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- He/Him
I'm not sure there is a Morale breakpoint for actual population growth, as opposed to expansion desire.
Pioneers: A Post Post Scarcity Civilization Civilization Civilization Quest
- Thread starter Texas Red
- Start date
- Original Mature Sci-Fi
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Population grows by 1 per turn if morale is over 3.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Okay, that is a rather Malthusian setup we got here.
Basically guarantees starvation if we ever let morale go above 3.
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- He/Him
So what happens above 7 morale, then? Because that tracker still says "above seven, no population growth, +1 Expansion Desire per turn".
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's exactly what it says. No population growth and +1 Erectile Dysfunction per turn.
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I may have made food production increase to steep as a time and resource investment, I think I'm gonna change it.
Edit: I have removed the multiple turn cost.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Anyway, because I like alternate societal set ups, here is a new, weird political set up.
[X] Plan: Asteroids & Politics
-Science:
--[X] Create Asteroid Capture and Mining System (3 CM over 3 turns, +1 CM Per Turn)
-Politics
--[X] Instill a different political system than planned or proposed (Write in and explain it)
----[X] Direct E-democracy with algorithmic deep state : In simple terms. Day to day affairs are managed by the bureaucratic, AI enhanced state. These include regulation, strategic resource management, and so on. High level priorities are set via e-democracy. Quite simply, the deep state proposes a few options, and the e-democracy can influence it's priorities. On the other hand, low level affairs are entirely handled via e-democracy of the relevant people. For example, if you want to organize a neighbourhood party, that would be handled by a neighbourhood vote, with higher level of government only interfering if the overarching management system notes it causes a problem.
Reasoning is pretty simple. Even with boosted food production, we literally can't expand food production faster than consumption without more minerals. That means expanding the mines, everything else is just postponing starvation.
[X] Plan: Asteroids & Politics
-Science:
--[X] Create Asteroid Capture and Mining System (3 CM over 3 turns, +1 CM Per Turn)
-Politics
--[X] Instill a different political system than planned or proposed (Write in and explain it)
----[X] Direct E-democracy with algorithmic deep state : In simple terms. Day to day affairs are managed by the bureaucratic, AI enhanced state. These include regulation, strategic resource management, and so on. High level priorities are set via e-democracy. Quite simply, the deep state proposes a few options, and the e-democracy can influence it's priorities. On the other hand, low level affairs are entirely handled via e-democracy of the relevant people. For example, if you want to organize a neighbourhood party, that would be handled by a neighbourhood vote, with higher level of government only interfering if the overarching management system notes it causes a problem.
Reasoning is pretty simple. Even with boosted food production, we literally can't expand food production faster than consumption without more minerals. That means expanding the mines, everything else is just postponing starvation.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] Plan: Asteroids & Politics
This sounds more fun than a parliamentary system.
This sounds more fun than a parliamentary system.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'll...vote for it, though I'm skeptical. I think there needs to be a democratic mechanism to introduce options independent of the deep state, and some very powerful oversight.
[X] Plan: Asteroids & Politics
[X]Plan Ah, Rocks
-[X] Create Asteroid Capture and Mining System (3 CM over 3 turns, +1 CM Per Turn)
-[X] Allow a parliamentary democratic system to take hold as planned
[X] Plan: Asteroids & Politics
[X]Plan Ah, Rocks
-[X] Create Asteroid Capture and Mining System (3 CM over 3 turns, +1 CM Per Turn)
-[X] Allow a parliamentary democratic system to take hold as planned
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm starting to realize why Civ quests are often hard to organize and maintain.
I can't figure out which votes I should actually be counting cause there's so many different systems people vote with while voting over similar but different things.
I can't figure out which votes I should actually be counting cause there's so many different systems people vote with while voting over similar but different things.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
I don't want to
but I don't really know what to do here and I'm wondering if I fucked this from the start with the resource and development system.
TBH, it all seems fine?
If the system annoys you, you could just remove part of it and go for a more narratively lighter one?
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
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- She/Her
Ok, so, the parliamentary democratic system has won, it seems. It was a separate vote than what you'd do with your resources. The collective decision of what to do with resources seems to be starting to create an asteroid mining system and that's it. Though their other part of the plan was instilling a different government. So I guess we're just mining asteroids today. Yeehaw.
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
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- She/Her
Ima keep it a buck with you Ebbor, my friend, I have absolutely no idea what you meant with the system of governing you proposed and I'm glad it did not succeed as I would have had no idea how to detail and structure it with this system.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
The idea was that the population would all vote for a set of goals, and the governement would then have to try and satisfy it.
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
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- She/Her
That-… that's like, a complete reverse of what a Civ quest is.
- Pronouns
- Reader
That's either a Republican quest or an attempting to complete the plan quest. I joined a mass effect one of the latter early on after discovering SV. It was more business oriented, but the premise of having goals to complete was the same, though this definitely feels more Republicanish based on the similarities in description to the Chinese Republican quest I participated in for a while. Either way, definitely not a civilization quest.
Edit: As for the actual winning vote, it's essentially authoritarianism at the higher levels of power with full community oversight of the government on the city block or rural county zone level. Just dock a portion of available resources and manpower for the local communities and do the bigger government choices however you feel.
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Turn 2: You Have Roids
New
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Create Asteroid Capture and Mining System (3 CM over 3 turns, +1 CM Per Turn)
[X] Allow a parliamentary democratic system to take hold as planned.
The Thoth arrived home safely, sparking planetwide celebration and reverence as national heroes. All minor issues on board the ship were thankfully taken care of before becoming catastrophic. It would take a few weeks of recovery and vitamin regiments in the upper spin levels of Sevastopol before they could return planetside, but they were home. After the return, once the dust had settled, it was time to structure out the government of Atlantis. In spite of T.A.V.I.'s recommendations, the Atlantean Parliament was established. Command was kept as the Executive and proposal branch of the government, as they had been the functional government of the colony since planetfall and had the most experience in organization. The final act of command before holding the parliament elections was to begin a project to capture Trojan asteroids into Enlil's orbit, use their resources to fund further resource gathering, and repeat the cycle endlessly, starting with Gilgamesh. Capture would take a while with conventional xenon-ion drives, but the payoff would be enormous.
Each district of fifty-thousand citizens of Atlantis, including Sevastopol station, elected a representative to parliament, six in total. Three Homocentrists, who's campaigns specifically focused on expansion and further industrialization, one Apexilist, who's intentions are to keep balance and comfort in our new home, and two Heliocentrists were elected, who's campaigns were to begin a long-game plan of creation another generation ship to go home.
Current Bills proposed:
[X] Spend remaining resources to increase food production (Apexist)
Vs.
[X] Spend remaining resources on creating a new construction swarm (Homocentrist and Heliocentrist)
[X] Send a moonfall team to Mušḫuššu to possibly have a second colony in the system. (Collective)
The Election Processing and Prediction Virtual Intellect, E.P.P.V.I., predicts plans two and three will pass without intervention. On a tie in parliament, Command, you, will be the tiebreakers collectively.
Lobbying works by writing side stories. If you write a side story of someone from command or under command's influence lobbying someone from another party in whatever way you want it to happen, you will alter their vote in the direction you want on a one-to-one basis. I may change that if parliament grows significantly. You can get creative with it, and you all seem like you'd keep it realistic, so I don't see much issue.
Food Production: 4 (If the population is above food production, you must resolve the difference in the next turn, or suffer -1 population and -1 morality per turn)
Population: 3 (Represents 100k people each)
Construction Materials: 1/10 +1 Per Turn
Morale: 5/10 (Below 4, no population growth, below 2, loss of population 1 per 2 Turns, above seven, +1 population per turn, +1 Expansion Desire per turn)
Expansion Desire: 2/10 (Resets when making a new colony)
Combat Spaceships: 0
Science Vessel: 1
Construction Swarms: 2
Waystation: Operational
Current Projects: Asteroid Capture System 1/3
Current Voyages:
Cities Under Control: Atlantis
Build a proposal to Parliament:
[ ] Build Science Vessel (2 CM, Ability to send more expeditions, +1 M)
[ ] Build Military Spaceship (2 CM, Ability to fight in space with one dice worth of might, +1 M)
[ ] Build Mass Driver (3 CM over 3 turns, permanent -1 CM Cost for orbital works, +1 ED, +2 M)
[ ] Send Expedition (Say which planet/moon, say the goal, costs the use of one science vessel for the duration of the expedition as determined by me, just ask +M)
[ ] Increase food production (1 CM)
[ ] Begin Space Elevator Construction 2 CM over 2 Turns to build the base)
[ ] Strip-Mine unsustainably (+3 CM now, no production from mine for 2 turns after)
[ ] Write-in (Get creative! I'll say the cost of any ideas as quickly as I can)
Once you create the plan, as quickly as I can I will tell you what the prediction of the vote is, and once the vote is concluded lobbying can begin.
[X] Allow a parliamentary democratic system to take hold as planned.
The Thoth arrived home safely, sparking planetwide celebration and reverence as national heroes. All minor issues on board the ship were thankfully taken care of before becoming catastrophic. It would take a few weeks of recovery and vitamin regiments in the upper spin levels of Sevastopol before they could return planetside, but they were home. After the return, once the dust had settled, it was time to structure out the government of Atlantis. In spite of T.A.V.I.'s recommendations, the Atlantean Parliament was established. Command was kept as the Executive and proposal branch of the government, as they had been the functional government of the colony since planetfall and had the most experience in organization. The final act of command before holding the parliament elections was to begin a project to capture Trojan asteroids into Enlil's orbit, use their resources to fund further resource gathering, and repeat the cycle endlessly, starting with Gilgamesh. Capture would take a while with conventional xenon-ion drives, but the payoff would be enormous.
Each district of fifty-thousand citizens of Atlantis, including Sevastopol station, elected a representative to parliament, six in total. Three Homocentrists, who's campaigns specifically focused on expansion and further industrialization, one Apexilist, who's intentions are to keep balance and comfort in our new home, and two Heliocentrists were elected, who's campaigns were to begin a long-game plan of creation another generation ship to go home.
Current Bills proposed:
[X] Spend remaining resources to increase food production (Apexist)
Vs.
[X] Spend remaining resources on creating a new construction swarm (Homocentrist and Heliocentrist)
[X] Send a moonfall team to Mušḫuššu to possibly have a second colony in the system. (Collective)
The Election Processing and Prediction Virtual Intellect, E.P.P.V.I., predicts plans two and three will pass without intervention. On a tie in parliament, Command, you, will be the tiebreakers collectively.
Lobbying works by writing side stories. If you write a side story of someone from command or under command's influence lobbying someone from another party in whatever way you want it to happen, you will alter their vote in the direction you want on a one-to-one basis. I may change that if parliament grows significantly. You can get creative with it, and you all seem like you'd keep it realistic, so I don't see much issue.
Food Production: 4 (If the population is above food production, you must resolve the difference in the next turn, or suffer -1 population and -1 morality per turn)
Population: 3 (Represents 100k people each)
Construction Materials: 1/10 +1 Per Turn
Morale: 5/10 (Below 4, no population growth, below 2, loss of population 1 per 2 Turns, above seven, +1 population per turn, +1 Expansion Desire per turn)
Expansion Desire: 2/10 (Resets when making a new colony)
Combat Spaceships: 0
Science Vessel: 1
Construction Swarms: 2
Waystation: Operational
Current Projects: Asteroid Capture System 1/3
Current Voyages:
Cities Under Control: Atlantis
Build a proposal to Parliament:
[ ] Build Science Vessel (2 CM, Ability to send more expeditions, +1 M)
[ ] Build Military Spaceship (2 CM, Ability to fight in space with one dice worth of might, +1 M)
[ ] Build Mass Driver (3 CM over 3 turns, permanent -1 CM Cost for orbital works, +1 ED, +2 M)
[ ] Send Expedition (Say which planet/moon, say the goal, costs the use of one science vessel for the duration of the expedition as determined by me, just ask +M)
[ ] Increase food production (1 CM)
[ ] Begin Space Elevator Construction 2 CM over 2 Turns to build the base)
[ ] Strip-Mine unsustainably (+3 CM now, no production from mine for 2 turns after)
[ ] Write-in (Get creative! I'll say the cost of any ideas as quickly as I can)
Once you create the plan, as quickly as I can I will tell you what the prediction of the vote is, and once the vote is concluded lobbying can begin.
Playing The Game
New
Ok. Omake time
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Jacob watched his colleague. Bill Morre was a Homocentrist, and a competent one, knew what he was doing. He'd gotten his start on Sevastopol working maintenance and he'd retained the desire for redundancy you get in that sort of environment. He knew all of this because he'd done his research, unlike some of Command. He'd supported the transition to a democracy, because he genuinely believed in those ideals. And because he thought he could work the system. That too.
He was trying to work that system now.
"Hey." Simple introduction "mind if I sit here?" Polite request.
"Oh," he replied "of course" a debate is on, there's a way in.
"Damm that's gotten fiery" Jacob commented
"Heh. Yeah. People are passionate about this. They want their voices heard." Bill replied idly.
"I suppose. Which side are you on?" As though he didn't know.
"I have to admit I'd like that new construction swarm. It'd be useful, especially up on Sevastopol." Bill said, more engaged now.
"Really? From what I hear the ones we've got are going to be idle next year. We don't have enough materials to justify it. Better to get a buffer for food, especially now that the population is growing again." Jacob said.
"Huh. I mean, that's a point but we've got surplus now, don't we?"
"Well yeah but it's not much surplus. End of decade and we're liable to be straining the infrastructure. Might as well future proof." Hook Jacob thought.
"… That argument could be applied to construction swarms too you know" Bill said thoughtfully
"It could" Jacob agreed "but we can stockpile construction materials easily enough. Can't stockpile food. or not as well at least." Line
"you may have a point" Bill concluded "you've got evidence?" Sinker!
"Yeah, I'll shoot it over the 'net. What's you name?"
"Oh damm, I didn't tell you? Bill Morre" he said as he reached a hand over.
"Jacob Thorpe" he replied grasping, Bill's hand "I'll send it tonight. Thanks for listening"
"No problem. Always willing to hear new ideas"
Both men smiled, though for different reasons. This, thought Jacob is how you play the game.
——————————————————————
What do you think?
—————————————————————-
Jacob watched his colleague. Bill Morre was a Homocentrist, and a competent one, knew what he was doing. He'd gotten his start on Sevastopol working maintenance and he'd retained the desire for redundancy you get in that sort of environment. He knew all of this because he'd done his research, unlike some of Command. He'd supported the transition to a democracy, because he genuinely believed in those ideals. And because he thought he could work the system. That too.
He was trying to work that system now.
"Hey." Simple introduction "mind if I sit here?" Polite request.
"Oh," he replied "of course" a debate is on, there's a way in.
"Damm that's gotten fiery" Jacob commented
"Heh. Yeah. People are passionate about this. They want their voices heard." Bill replied idly.
"I suppose. Which side are you on?" As though he didn't know.
"I have to admit I'd like that new construction swarm. It'd be useful, especially up on Sevastopol." Bill said, more engaged now.
"Really? From what I hear the ones we've got are going to be idle next year. We don't have enough materials to justify it. Better to get a buffer for food, especially now that the population is growing again." Jacob said.
"Huh. I mean, that's a point but we've got surplus now, don't we?"
"Well yeah but it's not much surplus. End of decade and we're liable to be straining the infrastructure. Might as well future proof." Hook Jacob thought.
"… That argument could be applied to construction swarms too you know" Bill said thoughtfully
"It could" Jacob agreed "but we can stockpile construction materials easily enough. Can't stockpile food. or not as well at least." Line
"you may have a point" Bill concluded "you've got evidence?" Sinker!
"Yeah, I'll shoot it over the 'net. What's you name?"
"Oh damm, I didn't tell you? Bill Morre" he said as he reached a hand over.
"Jacob Thorpe" he replied grasping, Bill's hand "I'll send it tonight. Thanks for listening"
"No problem. Always willing to hear new ideas"
Both men smiled, though for different reasons. This, thought Jacob is how you play the game.
——————————————————————
What do you think?
- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Exactly what I was looking for. Good job! However! I would prefer the sidestories to wait until after the vote has concluded so everyone can contribute towards the same goal.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, three options here.
Plan Alpha: We stay the course plinking away at the Asteroid Capture System. This means we have a food crunch on Turn 4 as Asteroid Capture completes online, leaving us stable at 4 Morale and 4/4 Pops. At the end of that, on Turn 5, we have 2 Mats/Turn and 2 swarms, enough to work on projects and grow food production.
Plan Bravo: We pull the strip-mine ripcord, giving us 3 Mats now. That gives us the breathing room to work on both Asteroid Capture and 2x Food Production over this turn and Turn 3, letting us dodge the food crunch on Turn 4. We get no Mats Turns 3 and 4, +1 Mats/Turn from Asteroid Capture on Turn 5, and another +1 Mats/Turn from the Planetary Mine coming back on Turn 5, leaving us with 5 Morale, 5/6 Pops, 2 Mats/Turn and 2 Swarms.
Plan Charlie: We pull the strip-mine ripcord, but put the 2 Mats into starting the Mass Driver instead, accepting the Turn 4 food crunch. The Mass Driver would pause construction on Turn 4, then finish on Turn 5 as Mats from Asteroid Capture and Planetary Mine come in. 6 Morale, 4/4 Pops, 2 Mats/Turn, 2 Swarms, and the Mass Driver.
Of the three, I view Bravo & Charlie as being strictly better. Either we have more Pops and retain Morale (which presumably we can do something with in the future), or we have an early Mass Driver to support an expansion on Mušḫuššu.
Bravo would be easier to get through Parliament--we can rope the Homocentrists and the Apexist into supporting more Pops and food security, respectively. Charlie would be trickier: the two Heliocentrists would support expansions in space capability, and maybe we can sell it to the Homocentrists on the creation of a space industrial sector, but food security would be a pressing issue.
Plan Alpha: We stay the course plinking away at the Asteroid Capture System. This means we have a food crunch on Turn 4 as Asteroid Capture completes online, leaving us stable at 4 Morale and 4/4 Pops. At the end of that, on Turn 5, we have 2 Mats/Turn and 2 swarms, enough to work on projects and grow food production.
Plan Bravo: We pull the strip-mine ripcord, giving us 3 Mats now. That gives us the breathing room to work on both Asteroid Capture and 2x Food Production over this turn and Turn 3, letting us dodge the food crunch on Turn 4. We get no Mats Turns 3 and 4, +1 Mats/Turn from Asteroid Capture on Turn 5, and another +1 Mats/Turn from the Planetary Mine coming back on Turn 5, leaving us with 5 Morale, 5/6 Pops, 2 Mats/Turn and 2 Swarms.
Plan Charlie: We pull the strip-mine ripcord, but put the 2 Mats into starting the Mass Driver instead, accepting the Turn 4 food crunch. The Mass Driver would pause construction on Turn 4, then finish on Turn 5 as Mats from Asteroid Capture and Planetary Mine come in. 6 Morale, 4/4 Pops, 2 Mats/Turn, 2 Swarms, and the Mass Driver.
Of the three, I view Bravo & Charlie as being strictly better. Either we have more Pops and retain Morale (which presumably we can do something with in the future), or we have an early Mass Driver to support an expansion on Mušḫuššu.
Bravo would be easier to get through Parliament--we can rope the Homocentrists and the Apexist into supporting more Pops and food security, respectively. Charlie would be trickier: the two Heliocentrists would support expansions in space capability, and maybe we can sell it to the Homocentrists on the creation of a space industrial sector, but food security would be a pressing issue.
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- Location
- 100 Meters From Your Location
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@DecaffeinatedOwl you are mostly correct about that. It would be pretty easy to get the Homocentrists on board with plan Bravo, but they would require convincing as they're focused on industrialization now. The Apexist is all for stability and sustainability though, so they'd definitely vote against the strip mining. Everyone else would outvote them anyway though.
I think it would be easier to sell the Homocentrists on an orbital industrial sector as that's their goal. They'd vote for it without lobbying. Heliocentrist ideas align mostly with the Homocentrists currently, as further industrialization furthers both their goals.
I think it would be easier to sell the Homocentrists on an orbital industrial sector as that's their goal. They'd vote for it without lobbying. Heliocentrist ideas align mostly with the Homocentrists currently, as further industrialization furthers both their goals.