maintenance to cut out computer systems and install new ones if necessary.

So in your scenario it would take out the main gun of a single dreadnaught for 24 hours.

Let me make this clear, many entire spy agencies of the united states of America get by with less then 20 billion or so dollars currently. Does this help you understand the scope of the resources it takes to set up these organizations and run them? What they take to run each year on average? How much they generally pay for secrets and such?

We are talking about the country that likes to throw money at problems so that they go away.

azoicennead · Nov 12, 2015

Daniel14541 said:
Well for one because something like that couldn't exist. Strategic weapons may have locks but ships would still be more then able to fly around. So any code sold would at most put in a software lock on the main gun of a dreadnaught. A single dreadnaught. That could be worked around given a day of maintenance to cut out computer systems and install new ones if necessary.

The climax of ME1 - where what you're saying wouldn't happen actually does and the Normandy is locked down - disagrees with your assumption.

Daniel14541 · Nov 12, 2015

azoicennead said:
The climax of ME1 - where what you're saying wouldn't happen actually does and the Normandy is locked down - disagrees with your assumption.

... where they shoot a reaper in its face with their main gun? Not following.

-edit-

Okay looked it up. Your talking about when they had docking clamps on the ship right? Yeah not relevant. I'm talking about a code like a strategic launch code or a premature detonation code for said nukes in case they ever get launched and you decide after the fact you don't want to nuke your target. So you blow up the nuclear bomb while its still in flight.

Shepard Quest Mk VI, Technological Revolution

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