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Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome

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Telamon said:
Where Tercerus teaches you of stratagems, formations, and how to conduct a war, Tercerus advises you on the men themselves.
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I imagine that Sertorius had a hand in teaching us stratagems.

Imperator said:
Samnium
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I don't quite see the point in razing this town to the ground.
It's small and resistance had been comparatively light, not to mention that it's one of the first targets.
Medix is convincing soldiers to fight by reminding them of the threat Rome poses. We aren't convincing anyone of laying down their weapons and becoming citizens when even the lightest resistance is met with extermination.

That said, the messenger needs to be avenged.
 
Oh, one note: Mephitis is worshipped as a minor goddess in Rome already. If Visellia Mertia doesn't like the part where we move her temple, she CAN stay behind while Roman priests of the same deity staff the new temple, I imagine.

vsh said:
I think that godnapping and assault on Aeclanum do not go hand in hand. First, we'll need to spend a lot of time to dismantle the temple and it'll give defenders time to preapre. Second, we'll have to detach some of our forces to transporting duty.
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The Sandman said:
My take is that for now we take the priestess and whatever items are of ritual significance with us for safekeeping, then lock the doors and bar the path. The full dismantling of the structure comes after the conquest, as part of the extension of Roman governance to the region.
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For that matter, we could in principle just leave the priestess here and take nothing related to the temple with us on the march to Aeclanum, then come back for that stuff later. Our decree that the temple be moved doesn't have to be carried out this minute. The worst that might happen is that the priestess might go into hiding or squirrel away some of the temple treasures. And all that happens then is that said treasures will be lost to her when wemove the temple to Rome, or that her rebuilt 'order' becomes homeless.

Imperator said:
Samnium delenda est, Furculae Caudina memini
This is the best chance we get to end the war quickly by imposing harsh Roman justice on the samnites. Show no mercy to everyone who resists. Make an example of these folks and the rest will fall in line from fear. Should the temple be destroyed, the priestess must also be taken as our personal slave. I believe she will not stop being a hostile agent to Rome even if we "kidnapped" her gods or showed mercy.
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So first we laboriously raze the town, taking time to enslave and carry off all the inhabitants. And we do this before the assault on Aeclanum, because unlike the temple treasures, the inhabitants won't be around if we come back for them later, not if they know the plan is death or slavery.

Then we go march off to battle. The Aeclanum garrison will have had ample time to prepare field fortifications around the town. A significant chunk of the garrison will be militia from the town we just destroyed, men who have lost everything to us and have no reason to do anything other than fight on suicidally. The rest of the garrison will know we are likely to destroy their town too and resist fiercely if we attack.

In addition to this, we take the last surviving priestess of a goddess of poisons, after we killed all her friends and mentors and destroyed everything in her life. And then we force her to stay with us as our personal slave.

Gee, that sounds like it's going to end well.

Tasoli said:
Funny thing is options says green guys are more likely to listen us than first cohort. So first is more likely to go over board than greenies.
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More likely to listen, less likely to have the kind of iron discipline you expect from crack troops. For some purposes that would cancel out. For other purposes it wouldn't. I think here, it'd cancel out.

Thyreus said:
That said, the messenger needs to be avenged.
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We can always blame the (conveniently dead) leader for the death of the messenger.

______________________

As per my discussion with @Telamon , I am posting this vote, since I won't otherwise get a chance to for about twelve hours more. NOTE: Other people who do a vote with X's will not be counted, Telamon says, not for another five hours! Moratorium is still in place!

[X] Plan Carmen Sandiego
- [X] Cohors Primus
- [X] Loot most of the town's wealth.
- [X] Attack
- [X] Write-In: Swords For Plowshares. Leave the ruined town as it is, and set most of the people free. Confiscate the plows and draft animals. Bring a few Tuticans with the cohort on the march to Aeclanum. Through them, inform the Tutican militia that we'll let them return home in peace and return their farming implements if they stand down and hand over their weapons. With the spring planting season coming up, it's a tempting choice.
- [X] Write-In: Captured Gods. You show the priestess the mercy of Rome, sparing her order and her life- but on your terms. You order the men under your command to gather up the sacred artifacts and idols of the Grey Lady carefully, returning anything they have taken from the temple precincts. The goddess Mephitis will be honored- in Rome. Her temple will be taken apart and relocated. Visellia Mertia can take up the task of re-establishing her order with Scaevola, as she will be compelled to make an extended stay in Rome to supervise its re-establishment.

EDIT:
Italicized portion of "Captured Gods" is an edit.
 
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All in all a solid turn though it seems we are plagued by a generals worst nightmare, a competent enemy. Still, at least our general and legion seems to be a good shape and that is I think quite the bonus, especially for our first serious military endeavour.

In regards to the cohort, I can't really decide between the first and the third option and even the second one could be interesting if we intend to do more with gaul in the future. I think that going with the first option and trying to take on the enemy town is the safest option but considering the rather solid core of veterans in the Cohors Peditata that may a nearly as valid option where we don't have worry that much about or legionnaires being to stubborn/arrogant.


The priestess is certainly an interesting dilemma but I think we should go with a modified "mercy" option that sees us sending the priestess (and most of her artefacts/idols etc.) to Rome to be given into the responsibility of the cults there while leaving the temple standing (and ideally later staffed by some more pro-roman priestesses from "Rome"). It seems to be the most fitting choice considering our Social war plan and while looting temples and the like a time honoured Roman tradition I am a bit anxious due to the nature of the goddess (I would really not have to worry about peasants and the like deciding to help the goddess get revenge via poising us though I am unsure how real that risk is) and the fact that she also already seems to be worshipped in Rome and thus could lead to some issues with our priests and the like.

I am a bit more torn about the fate of the town - one the one hand I like to advocate for a lighter hand in dealing with defeated enemies but on the other hand the way they dealt with our messenger (and thus insulted Rome) practically calls for some clear retribution. If the leader was still alive I would argue for some draconian punishments for him to clear that slight while the general populace gets way with far lighter punishments but with him already dead that is sadly not an option. A such I have to admit that I am really tempted to go with the loot everything and Vae Victis option to make a clear statement about the fate about those continuing to rebel but on the other hand that might be a bit too much (and could easily result in exactly the kind of resistance we want to avoid in the first case) and I don't think we want to get a too bloodthirsty of an reputation that early.

Because of that I am tempted to go with either the middle of the looting as well the "open hand" options or perhaps do a write-in about maybe resettling them elsewhere in Rome (Spain, northern Italia or Africa) though the later option is likely beyond our current powers.
 
My last post here-

Suffice to say that in-character there are pretty good arguments for destroying and pillaging this town to avenge our messenger. However, IF we do that, we almost certainly have worse chances of ALSO taking the other town we were thinking of attacking. Because we'll enrage and motivate the defenders of that town, and spend time destroying this town that gives them time to prepare.

If I had more time I'd actually craft two plans, in accordance with this.
 
What are our aims here?

Personal enrichment or taking the other town and helping to win the war.

In my opinion, we should do all we can do to be able to quickly march to the other Samnite town in order to remove the threat from the legion's back.

But in order to be successful in the long term, we ought to make resisting us much harder.

To do this we need to divide and conquer.

There are several things we can do.

Removing the towns liquid assets while at the same time binding a lot of men due to needed repairs will reduce their ability to wage war.

Removing the priestess will remove a point to rally around without giving the Samnites a point to rally around. Not damaging the temple and simply taking her with us also will prevent her from becoming a martyr.
 
JamesShazbond said:
Scaevola came through big time for us. What do you get for the man who has everything? Maybe pieces for a new temple.
The tribunes continue to be useless, unfortunately.
Those bonuses to xp gain, combined with the bonus from our trait, makes this the military-focused level grinding masterclass I thought it would be and then some.

Alright, we voted for a hearts and minds campaign, so annihilating this place is off the table, unless we want to transition to Call it Peace. Even a Social War may require a few purges, but resistance this pathetic doesn't warrant it. That said, you can't just kill messengers and get away with it, and their leader killed himself, so maybe some extra looting wouldn't be out of line. It would also help develop ties with whatever cohort we choose.

Speaking of the cohort, the Gauls feel like a trap. Wild men and pacification campaigns do not mix. I feel like with Scaevola's assist to our reputation, we may have enough credit to manage the First Cohort. Our Command skill is strictly average, but we are good at talking, so we may be able to manage them. The noob cohort won't give us any trouble, but we'd have to make them good, so we don't get killed like an idiot.

I feel like saying fuck it and going for the attack on the town. We obviously shouldn't do this if we take the inexperienced cohort.

A tentative plan:

[ ] Who Dares Wins
- [ ] First Cohort
- [ ] Victory Over Death
- [ ] Loot most of the wealth
- [ ] An Open Hand
- [ ] Attack
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I agree with this it is the perfect amount of mercy and punishment taking there wealth and sealing there temple but leaving the town intact letting them know it was only by our mercy they were spared
 
Leave the temple where it is. Atellus is of the right background, education, and time period to maybe be a little cynical about religion (by Roman standards), but the legionaries are not. They tend to be immensely superstitious, and any ill-fortune the campaign suffers after desecrating/moving the temple will a) be blamed on this and b) cause morale to plummet. (The idea of moving the temple also misses the point of why it is important - its location, not its treasures).

I'm also extremely leery of any 'clever' write-ins to compel the Tutican militia to surrender. If I were the Samnite commander at Aeclanum, I'd immediately seek to impose my own narrative on the scenario - that the Roman knows he can't beat us in a straight fight and so seeks to undermine us with the threat of starving our families, as though he would not do the same even if we were to fall for his tricks. Even should he manage to deprive Aequum Tuticum of the means to feed itself, do you think that the men of Aeclanum and the rest of Samnium would let their kin starve? No! Then, my brothers, let us defeat this Roman jackel, etc. etc. terrible revenge, etc. etc. heads on sticks, etc. etc.

That's command 101. We've made a promising beginning, let's not outsmart ourselves now, yeah?

@Telamon Would the flames and smoke from Aequum Tuticum be visible from Aeclanum?
 
Caesar said:
Hmm. Have we any estimate whatsoever of the strength of the garrison at Aeclanum?
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The friends and family of the men you might try to kill aren't too eager to disclose organizational information, but you managed to learn that there are roughly a hundred and forty men from Aequum Tuticum at Aeclanum, reinforcing a 'militia' (read: bandits with a cause) of about ninety men, and whatever reinforcements or allies they've gotten from surrounding towns — which might be a significant amount, or a handful of untrained farmers.
 
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Telamon said:
The friends and family of the men you might try to kill aren't too eager to disclose organizational information, but you managed to learn that there are roughly a hundred and forty men from Aequum Tuticum at Aeclanum, reinforcing a 'militia' (read: bandits with a cause) of about ninety men, and whatever reinforcements or allies they've gotten from surrounding towns.
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Thank you.

After a little googling, I've determined that we could make it in ~roughly a day's march, first back to Beneventum (~20 miles) and then along the Via Appia to Aeclanum itself (~15 miles). Call it a day and a half to be absolutely sure. (The Via Traiana hasn't been built yet, so the first leg won't be over good roads.) We could go cross-country, but that'll probably be slower.
 
[X] Plan Carmen Sandiego

Yet another case of "the reasoning was convincing".
 
[X] Plan Carmen Sandiego

I'll be honest, capturing their Gods was my first thought. Looks like everyone is an expert in Rome these days.
 
[X] Swift Justice
-[X] Cohors Peditata
-[X] Write-In: Captured Gods. You show the priestess the mercy of Rome, sparing her order and her life- but on your terms. You order the men under your command to gather up the sacred artifacts and idols of the Grey Lady carefully, returning anything they have taken from the temple precincts. The goddess Mephitis will be honored- in Rome. Her temple will be taken apart and relocated. Visellia Mertia can take up the task of re-establishing her order with Scaevola.
-[X] Allow them to loot as much as each man can carry
-[X] An Open Hand
-[X] Attack

I prefer the less prestigious cohort for the ease of command. It will give us the chance to make a name for ourselves. If we achieve victory with the 1st cohort, it would most likely be attributed to their veterans. Meanwhile failure with a less experienced legion, would not be as shameful as losing control of the cohors primus.
I wanna spend as little time looting this town as possible. This should allow us to move more swiftly on Aeclanum, hopefully giving us an edge in the battle that awaits us there.
 
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Moving the temple is a stupid half measure (again, its location is the important thing about it), and if we want to take Aeclanum speed is the most important thing. Taking the Tutican harvest hostage slows us down and does the precise opposite of giving them an incentive not to fight

[X] Plan Sulla Redux
- [X] Cohors Primus
- [X] Mercy
- [X] Loot most of the town's wealth, leaving some few funds and the most hidden valuables behind. They will not be destitute, but they certainly won't be rich, either.
- [X] An Open Hand
- [X] You decide to launch an attack on Aeclanum, preparing the cohort to strike at a well-defended position. This, while not a true siege -- as Aeclanum has no walls worth mentioning -- will still be a battle of some note, your first such should you choose to strike.

Aeclanum has no walls because Sulla fired the town during the Social War. They have risen again, and can thus serve as our example of the Roman stick.

Edit: I have changed from minimal looting to medium looting, in light of discussion later in thread.
 
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[X] Plan Sulla Redux

@Caesar I must thank you for being an island of reason in this sea of overachievers.
I mean, i can get the reasoning of the whole "take the harvest hostage" thing even if i do not agree with it, but what was the whole point of relocating the temple? What exactly would doing that give us or rome that is worth organizing something like that in the middle of a war?
 
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[X] Plan: A different approach
- [X] Cohors Primus

- [X] Write-in: Compromise
The goddess deserves respect and yet the Samnites seem to need a reminder of Roman supremacy which is why you will forbid the looting of the temple but send the high-priestess and the most valuable artefacts and idols of the temple to Rome and Scaevola. You will also ask your patron to see for her accommodation and that a number of more trustworthy and reliable priestesses take up the position at the temple in Mephitis.

- [X] Loot most of the town's wealth, leaving some few funds and the most hidden valuables behind. They will not be destitute, but they certainly won't be rich, either.

- [X] Write-in: Velvet Glove
You will let Aequum Tuticum live despite their insult of Rome but have the leading families provide hostages (ideally young men and women) to ensure their compliance. Those hostages will be taken to Rome and brought up as true Romans by loyal and trustworthy families.

- [X] You decide to launch an attack on Aeclanum, preparing the cohort to strike at a well-defended position. This, while not a true siege -- as Aeclanum has no walls worth mentioning -- will still be a battle of some note, your first such should you choose to strike.
 
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[X] Plan Carmen Sandiego

The temple can't be left in its current location regardless of said location's importance, because it would remain a center of Samnite resistance even after they've been nominally pacified; at the same time, murdering its last priestess and looting all its valuables to be broken up and sold would be ill-omened while also galvanizing the present Samnite resistance.

As for taking Aeclanum, neutralizing the Tutican militia would remove probably between a third and half the strength of the defenses, making it possible to take the town while minimizing the losses among soldiers the legion will need at Nola. And unless we assume the Samnites roll up another genius commander who they can afford to leave away from their main force, I don't see any exhortations of future Samnite brotherhood to overcome the present reality that Aequum Tuticum can either accept our present mercy or trust that the other Samnite towns will be both willing and able to spare the tools and animals needed for the planting even after we finish marauding through Samnium.
 
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