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Penn Annûn: A Dúnedain Quest

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Nervos Belli said:
Union locks us out of any future political marriage though, and there are bigger fish out there than Agraven, who is only a vassal. I think cooperate is best. We need competent subordinates, and it gives him a chance to earn plenty of glory while also benefitting us.
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Bigger fish yes, but this gives us a foundation that cannot be matched. This is a clan-feudal system, having iron-clad foundations are more important than future possible spouses.
 
Real cold on a marriage preceded by an update which features our prospective match not at all. For all the focus he got, one would think we had Agraven in mind for a husband.
 
I do love a good political marriage. It's powerful for sure. It's just that we can only do it once.

I remember in a quest by ScottishMongol players kept turning down marriages for a young emperor, until enough time had passed that he spent much of his life as a bachelor with a string of mistresses and bastard children. There was no "this is your final chance to marry someone, here's a list of all options" screen. We just kept saying no until life moved on. All those previous candidates had gotten married off screen in the time skip between votes. The question is who are the better candidates? Probably other clans or noble families, maybe even someone with Numenor ancestry.

It might be possible to marry Agraven's daughter in the future, but she might also be married off to someone else to secure an alliance for Agraven. I think union or marriage might be the go to. Securing the loyalty of the entire clan would be a pretty huge boon. That said, he did still swear allegiance to us. He may plot and scheme, but if we come through as leader he can't make a move for power. He's part of our clan, he bowed, so for the time being he's publicly loyal. We don't need to panic.

There's always taking hostages. It's a classic for a reason. It's not great PR and feels wise, but it's not out of the ordinary for their society.

Just offering war conquest is also fine. We get everyone hyped, steal some cattle, steal some treasure, fuck around and feel good. It's another classic for a reason.
 
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Fission Battery said:
The question is who are the better candidates? Probably other clans or noble families, maybe even someone with Numenor ancestry.
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I mean, the prize of all prizes (if it's possible) would be to marry a woman from Isildur's bloodline, whether it be from Cardolan, Arthedain, or Rhudaur. The line of kings in Rhudaur died out by at least 1349 TA, so having married into the House of Isildur would make it a lot easier to claim rulership of Rhudaur (or what's left of it once the Witch King arrives). Maybe it wouldn't be high enough to become an actual king, but we might be able to take the title of prince, like the princes of Cardolan did.
 
Hm we would have to basically pre empt the witchking and be the Shield for the other kingdoms so unify Rhudaur and for this we need alliances do we know if our "king" has a daughter is better for legitmizie if we do it like that.
 
ThunderOwl said:
Look, that´s problematic for us getting a successor. The best alternative is this.

[X] Marry Agraven´s Daughter, seduce Agraven as a lover.
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Real CKIII hours.


I lean toward cooperate, but that also lets him control our troops which might be problematic in the future. Taking hostages is a sign of weakness and will start with resentment. Promising riches we may never obtain is easiest, but also means they will want those rewards eventually.

Divide appeals to me. We can bribe some people and ensure that the backstabbing is aimed at others, not us. But that too could have its own risks...
 
[X] Cooperate: It was often the principle of old Arnor that a man should keep his enemies closer than his friends. Before the assembled clan elders, you proclaim Agraven your new war-master, chief captain of your armies: an honor he cannot refuse. This honor on their favored candidate will woo the elders who back him, while the man himself, now leading your raids and fighting your wars, will find himself hard pressed to scheme behind your back.
 
[X] Cooperate: It was often the principle of old Arnor that a man should keep his enemies closer than his friends. Before the assembled clan elders, you proclaim Agraven your new war-master, chief captain of your armies: an honor he cannot refuse. This honor on their favored candidate will woo the elders who back him, while the man himself, now leading your raids and fighting your wars, will find himself hard pressed to scheme behind your back.
 
[X] Cooperate: It was often the principle of old Arnor that a man should keep his enemies closer than his friends. Before the assembled clan elders, you proclaim Agraven your new war-master, chief captain of your armies: an honor he cannot refuse. This honor on their favored candidate will woo the elders who back him, while the man himself, now leading your raids and fighting your wars, will find himself hard pressed to scheme behind your back.
 
I pushed to attend the clanmoot not least to help build up our household, and regardless of how I feel about it will commit towards that end.

[x] Union: You call up Agraven and bow before him, humbly requesting his daughter's hand in marriage. In one blow, you make an offer publicly which he cannot refuse, honor him beyond all words, and bind him to you as the sword to the hilt. The kin-bonds are iron, even in these days of strife and sorrow. Agraven would not dare challenge his own son-in-law while his daughter still lived…but you may only have one wife, and should so strong an alliance truly be spent upon one who is not even your equal?
[x] Take Hostages: You will take a measured and decisive tone, demanding that the elders give proofs of the loyalty they have just sworn — a son, from every great man atop the hill, who will remain at Dol Sîriath until they are full-grown. The greatest of these hostages will certainly be Agraven's son, Dorhael.
[x] Write-In: You respectfully offer Agraven betrothal of his son Dorhael to your sister anticipating a wedding when they are both of age, residence for Agraven's household in Dol Sîriath from now and at least until the marriage, and as handsome a dowry as the spoils of war between now and then between may bring.
 
[X] Cooperate: It was often the principle of old Arnor that a man should keep his enemies closer than his friends. Before the assembled clan elders, you proclaim Agraven your new war-master, chief captain of your armies: an honor he cannot refuse. This honor on their favored candidate will woo the elders who back him, while the man himself, now leading your raids and fighting your wars, will find himself hard pressed to scheme behind your back.
 
[X] Cooperate: It was often the principle of old Arnor that a man should keep his enemies closer than his friends. Before the assembled clan elders, you proclaim Agraven your new war-master, chief captain of your armies: an honor he cannot refuse. This honor on their favored candidate will woo the elders who back him, while the man himself, now leading your raids and fighting your wars, will find himself hard pressed to scheme behind your back.
 
[x] Write-In: You respectfully offer Agraven betrothal of his son Dorhael to your sister anticipating a wedding when they are both of age, residence for Agraven's household in Dol Sîriath from now and at least until the marriage, and as handsome a dowry as the spoils of war between now and then between may bring.
[X] Cooperate: It was often the principle of old Arnor that a man should keep his enemies closer than his friends. Before the assembled clan elders, you proclaim Agraven your new war-master, chief captain of your armies: an honor he cannot refuse. This honor on their favored candidate will woo the elders who back him, while the man himself, now leading your raids and fighting your wars, will find himself hard pressed to scheme behind your back.
 
[X] Write-In: You respectfully offer Agraven betrothal of his son Dorhael to your sister anticipating a wedding when they are both of age, residence for Agraven's household in Dol Sîriath from now and at least until the marriage, and as handsome a dowry as the spoils of war between now and then between may bring.

[X] Divide: More than a few of the clansmen who rode to Weathertop with your father left no heirs for their lands and wealth. You distribute these spoils among the great families of the clan just so — a hill claimed by one family is inherited now by their rivals, one brother is given gold while his brother is given nothing, Agraven is awarded prime riverland while his neighbors must content themselves with rocks. Hopefully, these giftings will sow internal divisions among the clan, driving the elders against one another.
 
[X] Cooperate: It was often the principle of old Arnor that a man should keep his enemies closer than his friends. Before the assembled clan elders, you proclaim Agraven your new war-master, chief captain of your armies: an honor he cannot refuse. This honor on their favored candidate will woo the elders who back him, while the man himself, now leading your raids and fighting your wars, will find himself hard pressed to scheme behind your back.
 
[X] Union: You call up Agraven and bow before him, humbly requesting his daughter's hand in marriage. In one blow, you make an offer publicly which he cannot refuse, honor him beyond all words, and bind him to you as the sword to the hilt. The kin-bonds are iron, even in these days of strife and sorrow. Agraven would not dare challenge his own son-in-law while his daughter still lived…but you may only have one wife, and should so strong an alliance truly be spent upon one who is not even your equal?
[X] Take Hostages: You will take a measured and decisive tone, demanding that the elders give proofs of the loyalty they have just sworn — a son, from every great man atop the hill, who will remain at Dol Sîriath until they are full-grown. The greatest of these hostages will certainly be Agraven's son, Dorhael.
 
[X] Cooperate:
We have much room to rise yet. A rising tide shall lift all boats, and a sinking tide shall founder ours as easily as his.
 
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