Remove ads

[RTW] Kaisertreu: An Austria-Hungary LP

Reader mode
Well, looks like its time for Austro-Hungary to learn the fine art of the Submarine, and teach the Raviolis that they do NOT get to fuck around with you.
 
CV12Hornet said:
The correct term is "spaghettis", actually. Otherwise, I agree. Maybe some fast light cruisers and destroyers, too. Worked out OTL.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Spaghetti is a pain to spell. Besides, I have to use the fact I know at least eight types of pasta eventually! I'd say go for the MBTs, but those arn't included. Which is sad.
 
Bki said:
Is there any reason you didn't have a few of your initial B/CA under construction at the start of the game instead of buying them outright? They are almost half the price, so you might have had parity with Italy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

With manual build, you have to use a lot of funds or else they simply disappear into the void. You can only have ~26 million in funds for starting stuff in construction. Plus in theory the ships are available now if RNG causes a war to break out.
 
Remove ads
7. In which the KuK Kriesgmarine blows up Eretrea Eskhata
  • Threadmarks
    • Bki said:
    Is there any reason you didn't have a few of your initial B/CA under construction at the start of the game instead of buying them outright? They are almost half the price, so you might have had parity with Italy.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I could make an argument it's kind of cheesy to abuse the option to have ships under construction since the AI almost ever does that and a human player can use it to get a big advantage, but honestly I forgot. I wanted an example of every ship combat ship around at the start and needed at least three battleships so by the time that all was done I didn't have any cash left. Probably could have squeezed two Maria Theresias out within 14 months rather than the torturous build schedule I wound up with. Anyway...



    The opportunity to intercept the Italian fleet as it returned to its bases in Taranto from a sally into the Mediterranean arose but was declined by Graf Montecuccoli, who had added the role of Commander-in-Chief of the Fleet (Flottenkommandant) to his peacetime duties as head of the Navy. The SMS Maria Theresia was in docks being upgraded, while the SMS Prag and SMS Ferdinand III had not yet completed their shakedown cruises. Doctrine additionally called for the Italian Navy to be attrited by light forces and cruiser actions before a decisive battle was sought, and in any case the large numbers of destroyers had shut down Italian maritime traffic in the Adriatic. There was little to be gained by risking the fleet this early; the Battle Fleet would be stronger within a few months, and the Italians would be weaker.







    Consistent with that plan of operations a proposal by Konteradmiral Maximilian Njegovan to take a light force on a raid against the Italian port of Bari was approved. It had been chosen as an embarkation point for Italian Army units being escorted to Libya by the Regia Marina and as such the port was crammed full of munitions. A bombardment would demoralize the Italian population and the destruction of the munitions dump would cost the Italians precious months of preparation.



    The force consisted of all three modern protected cruisers as well as a strong flotilla of destroyers, and set out to launch the attack under cover of darkness. A secondary consideration was the possibility of ambushing Italian warships streaming south to Taranto in the darkness, where the large number of torpedo craft available to the Imperial and Royal Navy would have their best opportunity to score a surprise attack run.







    The flotilla proceeded south toward Bari from the base at Pola, turning west to close toward the port an hour or so after dusk. Twenty five minutes later, the destroyer Leopard reported an Italian destroyer. A brief diversion to chase down the Italian ship uncovered a minesweeper patrolling the approaches of the port. It was duly shot up before it could break away and warn the army batteries near Bari about the approach of the flotilla. With that business dealt with, Admiral Njegovan aboard his flagship SMS Aspern ordered the cruisers in close to the port facilities; the munitions dump was some distance away, and accurate fire was not particularly possible, but the rough location of the munitions dump was known and the port itself had been taken over by the Army so the risk of civilian casualties was considered acceptably minimal.



    The intelligence about the munitions dump was wrong, but an errant 5" shell fired from landed among piles of Italian explosive filler stored in a warehouse by the docks. The resulting explosion showered the Austrian ships with debris and lit up the night in an orange fireball visible for kilometers away; reports of the sound were reported as far away as Taranto. With the port of Bari reduced to a flaming wreck and Italian operations against Libya thoroughly disrupted, the mission had been accomplished. And shaken by the result, Njegovan turned away at high speed to complete the other part of his mission, the interception of any Italian naval forces rushing to respond to the bombardment.





    The report of an AMC by the Szigetvar occasioned some excitement aboard the Aspern, but investigation found the contact to be a merchant ship plying its way north to Ancona. The ship was run down and sunk, with the crew picked up by the Zenta. Further efforts to seek out and engage Italian warships or at least to run down more Italian liners was futile, and shortly after dawn Njegovan gave the order to return to Pola.



    The result was a modest victory. Although the operation severely disrupted any Italian preparations to invade Libya, the presence of the Royal Navy at Malta had already caused second-thoughts about that operation among the Italian Comando Supremo. Casualties from the explosion were significant, but largely confined to longshoremen and Italian military personnel so the impact on neutral opinion was muted. The failure to engage Italian fleet units was a disappointment but that had not been a formal goal of the operation, merely a hoped-for target of opportunity. In the end the naval command was happy with having drawn first blood on the Italians, and willing to settle in for a longer campaign.





    Analysis of public design information and photography suggested the Szigetvar class protected cruisers enjoyed a substantial advantage over the Italian Nino Bixio class, although the suitability of the latter for raiding was a matter of concern. However the elimination of Italian shipping in the Adriatic and subsequent entry of Britain into the blockade against Italy relieved most of those concerns. The Imperial and Royal Navy's cruisers were more than adequate to chase down Italian raiders in the Mediterranean, while the worldwide reach of the British Royal Navy would see an end to any Italian cruisers that somehow snuck past Gibraltar. And it was expected that the blockade would rapidly bring the Italians to heel.

    With a certain degree of confidence, then, the Marinekommandant looked over proposals for the follow-on class of battleship submitted by the venerable naval engineer Siegfried Popper. The expansion of facilities at Trieste would, within a few months, allow the laying down of a ship of up to 18,000 tons displacement. That opened a lot of new opportunities, though the Navy had already made a decision that the next battleship must use Skoda's impressive M.02 30.5cm naval rifle, and must maintain the 20 knot speed of the existing battleline. With that in mind, Popper presented three possibilities.



    Option A was a heavily armored beast of a battleship with an exceedingly large number of 14.9cm secondaries. In many respects it represented an extension of the design philosophy of the Wien class battleship. The large number of fast-firing secondaries would smother an enemy battleship's superstructure, leaving it vulnerable to torpedo attack by the lighter forces accompanying it. A large tertiary battery of twenty 8.8cm rapid-fire guns was expected to drive off enemy torpedo-boat attacks and reduce the danger of close engagements. Stores and accommodations were not suitable for operations outside of the Mediterranean.



    Option B was modestly better protected than the Wien class, most notably with a strengthened Belt Expansion armor. The extra weight of the class went into a very heavy secondary battery of twelve 24cm guns in six double turrets arranged on the broadside of the vessel. The secondary battery was expected to be very effective against enemy battleships, with the greater penetration of the 24cm guns and their heavier HE shells expected to more than make up for any loss of rate of fire, while being adequate to threaten most armored cruisers and all protected cruisers in their own right. As with Option A, a very heavy tertiary armament of 8.8cm guns was retained to ward off torpedo attacks. However the option was still unsuitable for operations outside the Mediterranean.



    Option C was the most conventional in many respects. It enjoyed a greater balance between armor and firepower than the other options, and more importantly still boasted improved crew habitation and larger stores to enable extended operations in the Atlantic or the Pacific. It retained the very heavy tertiary batteries of the other two options and added a substantial torpedo armament to take advantage of the potential for close-in engagements against enemy battleships. It was unclear, however, if the KuK Kriegsmarine would be ready to look to the construction of a navy capable of worldwide operations; the Option C battleships would not have any escorts ready for them for a while, in any case.

    And then there were the considerations of the present war. Offers to produce submarines were already being tendered by Holland and Sons as well as Germania Werft and even the moribund old company of Whitehead Torpedo-Fabrik in renewed association with STT. The use of the submersible torpedo-craft to infiltrate Italian ports was being seriously considered, especially in light of the effectiveness of the blockade. Additional cruisers to hunt down any Italian commerce-raiders and to better enforce the blockade were also needed, though the anticipated completion of the SMS Karl VI within the year was expected to help matters there. An order for minesweepers was already being drawn up. Arguments at the War Ministry over funding priorities would rage as fiercely as the battles of the Adriatic in the coming months.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Anyway, feel free to weigh in on the designs or on build-priorities. It'll provide at least a degree of interactivity and help me refine my own intentions, especially since playing out and then writing up this very mundane battle (aside from that critical hit, never seen that before on a LT) took about two hours so this war isn't going to go by quickly.
     
    [x] Option B

    This design looks goofy and fun. Also it does give us a good broadside before ship design advances.
     
    I say A, actually. You can never have too much armor, and something about that much HE-slinging QF guns tickles my fancy.
     
    Going C here. Massive ammounts of secondaries means massive numbers of targets for the enemy to knock out. Failing that, B.
     
    I'm wavering between A and B. I don't think you need to worry about long-range Bs, given that by the time you work your way around to a second war someone will have invented dreadnoughts--either you (in which case, you won't need the pre-dreads) or them (in which case your pre-dreads would be chew toys), or most likely both. I'm leaning towards B, though, due to my natural inclination to eliminate casemates whenever possible.
     
    Option B, because heavy secondaries actually makes some sense in a predread.
     
    I'd say Option C. Cramped accommodations and short range on the other designs means you'll have a hard time using them anywhere else, and I believe cramped accommodations cause a slight performance debuff.
     
    I would say option B, I have been contemplating such semi-dreadnoughts designs recently, so I want to see how well they would do.

    Edit : since you're already blockading the Italians, Submarines probably wouldn't be worth the cost since they wouldn't have any targets.
     
    Last edited:
    Building an extended range predreadnought makes little sense at this point in time both in character and as a practical consideration. Austria has no foreign commitments and a tiny budget, which means that every ship needs to be as capable as possible. If that means sacrificing range and accommodations, then so be it. Leave foreign duties to cruisers, not the battle line that you'll need to defend the coast.

    That said, I'd actually go with design B. I'm interested in seeing how a heavy secondary predreadnought fares in battle, since I've pretty much abandoned using them myself to mount more armor instead. Either way, you'd want to go with one of the first two designs.

    Also, like @Bki said, since you have the British as your allies, the Italians are going to be blockaded for the near future and thus any submarines you build right now are going to be rapidly lost liabilities that won't sink much at all. It would probably be better to wait until they're more reliable before actually laying some down.
     
    As counter-intuitive as it seems, B might actually be the best option here. Until you can get multiple centerline turrets, heavy secondary guns will be the only way of increasing a battleship's ability to fight against it's peers. You even made sure they'd have enough armor!
     
    bdun140 said:
    As counter-intuitive as it seems, B might actually be the best option here. Until you can get multiple centerline turrets, heavy secondary guns will be the only way of increasing a battleship's ability to fight against it's peers. You even made sure they'd have enough armor!
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    B is actually something that has been tried IRL (see for example the Satsuma-class battleships or the Lord Nelson class battleships, and others), so I'm not sure I would call it counter-intuitive either.
     
    There seems to be a prevailing opinion in favor of Option B. I lean fairly strongly in that direction as well. While an ocean-going fleet is a long term project it's also a luxury Austria-Hungary has little use for now. Last playthrough I never even took a colony outside the Mediterranean and may wind up doing the same here. As such Option C was mostly a theoretical design option to see what was possible now.

    That leaves A and B.

    Of the two B is clearly more powerful and "forward thinking." A heavy secondary battery is usually warned against due to the threat of being penned and setting off magazine explosions. But right now, and for a few more years until effective AP ammunition is developed, it's possible to armor the secondaries sufficiently to make that a minimal concern. And the addition of extra heavier batteries makes it all the more likely to score significant hits at all, which is the real challenge right now. For a brief time before dreadnoughts proliferate a semi-dreadnought like the Radetzky class is likely to be the most powerful warship in the world, and it'll be more useful in that span of early badnoughts before predreads become a complete liability.

    Option A by contrast makes me a bit uncertain as to its long-term use. It should be capable of bouncing any shell in existence right now, and the four 0 12" guns probably are among the best in the world; in theory they can pen the 7-inch belt armor of the Roma class at 5000 yards, and the masses of 6" guns really do argue for a brawler. But it's got no torpedo protection, and that's the real threat to predreadnoughts right now so closing in would always be a high risk, high reward option.
     
    Last edited:
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top