Power Games (Nanoha fanfic)

I think what's creeping me out is continuity of consciousness?
As @EarthScorpion says above; anything smart enough to be called potentially-sapient will probably be a serialised consciousness, which means that it's more like it "wakes up" every time it's summoned and is running on "sleep mode" when unsummoned.
 
As @EarthScorpion says above; anything smart enough to be called potentially-sapient will probably be a serialised consciousness, which means that it's more like it "wakes up" every time it's summoned and is running on "sleep mode" when unsummoned.

I'll buy that. :) Actually, it synthesizes well with the way that the canon Wolkenritter are linked to Hayate in Reinforce's absence. (Um...does that mean that a portion of the summoner's magical processing power is constantly being dedicated to maintaining their summons' existence even while disincorporated? That would explain what ES was saying about how they can "level up"...)
 
anything smart enough to be called potentially-sapient will probably be a serialised consciousness,
That's oddly aligned with modern moral sensibilities. I'd expect there to be a sizable faction that considers constructs subhuman and wars to be fought over it and such.

e: and the obvious explanation is "They did fight those wars. Guess which side won?" :oops:
 
Last edited:
Hey, the Wolkenritter are sapient beings who were created by a spell. So are Vesta and Arf. [1]

Technically, since Familiars come from normal animals, they're more uplifted than created. Though the point more or less stands.

(Which is why checking for brain death in a medical context requires a sustained absence of such, not just noticing said absence is present.)

Reminds me of the watch-words of hypothermia: A person isn't dead until they're warm and dead.

(Um...does that mean that a portion of the summoner's magical processing power is constantly being dedicated to maintaining their summons' existence even while disincorporated? That would explain what ES was saying about how they can "level up"...)

Much as with a computer in sleep mode, no processor power would be used, just some ram and a little bit of electrical power. I think what ES meant was they remember what happened before so they continue to gain experience and would thus become stronger over time.
 
That's oddly aligned with modern moral sensibilities. I'd expect there to be a sizable faction that considers constructs subhuman and wars to be fought over it and such.
Actually it's more that if you're putting in the effort to make a summon-construct that can think and learn, why would you make it so it can't remember previous times its been summoned for it to learn from?
 
Raising Heart around, she bent at the knees, preparing to kick off. "And that means that I'm going to save your friends! Are you ready, Raising Heart?"

[Let's go, mistress! We'll save them all!]

"You got it!"
Is this mistress supposed to be master? Raising Heart usually uses master.

I already made this post might as well point this out too.
on your side for now, but I don't have to like you!" she snapped. "You hurt my mother! More than once! And you attacked Arisa! And you hurt Fate! By hitting her in the back! You put her in hospital!" Her glare swept from Signum to Vita to Shamal, and petered out when it got to Zafira. "And... um... you're okay, I guess.
Missing the. "in the hospital"
 
Last edited:
I think what's creeping me out is continuity of consciousness? "Summon" implies "this critter was over there, and now it's here." But the way Gamesverse summons were explained in the infodumps, they don't exist when they're not present (as opposed to, say, the Wolkenritter, who are theoretically running full-time on Reinforce's systems whether or not they have incarnated mana-construct bodies and are just in "sleep mode" when not in use). So, there's no "Garyuu" per se, but "a series of Garyuus, each of whom has a life span of 'from when I summoned him to when I dismissed him.'"

Ergo, the creepy part. I found Garyuu being a simulated non-sapient intelligence run by the magical program manifested within the spell encoded in the Alpine bloodline sad 'cause I kind of liked Kamen Rider Bug. He was a big sweetie to Lulu. But the idea that he's a sapient program is chilling, since the summoning seems a lot like "I'm creating sapient life! And then I'm snuffing out my creation because it's more convenient not to keep on with the upkeep!" Which, if I remember correctly, is part of canon familiar creation that Gamesverse decided to do away with because, well, it's horrifying.

Edit: Please explain why I'm wrong. :)
Wouldn't there be continuity if his experiences were preserved upon dispersal?
 
Here's four questions about TSAB legal system: From what Aleph and ES have said I'm almost certain that killing a familiar/unison/other human-level non human intellect directly is murder if killing a human under the same circumstances is murder. Is someone who murders a familiar's master also on the hook for the familiar's death?

And would "killing" a hypothetical non-existential-threat Reinforce with functioning Reincarnation Program actually be murder assuming other legal conditions are met? Because she's technically not dead, just very severely inconvenienced, but anyone who succeeded in forcing her to rebuild herself completely did just put enough effort into trying to kill her that anyone this side of Olivie would be very very dead so the state has a very strong incentive to neutralize anyone else throwing around that level of lethal force.

How about killing a hypothetical human-level summon? One hand, they're not staying dead, on the other hand, that a third party can resummon them without loss of identity is a fairly lame reason to make stabbing/blasting/burning a sentient being to death only attempted murder.

Or for that matter what are the legalities of summoning a hypothetical human-level summon?
 
I'm almost certain that killing a familiar/unison/other human-level non human intellect directly is murder if killing a human under the same circumstances is murder.
Correct.
Is someone who murders a familiar's master also on the hook for the familiar's death?
Yes, though they might be able to argue for manslaughter if they didn't know that the familiar existed. Still responsible for the familiar's death, though.
And would "killing" a hypothetical non-existential-threat Reinforce with functioning Reincarnation Program actually be murder assuming other legal conditions are met?
The TSAB doesn't devote much effort to making laws pertaining to hypothetical situations that they have no reason to expect will come up. No such reincarnating person exists in the TSAB's jurisdiction at the moment, so it's a legal null area. Presumably it would be litigated against as attempted murder, or something in that vein.
what are the legalities of summoning a hypothetical human-level summon?
Honestly, at this point you're going to have to more rigorously define what you mean by "human-level". Summons are a bit weird because being summoned to fight things is literally what they're made for; even the smart "learning" ones aren't psychologically human, and so if your meaning is "has goals and aspirations of their own such as wanting to settle down and open a bakery", such things simply don't exist - they're artificial beings made as weapons and servants, and where they have intelligence it's to better serve those functions as a design goal. As a result, judging exactly how "human-like" they are is tricky - and the smart ones don't tend to be cheap. The legal space they occupy is, at present, something I haven't given an enormous amount of thought to, but from Megane (and just for practical reasons) we can conclude that summoning them is at the very least allowable in the line of TSAB duties.
 
I wonder if a familiar has ever killed their master. I guess it'd go on the books as a murder-suicide?
 
I wonder if a familiar has ever killed their master. I guess it'd go on the books as a murder-suicide?

Would that even be possible? From Vesta's experience in Game Theory, obedience to/affection for the master seems to be part of what's implanted in the Uplift, and would certainly have been a consideration of the Alhazredian types who invented the concept in the first place. Which on the one hand raises questions about mind-controlling sapient beings, but on the flip side, familiars don't start out as sapient beings*. It rather modifies the "human rights" discussion when we're talking about something that we're legally allowed to hit with a rolled-up newspaper when it goes to the bathroom someplace it shouldn't.

*Which reminds me of something from about five years ago, when my friend deathcurse was writing a story in which Nanoha was saved from critical injury by becoming Fate's familiar, and one of the issues to be dealt with was the way in which the master-familiar bond was going to screw with her psyche. Too bad she only wrote five chapters or so of that...
 
Honestly, at this point you're going to have to more rigorously define what you mean by "human-level". Summons are a bit weird because being summoned to fight things is literally what they're made for; even the smart "learning" ones aren't psychologically human, and so if your meaning is "has goals and aspirations of their own such as wanting to settle down and open a bakery", such things simply don't exist - they're artificial beings made as weapons and servants, and where they have intelligence it's to better serve those functions as a design goal. As a result, judging exactly how "human-like" they are is tricky - and the smart ones don't tend to be cheap. The legal space they occupy is, at present, something I haven't given an enormous amount of thought to, but from Megane (and just for practical reasons) we can conclude that summoning them is at the very least allowable in the line of TSAB duties.

Honestly, take the example of Garyu-type summons as an example of a high-functioning familiar, because he certainly appears to be smarter than Lu's bugs in canon.

Garyu does not fear death. He will follow suicidal orders if his master wants him to. He has no reason or capacity to fear death; only his summoner's death. If he's destroyed in the line of duty, the summoner can instantiate a new Garyu - and if he transmitted his data back to the summoner rather than forcefully being destroyed before he can do that, his next instantiation will integrate the combat data from the previous instantiation.

I suspect, legally, a summoned creature like that is more akin to a Device, legally, than a familiar. They're a tool made by their master to carry out a certain task.
 
*Which reminds me of something from about five years ago, when my friend deathcurse was writing a story in which Nanoha was saved from critical injury by becoming Fate's familiar, and one of the issues to be dealt with was the way in which the master-familiar bond was going to screw with her psyche. Too bad she only wrote five chapters or so of that...
For anyone else who's curious, it's Fanfic: A Familiar Life Ch 1, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha | FanFiction
 
I wonder if a familiar has ever killed their master. I guess it'd go on the books as a murder-suicide?

Closest I can think of is Arf attacking Precia, interestingly against Fate's wishes. (Tho I have often wondered if Arf was responding to subconscious urgings from Fate.)

I suppose if a familiar was designed to be complex enough, and then was abused by their master, that could override the usual Master/Familiar bond.
 
Honestly, at this point you're going to have to more rigorously define what you mean by "human-level". Summons are a bit weird because being summoned to fight things is literally what they're made for; even the smart "learning" ones aren't psychologically human, and so if your meaning is "has goals and aspirations of their own such as wanting to settle down and open a bakery", such things simply don't exist - they're artificial beings made as weapons and servants, and where they have intelligence it's to better serve those functions as a design goal. As a result, judging exactly how "human-like" they are is tricky - and the smart ones don't tend to be cheap. The legal space they occupy is, at present, something I haven't given an enormous amount of thought to, but from Megane (and just for practical reasons) we can conclude that summoning them is at the very least allowable in the line of TSAB duties.

Honestly, take the example of Garyu-type summons as an example of a high-functioning familiar, because he certainly appears to be smarter than Lu's bugs in canon.

Garyu does not fear death. He will follow suicidal orders if his master wants him to. He has no reason or capacity to fear death; only his summoner's death. If he's destroyed in the line of duty, the summoner can instantiate a new Garyu - and if he transmitted his data back to the summoner rather than forcefully being destroyed before he can do that, his next instantiation will integrate the combat data from the previous instantiation.

I suspect, legally, a summoned creature like that is more akin to a Device, legally, than a familiar. They're a tool made by their master to carry out a certain task.
So it's destruction of private property. We have laws against that, right?
 
No, it would depend heavily on the circumstances, because context matters in law. Why is the Garyu summoned in the first place? Is it on a mission and you cut it in half while trying to stab Megane? Has Lutecia decided to go down to the shops with a seven-foot insectoid bodyguard and you just randomly started firing AA-rank shooting spells everywhere for whatever reason? Was it crossing the street to rescue a cat stuck in a tree and you hit it with your car by accident? Do you just really have something against summons/bugs/Belkan Rare Skills?

Ultimately, unless the plot takes a side-turn into a court of law - and let's be honest, most of the characters likely to end up in the defendant's docket have rather larger crimes to be grilled on than "I squashed a bug (summon)" - this isn't really relevant to the story, and you've got about as much detail as we're willing to go into on the subject.
 
Ultimately, unless the plot takes a side-turn into a court of law - and let's be honest, most of the characters likely to end up in the defendant's docket have rather larger crimes to be grilled on than "I squashed a bug (summon)"

'Licia: "They arrested me for being just too awesome."

Chrono: "No, we didn't."

'Licia: "Oh, cool, that means I'm free to go, then."
 
'Licia decided shortly after leaving that "Alicia" is too long and boring a name to use, and decreed that she will heretofore be known as 'Licia the Magnificent and Awesome to all and sundry.

WoG here. This is canon. :p
 
'Licia decided shortly after leaving that "Alicia" is too long and boring a name to use, and decreed that she will heretofore be known as 'Licia the Magnificent and Awesome to all and sundry.

WoG here. This is canon. :p

It goes with the haircut she has acquired. Fate can keep the haircut that she's had since she was six. 'Licia is her own woman and she has her new short-cut picked up from the Numbers because Sein got sticky food in her hair.
 
Was finally able to get around to finishing this and all I can say is that you nailed it Aleph and that regardless of whatever anyone else says this story is a masterpiece and you are without a doubt one of the best writers on this forum.

As for more detailed analysis (I promise to keep it under a thousand words this time) the element that stood out most to me is that you really, really nailed it with the sense of grief and loss over Precia and Linith's deaths ( I admit I cried a little at the recording and funeral scene) without it being over the top which is a difficult things to do under even the best of conditions, so Kudos to you.Indeed I feel these segments in both this chapter and the previous ones really showcase your strengths as a writer at being able to breathe life into emotionally charged character interactions such that the reader feels as though they are part of the scene rather than passively observing, which allows them to organically accept the themes you are trying to convey without it feeling forced.

The rest of the chapter was also well done and managed to convey the sense that life goes on no matter what and that you need to make the best of it, which given the themes of the story as a whole seems very appropriate. In particular your use of humor was well done as it took some of the edge off of the frankly rather grim subject matter without making light of it, which is always a good thing.Lastly you did a good job setting up everything for the next story, which I am very much looking forward to.

As for my views on the work as a whole, I loved it immensely for essentially the same reasons I loved this chapter, though I stand by my points in the last overly long bit of analysis I wrote, though your decision about reducing chapter size will probably solve that.

Beyond that I disagree with @universalperson's first point about things feeling disjointed. Thinking over why I disagree I think the reason is because I felt things were building towards Precia's death throughout the story and that her death and funeral were the real climax of the story, rather than the fight with the book, which on the whole did feel like it was there to provide context for this section of the story line as well as set up for latter arcs, rather than as the main emotional and thematic thrust of the work that it was in A's. On the other hand I do agree somewhat with @universalperson's second point about foreshadowing, but I found that to be a fairly minor issue that I did not even really notice until I read their post.

So on that note I would just like to thank you for taking the time to post such a masterpiece for our perusal Aleph. I would also both like wish you the best of luck in all of your endeavors and let you know that I (and probably everyone else who follows this thread) am eagerly looking forward to the next installment whenever you get around to posting it.

Sincerely, Smartphone
 
A question to @Aleph . When Earthscorpion finally starts "Hide and Seek Games", will a post saying that "Hide and Seek Games" has been started be made in this thread?
 
Back
Top