Regarding FTL, Causality, as well as Special Relativity.

I have seen some concepts that have stages positioned along preset intercepts along the path of the ships such that a stage senses the ship approaching, burns to match the ship's velocity and position, docks, burns until it's fuel tank is empty, and then detaches with just enough reaction mass to dis-align it's vector and make room for the next stage to connect.

This obviously becomes less and less viable as the ship goes faster and faster, but the efficency comes from being able to use stationary launch platforms like an orbital rail launcher to add initial velocity to the boosters. Basically you add 10 or 20 5-50 mile long railgun (the rail gun is 5 to 50 miles long) shots worth of energy to the delta V you have to carry with you. You actually launch the ship and then fire booster tanks after it at a higher base velocity on overtake trajectories.

Your squishy passengers start off moving slowly and you can abuse the railgun's ability to fire the fuel with an initial acceleration measured in tens of Gs.
Or you could digitize the passengers, and send them at the speed of light using lasers and, optionally, relay stations. You'll still need to explore and colonize at sublight, but this can be largely automated.

Perhaps this sounds a little out there, but there are no physical limitations stopping us that I know of, and it'd be relatively energy-efficient.
 
Or you could digitize the passengers, and send them at the speed of light using lasers and, optionally, relay stations. You'll still need to explore and colonize at sublight, but this can be largely automated.

Perhaps this sounds a little out there, but there are no physical limitations stopping us that I know of, and it'd be relatively energy-efficient.
I like the idea of creating artificial wombs and shipping colonists out as frozen embryos. You then have automated systems raise your first generation. Then it doesn't matter if your ship cruises for 10-20 or even 100 years so long as your main power and computers hold out, and a big plutonium pile can generate electricity for hundreds of years.
 
I like the idea of creating artificial wombs and shipping colonists out as frozen embryos. You then have automated systems raise your first generation. Then it doesn't matter if your ship cruises for 10-20 or even 100 years so long as your main power and computers hold out, and a big plutonium pile can generate electricity for hundreds of years.

Yeah but then people bitch that it's "Horribly unethical" to send people to distant stars without their consent, and that it would be "Immoral" to have children raised in space by computers.
 
Yeah but then people bitch that it's "Horribly unethical" to send people to distant stars without their consent, and that it would be "Immoral" to have children raised in space by computers.
Yes, but when the choice is between an earth that is running out of biosphere and this is the last hope for humanity to continue life on a distant star... if not us then at least our children to carry on our legacy...

Well, that's a just bad ass base for a science fiction book.
 
Or you could digitize the passengers, and send them at the speed of light using lasers and, optionally, relay stations. You'll still need to explore and colonize at sublight, but this can be largely automated.

Perhaps this sounds a little out there, but there are no physical limitations stopping us that I know of, and it'd be relatively energy-efficient.
I want to kill the Lampreys.
 
Or you could digitize the passengers, and send them at the speed of light using lasers and, optionally, relay stations. You'll still need to explore and colonize at sublight, but this can be largely automated.

Perhaps this sounds a little out there, but there are no physical limitations stopping us that I know of, and it'd be relatively energy-efficient.
I like the idea of creating artificial wombs and shipping colonists out as frozen embryos. You then have automated systems raise your first generation. Then it doesn't matter if your ship cruises for 10-20 or even 100 years so long as your main power and computers hold out, and a big plutonium pile can generate electricity for hundreds of years.
A plus B.

STL robot ship goes out colonizes, carries digitized colonists and will assemble optionally biological bodies for them once the colony is sufficiently viable to sustain them.
 
A plus B.

STL robot ship goes out colonizes, carries digitized colonists and will assemble optionally biological bodies for them once the colony is sufficiently viable to sustain them.
We will likely be able to print the initial cells using crisper methods sooner than we would think. We may be able to save a TON of payload by shipping the tools to build tools to print humans.
 
Ok, but what has always bothered me is the Deeeeeeeeeep future. Any finite / bounded future is terrifying on an existential level. My current best hope is that dark energy grows quickly enough to cause a Big Rip before the Stelliferous ends. I believe that Big Bangs happen when dark energy grows strong enough to rip apart quarks. This will create a sudden incredibly dense quark soup. Hopefully we can figure out a way to pass information through to the ensuing quagma, resulting in the Xeelee Sequence.

Why the stelliferous? For a technological civilization surviving well into the degenerate era is perfectly feasible, and with some admittedly generous assumptions about technology and no proton decay even living into the black hole era is not out of the question. Either of those would be many times longer than the stelliferous would be.
 
Well my hope is that we can survive the big ripbang by transitioning into femtomachinery from inside the protection of a black holes gravity well. I figure this will be simpler if we are still in the relatively energy abundant stelliferous.
 
If we ever get traversable wormholes, the first thing I'm doing with them is testing to see what happens when someone tries to make a closed timelike curve. Depending on how it works, there are a few interesting possibilities.

Possibility #1: Wormhole go boom. Not too useful.

Possibility #2: Closed timelike curves lead to timeline forking. Can lead to shenanigans like colonizing the same star system fifty different times, and if alcubierre drives (or something similar) also pan out it becomes possible to plunder other universes early in their stelliferous period for resources.

Possibility #3: Actually overwriting history is possible. Nope, shut off the wormhole now, WAY too dangerous.

I personally consider Possibility #2 to be the most likely, on account of needing the fewest logical jumps.
 
If we ever get traversable wormholes, the first thing I'm doing with them is testing to see what happens when someone tries to make a closed timelike curve. Depending on how it works, there are a few interesting possibilities.

Possibility #1: Wormhole go boom. Not too useful.

Possibility #2: Closed timelike curves lead to timeline forking. Can lead to shenanigans like colonizing the same star system fifty different times, and if alcubierre drives (or something similar) also pan out it becomes possible to plunder other universes early in their stelliferous period for resources.

Possibility #3: Actually overwriting history is possible. Nope, shut off the wormhole now, WAY too dangerous.

I personally consider Possibility #2 to be the most likely, on account of needing the fewest logical jumps.
As far as we can tell, possibility #1 is what the laws of physics provide. (Via infinitely escalating "virtual particle" loops.)

If that somehow doesn't happen (how?), then it'll fall back to possibility #4 -- consistent timelines. You'd lose the benefit of having a definite past and future, but you'll only ever see a state of the universe with no paradoxes in it. You can't *overwrite* the past, but if you're the sort of person that would try, you'll find that the past already includes your not-quite-paradoxical actions.

Honestly though, it'd be #1.

Note: Virtual particles aren't real. They're an artifact of Feynman diagrams, and exist as corrections to the diagrams' failure of treating quantum fields as if they are particles. There are other formalisms, such as quantum lattice models, which drop the "particle" notion entirely and manage to give the right results without such IMO unintuitive and ugly hacks.

However, both models give the same results if you input a closed null or timelike curve.

If you enjoy reading very hard SF, then Greg Egan's novel Arrows of Time, the last of the Clockwork Rocket trilogy, includes a very interesting take on #4.
 
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The self-consistency principle always seemed to me like a ridiculous handwave born of a limited notion of causality. Same with the parallel timelines concept.

Xeelee Sequence time travel is the only form that ever made a lick of sense. Either it works like that or it doesn't work at all.
 
That is to say, for those who haven't read it ?

It's a possible side-effect of FTL travel as per relativity, there are no silly parallel timelines, the universe doesn't magically restrict your ability to do things in the past, and the universe doesn't give a wet fart about "paradoxes".
 
The self-consistency principle always seemed to me like a ridiculous handwave born of a limited notion of causality.
Except the self-consistency principle isn't something anyone came up with to explain what would happen in case of time travel. It's how all of physics works, and applying it to time travel is just saying there's nothing special about closed timelike curves, and they should be treated like any other situation.

The laws of physics aren't an algorithm. They don't say "In this state, this is what will happen." They're most easily expressed in terms of relations across a plane: Cut the universe in half along a 3D hyperplane, regardless of what angle that plane is oriented at, and what physics will tell you is how the conditions at one side of the plane relate to the other side. This is most obviously true for past-future, but you can apply the exact* same rules to left-right, up-down, or any other way you care to slice it.

Put another way, the equations of the laws of physics let you decide what the contents of one side of the cut must be, given complete*** knowledge of the other side. Though again, it's not an algorithm -- there isn't a computer program you can run, there's just equations that either add up, or not. "f(A) = f'(B)", you know A, so what is B? ...unfortunately, "f" is immensely difficult to compute at all, let alone reverse. If you can guess at B, you can check if the equality holds, but guessing B is difficult.

For instance... let's pretend we have a mirror. We'll cut the universe in half, past-future: That is to say, we do the usual thing and try to compute the future based on the past. Or vice versa, actually; the laws are time-symmetric, and really don't care. But in this case we're computing the future.

A photon hits the mirror. The photon bounces off. You get to watch yourself shaving.

In the above case, we had both the incoming photon and the mirror itself as part of the equation's left-hand side, the "past" half of the universe, and this constrained the right-hand side quite well. Sometimes, things can be less determinate. Let's say we cut the universe in half, west-east and right above the surface of the mirror. Our left-hand state now contains both the past and future of the photon...

What will the laws of physics let us figure out? There's a photon appearing to bounce right at the hyperplane, so in fact you can use pretty much the same mechanism as you used to compute that the photon would bounce off a mirror, to compute that there is a mirror. There also might just be another photon crossing over, though. If that was all you knew.

See, actually I'm understating it slightly. Your left-hand side contains a lot more: It contains half of planet Earth, and half the universe, and quite possibly the company that made the mirror. Physics will tell us absolutely everything there is to know about the right-hand side; the complete state of the universe. There's no difference between this case, and the past-future case.

Alternately, let's rotate** the situation slightly. We'll keep the hyperplane at past-future, like the first case, but instead of having a photon bounce off a mirror we now have two photons -- the past and future of the original one -- that are both coming from the past, and hitting the same spot on our hyperplane. Assuming they're high enough energy, what you'll see is the photons mutually annihilating and turning into an electron-positron pair...

(It turns out that positrons are electrons moving back in time, or vice versa, although that's a separate arrow of time from the thermodynamic arrow of causality.)

Now turn the universe upside down, or else your equations. Instead of matter creation, you're looking at matter annihilation.

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What's my point?

All of these situations are, in fact, the exact same situation. You can rotate the universe, or you can rotate your hyperplane, but the laws of physics remain the same regardless. Consistency constraints is how they work, and nowhere in physics, except for geometry, is the time dimension special. There is that metric asymmetry, yes -- we live in Lorentzian space, not Euclidean -- but that barely suffices to ensure thermodynamic causality, and thermodynamic causality appears to be an emergent phenomena, not something fundamental.

So I'd be astonished to see a resolution to time-travel that isn't just "the universe remains consistent", because this sort of consistency is how it always works.

===
*: Modulo the dimensional asymmetry between space and time, which has a fairly minuscule effect so long as you stay well away from null geodesics. Unfortunately photons... but I like the mirror example too much to stop.

**: Rotation of this sort is impossible to carry out physically, but perfectly fine on a diagram. Specifically, it's impossible to rotate smoothly across the speed of light -- hence matter cannot become tachyonic, or vice versa, as all real-world processes are smooth. For the purposes of presenting a different physical scenario, we can just do a jump-cut.

***: "Complete knowledge" means complete knowledge of the universal wavefunction, not just the non-interacting decoherent branch of it that the experimenter is sitting in. This can be a problem. In experiments it isn't much of one, and in the real world, thermodynamic causality allows you to estimate reasonably well what the past half of the universe practically looks like, since the other branches which you can't see will have a negligible impact on the future.

It does mean you can't actually figure out the contents of the east half of the universe by reading the complete, big bang to big rip, Akashic history of the west half, because you can't acquire said history... but that's not really any more true just because decoherence also gets in the way. Plenty of other things already did.
 
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Well my hope is that we can survive the big ripbang by transitioning into femtomachinery from inside the protection of a black holes gravity well. I figure this will be simpler if we are still in the relatively energy abundant stelliferous.
I think it is much more likely that humanity is extinct in a couple hundred thousand years, well before the Earth fails as a biosphere.
 
I didn't say it should?
Fair enough. Unfortunately, most people will intuitively say so, so if you say humanity will go away -- even if everything that makes it good remains, including the people -- then you can easily make enemies.

It's why I prefer to describe it as changing the nature of humanity, not replacing it.
 
Fair enough. Unfortunately, most people will intuitively say so, so if you say humanity will go away -- even if everything that makes it good remains, including the people -- then you can easily make enemies.

It's why I prefer to describe it as changing the nature of humanity, not replacing it.
I guess that I was trying to implictly point out that well... "but we'll likely still exist as transhuman mindstates instantiated in some sort of futuretech" probably doesn't actually assuage most people's existential fear.
 
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