Dysphoria
A Shambling Mass
- Location
- Heck
- Pronouns
- Heck
You're telling me we could get Rachel a therapist whose efforts to benefit Rachel are enhanced by a wish? Sold!
Puella Magi Altera Factio
- Thread starter RecurringExtra
- Start date
You're telling me we could get Rachel a therapist whose efforts to benefit Rachel are enhanced by a wish? Sold!
Unironically, yes.
It also might increase the chances of the Collective successfully extracting her, if it ever comes to that. "Acting to benefit" is a funny phrase, and wishes are partially formed by intent.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's a special case because of the nature of Homura's time magic. Madoka has multiple timelines all focused on her, increasing her potential.
"I wish my efforts to build sustainable magical girl groups to be enhanced."
Shorter wishes are typically preferable, and this gets the intent across, I think. Although "enhance my efforts" is likely to manifest as a more subtle effect than possible alternatives, while "sustainable" would spread the impact more thin.
Last edited:
Personally, I'd like to keep advocating for a more personal wish than a wish that's trying to game the system, despite knowing I probably can't convince SV.
The reason we are becoming a magical girl in the first place is a result of the desire our Incubator self shows - to leave behind the limits of it's emotion-ridden human self and rejoin the collective. So I think a wish born from our more human side (perhaps with the self-delusion that it's "so we can better understand humanity through knowing the full scope of their experiences first-hand") is something more narratively interesting than whatever powers we can gain from a wish. I'd much rather a simple "I wish my mom was still alive," maybe even slightly optimized so she doesn't just appear out of the blue and leave everyone confused about how the dead have come back.
The reason we are becoming a magical girl in the first place is a result of the desire our Incubator self shows - to leave behind the limits of it's emotion-ridden human self and rejoin the collective. So I think a wish born from our more human side (perhaps with the self-delusion that it's "so we can better understand humanity through knowing the full scope of their experiences first-hand") is something more narratively interesting than whatever powers we can gain from a wish. I'd much rather a simple "I wish my mom was still alive," maybe even slightly optimized so she doesn't just appear out of the blue and leave everyone confused about how the dead have come back.
Dysphoria
A Shambling Mass
- Location
- Heck
- Pronouns
- Heck
…You make a good point! I mean, it is also pretty clear that Rachel's not nearly as good at being emotionless as she likes to think. I mean, like, twenty seconds prior, she was:
So, a wish that's in character is something that seems like something we could finagle… Maybe some sort of optimized emotional wish? Best of both worlds?
June 8th: Make a Wish
RecurringExtra
Designated Background Character
- Location
- Out of Focus
"I have several questions, if you are fine with answering." You state.
"I would have no issue doing so. What would they be?"
"The first is... less a question, and more a request, actually."
"And what would that be?"
"A guarantee. If I do this, if I prove successful enough in my assistance, promise me that you will try and get me out of here. I know it's... wrong of me to do such a thing, but the reassurance would assist me greatly in maintaining stability."
Your former self stares at you for several long, tense seconds. You are unsure of what is going through its mind. Just doing this much fills you with a shame greater than any you had ever experienced. You would doubt your own kind? What right do you even have to do such a thing? The seconds continue to stretch on, as it merely continues to stare at you. You force yourself to match its gaze, something which was once second nature to you. It was once so easy, just as easy as it was for it to do so now, and yet, with the form you inhabit that ease has long since vanished.
"Very well." It finally says. "I guarantee you that an attempt will be made in doing so should you prove successful. However, I lack the authorization to do anything more than that."
A sense of relief floods you in response. There was hope. There was a chance. You weren't like one of the contractees who signed away their very being without thought. You planned ahead. You weighed your options. You... should likely stop flattering yourself, as it is a waste of both time and mental activity.
"Second, what would you estimate are the chances of an extraction actually being successful?"
"That heavily depends on what you would define as a success. For an extraction of the most fundamental aspects of a being, the chances are relatively high, around 92.71%. For extracting the majority of a being, this drops down to 23.44%, and a complete and total extraction has a 0.985% chance of success without risk of contamination. Of course, there are countless other variables that are also in play, such as the type and condition of the body that the being has been put into, as well as the mental fortitude that the being possesses. That being said, the actual practice of extraction has not been in use for 3,849,105 years, as it was fully phased out and replaced by the much less resource intensive Incubator system, but the methods of employment yet remain ready for use."
Those were not very good looking odds. However, there were other variables, as mentioned, that played a role. You had survived this long intact, you could survive some more. You can make it, you know it.
"I recalled it being an old system, but is it really that old?"
"It was the first attempt used by the Collective for contracting, and quickly proved to have flaws that, in hindsight, should have been obvious. The program was shut down and the system discarded for a very good reason."
"Lastly, how much of a resource surplus would it require for an attempt to be made?" You ask.
"That is hard to put a fully quantifiable number on, as it varies greatly based on the potential of the various recruits. It could, in theory, be merely one, or as many as a hundred, if the quality leaned one way or the other. Your two friends-
They are not my friends. They are the vessels'." You quickly correct it, to which it stares blankly at you for a few seconds.
"...Your vessel's two friends alone would likely put you around 37.38% of the way alone by my estimates, although that is largely due to the one named 'Jessica' possessing an above average potential. Besides them, I would estimate around five to eight other contracts should allow you to reach the threshold, although additional assistance would always be appreciated."
A mere seven to ten contracts? You were expecting a much greater number, although the perils of survival were likely also being taken into account as well. After all, there is a fairly good chance that, if you are not careful, you wouldn't even survive that long.
"Now, I think it is time that we move to the most important matter, that of course being your own contract." Your former self says, moving the conversation along.
"Yes, although I am still debating on what exactly would be the best choice for a wish."
"An excellent question, one that philosophers of all species have debated since time immemorial. My suggestion would be a wish to maximize your own potential. Not only would that increase your own strength, but it would also increase the reduction of entropy as well. In truth, it would be the ideal wish for any magical girl who cared for their own survival first and foremost."
"It feels rather straight-forward, although I suppose that is the point. Like using a hammer, rather than a scalpel." Subtly was not exactly useful when fighting for one's life.
"Do you have any other questions?" It asks, to which you shake your head.
"Very well. Tell me, Rachel Abrams. What is the wish that shall make your soul gem shine?"
[ ] Wish to maximize your own potential, and by extension your strength.
[ ] Write in
The one prewritten option is simply the most in-character one I could provide, but the decision is ultimately up to you, for better and for worse.
"I would have no issue doing so. What would they be?"
"The first is... less a question, and more a request, actually."
"And what would that be?"
"A guarantee. If I do this, if I prove successful enough in my assistance, promise me that you will try and get me out of here. I know it's... wrong of me to do such a thing, but the reassurance would assist me greatly in maintaining stability."
Your former self stares at you for several long, tense seconds. You are unsure of what is going through its mind. Just doing this much fills you with a shame greater than any you had ever experienced. You would doubt your own kind? What right do you even have to do such a thing? The seconds continue to stretch on, as it merely continues to stare at you. You force yourself to match its gaze, something which was once second nature to you. It was once so easy, just as easy as it was for it to do so now, and yet, with the form you inhabit that ease has long since vanished.
"Very well." It finally says. "I guarantee you that an attempt will be made in doing so should you prove successful. However, I lack the authorization to do anything more than that."
A sense of relief floods you in response. There was hope. There was a chance. You weren't like one of the contractees who signed away their very being without thought. You planned ahead. You weighed your options. You... should likely stop flattering yourself, as it is a waste of both time and mental activity.
"Second, what would you estimate are the chances of an extraction actually being successful?"
"That heavily depends on what you would define as a success. For an extraction of the most fundamental aspects of a being, the chances are relatively high, around 92.71%. For extracting the majority of a being, this drops down to 23.44%, and a complete and total extraction has a 0.985% chance of success without risk of contamination. Of course, there are countless other variables that are also in play, such as the type and condition of the body that the being has been put into, as well as the mental fortitude that the being possesses. That being said, the actual practice of extraction has not been in use for 3,849,105 years, as it was fully phased out and replaced by the much less resource intensive Incubator system, but the methods of employment yet remain ready for use."
Those were not very good looking odds. However, there were other variables, as mentioned, that played a role. You had survived this long intact, you could survive some more. You can make it, you know it.
"I recalled it being an old system, but is it really that old?"
"It was the first attempt used by the Collective for contracting, and quickly proved to have flaws that, in hindsight, should have been obvious. The program was shut down and the system discarded for a very good reason."
"Lastly, how much of a resource surplus would it require for an attempt to be made?" You ask.
"That is hard to put a fully quantifiable number on, as it varies greatly based on the potential of the various recruits. It could, in theory, be merely one, or as many as a hundred, if the quality leaned one way or the other. Your two friends-
They are not my friends. They are the vessels'." You quickly correct it, to which it stares blankly at you for a few seconds.
"...Your vessel's two friends alone would likely put you around 37.38% of the way alone by my estimates, although that is largely due to the one named 'Jessica' possessing an above average potential. Besides them, I would estimate around five to eight other contracts should allow you to reach the threshold, although additional assistance would always be appreciated."
A mere seven to ten contracts? You were expecting a much greater number, although the perils of survival were likely also being taken into account as well. After all, there is a fairly good chance that, if you are not careful, you wouldn't even survive that long.
"Now, I think it is time that we move to the most important matter, that of course being your own contract." Your former self says, moving the conversation along.
"Yes, although I am still debating on what exactly would be the best choice for a wish."
"An excellent question, one that philosophers of all species have debated since time immemorial. My suggestion would be a wish to maximize your own potential. Not only would that increase your own strength, but it would also increase the reduction of entropy as well. In truth, it would be the ideal wish for any magical girl who cared for their own survival first and foremost."
"It feels rather straight-forward, although I suppose that is the point. Like using a hammer, rather than a scalpel." Subtly was not exactly useful when fighting for one's life.
"Do you have any other questions?" It asks, to which you shake your head.
"Very well. Tell me, Rachel Abrams. What is the wish that shall make your soul gem shine?"
[ ] Wish to maximize your own potential, and by extension your strength.
[ ] Write in
The one prewritten option is simply the most in-character one I could provide, but the decision is ultimately up to you, for better and for worse.
Last edited:
Dysphoria
A Shambling Mass
- Location
- Heck
- Pronouns
- Heck
I mean, the prewritten option and the witch-hunter wish seem like the two most solid right now, but I'd prefer not immediately voting before we've got a few more…
Also, Kyubey's just going straight for annihilating Rachel's mental state, immediately advocating for her to Witchher the vessel's friends future grief seeds.
@RecurringExtra Would any of the attempted system breaking work or nah?
Also, Kyubey's just going straight for annihilating Rachel's mental state, immediately advocating for her to Witch
@RecurringExtra Would any of the attempted system breaking work or nah?
[ ] A wish born from the Vessel's heart, to know a love that was denied. "I wish my mother never died."
My preferred option, though maybe with different wording.
My preferred option, though maybe with different wording.
Isn't anything "mere" about it, ngl. That's a lot of people to get to do a thing.
RecurringExtra
Designated Background Character
- Location
- Out of Focus
To somebody who was likely doing this for decades, if not centuries, seven to ten would seem like nothing at first glance.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's good to see it put forth so clearly the extent to which we're kidding ourselves
That's not our only concern, however. Survival is important, but we have to recruit people as well. How about this:
[x] I wish to better understand human emotion.
The Watsonian intent would be to get better understanding of how people work so we can manipulate them better. The Doylist intent would be both that, and to hit Rachel with a curve ball in how she's been viewing 'the vessel' this whole time. @RecurringExtra would this be fine, or is it too close to wishing for the capability to get people into contracts?
Mhm. Just pointing it out, for the thread's benefit.
- Location
- Around here
I feel like a wish of that nature this late into the game is going to monkey's paw something fierce. Like, maybe because the mom never died, the dad for some reason doesn't have the job he currently does, or the mom turns out to be a terrible mother, or, God forbid, the wish only prevents the mom from dying in childbirth, but it does nothing to prevent her from dying to, say, a stroke some seven or ten years after Rachael is born. There's too many variables. Plus, even if everything went well, if the mom ever learned about Rachael's involvement in turning the people around her into horrible abominations of magic, that would strain the relationship something fierce and possibly cause enough stress to cause Rachael to witch herself.
Frankly, I might be the only person here who doesn't think contracting is a good idea. From the perspective of a reader, a story where the main character is both active and not a magical girl sounds more interesting than yet another story about a magical girl whose wish games the system in some way.
RecurringExtra
Designated Background Character
- Location
- Out of Focus
I mean, it's fine, but it would likely be counter-productive to the goal of "getting out of here without being further contaminated by the human condition."It's good to see it put forth so clearly the extent to which we're kidding ourselves
That's not our only concern, however. Survival is important, but we have to recruit people as well. How about this:
[x] I wish to better understand human emotion.
The Watsonian intent would be to get better understanding of how people work so we can manipulate them better. The Doylist intent would be both that, and to hit Rachel with a curve ball in how she's been viewing 'the vessel' this whole time. @RecurringExtra would this be fine, or is it too close to wishing for the capability to get people into contracts?
Not sure which you're referring to specifically, but technically all of them would "work" it's more a matter of whether or not they'd actually end well.
Hmm
Honestly, I agree that we probably shouldn't try to optimize too hard. Character matters more, after all.
Plus, the GM *did* say that system breaks tend to either fail or result in certain doom- or, more likely, are simply never considered.
So there's little point in trying to optimize. The rewards will be offset by the cost, after all.
I'd also say that we should think in-character . . . But the issue with that is that Rachel would try to optimize, despite the issues. She's part Incubator, after all.
So, trying to optimize is actually in-character.
Therefore . . . What would she do?
Well, she wants to survive. The longer she lasts the more likely that Kuybey will re-integrate her. I doubt she cares about getting new friends. She doesn't particularly care about her body- or even really herself. She knows all the rules to this game. And she *really* wants to be an Incubator again. She hates that she had to feel things.
. . .
Honestly, wishing to just feel nothing ever again is a really in-character thing for her to do. But the issue with that is it'll kinda contradict the premise of this quest, as well as going against the wish that got Rachel into this situation in the first place. Plus, I don't really want to play as an emotionless husk.
So . . .
She doesn't really care for herself. Or, at the very least, she tells herself she doesn't. So I think she'd be fine with a machosistic wish, if that could give her more power.
On the wish front: Personally, I don't think the former would be fun. It'll be generally useful, but it would kinda max ourselves out. This also implies that we wouldn't need to experiment with our powers, because our potential would be maximized. So no need for Science! sessions.
This would be a tragedy.
So, relating back to what I was saying before, here's my vote:
[X] I Wish for my soul gem to the indestructible and incorruptible. This means that it cannot be destroyed or tainted. However, I know that magic has its costs. I don't have enough potential to negate them. So, in addition I wish for whatever costs I need to accomplish this, both natural and the excess that is no doubt required, be paid to me NOW so that I can achieve my impossible desires!
Here's my reasoning:
It's an attempted system-break by Rachel, something that she would definitely do to boost her power because of her Incubator mindset.
It doesn't negate the cost of the wish, which means that, according to my understanding of Madoka Karmic Balance, we should be able to do it.
Most people wouldn't, when given the opportunity to wish for anything, specifically wish to cause harm on themself. However, Rachel doesn't really care about herself. So as long as this is able to boost her power, she'll consider it.
It's efficient. Normally, the cost would be spread out and monotonous. It'll interfere for a long time. But with this? It'll be over with very quickly.
The reward, basically immortality, is too good to pass up. Who cares if the cost is steep? Who cares if your mere *vessel* has to endure a moment of hell?
Additionally, this is going to give us a bizarre powerset for us to play with. We'll get to have so many wacky Science! sessions.
Finally, if worst comes to worst, the GM can undo things by a few minutes and we can choose a saner option.
Edit:
Also, if the soul combustion is loud enough then it'll attract the notice of our friends, which means an extremely probable contract! We'll take our first steps so quickly!
Edit:
In case you couldn't tell, a major draw of this wish is that it is a tremendously bad idea that seems reasonable on the surface. It seems, to me at least, that Rachel could do this or something like it. Would she regret it? Definitely. Especially in that NOW. But this entire contract is a mistake regardless, so might as well make it a unique and horrific one!
Last edited:
As far as I can see, it is an attempt to bypass the characterization outlined so far. Rachel is dissociating something fierce and is willfully ignorant about a lot of things - to get that wish through, I dunno. A lot of things gonna need to be ignored for this to work. Then, if it works, a lot of character work that is meant to be the point of a story is cleanly bypassed. Then what?
I mean, yeah, but that's the fun of it. Still, it's easy enough to add a clause of something like "with minimal changes to the world" or something like that. Make it so that she wakes up tomorrow in the same situation/same place and her mom is alive, no questions asked.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...Hm. Yeah, that's a conundrum.
The least destiny backlash-inducing version of that wish would probably be something like "I wish I could raise my mother from the dead." Which obviously leads to major questions, but if you don't mind the monkey's paw in other places, it would still keep us in the same place we are now.
RecurringExtra
Designated Background Character
- Location
- Out of Focus
Um, just to clarify, that isn't what the wish in question is about. It's about maximizing strength, not about maximizing skill. So you'd still have to actually learn how to do things, it's just... you'd be stronger. It's quite literally about pure optimization, but you'd still have to experiment and come up with ways to do things, because you aren't wishing to become an expert in combat or something, which would, in contrast, be useful in the short term, but wouldn't do anything to counter-act the fact that you wouldn't be that powerful. Even with this, you wouldn't be super strong, just stronger. Hopefully enough to survive.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Okay, I'm overthinking this. I'll vote for my original idea with the same reasoning I gave originally: it'll give us important skills for magical girl life, and it'll be impressive to any potential contracts we come across (like with Mami and Sayaka). The given wish would be fine, but I'd like to focus on the recruiting aspect at least a little bit.
[x] I wish to be good at finding and killing Witches.
[x] I wish to be good at finding and killing Witches.
That's definitely a possibility.
Any contract here, even ones that aren't mine, are going to end badly. It's kinda baked into the situation.
And to be honest . . . There's a lot of wish-gaming around. That's probably the greatest flaw in my proposal- it's kinda like that. No, it is that.
However it will also go catastrophically wrong, which will make things *interesting*. That's what redeems it.
Because if we go through with it, we'll get a magic as bizarre and broken as Rachel's mental state. Something that is destined to break itself for a meaningless purpose, willing to turn pain into power *despite knowing all too well that it is completely pointless*. It's going to be weird, but shouldn't an Incubator MG be like that?