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re:SPIRE

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[X] Ascendant

I swear to God if we play a lifeless nerd again I am paying Birdsie as much as it takes to KILL US ALL
 
[X] Aspirant -

The Tower seems to go out of its way to reward anti-social people. Let's change that.
 
I'm consolidating and Reiterating Some information here for conveniences sake

Ascendant: 3 Major Character Flaws

Aspirant: 1 Major Character Flaw or 2 Minor Character Flaws

In order to help fuel interest and discussion, here are some sample Character Flaws you could expect to get. It should at least signify how dysfunctional you can expect your character to be. These are only demonstrative examples, not necessarily specific traits you'll have yourself; you could instead of the below have an unhealthy obsession with saving people from dire circumstances or martyring yourself on metaphorical (or maybe literal) crosses, and more in that vein. Either way, you're some flavor of crazy.

Character Flaw: Brutal - You are not merely unbothered, but even exult in violence, eager for excuses to indulge as if it were a narcotic or a favored pastime. There is something musically beautiful about - not strife, not martial attainment in the sense of combat sports - but rather the simple event of a human form meeting with pure destruction, a skull shattering as it encounters your fist. You find hurting others vaguely satisfying, even while being hurt yourself still inspires vengeful sentiment. You find those who do not share this view contemptible, lacking a spine, and your esteem towards them diminishes as a consequence; an attitude which borders on disdain for the weak.

A minor variant: While you continue to find violent actions pleasant to indulge in, you understand this urge is not necessarily shared by others and do not find them any more contemptible. While you may still wish to solve problems violently and might even lose yourself momentarily, it'll never become an overwhelming or overriding feeling.

Character Flaw: Hubris - You find other beings rather tiresome and dull; not necessarily more difficult to empathize with, but simply... annoying, like you're not sure if you can find a reason for them to even exist. At best, they are amusements or very irksome sources of danger; at worst, they're infuriating obstacles to getting what you want. Even those stronger than you are people you roll your eyes at behind closed doors; nothing more than temporary roadblocks on your ascent. You were chosen after all, and you know as a matter of fact you're better than that bunch of nobodies. What a better world it'd be if they could conveniently line themselves up so you could kill them without putting in too much effort. Oh well, you suppose you'll have to earn your crown with hard work - shame they couldn't see your self-evident greatness the way you do.

A minor variant: Albeit tending towards self-assuredness in your resolutions and decisions, you do not find it any easier to deride others. Your sense of self-worth is slightly inflated, but not downright narcissistic.

Character Flaw: Death Addict - This is not suicidal or genocidal ideation; rather, the very idea of death excites you, in a completely different way than most people could ever hope to imagine... Ever since you were a child and saw your first corpse, you understood the concept of death was somehow special to you. You seek to incarnate your own ideal of death, a grim reaper avatar, so that you can marry Death Itself - the only bride ever worth contemplating. Naturally, it helps to show death your appreciation on the way there, by flirting with it as often as possible! You will make sure to frequently become embroiled in deathly dangerous affairs and to murder acceptable targets regularly.

A minor variant: You find dead bodies and morbid imagery to be unusually fascinating and will seek to reasonably incorporate them where you can. However, you are not literally on a quest to create a body into which the concept of death can incarnate itself so you can date it.
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Ascendant is better in pretty much all respects. It gets Spire favor, which allows it to see content and worlds we literally will never see as an Aspirant. Not without becoming as crazy as an Ascendant anyway and defeating the purpose of the choice.

The downsides are entirely personality based, with substantial wiggle room. We can pick some very interesting options, that spice up the character design/way we approach the world as opposed to making the experience less enjoyable.

Ascendant gets to scale easy, meaning we can focus on actually just exploring the plot and bank on that sweet sweet spire favor rewarding our drawback driven tendencies. Aspirant needs to grasp at every fraction of power to put up a fight in a world full of Ascendants.

And besides, the quest is called Re:Spire. I would like to play a character fully optimized to explore every aspect of said spire.
 
GenericName said:
Ascendant gets to scale easy, meaning we can focus on actually just exploring the plot and bank on that sweet sweet spire favor rewarding our drawback driven tendencies. Aspirant needs to grasp at every fraction of power to put up a fight in a world full of Ascendants.

And besides, the quest is called Re:Spire. I would like to play a character fully optimized to explore every aspect of said spire.
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That gets me curious. How often is this actually true in this style of quest? We've done a few of them but I can't say I remember them clearly enough to comment on them at the moment. Do we just end up chasing power anyways even if we take the immediate power option at chargen?
 
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OctarineShrike said:
That gets me curious. How often is this actually true in this style of quest? We've done a few of them but I can't say I remember them clearly enough to comment on them at the moment. Do we just end up chasing power anyways even if we take the immediate power option at chargen?
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Honestly looking at previous quests, starting powerlevel is basically unimportant since PC/Thread will chase power relentlessly regardless (Streetwalker, God Diversion, Immersion as examples). PC/Thread basically beelined for MAXIMUM POWER in those cases.
 
OctarineShrike said:
That gets me curious. How often is this actually true in this style of quest? We've done a few of them but I can't say I remember them clearly enough to comment on them at the moment. Do we just end up chasing power anyways even if we take the immediate power option at chargen?
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Major drawbacks are sufficiently debilitating (judging from examples), that they force suboptimal/flavorful play. That's my guess/hope at least, and why I view them as a net benefit.
 
Couple angles I don't think we see as much...

Ling Qi type character(Protagonist of Forge/Threads of Destiny, Vassal to another character who's a step or two above them and likely to remain that way for the entire story)


Eithan/Lindon/Yerin's Ascension Crew(The main cast of Will Wight's Cradle, Lindon gets uniquely ridiculous in the end due to protagonist status but everyone remains relevant and doing things across the entire series)
 
GenericName said:
Major drawbacks are sufficiently debilitating (judging from examples), that they force suboptimal/flavorful play. That's my guess/hope at least, and why I view them as a net benefit.
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Frankly speaking from experience in a few of the quests that we've been in, this group will 100% bum rush an ability to make Drawbacks inconsequential and then pick max powerscaling.

I think another Solomon is more likely than an actually flawed character.
 
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[X] Aspirant

Take a moment to smell the roses and enjoy the thorns, let's explore this setting from the ground up. Aspire to be less broken then those who came before us.
 
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[X] Ascendant

I think we need to go Ascendant because it gives better bonuses. After all, in character, we will inevitably start minmaxing our way to godhood like in every birdy quest ever, and that's not a very sane thing to do.
edit: Also, funny drawback idea:
Voices in your head: The voices in your head guide you. They speak using internet slang and won't shut up about some sufficient velocity, sufficient velocity for what?...
 
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Having read the Character Flaws a few times, I've come to the realization that I'm actually fairly put off by the Major variants and thus I'm put off by Ascendant. They feel so restricting and largely unpleasant. I don't want us to be forced into such a narrow personality and playstyle like that either.

None of them appeal to me and I think each one would make me enjoy the quest less. Of course, I can't be sure unless it actually happens, but it's making me feel iffy about the whole thing.

I'd suggest other people carefully consider if having three major flaws is really something they want. Because for me at least, even one of those is almost a dealbreaker and I certainly wouldn't choose any if I had the choice myself.

Two minors can still add interesting depth without it overtaking the entire essence of the character.

That's my thoughts, anyway.
 
[X] Aspirant

I accept I may be wrong about this, but Ascendant with its 3 Major Flaws is actually weaker than Aspirant, even though it is in theory a lot stronger, power-wise. That said, the Ascendant is easy to outmaneuver and manipulate, so all that power is going to be of little worth in my eyes. Better a weaker but more stable start.
 
Honestly, it feels that if the eventual chosen role is Ascendant, then there's more focus on being a one-man army, more about power and crushing opposition, less about social. But Aspirant... Aspirant is about the underdog, and the choice to not need to have a character flaw means we can actually work with people without needing to work around a character flaw or multiple.

Ultimately, I feel that voting for Ascendant is short-sighted for having a powerful boon right at the start but have to work around three character flaws that would also likely make us unlikable... I would rather have a character I can feel invested in.

[X] Aspirant
 
[X] Ascendant

(Relative) Mental stability, the greatest boon of all. Not that we're not going to be bee-lining for literally all the power we can.

Edit: However actually being decisive is hard
 
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Questionable said:
Frankly speaking from experience in a few of the quests that we've been in, this group will 100% bum rush an ability to make Drawbacks inconsequential and then pick max powerscaling.

I think another Solomon is more likely than an actually flawed character.
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They can't. The drawbacks aren't just any drawbacks. They're drawbacks the Spire has a specific affinity towards, which incentivize tower climbing/violence in some manner. My issue isn't necessarily power scaling in principle (this is a tower climbing game after all), my issue is not engaging with the setting or having a boring ass character (which we seem dead set on locking in given prior examples). Ascendant both immediately locks you in on the main plot and opens up more of it for you, while ensuring any character we make will be 3 deviations from anything near "normal".
 
[X] Aspirant
GenericName said:
My issue isn't necessarily power scaling in principle (this is a tower climbing game after all), my issue is not engaging with the setting or having a boring ass character (which we seem dead set on locking in given prior examples).
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Is it not engaing with a setting to struggle in advesary against it? Many heroes seek to change their world, rather than conform to its broken shape.
 
Derpmind said:
[X] Aspirant

Is it not engaing with a setting to struggle in advesary against it? Many heroes seek to change their world, rather than conform to its broken shape.
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Aspirant will not see as much of the world or challenges as Ascendant will. Specific Gates will only open for Ascendants, they'll be just as motivated to climb and pursue their own goals.

Aspirant will be some flavor of crazy (they also get drawbacks), they just won't be the optimal psycho type necessary to overcome or even attempt the various things the Spire will throw at us. We'd be sacrificing tower content for being able to do diplomacy and more optimized actions.

I want to see the Spire in full. I want to engage with this setting as a prominent chaotic actor. Not an optimized tactics underdog.
 
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