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Not Quite Lovecraft

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We need to hm, re-frame things. Something like:

[X] "So if you know the power is real, Why did you assume your new boss was any better?"

Could use a little more elaboration, but the point would be to take their existing biases and apply them to the current situation. They aren't taking this power for themselves. They are pawns of something terrible which will exploit them far worse then their mortal bosses ever could.
It has the bonus of being true.
 
JayTar said:
We need to hm, re-frame things. Something like:

[X] "So if you know the power is real, Why did you assume your new boss was any better?"

Could use a little more elaboration, but the point would be to take their existing biases and apply them to the current situation. They aren't taking this power for themselves. They are pawns of something terrible which will exploit them far worse then their mortal bosses ever could.
It has the bonus of being true.
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I think the issue here is they're a marginalised group. And they are angry at being mistreated and want to lash out. Is there something else we can do to build empathy first?

They're aren't willing to listen to Oliver anymore writing him off as the aristocratic upper class. Same people they had been living under the boots off. They're projecting.

When people get like that rational discourse kinda fails on them because they aren't really willing to listen to reason.
 
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_brightwing said:
I think the issue here is they're a marginalised group. And they are angry at being mistreated and want to lash out. Is there something else we can do to build empathy first?

They're aren't willing to listen to Oliver anymore writing him off as the aristocratic upper class. Same people they had been living under the boots off. They're projecting.
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True, but I'm not exactly sure what we can do about it. They aren't exactly wrong, Oliver is kinda privileged, by normal standards at least.
My thought was to undercut that by changing the context. Sure we are privileged by mortal standards, but by occult standards we are still closer to them then we are to any of the "bosses". In that context we aren't the aristocrat looking down, we are a fellow struggler trying to warn them.

So we point out that just because magic exists doesn't mean they have escaped their oppressors. It means they have become entangled with an entirely new set.

I'm just not so sure about how to phrase that eloquently.
 
[X] "I care." And..
-[X] Tell them about the orphans of Arkham who were being sold by the director to be eaten as a sacrifice. You cared enough to put a stop to that, the director left broken for the rest of his days.
-[X] You could not deny a desire to better ones circumstances. Not even the use of magic, to even the odds.
-[X] What was the price they took from her in turn?
-[X] Insinuate they have left one overlord for another now of another feather. You can show them true freedom, beholden to no one.

I understand we aren't sure but we still need to vote something.
 
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Hm. Decent start, let me see if I can elaborate on it a little.
I'm not sure bringing in the orphanage incident will help much since explaining it might take too much time. Also we kinda threw our money around more then a little for it.

[X] "I care."
-[X] You would not be talking to them if you did not care. You could have run. You could have fought.
-[X] You could not deny a desire to better ones circumstances. Nor even the use of magic, so long as it is done responsibly.
-[X] Gesture to the red band on their heads. They have not seized power on their own, but rather as pawns of another.
-[X] Insinuate they have left one overlord for another now of another feather. You can show them true freedom, beholden to no one.
 
I think Oliver could explain the orphanage through the broad strokes the cultists could understand as. Its simple as a few sentences with hints placed here and there.

Bringing up the orphans - another marginalised group is meant to get them to empathize. They're angry now. Justification won't reach them, when you get angry people to empathize with a situation - especially something relating to their own vulnerability it descalates the moment, I find.

I'll change my vote as I care And.. to differentiate them for the tally. Integrating the desire to better ones circumstances line though - that works well into the direction of conversation we're building.
 
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Hmm. I kinda get the point, but at the same time it feels too detached from the current situation? Like, sure we saved them, but to the people we are talking to now it is just words. We could be saying anything.
I'm also worried about including too many personally identifiable details.

The more immediate relevance we can pack in the better. Thus the referencing of our prior actions, and the gesturing to the headbands.
Maybe we could show our gun too? I don't want to accadently come off as threatening them, but we very much are in the position of "If I had chosen violence it would have gone very badly. For you." Even if you don't include the supernatural aspects.

I'm not sure asking about the price makes sense. They had someone else pay the price via sacrifice, so there might not be an immediate obvious personal cost (You know, besides the moral one).

Hmm. Actually it might make more sense to reference the Arkham adventure not in the sense of the orphans, but rather the hunger. They aren't in the role of the orphans in the story, but rather the cultists.
Point out what extremes such bad deals can drive people to. Previously they killed a person. What will they do tomorrow? How far will they go? How far will they fall? Yes they have their goals, but surely it would be worth it to search for another path.

So what do you think of this?

[X] Plan: "I care." v3
-[X] You would not be talking to them if you did not care. You could have run. You could have fought. Let them glimpse your gun in as non-threatening a manner as you can, perhaps making it look unintentional.
-[X] You could not deny a desire to better ones circumstances. Nor even the use of magic, so long as it is done responsibly.
-[X] Gesture to the red band on their heads. They have not seized power on their own, but rather as pawns of another oppressor.
-[X] Previously you encountered the pawns of another power driven to eating orphans for a taste of power. How far would they be willing to go? How far will they fall? Magic is real, but some paths are better then others. The one they walk will only grow darker and darker, if they survive.
-[X] Insinuate they have left one overlord for another now of another feather. You can show them true freedom, beholden to no one.
 
[X] Plan: "I care." v3


This works, details give Blacksheep more room to take things in different possible directions in the conversation. Oliver-pilot intelligently making use of the plans where ever applicable or not.
 
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  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by Blacksheep on Jun 21, 2024 at 9:22 PM, finished with 12 posts and 5 votes.
    • [X] Plan: "I care." v3
      -[X] You would not be talking to them if you did not care. You could have run. You could have fought. Let them glimpse your gun in as non-threatening a manner as you can, perhaps making it look unintentional.
      -[X] You could not deny a desire to better ones circumstances. Nor even the use of magic, so long as it is done responsibly.
      -[X] Gesture to the red band on their heads. They have not seized power on their own, but rather as pawns of another oppressor.
      -[X] Previously you encountered the pawns of another power driven to eating orphans for a taste of power. How far would they be willing to go? How far will they fall? Magic is real, but some paths are better then others. The one they walk will only grow darker and darker, if they survive.
      -[X] Insinuate they have left one overlord for another now of another feather. You can show them true freedom, beholden to no one.
    Click to expand...
     
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    Basement
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    • "No." You shook your head. "I've taught others how to use magic before. I plan to again. That's not why I care." You looked at them as solidly as you could. "I care because the occult can be dangerous. I have seen people die to it, I bear the scars of it." You briefly let your glamor flicker, giving them a glimpse of what might be underneath, too swift to form a true picture but enough for them to know you were hiding your true appearance.

    "I'm here because I can feel the occult workings here. It calls and rings, and it is not kind. It is similar to another place I found, that granted scraps of power in exchange for children served up to it. Mere scraps. And I see the same thing here, people slaving away and offering to something larger than themselves in exchange for tiny pieces of power."

    "It's more than we'd get otherwise," one growled.

    "It's not. I could show you another path," you told them. "One where you will receive more than scraps, and the price will not be nearly as heavy." The cultists frowned.

    "This is a trap," one declared. "You just want to persuade us to be your own minions, and leave behind the Bloody Tongue."

    "I don't need minions. I have friends and acquaintances that can aid me, and I am more than capable of acting for myself. I am just here to find more. I promise, I can grant you more than the Bloody Tongue will."

    The cultists listened with a thin hunger. They looked at each other before putting their weapons away and leaving. You took a deep breath. You'd done it, you'd persuaded them to listen to you. You would need to think of something to show them to help them, these rough men turned murderers. But for now, you were free to continue looking. You pressed further back and found your way down to the large heavy door at the bottom. Tribal signs were carved into it. You blinked and studied the door.

    [ ]Pick the lock
    [ ]Break it down
    [ ]Write-in
     
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    • The symbols aren't magic, just not something Oliver understands. The assumption would be it denotes something to the cult, but whether it means "room" or "power" or "big evil behind door" is unknown
     
    Oh wow it actually worked! I greatly look forward to indoctrinating these fine minions individuals. Cult quest! Cult quest :D

    Imma brainstorm some ideas later on what to do with these guys.
     
    [X] Smell the lock with the Familiars' senses. And the follow the smell of the keys. Take in the magics of the place with your occult senses to see other things of note.
     
    What can we offer them? We sent the last guy the reverend's direction but I'm not sure he'd appreciate a congregation of ex-cons to rehabilitate..

    Bloody tongue started off in Egypt right? Might not be too much of a stretch to worship Isis. They could do with some maternal guidance.. Learning the sacrifice of blood to make workings - on saner ends.

    Dream magic's is always an option too. Everyone sleeps. Jackson could take over, he's slowly learning that stuff. Irony that he's would end up leading the same people who tried to kill him. Heh. To defeat the likes of the doctor we might need the dream manpower. And the dream realm is much more forgiving of trial and error. They could bond with their own familiars there. Make a Dream castle.

    Oliver could teach them practical physical stuff like warding and instill that its their duty to fight and protect the mundane now that they can See.
     
    [X]Break it down

    Picking the lock slows us down.

    As for the ex-thugs, I was thinking singing. They can sing in harmony or solo, to work together or individually. Also, it's a method of expression that Oliver doesn't use. Hopefully that would make it clear that Oliver isn't manipulating them with expressions of his power.

    I don't know how to get them started with that though.

    I do like the idea of dreaming, but we're not good at dreams yet and I bet it's easy to get lost in dreams.

    Maybe set them up as trading partners with some deep ones? They can support themselves and buy options to expand as they wish?
     
    [X] Smell the lock with the Familiars' senses. And the follow the smell of the keys. Take in the magics of the place with your occult senses to see other things of note.
    [X] Pick the lock.

    No need to rush yet.
     
    [X] Smell the lock with the Familiars' senses. And the follow the smell of the keys. Take in the magics of the place with your occult senses to see other things of note.
    [X] Pick the lock.

    I like this idea.

    I disagree about the lack of a rush though. If it villain was smart, there was one extra person with the thugs. A smart villain likely chooses to get information instead of sending one extra (and very likely) meaningless thug against whatever opponent can take on a few folks used to fighting rough. Our time limit could be the travel time for that message to arrive plus the next level of response.
     
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  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by Blacksheep on Jun 24, 2024 at 9:21 PM, finished with 11 posts and 3 votes.
    • [X] Smell the lock with the Familiars' senses. And the follow the smell of the keys. Take in the magics of the place with your occult senses to see other things of note.
      [X] Pick the lock.
    Click to expand...
     
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