Power Games (Nanoha fanfic)

[Jong]

Considering Aleph and ES seem to be going for an aversion of the Earth being *Super Special*, probably not exceptionally fast?

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I think that DS civilization actually develops faster, seeing as how they have higher standards of living than first world countries on Mid and other TSAB core worlds after multiple apocalypses. The surprise would probably come from how high civilization can develop in the absence of magic. It would be like a Flintstones or steampunk world. The large population is just a natural consequence of advanced civilization + no dimensional emigration + no apocalypses + Type I planet (ideal habitat, native human civilzation, long history)

Now I'm fairly certain that this isn't just my headcanon and that there were some posts mentioning this, but Earth actually has a *Super Special* backstory! UA-97 is actually a sister dimension to Al-Hazred which budded off in a dimensional splitting event about 70,000 years ago (coinciding with irl genetic bottleneck and Lake Toba supervolcano eruption) and on one side, all the mages were ded and on the other they survived. I'm not sure whether this was WoG or WMG though.

Of course something like this isn't going to totally extirpate magic genes from the population, but would have wiped out 100,000 + years worth of magic tech tree advancement, at the early bits where it is the slowest. I also like to think that Earth mages are rare because our genepool hasn't been infested with Al-hazredian engineered gene variants.

Now I'm actually really curious about Akkamar's backstory. I mean, they were probably like a small outpost on an incompletely terraformed deathworld and they somehow survived and rebuilt their civilization?

 

[DezoPenguin]

Well, to add to the "theme" discussion, Nanoha's perfect world was actually a two-part one. Everyone survived and was saved and was happy, yes - she perhaps learned the wrong lesson from her dad eventually getting better. But there was another, arguably more important element to it, which was that everyone got along.

That's something Nanoha was still clinging to at the end of Game Theory. Even at the start of Power Games. The Jewel Seed Incident taught her, by the end, that the TSAB were ultimately good people, and she still loved Yuuno as much as Fate despite choosing to go with the Testarossas. And as a nine-year old girl, she clung hard to that hope that eventually, with enough talking things over and fighting side by side and possibly mutual beamspam pointed at each other's faces, things would work out and her friends would all be friends with each other too.

*snip*

If you like, the narrative takeaway Nanoha got from Game Theory was "enough effort can solve any problem, and your enemies can still be good people". The narrative takeaway she got from Power Games is "some problems can't be solved and good people can still be your enemies. But it's worth fighting for a better world regardless."

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Thank you; that's pretty helpful stuff, and it balances out what Nanoha's experiencing in Power Games more appropriately (or at least, makes it epiphany-positive). I'd missed that reading entirely, which was probably lazy thinking on my part because it's something that the original S1 was actually less idealistic about: in S1 Precia Testarossa was too broken to be redeemed or get along in any way; she was extended the hand of friendship (after being extended the pink beams of friendship, or at least her base was), and she slapped it away.

So in this case, Power Games' Nanoha's major epiphany was to move towards S1 Nanoha's understanding of the universe, then? (And interestingly, still leaves her just as much on the path to getting shanked by a Type IV, or its actual equivalent, in a couple of canon years...)

And yes, regarding the chapter length, I'm getting sick of it too. I didn't want to switch mid-story, but you will be pleased to hear that future stories in the Gamesverse series will be done in the shorter 5-10k chapter format of Overlady and Of The Stars.

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Yay!

Most folks who DO discover magic won't have Devices helping them.

And it may have happened before... Salem Witch Trials? Joan of Arc?

History has taught us that people with powers REALLY don't wanna stand out, much.

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Imma just going to toss this in: I really dislike the idea in fiction that there were real power-users in the Salem Witch Trials. Mainly because it means that on some level, in that fictional universe, the judges were doing what they were doing out of good reasons and sound (if overblown) judgment. Even if all it does is move the bar from "completely innocent people were murdered by the legal system due to religious zealotry, hysteria, and a bit of greed" to "completely innocent people were murdered by the legal system because that system was bigoted against their beliefs and superpowers" it...kind of trivializes things.

(Come to think of it, I think I may have to go make a post in the "Cliches I dislike" thread on this.)

It's special in the same way as a dancing bear. It's not how well it dances, but that it does so at all.

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Indeed. The weird thing about UA97 is that it's managed to come up to "slightly sub-scifi" tech levels without having any knowledge at all of the major way that things work in the entire tech base that we'd heard of. It's like how...we'd react if we encountered a remote alien culture who'd somehow managed to have 1970s tech levels that don't use electricity in any way.

 

[Jonen C]

IIRC, in the (very roughly) approximately 10,000 years of human history we can track with any awareness, there have only been a bit under 500 years without a good sized war going on somewhere on the planet, and none in the last... 150 years? So... we're a violent little bunch of monkeys.

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History is defined as there being a written record.
For most of the world, that record is considerably less than the maximum 10k years.
In some places (thinking Australia, admittedly), prehistory ended less than 1k years ago.
Over the past millenia (which is stretching the period of reliable records on a global scale to the point of absurdity), periods of global outbreaks of peace exist only as coincidental cases where wars end and people are to exhausted to immediately start new ones.
Though on the whole, most of those wars were fairly small affairs.


Edit

That is to say, the Knights were built to be respositories of [knowledge scanned from individuals]. The Knights themselves were not based on living people who were uploaded, but Signum now has several of Fate's scything moves.

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Signum: "Overall, v. useful for fighting while armed with a scythe. Recommend do not fight with one if at all possible. 2/10, probably won't ever use but good to gave in a pinch."

 

[Llamaoftrauma]

Yes, but Word of Seraph here - protagonist-centred morality is objectively not true in the Gamesverse and so treating it as if it is is factually incorrect.

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You can't just say it's 'not true'. It's not a matter of truth, it's a matter of how I wish to read it. This is like saying it's factually incorrect that I like Pumpkin pie. To declare that factually incorrect is insanity. It doesn't matter who Seraph is, they aren't an actual Monotheistic Deity capable of rewriting reality to their whim, so when they say protagonist centered morality is objectively not true in a story, they're an ant raging at the hurricane that is the readers making their own choices. I assume what Seraph really said was that the narrative being written won't have the protagonists being treated like the good guys if they're acting the bad guys. Which is fine. Good even. It's what I'd expect from a work this well written.I AM THE ONE BUYING INTO PROTAGONIST CENTERED MORALITY. It matters not what the author is selling.

She wouldn't be the hero. She'd be a nuclear armed terrorist. And the narrative would treat her that way.

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Which, again, goes back to protagonist centered morality. I cheer for Team Nanoha, not because she is the hero, but because she is the protagonist. Your statement shows we're talking about completely different things. And no, calling her a terrorist at that point is just stupid. Monumentally stupid. She's more powerful that many independent nation states, and her only clashes with TSAB were in self defense. There's also the ridiculous notion that setting up your own nation state is inherently an evil act, and wouldn't be possible for Nanoha to do while still being a hero. That notion is, frankly, insane as well. That she won't, because this Nanoha for all the ways she hilariously awesome in this story, isn't the right kind of awesome to set up her own sovereign dimensional nation at the age of 9, is immaterial to the fact that she has the firepower to do so if she wished and that TSAB has to be completely off their rocker to not realize that (at least, once they read all the reports from this incident). The only thing keeping Team Nanoha from setting up a psuedo-Belka state is Team Nanoha either not wanting to, or not thinking of doing so. This is something so many people overlook in settings where personal power ranges from "random civilian" to "I am become death, destroyer of worlds". The main characters in such settings are almost always powerful enough to create their own nation state through their personal power alone. You don't have to be the strongest in the setting to do so, only stronger than the people that wish to contest your claim.

Also, if it really came down to it, the TSAB would grab a strike force of Zest-level combatants. That is what it was preparing to do it wipe out the Mariage. You cannot out-escalate an interplanetary superstate. Do not try. It is stupid to do so. What it can manage to do right at arm's length in a neglected sector far from the core regions is not comparable to what it can do when it really tries - and is given reason to try.

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You miss the entire point. You don't have to be militarily stronger than NATO to be an independent nation on Earth. The fact that India would get crushed under NATO's military might doesn't invalidate India's existence. As long as she isn't setting up in TSAB dimensional space, she doesn't need to out-escalate TSAB. She needs to have enough firepower in her corner that TSAB is willing to concede that peaceful coexistence is better than war, as the Principality of Team Nanoha encompasses just yet another non-administrated world or three. That's a level of firepower she already has, assuming TSAB isn't ran by people with far too much ego and not enough brains. ESPECIALLY if the obvious thing doesn't happen and Jail doesn't run off with Alicia. Unlike Precia or Jail, she was never a part of TSAB. Hence, my entire point that TSAB has no legal standing to treat her as a criminal, and she's powerful enough that TSAB can't say 'screw the law' and treat her as one anyways without reprucussion. Their options, as I laid out, are escalate to war or move to diplomacy. And I wonder what most the constituent states are going to think about going to war with a pair of 9 year olds and a 6 year old for having the audacity to not surrender and let the TSAB potentially murder the 6 year old for the crime of existing, assuming Hayate doesn't join Team Nanoha Hugs and Homecooked Meals. Albeit, going to war with the current owner of the book of darkness would be a much easier sell.

Well, it's not like nations haven't ever done something incredibly stupid and shady before. It just has a nasty tendency to bite them in the ass. Consequences a thing, even if they aren't bad enough to topple a dimensional Superpower on their own.

Just how fast do these people develop?!"

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Depending on how common it is to come across worlds where the natives can't use magic, and how complete the history books are, I can see Earth's development throwing people for a loop. Imagine for a moment that you're looking at a civilization that landed a man on the moon, but never developed electricity. Funny image of that aside though, I'm pretty sure Earth's only redeeming quality to the greater D-Space community is the population.

 

[Firedon]

Okay, bit late and I won't go into attack names unless requested, as much as they make me cringe (Tödlichschlag, brr, canon why?).
Also, some have already been mentioned, but that doesn't stop me!

Spoiler: German

"Oh Buch der Dunkelheit, dir befehle ich deiner Dienerin 'Wiederherstellung' die Authorität zu verleiehen ihre Pflichten an den Wolkenritter des Buches der Dunkelheit auszuüben!"

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As has been noted, it's Autorität. And you've had an 'e' sneak its way into verleihen.
Lastly, since you have a 'den' here, it should be 'Wolkenrittern'. Same way the 'des' transforms Buch into Buches.

"'Wiederherstellung', mit der Authorität die dir verliehen worden ist befehle ich dir die Gesundheit der Wolkenritter des Buches der Dunkelheit vollständig herzustellen!"

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Autorität
And this has also been noted before, 'her(zu)stellen' would be produce or something similar, so while that could be what you meant, 'wiederherzustellen' could be more appropriate if you meant that Wiederherstellung should restore the Wolkenritters' health instead of simply creating it.

"Oh Buch der Dunkelheit, ich befehle dir den Wiederherstellungsprozess deiner Wolkenritter einzuleiten, auf daß sie mir dienen mögen."

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Not sure if this would be a genuine error, but every other command she issued like this ended in an exclamation mark, while this one has a full stop.

"Oh Buch der Dunkelheit, beende den Wiederherstellungsprozess deiner Wolkenritter! Verwirf was du bisher getan hast! Höre meine Befehle und nimm stattdessen das Werk deiner Dienerin 'Wiederherstellung' und akzeptiere es als dein eigenes! Wenn du das getan hast, führe den Wiederherstellungsprozess deiner Wolkenritter fort!"

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First I'll go for the easier one. It should be Eigenes, since the way the sentence is constructed makes it a noun.
I'm iffy on the marked sentence, since it seems to say "Scrap/discard what you've done before" and while it's clear that it's targeted at the next step of the restoration process, it can also be read as Hayate telling the book to scrap the protoforms for the Wolkenritter it just constructed. My suggestion would be to maybe replace 'bisher' with 'früher'.

"Buch der Nachthimmel!" she shouted. "Deine Diener 'Verteidigung' und 'Archiv' sind verräterisch! Ihre Autorität entziehen, ihre Kassen leer und warf sie für immer aus!"

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First part, Buch der Nachthimmel. I assume this is based on the Tome of the Night Sky? If so, you should propably use Buch des Nachthimmels because it's singular. What you have here is the Tome of the Night Skies.
For the second part, I'll just quote Taiboss, since they made a pretty good correction, although you can leave out the second comma. Additionally, 'warf' is a past form. And well, the middle part with Kassen/Speicher really does depend on what you mean with it. I assume the Speicher correction makes sense since it'd mean something like 'empty their memory' in computer terms(as lacking as my knowledge of those is), while Kassen is the plural of Kasse, the word for cash register.

Entziehe ihnen ihre Autorität, leere ihre Speicher, und wirf sie für immer aus!

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[DezoPenguin]

Which, again, goes back to protagonist centered morality. I cheer for Team Nanoha, not because she is the hero, but because she is the protagonist. Your statement shows we're talking about completely different things. And no, calling her a terrorist at that point is just stupid. Monumentally stupid. She's more powerful that many independent nation states, and her only clashes with TSAB were in self defense. There's also the ridiculous notion that setting up your own nation state is inherently an evil act, and wouldn't be possible for Nanoha to do while still being a hero. That notion is, frankly, insane as well. That she won't, because this Nanoha for all the ways she hilariously awesome in this story, isn't the right kind of awesome to set up her own sovereign dimensional nation at the age of 9, is immaterial to the fact that she has the firepower to do so if she wished and that TSAB has to be completely off their rocker to not realize that (at least, once they read all the reports from this incident). The only thing keeping Team Nanoha from setting up a psuedo-Belka state is Team Nanoha either not wanting to, or not thinking of doing so. This is something so many people overlook in settings where personal power ranges from "random civilian" to "I am become death, destroyer of worlds". The main characters in such settings are almost always powerful enough to create their own nation state through their personal power alone. You don't have to be the strongest in the setting to do so, only stronger than the people that wish to contest your claim.

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Dude, Team Nanoha is not a "nation-state" because Team Nanoha consists of six people: Nanoha, Fate, Vesta, Arf, Alicia, and the dying remnants of Precia Testarossa. Four of whom are in fact citizens of Bureau worlds anyway. That does not constitute a "nation," (seriously, this is what the word means ) and it's an absurdist reduction of the definition of a "state." The leader is Precia, who is literally a wanted criminal under legitimate Bureau law. You're basically arguing that the United States of America would have to consider the Jesse James gang a foreign nation if they happened to recruit a couple of non-Americans to assist in their crimes.

 

[mothematics]

I AM THE ONE BUYING INTO PROTAGONIST CENTERED MORALITY.

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That's very nice, now please stop bludgeoning people with it, mmkay?

 

[Iron Roby]

Yay, a second "epilogue"! (I get that it was necessary for the lotus eater prank, but seriously, we are going to get at least one more epilogue and together they will be long enough to be a major book partition, not some concluding afterword)

Thoughts:

First, I was very amused how everyone was treating Nanoha, like some sort of jolly viking berserker with a nuclear-powered cannon - someone who might mean well, but who's proclivity for destructive violence has to be carefully guided and pointed at the right enemy at all times, while also constantly having to remind her that "collateral damage" is a thing and a bad one. Even Fate didn't deny that, but was more like "I know how you are, but I still love you".

I'm again hoping that she doesn't actually have any genetic berserker lineage, I feel it would cheapen it some. I really want her to be naturally that reckless and bloodthirsty, to have the contrast with her morals and friendliness. She really is a boisterous bruiser in the body of a cute 9-10 year old.

Second, there were some nice idealistic speeches from Nanoha and Hayate and a nice unvoiced rejection of Gil's path from Chrono (If he would only say things like that out loud more, people would like him better, but that's just like him). Gamesverse is named after a method that can be used to manipulate people and win at all costs, so its nice to see it not leading into praising "hard men/women making hard decisions" approach, but showing how it's still merely a method, not a goal and that people with goals as idealistic as Nanoha and Hayate can, even if they won't get all that they want, still win and not be screwed over, if they just try hard and competently enough.

I liked how Hayate's command to get full admin privileges was formatted like a knightly challenge to a duel. That Belkan programming, very chivalrous. And was all that German from Google Translate? Because it translated suspiciously well in there, like it was born and made for that.

And I appreciated how, instead of a turn-based RPG final battle in the canon, where everybody just fired off their ultimate attacks obediently in a row at the Defense Program, Signum and then Chrono took charge and there were actual real time tactics involved. There was an obligatory scene at the end where they did most all fire their big attacks, but at least they had the courtesy to do that all at the same time.


As for any criticism to offer, really, a monster like the (corrupted parts of) Book of Darkness and 16 mentions of "tendril", 1 "pseudopod" and only 1 "tentacle"!? Even if "tendril" is probably a more technically correct description for narration, to hear even a young Japanese girl like Nanoha use it instead of "tentacle" was just jarring. She has probably been eating takoyaki and other octopus-foods, that would give Lovecraft a nauseated panic attack, for years, while tendril should be a pretty technical botanic term, if I have my understanding of English right about the matter.

And with that incredibly important point of criticism out of the way, I'll eagerly wait for the Custom Epilogue 'Really Really Epilogue 3' now. Hope you and ES won't run out of coolant.

 

[pressea]

One of the parts I like most about this chapter is that it feels like Hayate really earned her Ace status. She always felt like she couldn't do anything useful by herself in canon, and in this she's pulling off this

All she had to do…

… was wait…

… and aim…

… and act.

A white wire sprang out from her hand in a casting that Shamal would have been proud of, flashing upwards through the debris and ongoing battlefield. It sought, struck, and coiled around a single, specific bridge in the cracked and crumbling structure; exposed by the violent growth and war of those around it.

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without being Unisoned.

I hope Nanoha hasn't given up on trying to get her friends to get along with each other. That's an ideal worth striving for as much as saving everyone.

 

[Llamaoftrauma]

Dude, Team Nanoha is not a "nation-state" because Team Nanoha consists of six people

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No. Team Nanoha is not a nation state because they choose not to be. They have the firepower to take over pretty much any non-administrated world they choose. The lack of population isn't an issue, because they can get one. They can be heroic about it too and find some shitty despot somewhere to overthrow.

You're basically arguing that the United States of America would have to consider the Jesse James gang a foreign nation if they happened to recruit a couple of non-Americans to assist in their crimes.

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No. My argument would be that if America sent a force to Japan and ran into someone working for a modern day Jesse James (Fate), and decided to shoot up someone else's house (Nanoha), they don't have the legal standing to call Nanoha a criminal for not surrendering herself to them as they are there uninvited and have no legal standing to arrest her or use force in the first place. Complicated all the more by the fact that the group in question can trade shots with a Carrier Group and survive. With their upgraded devices, I'd even say "win" is a possibility. In the end, right or wrong, Nanoha's 'crime' is that she didn't let the TSAB push her around. Fate is a bit murkier, but arguments could certainly be made that she isn't a TSAB citizen. Precia is a straight up criminal, iirc, but I don't count her under the assumption that if she isn't dead yet, she almost certainly will be soon.

You're also overlooking that one of the big facts here is, the only thing Nanoha and Fate did to earn the ire of the TSAB is to reject their authority outside of TSAB space, and defend themselves when TSAB got violent. Alicia earned their ire by virtue of existing, because she has a Jewel Seed in her.

 

[Aleph]

You know, for all that people give Chrono shit about shooting up Nanoha's house, she did actually shoot him first. His first encounter with them in Chapter Four, he ordered them to halt, Fate ran for it, he tried to shoot-and-bind the mage running away with (as far as he knew) a Class 1 Lost Logia, and then Nanoha blocked him and shot back.

Like. He didn't exactly leap to the conclusion that she and Fate were working together without evidence, and she was the one who got herself involved in the shooting and escalated the fight.

Also, @Llamatrauma, we've had the "why not just go take over a primitive world somewhere outside the TSAB if you're a powerful mage" discussion before, and concluded that it's a really good way to get assassinated in your sleep. I can also assure you that even with her Jewel Seed, quantity is a quality all its own, and Nanoha is not powerful enough to beat an entire country of mages without killing herself from mana poisoning. Let alone multiple worlds. Shockingly, people do not appreciate overpowered children who don't even speak their language coming in, shooting up the centre of government, declaring themselves in charge and bringing the ire of the TSAB down on the place.

 

[EarthScorpion]

Also, @Llamatrauma, we've had the "why not just go take over a primitive world somewhere outside the TSAB if you're a powerful mage" discussion before, and concluded that it's a really good way to get assassinated in your sleep. I can also assure you that even with her Jewel Seed, quantity is a quality all its own, and Nanoha is not powerful enough to beat an entire country of mages without killing herself from mana poisoning. Let alone multiple worlds. Shockingly, people do not appreciate overpowered children who don't even speak their language coming in, shooting up the centre of government, declaring themselves in charge and bringing the ire of the TSAB down on the place.

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Not to mention that... uh, we have met multiple characters in-fic who could fight Nanoha or Fate to a standstill and several who could beat them reliably.

Remember what Fate's reaction was to going up against Zest in Game Theory? She had to run. If she went up against him again? The results of a rematch against Zest would be similar to what they were six months ago. Chrono is a reliable match up for Nanoha or Fate - and Chrono doesn't work alone if he thinks he'll be up against tough opposition. He brings a squad of A-rankers with him if he can get them.

Remember how things went towards the end of Game Theory? Nanoha and Fate lost every single Jewel Seed encounter against an understrength TSAB elite team (Megane was stuck in support because she was pregnant), Chrono and Tiida's training squad, and in the end had to be bailed out by Precia after they took the massively risky option of trying to awaken all the Jewel Seeds at once. Yes, six months mean Nanoha and Fate are better - but they're not that much better.

They're not 19-year old S-rankers. They're 9 year old AA-AAA-rankers. Canon StrikerS Nanoha would beat Gamesoha reliably.

And top of that, the Jewel Seeds in Nanoha and Fate's devices have a lower peak-power than a Cartridge. They're just power plants, not capacitors. In a short encounter, canon Bardiche and canon Raising Heart could out-power them, until Nanoha and Fate burned through their Cartridges. TSAB forces use Cartridges. Yes, the Jewel Seeds give Nanoha and Fate better stamina, but the advantage of being a military with supply lines and reinforcements and the like is that you can get reloads.

 

[Iron Roby]

That's a level of firepower she already has, assuming TSAB isn't ran by people with far too much ego and not enough brains. ESPECIALLY if the obvious thing doesn't happen and Jail doesn't run off with Alicia. Unlike Precia or Jail, she was never a part of TSAB. Hence, my entire point that TSAB has no legal standing to treat her as a criminal, and she's powerful enough that TSAB can't say 'screw the law' and treat her as one anyways without reprucussion. Their options, as I laid out, are escalate to war or move to diplomacy. And I wonder what most the constituent states are going to think about going to war with a pair of 9 year olds and a 6 year old for having the audacity to not surrender and let the TSAB potentially murder the 6 year old for the crime of existing, assuming Hayate doesn't join Team Nanoha Hugs and Homecooked Meals. Albeit, going to war with the current owner of the book of darkness would be a much easier sell.

Well, it's not like nations haven't ever done something incredibly stupid and shady before. It just has a nasty tendency to bite them in the ass. Consequences a thing, even if they aren't bad enough to topple a dimensional Superpower on their own.

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First, Nanoha quite insists on retaining Raising Heart, which was brought to her from TSAB space by a TSAB citizen and which TSAB could claim jurisdiction over, second, she has engaged in direct battle with TSAB forces. Yes, the start with Chrono could be argued as a defense of self, family and home, but then Nanoha left her homeworld to help a wanted criminal defend her secret base in battle with TSAB. If, disregarding extenuating circumstances for now, that still doesn't make her a criminal, legally speaking, then that means she is already at war with TSAB, as a third formerly neutral party who allied with TSAB's enemies.

And second, why and how are you trying to portray a half-dozen kids claiming sovereignty based on their personal magical power and weapons of mass destruction as something that would be 1) acceptable to any reasonable person in the Dimensional Sea and 2) unreasonable, stupid and shady to escalate against.

Nations are constructs for societies to interact with each other, they are not power trips for your random physically/magically strong individuals who found some ancient WMD to use as a vehicle to intimidate legitimate societies into recognizing them.

Because anyone would get that it would be a horrible precedent. You speak of the constituent nations vs TSAB, but where do you think TSAB's attitude comes from? It's those same nations who have scars about super mages running around blowing stuff up with WMDs. They don't want their higher rank mages getting stupid ideas next, they don't want people thinking, "hey, maybe I should use this Lost Logia to make myself the Emperor of Bumfuck", they want them safely contained. Because they have been there, they don't want those times back.

It would not be just some unreasonable bureaucrats against the protagonists, while every sympathetic shakes character their heads sadly about why don't they just leave those poor kids threatening them with WMDs alone, it would be basically everybody against the protagonists.

As for the idea of "acquiring" more population for legitimacy... yeah, because starting to actually conquer places is going to make TSAB and everybody see you as a less of a destabilizing threat needing to be contained, right.

 

[Shanejayell]

Considering the AUTHOR has come in and said it's a dumb idea... could we maybe drop it? :lol

 

[CV12Hornet]

Finally got around to reading this monster. Intense, very much liked it, especially Nanoha's speech in the dream world, which reminded me of a speech from another story. Someone has to try. Someone has to be the idiot who tries for that better outcome, and Nanoha will gladly be that idiot.

 

[Indivisible]

Thank you @Aleph . This chapter was a wonderful ride. Great character growth and fight sequences and funny lines. I've been trying to think of something to say since I read the chapter and the best thing I can think of is thank you for putting so much effort into making this.

 

[Dirtnap]

Well I thought you stopped writing this, Aleph. I'm so very very glad to see I was mistaken. Finally caught up...it'll be interesting to see the fallout from this.

 

[Madou Sutegobana]

Eh? Why is everyome talking as if founding a nation is an inherently evil act that involves forcing others into subjegation?

Magic exists, magical criminals exist, the only way to protect the populace is to counter them with magically inclined police, and the closest official government is universes away and not interested in patrolling this section of the universe.

Founding a magical government for earth and adjacent dimensions would be a beneficial act!

Hiring people wanted by the TSAB may be a necessary compromise to get officers with enough power and experience to actually protect the citizens, though you would still want to do screening so you don't hire a serial killer or someone just as bad.

 

[pressea]

Earth is a backwater. That includes criminal activity. The Jewel Seeds, Book of Darkness, and whatever incident Graham was involved in as a kid are FAR from normal, and Earth does not need a permanent magical peacekeeping force to protect people.

The only time criminals would head here is if they were hiding from the TSAB, and even then, there are better planets. Like the one Precia took Alicia to whose name I forgot.

 

[king208]

Eh? Why is everyome talking as if founding a nation is an inherently evil act that involves forcing others into subjegation?

Magic exists, magical criminals exist, the only way to protect the populace is to counter them with magically inclined police, and the closest official government is universes away and not interested in patrolling this section of the universe.

Founding a magical government for earth and adjacent dimensions would be a beneficial act!

Hiring people wanted by the TSAB may be a necessary compromise to get officers with enough power and experience to actually protect the citizens, though you would still want to do screening so you don't hire a serial killer or someone just as bad.

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Founding a worldwide nation is an act of subjugation because the people who are here already have their own countries and don't want magical nine year olds telling them what to do.

Honestly what are you even thinking about?

 

[Madou Sutegobana]

Founding a worldwide nation is an act of subjugation because the people who are here already have their own countries and don't want magical nine year olds telling them what to do.

Honestly what are you even thinking about?

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I said nothing about magical nine year olds telling existing nations what to do. You don't need to tear apart a nation in order to form one when you have plenty of room.

Founding a nation would be as simple as asking people if they would like to relocate to an off-world base or not. If they don't want to it wouldn't affect their life unless they learn magic and decide to terrorize one of the dimensions under protection.

For some people it would be an improvement over their current living conditions. And not every citizen would need to live or work offworld - there would be need for operatives to stay in contact with their home worlds as well.

 

[Kintty]

I said nothing about magical nine year olds telling existing nations what to do. You don't need to tear apart a nation in order to form one when you have plenty of room.

Founding a nation would be as simple as asking people if they would like to relocate to an off-world base or not. If they don't want to it wouldn't affect their life unless they learn magic and decide to terrorize one of the dimensions under protection.

For some people it would be an improvement over their current living conditions. And not every citizen would need to live or work offworld - there would be need for operatives to stay in contact with their home worlds as well.

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There's nothing simple or easy about founding a nation. But, if you're some sort of mega-corp with massive resources and perhaps experience then sure, you're welcome to try and maybe something good will come out of it. Such organizations, however, are not relevant to the story. Nanoha is, and the only way she can embark on such a task is by taking the resources from someone else (money, materials, people, etc) either through force or diplomacy. And the only effective diplomacy Nanoha has at her disposal is the friendship beam. I believe you can see the problem there.

 

[Smartphone]

So due to working full time and computer problem I only now just finished reading the chapter and the various posts that followed it, and I have to say that once again you nailed it Aleph.

The reasons why you have nailed it once again have pretty much already been covered previously by @spacemonkey37 who did an excellent job succinctly summing up the thematic and emotional core of this chapter and the ones immediately preceding it, and how Nanoha has been forced to recognize that hard work, determination, and (shockingly enough ) overwhelming firepower cannot solve all of life's problems. However despite recognizing the inherent difficulty of life she realizes that we must never give up hope and so she rejects the illusion goes forth to struggle with reality, which is more character development in that one scene than she got in the entire original series and it's spinoffs, so kudos to you Aleph.

Now for the only bits of original commentary I have to offer is some criticisms concerning the fight scenes here and throughout much of the gameverse in general. Namely that after reading this chapter and going back and reviewing previous chapters, I found that while they were not bad in and of themselves in my opinion they detract from the story as a whole. The reason I say that is that your real strength as a writer is connecting the emotional struggle the characters are going through to the underlying themes of the work as a whole in a fashion that creates significant feels in the reader. However the fight scenes due to their length, the way they are interspersed with the emotional aspects of the story, and your update schedule, the fights end up occasionally diluting the emotional impact of your writing as there is not enough time spent on going over what the characters are thinking and feeling and the timing and pacing of the fights can make it difficult for the reader to really contemplate what is going on as we are rushed off into another fight scene before either we or the characters have had a chance to absorb what has happened. I feel this is what happened in this chapter after Nanoha broke the Illusion as well as for Chrono after dealing with Graham, Yunno and Nanoha after they met again, and Fate after Alicia nearly got her jewel seed ripped out, because instead of going over the emotional implications of these events we just rush into another fight scene.

Now I have been thinking about various approaches to the problem but most of them have a problem, as having the emotional introspection occur during the fight scenes seems a little silly under most circumstances, while tacking the introspection on to the end of the chapter makes long chapters even longer (which you seem to be trying to avoid), while moving it off to a latter chapter causes it to lose some of the emotional impact for the reader as there has been a few month gap between the event being responded to and pathos generated by the event, which is how I felt with the end of the last chapter and the beginning of this one. As such I think shortening the fight scenes is probably the best way to maintain the emotional tempo of your work as I think it would avoid the potential problems outlined above as well as help with your stated goals of bringing chapter length into line with your other works.

Now shortening up the fight sequences would have some negative repercussions as the fight scenes as written do an exemplary job of wedding the feel of the original series with the grittier more grounded tone you have chosen to employ, which is in part owed to the similar length of the fight scenes in both this fic and the original series. However I do not think this will be as much of a problem going forward as it could have been as the relative length of a single fight relative to length of the show went down in the third season though the overall number of fights increased. This shift could be of use as more numerous but shorter fights allows you to have the fight and then immediately deal with the emotional fallout without delay or expanding the chapter size, while remaining similar to the structure of the fights in the third season and as an added benefit it also allows you to give side characters more time in the lime light if you wish. As such shortening the fight scenes allows you to retain your fidelity to the original series, shorten chapter length, and still play to your strengths as a writer.

This ended up a lot longer and more argumentative than anticipated, for which I sincerely apologize. I will respond to any counter arguments or general when I have a chance, though that may be a little while given my work schedule.

 

[Solacen]

Spoiler

I should add that there will also be a few short stories after Succession Games - Video Games, Children's Games and Bedroom Games. War Games is the only one I may not write.

Full list:

Game Theory
Power Games
Hide and Seek Games
Number Games
Succession Games
Bedroom Games
Video Games
Children's Games
(War Games?)

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* Hmm so im assuming Hide and Seek Games will revolve around NanoFate and Alicia in their attempts to elude the TSAB. Seeing as they are no longer believed to be dead and are known to be actively using Lost Logia in combat situations i doubt they will be left alone for too long. That said i cant imagine they would have anyone come after them straight away. The TSAB heavy hitters nearby are all to tired and injured to fight them right now. I think this one might also cover what Hayate is doing during the timeskip. Im pretty sure she will end up with the TSAB as a probationary member. I feel like this might be a far less flashy story then the previous 2. i think it will be more 'street level' so to speak. The Testarosa team will be focusing more on hiding and escaping then head on fights.

* Number games then i think is a side story running co-currently to that which features Jail and the numbers as the protagonists. Not sure what they are up to here. But seeing as Jail has already stolen the Saints Shroud that means his plans for the cradle have begun at least.

* Succession games then is harder to pin down. Obviously it is the Gameverse version of Strikers but butterflies make it difficult to figure out how exactly its going to work. I can see Riot Force 6 still being a thing with Hayate in charge still. No NanoFate though. So...Chikaze and Tiilda taking Nanoha and Fates positions as the captains? Where does Nano,fate and Alicia fit into this? Perhaps Are they secretly living In Mid by this point after the case against them has gone cold. I can see them being pulled into the whole drama by being the ones that find Vivio and then refusing to give her up.

* Bedroom Games? o0...ooooh mmyyy. Do i need an adult? No wait i am an adult.

* Childrens Games sound like it might be our Vivid equivalent.

 

[Shanejayell]

Thoughtful analysis. Tho Aleph may just be trolling us too...