- Location
- California
[X] Refuse.
Now You Feel Like Number None [Bleach Arrancar Quest]
- Thread starter Omicron
- Start date
- Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
somnolentSlumber
(Verified Proofreader)
- Location
- hell
Unnecessary capitalization there.
Missing letter.
ChildishChimera
A umbran summon
- Location
- New York
[X] Refuse.
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a better position to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a better position to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
- Location
- Texas
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
- Location
- Texas
I think this whole line of reasoning is very, very weird.
If you don't like the idea that Nemo will cooperate with a sadistic torturer, if you think that working with him is agreeing with him that it's OK or necessary...why is it OK to do that as long as Nemo doesn't get anything out of the deal?
The morally objectionable part of working with Szayel is the part where he's a monster who is going to turn every piece of knowledge and every technique or tool he can acquire into an instrument of torment and degradation. Not the part where Nemo can take a deep breath again without pain. Getting healed up doesn't make helping Szayel torture what's left of Yammy more evil than doing it for free.
Or, as some people have suggested, helping torture Yammy so that you can get a helping of those sweet evil science notes. If we're talking mercenary, cold, and calculating, pretending to be enthusiastic about Szayel's work so that Nemo can apply his insights and techniques to her own Marana is pretty mercenary and calculating.
If you're going for the "be a good person" moral argument, that's strongly weighted towards not cooperating with Szayel at all. Helping him with his work is already taking the morally dubious path, where Nemo is applying her art and expertise to an end she finds repugnant in exchange for some consideration.
Anyhow, after writing this, I think I'm switching votes. Marana is Nemo's prized art. It means a lots to her. It's the lens through which she views the world, even; when she delved into her soul and declared herself the Queen of Shadows, she wove a tapestry of herself with Marana. And in the update, she found Szayel's work and goals to be sickening and perverse. I want Marana to stay something good for Nemo, something beautiful which brings her joy, not something tainted by sadism and malice. Helping Szayel would be a mistake, and learning anything from Szayel's twisted, evil methodology would be a mistake. Poison fruit.
[X] Refuse.
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
- Pronouns
- He/Him
>help torture yammy
>option is explicitly couched around trying to un-torture yammy
/me tiiiiiiilts his head a bit?
I mean unless your argument is that the option is a naked trap and Szayel is going to immediately undo it in a "lol gotcha" moment and punish Nemo for her insolence (but then why make it an option at all?) I don't really get where you're coming from? I mean if we're just supposing completely off the wall shit about any of the options then I can just say that the "Refuse' option is going to make Szayel so ridiculously buttmad he vores Nemo? And besides that I can't help but feel like you're ccccooonsciously misreading/omitting the shit I'm saying about the options Szayel offers Nemo in the forms of grafts likely being toxic in their own right. And her using her art to try to fix something she finds repugnant?
Like that's right there in the option dude. Fair cop to it being kinda calculating in its own right but overall it really comes across like you're working off a radically different reading of the update and the spread that's presented. I don't...really know how to engage you on that when you're working from the given that "all the options involve torturing Yammy, yes even the option that's specifically about sabotaging the attempts to torture Yammy, therefore the ethical thing is to maximize the benefits out of torturing Yammy".
Or sabotage our boss's relationship with her colleagues I guess now?
The path of the righteous is neverending, and treacherous, and oh so easy to stray from. And while Nemo may do her best to be a good person, she can fail.
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
You know this is a poor decision. You've made your share of poor decisions, and this one is worse. Helping the human girl was foolish, but at least it was kind. Leaving the mask on the salt sea was wasteful, but it was the righteous choice, the choice to be better. Saving Jackleton was reckless, but it was a choice born of responsibility, and honest friendship. Making worse choices to become better than any of those who hold power over you.
Here, though, to accept Szayel's healing would be not only foolish, but selfish - if you must trade favors with this monster, why not forsake yourself to aid your mistress in the name of love and duty? Or perhaps aid poor damned Yammy out of pity and regret - did Cirucci not say that she loved your kindness, your mercy? You could even refuse to help entirely. Alphonse would be disgusted to know you were even considering this, that you might willingly pervert the art he taught you in service of this madness. At most, he might grudgingly understand, but you know in your heart that to use Marana for this torture device is fundamentally a betrayal of his trust. So why do it?
Because you're in pain.
It's not like you have been so many times before - when you fought the Butcher King, when Findorr ambushed you, in that desperate running battle against that strange child. Those times, pain was a signal, a siren, something to warn you of your limits and injuries and then fade to nothing when you healed. Perhaps your wounds from breathing Yammy's fire were similar, but at that point you were too battered and exhausted to truly think about them.
This time, though... The pain is just there. Whenever you move too fast, when you bend too far, when you breathe too deeply, it surges, sharp and crippling. But when you're careful not to jar yourself, when you move with precision, when you're calm and still, it's still there, a red-black bone-deep ache. It never leaves.
So you've distracted yourself. You lead the Numeros in song, and focused on their development. You visited a terrible monster in the depths, and focused on your duty. You've kept busy aiding and serving your love, and focused on her. And with each of these things you push the pain to the edge of your mind, something present but unimportant, something not to be considered. But now that an healing stands before you with a poisoned smile, you are aware of your injury, you can no longer tell yourself you don't notice it, that you're not denying a bone-deep hurt.
You're just tired of hurting.
And perhaps in this way your Regeneration is a weakness, perhaps other Numeros know to simply bear pain. But you've never learned to, and it's just... It's not fair for you to suffer like this, and even as you think this part of you wants to burst out laughing at the absurdity of the thought, that you would ever consider petty unfairness a justification for anything at all. But the urge to just let the pain go, to actually be able to relax, to no longer need some little part of you always asking "how do I do this without more pain?" is just so, so strong.
So, yes, you know this is a poor decision. But it is not as foolish as it might be, you tell yourself. In your surgery with Esmerelda, you remained conscious, observing her - surely you can do the same here, and he could not alter you without your knowledge. You know how your flesh is woven, and perhaps you can steer him away from monstrosity, collaborate to create cures that you find acceptable. And surely he does not wish to anger the thunderstorm you love, and might be talked away from anything that might disappoint or anger her - might you not be able to tell him Cirucci needs you intact, in a form indistinguishable from your natural body to even an... exceedingly close inspection?
You know it's a poor decision. But you've been good, and been righteous, and you hurt for it. So you avert your eyes from the barbarism that Yammy will be forced into, deny it to yourself, and inform Szayel that you'll accept his bargain, healing for your knowledge.
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
You know this is a poor decision. You've made your share of poor decisions, and this one is worse. Helping the human girl was foolish, but at least it was kind. Leaving the mask on the salt sea was wasteful, but it was the righteous choice, the choice to be better. Saving Jackleton was reckless, but it was a choice born of responsibility, and honest friendship. Making worse choices to become better than any of those who hold power over you.
Here, though, to accept Szayel's healing would be not only foolish, but selfish - if you must trade favors with this monster, why not forsake yourself to aid your mistress in the name of love and duty? Or perhaps aid poor damned Yammy out of pity and regret - did Cirucci not say that she loved your kindness, your mercy? You could even refuse to help entirely. Alphonse would be disgusted to know you were even considering this, that you might willingly pervert the art he taught you in service of this madness. At most, he might grudgingly understand, but you know in your heart that to use Marana for this torture device is fundamentally a betrayal of his trust. So why do it?
Because you're in pain.
It's not like you have been so many times before - when you fought the Butcher King, when Findorr ambushed you, in that desperate running battle against that strange child. Those times, pain was a signal, a siren, something to warn you of your limits and injuries and then fade to nothing when you healed. Perhaps your wounds from breathing Yammy's fire were similar, but at that point you were too battered and exhausted to truly think about them.
This time, though... The pain is just there. Whenever you move too fast, when you bend too far, when you breathe too deeply, it surges, sharp and crippling. But when you're careful not to jar yourself, when you move with precision, when you're calm and still, it's still there, a red-black bone-deep ache. It never leaves.
So you've distracted yourself. You lead the Numeros in song, and focused on their development. You visited a terrible monster in the depths, and focused on your duty. You've kept busy aiding and serving your love, and focused on her. And with each of these things you push the pain to the edge of your mind, something present but unimportant, something not to be considered. But now that an healing stands before you with a poisoned smile, you are aware of your injury, you can no longer tell yourself you don't notice it, that you're not denying a bone-deep hurt.
You're just tired of hurting.
And perhaps in this way your Regeneration is a weakness, perhaps other Numeros know to simply bear pain. But you've never learned to, and it's just... It's not fair for you to suffer like this, and even as you think this part of you wants to burst out laughing at the absurdity of the thought, that you would ever consider petty unfairness a justification for anything at all. But the urge to just let the pain go, to actually be able to relax, to no longer need some little part of you always asking "how do I do this without more pain?" is just so, so strong.
So, yes, you know this is a poor decision. But it is not as foolish as it might be, you tell yourself. In your surgery with Esmerelda, you remained conscious, observing her - surely you can do the same here, and he could not alter you without your knowledge. You know how your flesh is woven, and perhaps you can steer him away from monstrosity, collaborate to create cures that you find acceptable. And surely he does not wish to anger the thunderstorm you love, and might be talked away from anything that might disappoint or anger her - might you not be able to tell him Cirucci needs you intact, in a form indistinguishable from your natural body to even an... exceedingly close inspection?
You know it's a poor decision. But you've been good, and been righteous, and you hurt for it. So you avert your eyes from the barbarism that Yammy will be forced into, deny it to yourself, and inform Szayel that you'll accept his bargain, healing for your knowledge.
- Location
- Australia
This is the exact thing that Nemo decided against in the Salar de Luna, where taking the mask would've doomed the Dancers even if she didn't kill them by her own hand. She is not the type to avert her eyes from suffering. You are voting with the intent of reversing Nemo's growth as a character.
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Barnes
Laughing on the outside, laughing on the inside
- Location
- Definetly not my parent's basement
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a better position to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a better position to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
[\spoiler]
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
Lexica
Persevere
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hrmm. This one's tough for me. I'm all for making moral stands, but I don't think either refusing or accepting are necessarily moral absolute in and of themselves.
Like if we refuse on the principle that Nemo doesn't want to be party to this and doesn't want to potentially allow her insights to torture more people, that's definitely a moral choice.
But it's also a moral choice for Nemo to try to reduce Yammy's suffering as much as possible.
I don't think there's really a clear cut right and wrong here. Unless @Omicron wants to give us some more insight into how Nemo herself feels about the various options?
Like if we refuse on the principle that Nemo doesn't want to be party to this and doesn't want to potentially allow her insights to torture more people, that's definitely a moral choice.
But it's also a moral choice for Nemo to try to reduce Yammy's suffering as much as possible.
I don't think there's really a clear cut right and wrong here. Unless @Omicron wants to give us some more insight into how Nemo herself feels about the various options?
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a betterposition to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a betterposition to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilfer Szayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
For myself, it's more that "maybe torture Yammy a bit less" still involves us torturing Yammy. And makes us directly complicit in his future torture by having our work involved in his monstrous carapace, regardless of whether our version is slightly less painful than Szayelaporro's version.
If we wanted to try quixotic methods of making up for our past sins, we might as well just try having Yammy reinstated as the Tenth Espada. Position's open now, after all.
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will ask for…
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a betterposition to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilferSzayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
I think that refusing is nothing more than moral cowardice. Let's maximise utility.
-[X] Nothing. By feigning pure scientific interest in his work and an eagerness to help him, you will please him greatly and make him less likely to scrutinize your work, putting you in a betterposition to make the Sacrophagus less inhumane, and perhaps giving you the opportunity to pilferSzayel's notes on other subjects for your own use.
I think that refusing is nothing more than moral cowardice. Let's maximise utility.
Ah yes. 'Maximizing utility'. What we so often tell ourselves as we take those first steps on the road to hell. No, I'd rather not.
- Location
- Australia
Doing an immoral thing for personal advantage is something that Nemo is very much against. It's why she bandaged Ururu after their fight rather than just leave her and make a clean getaway.
- Location
- Brittany, France
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nemo is not callous; if she helps Szayel, she will try to alleviate Yammy's pain regardless of the option, the "Nothing" vote just gives her the greatest opportunity to do so by making Szayel more likely to overlook or be swayed by her recommendations because he thinks he's found a skilled coworker helping him out of shared scientific interest.
She will still feel pretty bad about it, because she would be taking part in something corrupt to try and alleviate its evil from the inside instead of making a principled stand, and Nemo doesn't like these kinds of compromise. Still, it's not a 180 on her character development. None of these options, to her, are about sacrificing someone for her personal gain. One of them is about trying to help Yammy the most and stealing the mad scientist's data, one is about trying to help Cirucci, one is about saying "no, I will have no part of this," and one is about trying to balance helping out with alleviating her personal pain.
If Szayel's offer had been some kind of material gain or cool superscience device she would have dismissed that out of hand, but her wounds are a shadow looming over her.
She will still feel pretty bad about it, because she would be taking part in something corrupt to try and alleviate its evil from the inside instead of making a principled stand, and Nemo doesn't like these kinds of compromise. Still, it's not a 180 on her character development. None of these options, to her, are about sacrificing someone for her personal gain. One of them is about trying to help Yammy the most and stealing the mad scientist's data, one is about trying to help Cirucci, one is about saying "no, I will have no part of this," and one is about trying to balance helping out with alleviating her personal pain.
If Szayel's offer had been some kind of material gain or cool superscience device she would have dismissed that out of hand, but her wounds are a shadow looming over her.
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Amphidsf
The Quipster
- Location
- Golden
Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
Again, the fact that some people fuck up doesn't mean we shouldn't do the right thing. Slippery slope is a fallacy for a reason.
[X] Work with Szayel. In exchange you will askfor…
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
I kinda want Nemo to care a bit more about herself.
-[X] Healing your crippling injuries. With the Quinta as your mistress, there is no risk of him offending her by turning you into a freaky mutant, but letting Szayel play around with your insides might still have consequences, even - especially - if he believes he's helping you doing so. Then again, these consequences could be positive…
I kinda want Nemo to care a bit more about herself.
- Location
- madison
I'm sure the person your letting suffer for your principles would appreciate your nobility.