This line just reads as comedy, even though it's a serious one, from the sheer picture it paints. Battleships in human form are scary!

They don't even need their guns to be terrifying!

Taylor masses 36kt. That's roughly 3x the weight of the White House, 20x the weight of a typical 2,000 sq.ft home. All she'd have to do to end a fight is kick someone in the shin or step on their foot.
 
They don't even need their guns to be terrifying!

Taylor masses 36kt. That's roughly 3x the weight of the White House, 20x the weight of a typical 2,000 sq.ft home. All she'd have to do to end a fight is kick someone in the shin or step on their foot.
The whole dual physics thing is weird to try to think around. Could she adopt her real mass to kick someone without crashing through whatever she was standing on at the same time? I can't think of any material that would support 36 kilotons concentrated onto the area of one human foot.
 
Edit: As an aside out of curiosity, does anyone know if naval crews still train to repel boarders in the 20th/21st centuries? Just wondering. It seems extremely unlikely that such a thing could happen while a ship was at sea in the circumstances of modern warfare, but on the other hand the military is a strong believer in preparing for anything and boarding actions were certainly something in the navy's tallship roots.
They do. Usually by way of on board Marines, but they do train to repel boarders.
 
Speed matters in cases like that though.

Sure, she may mass 36kt, and she won't stop if she doesn't want to, but if she's moving at 5 km/h and whatever is in her way can itself be moved in the direction she's moving at 5km/h without issue there's no real problem except for the possible need to replace shoes or other ground to object interfaces.
 
Yeah, it's possible Haida didn't lie to her, and didn't know the purpose of the briefing beforehand.
Just to play devils' advocate here. Not saying this is WoG or anything. But Haida may have mislead, omitted, and equivocated, but never technically lied. If she were as much of an asshole to the english language as I am. :)
"No, I can't tell you what the operation is.
...Because I haven't been to the briefing yet; where I will also be presenting a report on your abilities."
OpSec's tight on this one
True! Especially because I've had a relatively recent, very personal reminder that loose lips sink (relation)ships!
even I don't know what the brief is for.
"Seriously, they could just look you up on wikipedia. I know what it's about and who it's to; but not the purpose that we're having it."
PRT and Protectorate normally have a joint meeting on Mondays, but Wards don't get invited to those."
"A Ward does, because he's the team leader, but not Wards, plural, on normal Monday meetings."

They don't even need their guns to be terrifying!

Taylor masses 36kt. That's roughly 3x the weight of the White House, 20x the weight of a typical 2,000 sq.ft home. All she'd have to do to end a fight is kick someone in the shin or step on their foot.
If it helps give you a sense of scale: Imagine an eighty two story skyscraper, laying on its side. Picture it moving at typical driving speeds. Now picture it kicking you in the face.
 
If it helps give you a sense of scale: Imagine an eighty two story skyscraper, laying on its side. Picture it moving at typical driving speeds. Now picture it kicking you in the face.
Face? What face? XD

So does the power somehow enable them to selectively apply their mass to one part of the body but not another to avoid things like sinking through the floor while kicking harder than Alexandria at the same time?
 
I visited the USS Yorktown (CV/CVA/CVS-10) in Charleston two weeks ago, she's a big ship. Little Laffee-chan USS Laffey (DD-724) sitting next to her is much much smaller. Climbed into her 5-in gun mount, tight fit (yes the one destroyed by the kamikaze attack). We joked afterwards that we could fit the destroyer in Yorktowns hanger.
 
Here is a page with some historical analysis of the Murderer's Row photograph. Note the USS Lexington (CV-16) is not in the main row but off to the left of the photo.

Historical "Murderer's Row" Photograph at Ulithi Update | Naval Historical Foundation

Update on a photographic query from 2012 by David Stubblebine of the World War II Database
Note that all the other Essexes are in Measure 33 dazzle camouflage and are hanging out like friends; while Lexington's the creepy loner off by herself there and really shows Taylor's habit of wearing dark, bland colors to try and blend in with the Measure 21 that got her the nickname Blue Ghost. Lexington's the only Essex that never wore dazzle-type camo during the war.
 
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If her 4.7 inch guns can penetrate the Lexington's belt armor (I checked some tables, it looks like they could at roughly 2000 yards or less with WW2 style shells. Unknown penetration on Dragon's shells.) I doubt she has enough ammunition to actually sink an Essex by punching it full of small holes with those

You wouldn't be punching it full of holes to kill with 4.7inch.

You would be hoping like hell you get a golden BB and hit a magazine space or two.
 
The end is just silly. How do we move the super villains to a different town. Idk how about the girl that turns into a warship loads me up and goes out to sea than to New York.
 
We actually did briefly back during Taylor's trigger event; for precisely long enough not to crush Haida like an empty soda can.
The question is, is Haida deliberately hiding that information? Because that's the sort of thing that should definitly have appeared in the briefing she gave.

This line just reads as comedy, even though it's a serious one, from the sheer picture it paints. Battleships in human form are scary!
They WISH Taylor was a battleship. The difference between the armor levels isn't significant and there pretty much aren't any targets she can't take with her aircraft, that could be taken with 16" guns, while having a much greater range.
Something about it that struck me; presumably the only way Dani could possibly stop Taylor is by torpedoing her. I
That may be the only way to kill her, it's certainly not the only way to stop her. I'm not sure how Haida's containment foam rounds would interact with Taylor, but if she could drop a 5" containment foam round on Taylor's deck Taylor isn't going to be launching any planes for at least a few hours, and might be able to disable all the guns with a dozen rounds, then she's "just" a high level brute. Even with conventional rounds mission kill is much easier than actual killing.

I was always under the impression that military folk were fairly understanding of their allies having extensive plans about how to destroy them utterly, since they had to review the plans about how to destroy those same allies. :)
I assume that was the point about "depending on how military Taylor's mindset is..." because yes, if she's thinking like a military officer, or even better an Essex class fleet carrier she'd probably take that as a compliment, or start arguing with Haida that there's no way Haida could take her out in a serious fight...
However if she's thinking like an abused 15 y/o girl with repeated bad experience with authority, she'd likely react very badly to finding out about that meeting. Fortunately Taylor has a crew* so is not likely to react negatively.

*Although Piggot is forgiven for not seeing it that way once she realizes what having several thousand highly trained thieves and pranksters under Taylor's command means...:)

Thinking about Taylor's ratings:
Breaker: Her fog form, but no idea what breaker rating.
Brute 9 (Duh. also stated in the story)
Mover: depends on the exact details of her fog form anywhere from 3 (if it doesn't actually help her move in ways humans can't so her mover rating is just her ship form) to 6 (if she can move at her ship speed in fog form and move through any opening large enough for fog to go through). I'd guess probably 5-6.
Master: Haida said 6-8 but seems to have overlooked the fact that Taylor's crew can leave her and handle various tasks on their own so I'd say 8 at minimum, possibly 9.
Blaster: 9, again duh.
Shaker:Might get folded into the blaster and master ratings, but I think between cluster bombs, her demolitions teams, and the crew's ability to sneak around she might need a 2-3 here.
Changer: probably only 1-2, unless her shifting from ship girl to girl is also counted as breaker, in which case nothing here.
Thinker: Oh boy. Just her ship senses probably count as 3 or 4, adding her crew spreading out and gathering information and the indirect skills they bring probably 5-6, if they "acquire" modern electronics to upgrade Taylor's sensors might as well call it 7, possibly 8.
Stranger: Might get folded into her master ability since it's only via her crew

You would be hoping like hell you get a golden BB and hit a magazine space or two.
Or simply going for mission kill.
 
I guess this probably says more about me than anything else, but every time I hear Taylor referred to as Lexington, my brain immedietely imagines her with pink hair.

...And a landing strip that is also a gun but looks like a strip of bacon.
 
The end is just silly. How do we move the super villains to a different town. Idk how about the girl that turns into a warship loads me up and goes out to sea than to New York.
huh, got to have some friendly capes inside too otherwise she might get indigestion if they get out and start wrecking her internals
 
"Mitscher's chief of staff was Arleigh Burke. I'm just making sure he's not trying to jump ship and get back on board a destroyer."

"I've got marines watching him. Again."
Now I have this mental image of a chibi-form Arleigh Burke sitting on the deck, his arms tied up behind him with a rope wrapped around his chest, surrounded by chibi-form marines and shouting 'But she doesn't even have a crew! I can fix that!'

"Please don't piss off the fleet carrier."
Pissing off aircraft carriers is a terrible idea, don't do it.

Something about it that struck me; presumably the only way Dani could possibly stop Taylor is by torpedoing her.
Torpedoing a shipgirl is very tricky, they are much tinier targets than a real ship and consequently much more maneuverable. Plus they can totally just jump over an incoming torpedo, and torpedoes are not maneuverable.

huh, got to have some friendly capes inside too otherwise she might get indigestion if they get out and start wrecking her internals
I think they also need Vista to do her space-warping shenanigans to get people into and out of the imaginary boat-space. Or a teleporter, but those are in pretty high demand.
 
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You wouldn't be punching it full of holes to kill with 4.7inch.

You would be hoping like hell you get a golden BB and hit a magazine space or two.
I don't have schematics but I suspect the magazine spaces are protected by the additional 4 inches of armored bulkhead on top of the belt armor, in which case I don't think Haida's guns are getting through unless Dragon's rounds have substantially more penetration than the WW2 ones. Maybe if they're tungsten, depleted uranium, or sabot rounds.

Although the hangar is definitely less well protected, being too big to armor as well, so aircraft would be good targets if they were loaded with fuel and munitions.

Interesting bit of trivia, the penetration testing charts I dug up gave significantly different numbers against the differently treated steels of the main powers in the war. The best was the U.S. armor, which stopped projectiles in about half the distance of the worst, the Japanese, who appeared to be using an outdated armor designed by Vickers. The UK and German armors were almost as good as the U.S. stuff, the UK's just edging out the German.
 
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"Aside from the previous notes? Same as me, I'd guess. Though attempting to run her out of ammo isn't a good strategy. A full itemized inventory of her magazines is appendix C of the briefing documents, but to summarize: Two hundred twenty four tons of five inch shells. Three hundred twelve tons of forty mil. Six hundred twenty five tons of mixed aircraft ordnance."

This paragraph was nagging me so I went and ran some numbers. I think you got the weight her self defense ammunition a bit high. Do you have a source for those figures?

My info for defensive gun armament is as follows.
  • Twelve 5-inch guns with 5,400 rounds of 5 inch weighing 148.986 short tons. Normal load is 450 rounds per gun.
  • Sixty Four 40mm guns with 128,000 rounds of 40mm weighing 304 short tons. Normal load, 2000 rounds per gun.
  • If I counted right CV-16 had Fifty Seven 20mm guns at in late 1945. With a guesstimate of 3600 rounds per gun that would be 205,200 rounds of 20mm totaling 54.50625 short tons.
If Haida is not careful she could have Taylor obsessing over her displacement just when she is getting help for the image problem the trio caused. The amount she is going to have to eat to fill her fuel bunkers and av-gas tanks is going to throw her for a loop as is. ;)
 
While I suspect it is theoretically possible for a single Tribal-class Destroyer to sink an Essex-class Aircraft Carrier, the odds of it actually happening unless the Carrier sits still and doesn't do anything are probably sufficiently minuscule as to be irrelevant for all practical purposes.

E: Wait, I've gotten myself confused, she's the Essex-class Lexington, not the original Lexington, whoops. That doesn't actually improve things, that Lexington had an incredibly annoying (for the Japanese) trait of showing up again after they thought it had been sunk, fixed post.
 
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Thinking about Taylor's ratings:

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Threat Ratings Are Not Power Levels

Worm canon typically assigns a single category for someone, to indicate which of several tactical doctrines should be implemented when facing the threat. Skitter having all sorts of multiple ratings was a Special Snowflake level anomaly.

At the end of the day, all her ratings boil down to "She's a living ship and, therefore, incredibly tough. She can also rain hell on everything within several miles of her, nigh-simultaneously."

That's a simple Breaker(Brute/Shaker) 9. That tells the field teams. Her body composition isn't human. Most weapons are useless. Cover is useless. Don't engage at close range. Don't cluster up. Don't sit still. In fact, don't engage at all without explicit prior orders. If engagement is required, evacuate everyone from the surrounding area and be prepared to lose a chunk of city.
 
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I'd say Brute/Shaker 9 with a Master subtype for the planes (they are minions, and if you can shoot them down that does reduce her threat level), rather than straight Brute/Shaker 9, but otherwise yes there's no need for all the extra ratings. Might possibly be justified going Thinker/Master subtype because of the information warfare/gathering component of her planes and sensors (radar, radio, etc), but Blaster, Breaker, Changer and Stranger ratings are definitely all superfluous from a threat rating standpoint.

And yeah, a rating of 9 in any form is a 'don't engage at all, run the fuck away' response. A 9 is basically a 'this person is too dangerous to engage without specific tactics and planning' rating, regardless of category. Ratings over 9 are just increments of the 'oh shit, run away' factor rather than any meaningful difference.
 
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Interesting bit of trivia, the penetration testing charts I dug up gave significantly different numbers against the differently treated steels of the main powers in the war.

There was at least one case on action where 6" U.S. armor caught an 8" armor piercing shell.
(source, see section "Hit 5")
photo:

As far as Haida neutralizing Lexington, her best course of action would likely be to try to crater or sweep her flight deck by shooting from high ground. This is, obviously, impractical in a traditional naval engagement.
 
Something about it that struck me; presumably the only way Dani could possibly stop Taylor is by torpedoing her.
Ramming maybe?

The end is just silly. How do we move the super villains to a different town. Idk how about the girl that turns into a warship loads me up and goes out to sea than to New York.
Yes Baldrick, that would be a good plan. But it wouldn't be a cunning plan. A plan as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed the Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.
Thinking about Taylor's ratings:
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Threat Ratings Are Not Power Levels

Worm canon typically assigns a single category for someone, to indicate which of several tactical doctrines should be implemented when facing the threat. Skitter having all sorts of multiple ratings was a Special Snowflake level anomaly.

At the end of the day, all her ratings boil down to "She's incredibly tough, and can rain hell on everything within several miles of her, nigh-simultaneously."

That's a simple Brute/Shaker 9: Most weapons are useless. Cover is useless. Don't engage at close range. Don't cluster up. Don't sit still. In fact, don't engage at all without explicit prior orders. If engagement is required, evacuate everyone from the surrounding area and be prepared to lose a chunk of city.
This.

This paragraph was nagging me so I went and ran some numbers. I think you got the weight her self defense ammunition a bit high. Do you have a source for those figures?

My info for defensive gun armament is as follows.
  • Twelve 5-inch guns with 5,400 rounds of 5 inch weighing 148.986 short tons. Normal load is 450 rounds per gun.
  • Sixty Four 40mm guns with 128,000 rounds of 40mm weighing 304 short tons. Normal load, 2000 rounds per gun.
  • If I counted right CV-16 had Fifty Seven 20mm guns at in late 1945. With a guesstimate of 3600 rounds per gun that would be 205,200 rounds of 20mm totaling 54.50625 short tons.
Pacifc War gives the total munitions load of an Essex-class (as designed) at 1,601 tons. Steel Navy specifies that 625.5 tons of that is Aviation Ordnance. We're close to agreeing on her Bofors ammo load (What's 8 tons of 40mm between friends?) . For her 5" inch shells, I'm getting an all-up round weight of about 83lbs. 55.18lbs (shell) + 15.2lbs (propellant charge) + 12.31lbs (cartridge case). I may be making a math error somewhere in there. Probably somewhere in unit coversion.

I feel your number of 20mm per gun is low. At 60 rounds per drum, that's only 60 drums of 20mm available per gun. With a practical rate of fire of 4-5 drums per minute (allowing for magazine and barrel changes), your number would only give an Essex 15 minutes of sustained 20mm fire. Admittedly those are the 'last line of defense guns and I'm assuming you're firing all guns at once.

Now I have this mental image of a chibi-form Arleigh Burke sitting on the deck, his arms tied up behind him with a rope wrapped around his chest, surrounded by chibi-form marines and shouting 'But she doesn't even have a crew! I can fix that!'
Burke had come to Mitscher from destroyers, and it was well known that he preferred a fighting command over his new role as chief-of-staff. When a destroyer came alongside to refuel from the carrier, the admiral directed a Marine sentry nearby: "Secure Captain Burke, till that destroyer casts off."

I think they also need Vista to do her space-warping shenanigans to get people into and out of the imaginary boat-space. Or a teleporter, but those are in pretty high demand.
... You mean, like they did during search and rescue operations ahead of Behemoth's attack on Naples, Italy? Gee, I wonder if Assault could make a movie reference out of that. :drevil:
 
Threat Ratings Are Not Power Levels
I've said that a few times myself, no need to repeat it.
At the end of the day, all her ratings boil down to "She's a living ship and, therefore, incredibly tough. She can also rain hell on everything within several miles of her, nigh-simultaneously."
No, they don't. That is the point. You have that, and in addition to that you have:
1)Her ability to fully control with no degradation due to multi-tasking 100 planes which can fly several hundred miles away from her.
2)Her ability to turn into fog (details on this ability not clear yet).
3)Her ability to have her crew (which includes a sizable complement of marines and at least one UDT (the predecessor of the SEALs) team leave her and act independently (we don't know if she can see what her crew see when off board or if they "just" act independently of her, but either way that's a powerful master ability.
That's a simple Breaker(Brute/Shaker) 9.
With an addition of Thinker and mover, and that's just the basic ship, not counting the fact she's a carrier or the other abilities I noted above. You may have a point that it should be shaker instead of Blaster, as I noted it sort of bridges both but I think it's more of a blaster ability than a shaker one, despite having AoE attacks.
 
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