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See No Evil - ASOIAF SI

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GenoDragoon said:
I never can take the scene where the SI vomits after killing serious.
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Well the last time I got injured enough to need stitches I vomited at the sight of my blood spattered on the ground, though its also possible it could be the injurious impact, adrenaline rush, and stress that caused it, though it hardly matters given the subject. Of course if I was an SI I'd probably take the Pacifist Route and probably die horribly in doing so unless its a setting less shitty than ASOIAF.

Probellum said:
Even if you somehow convince me here of your opinion, it won't matter. The SI is from before this moment and is of an entirely different mindset, and I will right him as such because of my integrity as an author.

I'd also point out, you all are assuming the SI's next course of action, when he hasn't even come to his decision as of yet within the story.
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My general assumption is that no you don't intend that and are just baiting audiences. That said, the 'integrity as an author' argument doesn't really work. While you may be obligated to operate within the constraints of what's IC for your SI and other characters, or stick to canon worldbuilding, that still leaves you absolutely immense leeway. The varying interpretations of canon, the parts of canon not explored, and then just the inevitable brownian motion of random events that is life. If you want to railroad your SI into acting, you can, just as you can railroad your SI into not acting.

I think most here are of the feeling that not acting would be a significantly less interesting and significantly more frustrating story. In particular, it would most definitely fail to satisfy your imposed goal of "this won't be your usual Self Insert". I mean I have a list right here of usual SI things. SI characters hemming and hawing about butterflies and fate, then doing nothing as the stations of canon roll around, is a very common and annoying pattern. Especially since the author chose to railroad their SI down that path, then chose to railroad the stations of canon happening irregardless of butterflies.

Probellum said:
A few thousand deaths and the unhappiness of his brothers and sisters is nothing compared to the possibility of insuring that everyone does not get wiped out by the others in 20 years.
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The issue is that it doesn't really insure anything. When people are presented with the Trolley Problem, their usual response is to insist on taking a 3rd option or pretend that inaction is absolution, and the Trolley Problem is a forced and artificial scenario where the stakes are unrealistically clear and of immediate importance. This one, the cost for inaction is huge, personal, and soon, while the benefits for inaction a very distant very nebulous maybe. Overall, if fate is self-correcting, then Jon or whoever is the savior will be born, and if fate isn't self-correcting, then the SI's arrival has already destroyed the prophecy utterly with no way to repair it. The only way to draw an "inaction is best" viewpoint would be if the SI knows the EXACT rigidity of fate and what will/won't knock it off course, then have the border-line omniscience needed to know the specific wills and won'ts, then have the border-line omnipotence needed to ensure the ducks are all in a row.
 
firefossil said:
The issue is that it doesn't really insure anything. When people are presented with the Trolley Problem, their usual response is to insist on taking a 3rd option or pretend that inaction is absolution, and the Trolley Problem is a forced and artificial scenario where the stakes are unrealistically clear and of immediate importance. This one, the cost for inaction is huge, personal, and soon, while the benefits for inaction a very distant very nebulous maybe. Overall, if fate is self-correcting, then Jon or whoever is the savior will be born, and if fate isn't self-correcting, then the SI's arrival has already destroyed the prophecy utterly with no way to repair it. The only way to draw an "inaction is best" viewpoint would be if the SI knows the EXACT rigidity of fate and what will/won't knock it off course, then have the border-line omniscience needed to know the specific wills and won'ts, then have the border-line omnipotence needed to ensure the ducks are all in a row.
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..... Have you ever been in a situation where lives depend on you? Not one your trained for, no, something like a car accident. Something where you can do a few bits on instinct, say, checking for injured, but then, you have to deal with everything else? Call the cops, help people who aren't injured, but are shocky, take photo's of the damage, work out who's at fault?

I've been there. The uncertainty, not being sure what I should be doing, trying to do something, but not being sure what to do.

So. No Spacebattles compedance. No automatic acceptance of what seems so easy, when there is no pressure.

Some people have trouble with stress. I'll bet, if you were facing a thuggish gang, you'd freak. If you were suddenly responsable for a quater-million lives or more, and any action you made could literaly get millions killed, you'd have issues, too.

Or not. In which case, this story has nothing for you.

So, please shut up and go away.
 
Good read, I do have my criticism, but above posters have gone over the points in detail. I'd like to continue reading though.

Cheers
 
Look: I was less offended by the guy thinking the story was bad, than I was offended by him couching his post in prettied up, passive aggressive snipes about how stupid I am for writing it and then ending it with a half-hearted 'well wishes for the rest of your fic' so that he could keep the moral high ground.

I do not let that shit fly.

The thing is, why people keep assuming the SI will do nothing at all boggles me. The only event he has even thought about is the birth of Jon Snow. That is the only even he considers necessary to happen, as it may prevent the end of the world.

But shit like Rickard, and Brandon dying? He does want to prevent that. They are his family, and he'll do what he can to protect them. But he's young, and he is a third son. There isn't much that he can do to influence things on a grandscale at the moment. So he's relegate to thinking about what he can influence, which isn't much.

There's also a bit of selfishness there, as well. Because the SI does not want to end up living the tedious life of a brother of the Night's Watch, only to die one some random ranging and barely making a footnote in people's minds.

So yes, he's going to change things. Change a whole bunch of things, some for the better, some not.
 
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You can't really get annoyed at posters when there's so little of the story to discuss. If there was more, the SIs actions would be demonstrated, rather than everyone having to guess
 
Well, boy, that escalated quickly.

Going from being a Si to murdering people in just a few hours is impressive. I am not sure even I could pull it off. And I am psychopathic.
 
I really don't give a shit about wether this was murder or not. I'm liking what I see, and I eagerly await more.
 
Simonbob said:
..... Have you ever been in a situation where lives depend on you? Not one your trained for, no, something like a car accident. Something where you can do a few bits on instinct, say, checking for injured, but then, you have to deal with everything else? Call the cops, help people who aren't injured, but are shocky, take photo's of the damage, work out who's at fault?

I've been there. The uncertainty, not being sure what I should be doing, trying to do something, but not being sure what to do.

So. No Spacebattles compedance. No automatic acceptance of what seems so easy, when there is no pressure.

Some people have trouble with stress. I'll bet, if you were facing a thuggish gang, you'd freak. If you were suddenly responsable for a quater-million lives or more, and any action you made could literaly get millions killed, you'd have issues, too.

Or not. In which case, this story has nothing for you.

So, please shut up and go away.
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I'm somewhat confused. Your post appears to be broadly in agreement with mine, only for you to end with a hostile rebuttal. My point is this is like an exact inversion of the Trolley scenario, where all they need to do is flip a switch so it doesn't hit a loved one (and thousands of other innocent people), and if they do flip the switch there is a nebulous and uncertain chance that this could have unclear consequences at a distant point in the future, oh and you have hours if not days to think about it so no rush. Sitting by stonefaced and not flipping the switch, utterly confident both that the ends justify the means and that your calculations on fate itself are accurate, is SB competence.

I mean heck I'd utterly spazz out when faced with any sort of hard choice. I spazz out when faced with easy choices of no consequence. Though I'm dubious that I'd lose much sleep over whether my actions have some incredible vague chance of doing Bad Things to people outside my monkeysphere, especially when not acting has a nigh certain chance of doing Bad Things as well and I, like most humans, am bad at comparatively gauging Bad Things.

Probellum said:
The thing is, why people keep assuming the SI will do nothing at all boggles me. The only event he has even thought about is the birth of Jon Snow. That is the only even he considers necessary to happen, as it may prevent the end of the world.
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Because the majority of the SI fics do just that. The average SI shrugs and lets commander Shepard die to the Collectors because MAH FUTR NOLIDGE.
 
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I don't really understand why killing people is made out to be so hard, people are animals, smart ones but they still grunt and squeal when you stab them.
 
firefossil said:
Because the majority of the SI fics do just that. The average SI shrugs and lets commander Shepard die to the Collectors because MAH FUTR NOLIDGE.
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The bad ones, sure.

The good ones freak out over it, and make at least abortive attempts to stop it.

What it comes down to, is that I'm acceptibly convinced of "Ben's" actions being reasonable enough, within the framework of this story. I'd like to see more, and I'm fairly certain that badgering the author won't give us that.

So.

No more badgering? Is that a possibility?
 
Simonbob said:
The bad ones, sure.

The good ones freak out over it, and make at least abortive attempts to stop it.

What it comes down to, is that I'm acceptibly convinced of "Ben's" actions being reasonable enough, within the framework of this story. I'd like to see more, and I'm fairly certain that badgering the author won't give us that.

So.

No more badgering? Is that a possibility?
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The SIs actions were reasonable? The whole quickly deciding sacrificing his sister was necessary and then near immediately seeking out danger alone to kill people? The idea of the story is decent just the execution is questionable.
 
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Well more to the point if you've got Ben's memories you should already be desensitized to killing, he'd have killed animals and skinned them, and probably watched criminals lose their heads. Trust me when I say that's more than enough to harden your stomach. The smells and sights are the same from animal to animal.

What I said earlier is true, 'people are animals, smart ones but they still grunt and squeal when you stab them.' This is what Ben probably sees, further reinforced because the people he killed were the lowest low life's out there.
 
Huh I just realized something, you could go up to your brothers and Lyanna and say you overheard people talking about the Crown Prince and how he might be as mad as his father. And mention how he's looking for a mistress so he could have an Orys for his son Aegon (that's a lie but it'll make sense) and mention that's why no other Lord Paramount brought there daughters. All you have to do is put those thoughts in their heads then when Rhaegar crowns Lyanna everybody will high-tail it to Winterfell rather than loafing in the Riverlands and Vale for Brandon's wedding.
 
ETA50M said:
Huh I just realized something, you could go up to your brothers and Lyanna and say you overheard people talking about the Crown Prince and how he might be as mad as his father. And mention how he's looking for a mistress so he could have an Orys for his son Aegon (that's a lie but it'll make sense) and mention that's why no other Lord Paramount brought there daughters. All you have to do is put those thoughts in their heads then when Rhaegar crowns Lyanna everybody will high-tail it to Winterfell rather than loafing in the Riverlands and Vale for Brandon's wedding.
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You...haven't read anything in the thread, have you?
 
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