Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
His meeting as a child with Tsunehisa definitely didn't happen, but I was willing to include.
Nobunaga's Ambition: Tenka Fubu
- Thread starter Leingod
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His meeting as a child with Tsunehisa definitely didn't happen, but I was willing to include.
Prologue, pt. 4
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
You take his hand - having to briefly decide against trying to pull him into the puddle with you - and hoist yourself up. As soon as you're upright, Lord Kippōshi hurries off, with you struggling to keep pace.
---X---
16 Tenbun (1547)
Over the next two years, your education proceeds apace, and you spend time with Lord Kippōshi and his friends; the ones of good houses, at any right, because as it turns out Lord Kippōshi thinks nothing of playing with even common boys from town or the outlying farms! A few of the rowdier boys, like Inuchiyo, follow him when he does so, but never without Lord Kippōshi with them.
You honestly don't understand him. He's so undisciplined and rude, yet never misses the opportunity to brag of the things he'll accomplish in the future; it's no wonder you've heard people whispering that the heir to the Oda is a fool. That said…
---X---
"Is it true?" Gorō asks Lord Kippōshi. You're all at one of your favorite places to go, a hill with a huge, ancient, gnarled tree perched atop it that's perfect for climbing and provides a spectacular view of the surrounding flat lands. All of you are as high up in the tree as you dare to go.
Lord Kippōshi, as usual, has ascended to the very top of the tree, perched atop the highest branch that can support his weight. "Is what true?" he asked casually.
"That you're going to be given Nagoya Castle!" Gorō exclaimed.
"Wait, what!?" Inuchiyo yells in surprise. You don't verbalize it, but you're in agreement with the sentiment.
"Oh, that. Yeah, it's true. Dad told me I'm taking my genpuku soon and he's giving me Nagoya," Lord Kippōshi says. You have to hold in a wince at his referring to his lord father as "Dad."
"That's what they'll tell people, anyway," he continues, sounding a bit bitter. "The Old Man's going to be calling most of the shots. 'While you gain some experience,' he said."
"Well of course," you speak up. "You're only thirteen and you always make everyone worry with the way you act."
"Shut up," Lord Kippōshi says, snapping off a twig and tossing it at you without looking, with the ease of long practice. With just as much practice, you tilt your head so that it avoids you.
"If you want people to take you seriously, shouldn't you act more properly?" you ask.
"Why should I? Being 'proper' hasn't helped any other daimyō take the nation," he replies. "How are you going to do something great if you're so hung up on acting the way everyone else wants you to act?"
There it is again. Every now and then, he talks as if taking control of the whole nation is something simple for him. Even a kid as young as you knows that, as they are right now, the Oda don't have the faintest chance of doing something like that.
Even Lord Nobuhide, the "Tiger of Owari," hasn't been making many serious gains these days. Ōgaki Castle in Mino and Ansho Castle in Mikawa are as far as he's gotten. Daimyō great and small have spent their whole lives making just the slightest gains, and even the greatest of them don't control more than two or three provinces.
"Anyway, it's not really gonna change much," he says sullenly. "Dad just wants someone here at Nagoya while he launches a new campaign in Mino; plans to take out the Viper once and for all now that the Asakura and Imagawa are too busy to get in the way. Which means I don't even get to participate."
"So where's Lord Oda going to stay if he's giving Nagoya to you?" you ask. "Narumi?"
"Nah. He's building a new castle at Suemori," Lord Kippōshi explains. "It's closer to the border with both Mino and Mikawa, so he can act faster if something happens. Kanjurō and Mom are going with him."
Looking at the sun, Lord Kippōshi begins to climb down the tree, with everyone hastening to follow him. "Come on, I better not keep the Old Man waiting too long."
"Too long for what? Classes are already over," Gorō asks.
"My genpuku; it's today," he says simply.
"What!? Why are you so casual about that?" you ask.
"Because I'm not going to be actually running Nagoya, and I'm not actually going to be going out on campaign, so it's just a pointless gesture," he replies testily.
"Still, you'll be taking on an adult name, adult duties…" Gorō frets, listing things out while everyone tunes him out; even you do it sometimes. He can be very long-winded sometimes.
"Yeah, yeah, whatever," Kippōshi says, shaking his head. "Oh, I am gonna need some pages though."
He stops and turns around, looking all of you up and down. Everyone suddenly stands straight, as if they were soldiers at inspection.
"Inuchiyo, Rikimaru, you're the youngest ones, right?" Lord Kippōshi asks. "Great, you're going to be my pages."
"Yes!" Inuchiyo exclaims happily. "That means we get to follow you on campaigns and hold your banners and stuff, right!?"
"While he's here at Nagoya, all we'll be doing is running errands for him," you point out, deflating the slightly older boy's enthusiasm.
"Yep. And since you're the youngest, I won't have to come up with replacements for a few years yet," he says with a grin. "Now come on, let's go."
On that day, you and Inuchiyo helped your lord don his adult garb and weapons, while Sir Masahide lectured at length about the duties and propriety expected of him as a samurai and a man, and bestowed his adult name on him, pronouncing him Oda Nobunaga.
At home, your father celebrated your being made one of his pages…
---X---
You dig into the red beans and rice that have been prepared to celebrate the occasion. Brother, though, hardly touches his own.
"Is something wrong, Tatsumaru?" Mother asks. "Are you ill?"
Your mother was named Sae, and she was of the Yanada, a very minor clan of vassals to the Oda. She'd lost many of her family members in various battles, and was constantly worrying and fussing over all of you.
"It's not that, Mother, it's just… should we really be celebrating this?" Brother asked.
"What do you mean? Rikimaru's been made page to the heir apparent to the Nagoya, and you've made close friends with the spare," Father replies. "My father has always said that we Kanma will prosper best if we can ensure that we are on the winning side no matter who comes to dominate Owari, and this is an important step in ensuring that."
"But should that mean hitching poor Riki to a fool?" Brother asks. "What'll happen to his reputation if he keeps being party to his odd behavior? He shows too much potential to waste it on a fool who can't even dress himself properly."
"Those are dangerous words to speak of the lord of this castle," your father says in a low tone. "Keep a good hold of your tongue, Tatsumaru."
"Fine. But Riki, you don't have to go along with everything he says," Brother tells you. "Just… think very carefully about where your loyalties should be. It's good to be loyal to one's lord, but not when that means lashing yourself to a sinking ship."
The red beans don't really taste as good after that, and there's no more conversation for the rest of the night.
---X---
The next day, you and Inuchiyo begin your duties as pages, moving into Nagoya Castle proper to attend to Lord Nobunaga. Mostly, that means helping him with menial tasks, relaying his messages to staff or retainers, and other minor chores that keep him from wasting his valuable time.
As you go about delivering a message, you're stopped by a boy you recognize from your brother's description as Lord Kanjurō, Lord Nobunaga's younger brother by two years, and bow deeply, as is appropriate.
"My, you're much more proper than I'd expect of someone my brother chose as a page," he notes. "Then again, you're Tatsumaru's brother, right? Rikimaru? He speaks of you often."
"I'm honored that you know of me, my lord," you answer, for lack of anything else to say.
"He worries a lot about you, you know, though he doesn't say it. Thinks that being around my brother too much might be bad for your reputation. But while it might be harmful to you in some ways, there are ways it could pay off greatly for you and your family."
"My lord?"
"My brother is very generous with his friends and those close to him," Lord Kanjurō says. "You might not believe me, but he dotes on our sisters endlessly because they find his behavior amusing. Depending on how close to him you get, you can be sure of reward.
"But while I'm not like my brothers in many ways, I like to think I can be generous to those who do well for me as well," he continues. "Father, Mother and I will be leaving for Suemori soon, but this is my home; it's where I was born and where I've spent my whole life up to now. I'd like to know that Brother isn't doing anything like rearranging the garden because of a silly whim. Do you think you might send me a letter or two every now and again, to keep me updated on how he's handling this place?"
Is… is that spying? Is he asking you to spy on Lord Nobunaga? Would he get mad if you asked if that's what was going on?
[] Humbly refuse
[] Humbly accept
[] Humbly ask for confirmation on what he means
---X---
16 Tenbun (1547)
Over the next two years, your education proceeds apace, and you spend time with Lord Kippōshi and his friends; the ones of good houses, at any right, because as it turns out Lord Kippōshi thinks nothing of playing with even common boys from town or the outlying farms! A few of the rowdier boys, like Inuchiyo, follow him when he does so, but never without Lord Kippōshi with them.
You honestly don't understand him. He's so undisciplined and rude, yet never misses the opportunity to brag of the things he'll accomplish in the future; it's no wonder you've heard people whispering that the heir to the Oda is a fool. That said…
---X---
"Is it true?" Gorō asks Lord Kippōshi. You're all at one of your favorite places to go, a hill with a huge, ancient, gnarled tree perched atop it that's perfect for climbing and provides a spectacular view of the surrounding flat lands. All of you are as high up in the tree as you dare to go.
Lord Kippōshi, as usual, has ascended to the very top of the tree, perched atop the highest branch that can support his weight. "Is what true?" he asked casually.
"That you're going to be given Nagoya Castle!" Gorō exclaimed.
"Wait, what!?" Inuchiyo yells in surprise. You don't verbalize it, but you're in agreement with the sentiment.
"Oh, that. Yeah, it's true. Dad told me I'm taking my genpuku soon and he's giving me Nagoya," Lord Kippōshi says. You have to hold in a wince at his referring to his lord father as "Dad."
"That's what they'll tell people, anyway," he continues, sounding a bit bitter. "The Old Man's going to be calling most of the shots. 'While you gain some experience,' he said."
"Well of course," you speak up. "You're only thirteen and you always make everyone worry with the way you act."
"Shut up," Lord Kippōshi says, snapping off a twig and tossing it at you without looking, with the ease of long practice. With just as much practice, you tilt your head so that it avoids you.
"If you want people to take you seriously, shouldn't you act more properly?" you ask.
"Why should I? Being 'proper' hasn't helped any other daimyō take the nation," he replies. "How are you going to do something great if you're so hung up on acting the way everyone else wants you to act?"
There it is again. Every now and then, he talks as if taking control of the whole nation is something simple for him. Even a kid as young as you knows that, as they are right now, the Oda don't have the faintest chance of doing something like that.
Even Lord Nobuhide, the "Tiger of Owari," hasn't been making many serious gains these days. Ōgaki Castle in Mino and Ansho Castle in Mikawa are as far as he's gotten. Daimyō great and small have spent their whole lives making just the slightest gains, and even the greatest of them don't control more than two or three provinces.
"Anyway, it's not really gonna change much," he says sullenly. "Dad just wants someone here at Nagoya while he launches a new campaign in Mino; plans to take out the Viper once and for all now that the Asakura and Imagawa are too busy to get in the way. Which means I don't even get to participate."
"So where's Lord Oda going to stay if he's giving Nagoya to you?" you ask. "Narumi?"
"Nah. He's building a new castle at Suemori," Lord Kippōshi explains. "It's closer to the border with both Mino and Mikawa, so he can act faster if something happens. Kanjurō and Mom are going with him."
Looking at the sun, Lord Kippōshi begins to climb down the tree, with everyone hastening to follow him. "Come on, I better not keep the Old Man waiting too long."
"Too long for what? Classes are already over," Gorō asks.
"My genpuku; it's today," he says simply.
"What!? Why are you so casual about that?" you ask.
"Because I'm not going to be actually running Nagoya, and I'm not actually going to be going out on campaign, so it's just a pointless gesture," he replies testily.
"Still, you'll be taking on an adult name, adult duties…" Gorō frets, listing things out while everyone tunes him out; even you do it sometimes. He can be very long-winded sometimes.
"Yeah, yeah, whatever," Kippōshi says, shaking his head. "Oh, I am gonna need some pages though."
He stops and turns around, looking all of you up and down. Everyone suddenly stands straight, as if they were soldiers at inspection.
"Inuchiyo, Rikimaru, you're the youngest ones, right?" Lord Kippōshi asks. "Great, you're going to be my pages."
"Yes!" Inuchiyo exclaims happily. "That means we get to follow you on campaigns and hold your banners and stuff, right!?"
"While he's here at Nagoya, all we'll be doing is running errands for him," you point out, deflating the slightly older boy's enthusiasm.
"Yep. And since you're the youngest, I won't have to come up with replacements for a few years yet," he says with a grin. "Now come on, let's go."
On that day, you and Inuchiyo helped your lord don his adult garb and weapons, while Sir Masahide lectured at length about the duties and propriety expected of him as a samurai and a man, and bestowed his adult name on him, pronouncing him Oda Nobunaga.
At home, your father celebrated your being made one of his pages…
---X---
You dig into the red beans and rice that have been prepared to celebrate the occasion. Brother, though, hardly touches his own.
"Is something wrong, Tatsumaru?" Mother asks. "Are you ill?"
Your mother was named Sae, and she was of the Yanada, a very minor clan of vassals to the Oda. She'd lost many of her family members in various battles, and was constantly worrying and fussing over all of you.
"It's not that, Mother, it's just… should we really be celebrating this?" Brother asked.
"What do you mean? Rikimaru's been made page to the heir apparent to the Nagoya, and you've made close friends with the spare," Father replies. "My father has always said that we Kanma will prosper best if we can ensure that we are on the winning side no matter who comes to dominate Owari, and this is an important step in ensuring that."
"But should that mean hitching poor Riki to a fool?" Brother asks. "What'll happen to his reputation if he keeps being party to his odd behavior? He shows too much potential to waste it on a fool who can't even dress himself properly."
"Those are dangerous words to speak of the lord of this castle," your father says in a low tone. "Keep a good hold of your tongue, Tatsumaru."
"Fine. But Riki, you don't have to go along with everything he says," Brother tells you. "Just… think very carefully about where your loyalties should be. It's good to be loyal to one's lord, but not when that means lashing yourself to a sinking ship."
The red beans don't really taste as good after that, and there's no more conversation for the rest of the night.
---X---
The next day, you and Inuchiyo begin your duties as pages, moving into Nagoya Castle proper to attend to Lord Nobunaga. Mostly, that means helping him with menial tasks, relaying his messages to staff or retainers, and other minor chores that keep him from wasting his valuable time.
As you go about delivering a message, you're stopped by a boy you recognize from your brother's description as Lord Kanjurō, Lord Nobunaga's younger brother by two years, and bow deeply, as is appropriate.
"My, you're much more proper than I'd expect of someone my brother chose as a page," he notes. "Then again, you're Tatsumaru's brother, right? Rikimaru? He speaks of you often."
"I'm honored that you know of me, my lord," you answer, for lack of anything else to say.
"He worries a lot about you, you know, though he doesn't say it. Thinks that being around my brother too much might be bad for your reputation. But while it might be harmful to you in some ways, there are ways it could pay off greatly for you and your family."
"My lord?"
"My brother is very generous with his friends and those close to him," Lord Kanjurō says. "You might not believe me, but he dotes on our sisters endlessly because they find his behavior amusing. Depending on how close to him you get, you can be sure of reward.
"But while I'm not like my brothers in many ways, I like to think I can be generous to those who do well for me as well," he continues. "Father, Mother and I will be leaving for Suemori soon, but this is my home; it's where I was born and where I've spent my whole life up to now. I'd like to know that Brother isn't doing anything like rearranging the garden because of a silly whim. Do you think you might send me a letter or two every now and again, to keep me updated on how he's handling this place?"
Is… is that spying? Is he asking you to spy on Lord Nobunaga? Would he get mad if you asked if that's what was going on?
[] Humbly refuse
[] Humbly accept
[] Humbly ask for confirmation on what he means
This is the reason that strict rules of succession can be beneficial.
Sure, there's a higher chance of someone unsuitable succeeding, but at the same time, there's a lower chance of internal conflict that exposes the dynasty to external threats. Regardless, my initial instinct is to refuse, but I am curious whether it would be possible to accept and then inform Nobunaga about it as soon as possible. Would that be too out-of-character?
Sure, there's a higher chance of someone unsuitable succeeding, but at the same time, there's a lower chance of internal conflict that exposes the dynasty to external threats. Regardless, my initial instinct is to refuse, but I am curious whether it would be possible to accept and then inform Nobunaga about it as soon as possible. Would that be too out-of-character?
EmpirePlayer
Anyone need some chaos?
- Location
- Penang
[X] Humbly refuse
Daga Kotowaru. A samurai only has his pride and regrets at the end. And I intend to have Rikkimaru have as few regrets as possible.
Not really in the right state of mind to make a proper response post this time. Sorry.
Daga Kotowaru. A samurai only has his pride and regrets at the end. And I intend to have Rikkimaru have as few regrets as possible.
Not really in the right state of mind to make a proper response post this time. Sorry.
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
He's not yet really got the presence of mind to do stuff like that, as regardless of how clever for his age he is, he's all of 8 years old (7 actually, by modern standards), and this kind of thinking doesn't come to him naturally.
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Crow
Falling is a Pleasure. Regardless of its Fate
Ah. that would be interest-
Curses. foiled again.
- Location
- My room
[X] Humbly refuse
- Location
- Germany
Super-close to The Nobunaga! Yes!
As Page we'll meet everyone the Lord meets, right?
I would prefer to Humbly Refuse, but that's a sure way to have Nobunaga's brother see us as an obstacle... I think that the honest straight-arrow types of people don't live long in the Sengoku Jidai.
Maybe we could say Yes to the spying, but tell our Lord about it and use it in the future against the brother - just in case?
As Page we'll meet everyone the Lord meets, right?
I would prefer to Humbly Refuse, but that's a sure way to have Nobunaga's brother see us as an obstacle... I think that the honest straight-arrow types of people don't live long in the Sengoku Jidai.
Maybe we could say Yes to the spying, but tell our Lord about it and use it in the future against the brother - just in case?
EmpirePlayer
Anyone need some chaos?
- Location
- Penang
I might be horribly wrong, but I think Niwa Goro is Niwa Nagahide.
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
Yeah. His actual childhood name is unknown, so I took a piece of his courtesy name (Gorozaemon) that could work as a childhood name.
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
You'll be polite about it and do your best not to make it a factional thing.
EmpirePlayer
Anyone need some chaos?
- Location
- Penang
But whether or not Nobuyuki will take it that way remains to be seen. Still though, I highly suspect that we'll have to end up subduing or killing our bro as the first true test of the MC's loyalty when they revolt. Pride and regrets. (I like throwing something mentioned IC back at the MC, if I feel its quotable enough)
Also, I like the way you've portrayed Nobunaga thus far. Right now, everyone thinks he's sprouting bullshit, but you can tell what kind of person he is just from what he does. (Granted, we have the gift of hindsight, which means we know he ain't hot air, but almost no one else knows that IC) Bold enough to be willing to climb the highest he can. Also, MC feels like he mellowed out a bit towards Nobunaga while retaining a sense of doubt that is perfectly reasonable. That scene where they casually banter is nice.
Yea, that's fine. I figured that one if only because Niwa. There's only one major Niwa I know of. (I still kek at how the Oda Nobuna version is the most well-known portrayal according to google) Guess being silently competent means writers tend to dismiss you a bit.
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Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
[X] Humbly refuse
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
Incidentally, the Mōri are going to be getting a lot of attention, simply because of how big an impact they have in Japanese history, both during the Sengoku Jidai and beyond.
Sekigahara might not even happen and will likely be very heavily butterflied if it does, but historically, as much as people both then and now like to rag on Mitsunari for basically giving the fight away to Ieyasu, he still had a pretty decent chance of winning. More than any of Ieyasu's skill or Mitsunari's mistakes, the Mōri are probably the most responsible party for how Sekigahara went down, since every single one of them either did as little as possible or outright defected despite being the West's nominal leaders and making up the bulk of their military forces. Seriously, they gave their own side as big a kneecapping as they possibly could throughout the whole debacle, and the West still managed to put up a good fight for a while.
Incidentally, this did not pay off for them as well as any of them hoped, and their bitterness had about 250 years to stew before they finally took a leading role (along with the Shimazu and Chōsokabe retainers) in overthrowing the Tokugawa Shōgunate and kicking off the Meiji Restoration.
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Personally, I Blame the Mōri
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
You know what, screw it, I might as well rant about this one. So here's why the Mōri deserve more blame for the West's loss than anything Mitsunari actually did.
First of all, let's look at the numbers. All told, the initial breakdown of troops is that we have 120,000 men for the Western Army, and 75,000 for the Eastern Army, more or less. Meaning by numbers alone, the West has a pretty hefty advantage.
So while it's true that Mitsunari's background as a bureaucrat rather than a warrior (and his own rather abrasive personality) lost the West a lot of potential support, particularly from skilled commanders like Katō Kiyomasa and Fukushima Masanori, and Ieyasu had spent months assuring many of the supporters he did have that they'd be given lenience or even rewarded for going neutral or defecting, it was hardly enough to be the deciding factor on its own.
Unfortunately, two weeks before the events that culminated in Sekighara went down, the Mōri and their vassals/allies the Kikkawa and Kobayakawa, had already made a deal of neutrality with the Tokugawa in exchange for keeping their territories.
At the battle, Kobayakawa Hideaki betrayed the Western Army at the worst possible time for them; his 16,000 men attacked Ōtani Yoshitsugu (commanding 4,600 men), who at the time was dealing handily with Fukushima Masanori (6,000), Tōdō Takatora (2,490), Kyōgoku Takatsugu (3,000), and Oda Nagamasu (450) all that the same time. While Yoshitsugu actually managed to stop the Kobayaka's charge dead in their tracks and was still fighting well (I should point out that Yoshitsugu was unspeakably badass, as he did all this while dying horribly of leprosy and could neither see nor walk), seeing him so hopelessly outnumbered when he was one of the strategic lynchpins of the Western Army spurred the defection of another 20,000 men led by Wakisaka Yasuharu, Ogawa Suketada, Akaza Naoyasu, and Kutsuki Mototsuna, forcing Yoshitsugu's retreat and suicide.
So that's 36,000 troops that defected because of the Mōri being double-dealing pricks. But wait, there's more!
Kikkawa Hiroie had been the one to actually broker the deal with Ieyasu, and he positioned himself at the very front of the reserve forces stationed on Mt. Nangu to f*ck the Western Army as much as possible. Because he was at the very front, his refusal to move his 3,000 troops meant that the 15,000 Mōri troops commanded by his cousin Mōri Hidemoto and the 6,600 Chōsokabe troops commanded by Chōsokabe Morichika were both unable to move.
So that's about another 25,000 troops the Mōri denied the West, for a total of more than 60,000. Oh, and the head of the clan, Mōri Terumoto himself (who was incidentally the titular leader of the Western Army) was put in charge of the formidable Ōsaka Castle and with defending the life of Toyotomi Hideyori, who was at the time about 8 years old. He immediately surrendered the castle and the kid without even a pretense of a fight, and it was only because Ieyasu didn't want another fight on his hands from outraged Toyotomi retainers at that time that kept poor Hideyori from dying then and there.
Supposedly, Kikkawa Hiroie was so adamant about making the deal because he was "sure" Ieyasu would win. Honestly, the only reason it was a sure thing is because he and the other Mōri retainers did absolutely everything in their power to make it a sure thing by stabbing the West in the back repeatedly.
So what was the Mōri's payoff for this? Well, they'd been promised they'd get to keep the massive amount of territory that Hideyoshi had let them keep and even expanded upon in exchange for their support of his rule. Ieyasu apparently didn't really trust them with that after seeing how readily they f*cked Hideyoshi's successor in the ass.
So the Tokugawa Shōgunate immediately went back on their promise, massively downgrading the Mōri's domain from 1,200,000 koku to 369,000 koku, incidentally cutting them off completely from their ancestral home of Aki Province in the process.
In fact, Ieyasu didn't even intend to give them that much; he offered Hiroie the lands, intending to strip the Mōri themselves of power entirely, but the offer horrified Hiroie and he convinced Ieyasu to "just" strip them of 3/4 of their territory and force Terumoto to retire. Hiroie was still highly trusted by Terumoto and his successors, who gave him a sub-domain of 50,000 koku, but many other retainers (including Hidemoto) considered him a traitor to the clan and held a grudge against both him and Ieyasu.
As for Kobayakawa Hideaki, he was given the lands of the Ukita clan (who had sided with the West) for a total of 550,000 koku, but he died childless just two years later (and supposedly had descended into madness).
First of all, let's look at the numbers. All told, the initial breakdown of troops is that we have 120,000 men for the Western Army, and 75,000 for the Eastern Army, more or less. Meaning by numbers alone, the West has a pretty hefty advantage.
So while it's true that Mitsunari's background as a bureaucrat rather than a warrior (and his own rather abrasive personality) lost the West a lot of potential support, particularly from skilled commanders like Katō Kiyomasa and Fukushima Masanori, and Ieyasu had spent months assuring many of the supporters he did have that they'd be given lenience or even rewarded for going neutral or defecting, it was hardly enough to be the deciding factor on its own.
Unfortunately, two weeks before the events that culminated in Sekighara went down, the Mōri and their vassals/allies the Kikkawa and Kobayakawa, had already made a deal of neutrality with the Tokugawa in exchange for keeping their territories.
At the battle, Kobayakawa Hideaki betrayed the Western Army at the worst possible time for them; his 16,000 men attacked Ōtani Yoshitsugu (commanding 4,600 men), who at the time was dealing handily with Fukushima Masanori (6,000), Tōdō Takatora (2,490), Kyōgoku Takatsugu (3,000), and Oda Nagamasu (450) all that the same time. While Yoshitsugu actually managed to stop the Kobayaka's charge dead in their tracks and was still fighting well (I should point out that Yoshitsugu was unspeakably badass, as he did all this while dying horribly of leprosy and could neither see nor walk), seeing him so hopelessly outnumbered when he was one of the strategic lynchpins of the Western Army spurred the defection of another 20,000 men led by Wakisaka Yasuharu, Ogawa Suketada, Akaza Naoyasu, and Kutsuki Mototsuna, forcing Yoshitsugu's retreat and suicide.
So that's 36,000 troops that defected because of the Mōri being double-dealing pricks. But wait, there's more!
Kikkawa Hiroie had been the one to actually broker the deal with Ieyasu, and he positioned himself at the very front of the reserve forces stationed on Mt. Nangu to f*ck the Western Army as much as possible. Because he was at the very front, his refusal to move his 3,000 troops meant that the 15,000 Mōri troops commanded by his cousin Mōri Hidemoto and the 6,600 Chōsokabe troops commanded by Chōsokabe Morichika were both unable to move.
So that's about another 25,000 troops the Mōri denied the West, for a total of more than 60,000. Oh, and the head of the clan, Mōri Terumoto himself (who was incidentally the titular leader of the Western Army) was put in charge of the formidable Ōsaka Castle and with defending the life of Toyotomi Hideyori, who was at the time about 8 years old. He immediately surrendered the castle and the kid without even a pretense of a fight, and it was only because Ieyasu didn't want another fight on his hands from outraged Toyotomi retainers at that time that kept poor Hideyori from dying then and there.
Supposedly, Kikkawa Hiroie was so adamant about making the deal because he was "sure" Ieyasu would win. Honestly, the only reason it was a sure thing is because he and the other Mōri retainers did absolutely everything in their power to make it a sure thing by stabbing the West in the back repeatedly.
So what was the Mōri's payoff for this? Well, they'd been promised they'd get to keep the massive amount of territory that Hideyoshi had let them keep and even expanded upon in exchange for their support of his rule. Ieyasu apparently didn't really trust them with that after seeing how readily they f*cked Hideyoshi's successor in the ass.
So the Tokugawa Shōgunate immediately went back on their promise, massively downgrading the Mōri's domain from 1,200,000 koku to 369,000 koku, incidentally cutting them off completely from their ancestral home of Aki Province in the process.
In fact, Ieyasu didn't even intend to give them that much; he offered Hiroie the lands, intending to strip the Mōri themselves of power entirely, but the offer horrified Hiroie and he convinced Ieyasu to "just" strip them of 3/4 of their territory and force Terumoto to retire. Hiroie was still highly trusted by Terumoto and his successors, who gave him a sub-domain of 50,000 koku, but many other retainers (including Hidemoto) considered him a traitor to the clan and held a grudge against both him and Ieyasu.
As for Kobayakawa Hideaki, he was given the lands of the Ukita clan (who had sided with the West) for a total of 550,000 koku, but he died childless just two years later (and supposedly had descended into madness).
Owari, 1547 - Disaster at Kanōguchi
Leingod
Immaculate Blooming Lotus
16 Tenbun (1547)
For the past several years, Oda Nobuhide's campaigns east and north had met with limited gains and pyrrhic victories, and he was forced to guard himself on two fronts as well as watching carefully for any sign of betrayal from his untrustworthy kin in the factionalized Oda clan.
Oda Michikatsu, the nominal head of the Oda and the leader of the Kiyosu-Oda faction that controlled the Shiba, had adopted Nobuhide's own brother Nobutomo as his heir, perhaps as a gesture toward reconciliation. If this was the intent, it backfired, as the cold war for influence and control only worsened afterward due to bitter feelings between the brothers.
They were far from the only sons of Oda Nobusada involved in this feud. Both to provide a check to any possible invasion of his own lands by the Saitō clan of Mino and to hopefully put them firmly in his corner, Nobutomo had given his other brothers, Nobumitsu and Nobuyasu, the castles of Shobata and Inuyama, which guarded the two northern approaches into Owari.
But Nobumitsu and Nobuyasu were no more steadfast in their loyalties than either of their other brothers, and often shifted who they supported in accordance with whomever was deemed to hold the advantage at the time. Because he held the nominal title as Deputy Governor and controlled both Kiyosu and the Shiba, Nobutomo had the advantage in that regard, and Nobuhide was forced to constantly look for new ways to expand his power abroad in order to secure the necessary support needed to unify Owari.
With the Imagawa seemingly focusing a great deal of their attention on the Hōjō and the Asakura having largely broken off relations with the Saitō, Nobuhide judged that his best current opportunity was to pick up where he left off in Mino.
---X---
Nagoya Castle, Owari Province
Meeting with Hirate Masahide and Hayashi Hidesada, Nobuhide laid out his plans to further secure his own power.
"First of all, I intend to build a new castle, in Suemori," Nobuhide explained. "It's closer to the border with Mikawa and the main route to Mino; from there, I can respond more quickly to trouble from either sector."
"A wise plan, my lord, and with the recent windfall we've received from Atsuta and Tsushima, it should not unduly harm our coffers," Hidesada said. "But what of Nagoya? You speak as if you intend to make your home in Suemori; who shall watch over this castle?"
"We'll give to Kippōshi," Nobuhide said casually, stunning both men.
"L-Lord Kippōshi!?' Hidesada exclaimed. "My lord, please consider! Forgive me for any offense, but my lord's son is in no way fit to-!"
"Now hold on!" Masahide declared, his shock giving way to indignation. "While it's true Lord Kippōshi is quite young and may act erratic at times, but were he to have the proper counsel there is no reason he wouldn't prove equal to the task of overseeing Nagoya."
"I'm glad you think so," Nobuhide said with a grin. "I've decided; you'll be the one watching over him, Masahide. Be sure to keep him in line."
"My lord, while Sir Masahide has been an excellent caretaker and guardian to Lord Kippōshi, I cannot help but wonder if, at his age, such a full-time job would be good for his health?" Hidesada asked. "Perhaps if the two of us-"
"I've been doing the job on my own for quite a few years now, Sir Hidesada," Masahide said pointedly. Though the two of them had initially been given the joint duty of seeing to Kippōshi's upbringing, Hidesada had virtually abandoned the task of dealing with the unruly and rowdy boy to Masahide, dealing with him only as much as necessary, and giving most of his attention to the much more quiet and agreeable Kanjurō. "While your sudden concern for my age and health is appreciated, it is quite misplaced."
Hidesada had the good grace to look ashamed.
"So you accept?" Nobuhide asked, though it was hardly a question.
"Of course, my lord. I will give my all in assisting Lord Kippōshi as lord of Nagoya Castle," Masahide said with a bow.
"Good. Speaking of Kippōshi… what do you think of the name 'Nobunaga?'" Nobuhide asked.
---X---
Retrieving Toki Yorinari, who had been left to languish in a temple where he was well taken care of but kept away from any authority or power until he was once again needed as a figurehead, Oda Nobuhide, with the support of his brothers Nobumitsu and Nobuyasu on the promise of being given some of the lands taken from Mino, gathered an army totalling 5,000 men and marched into the domain of the Saitō.
At first, the campaign was successful, as the Oda army scored minor victories against the Mino forces, who had been weakened by factional strife that had been a recurring problem in Mino due to the circumstances of Saitō Dōsan's rise to power; several local lords even surrendered or defected to Nobuhide's side, swelling the size of his army and taking several minor fortresses and castles in southern Mino, with the intention of creating a blockade around Inabayama Castle that would starve Dōsan out.
And so, the Oda army fell into the trap of the Viper.
Though some had been genuine in their defections, several of the Mino lords had been instructed by Dōsan, and relayed all the information about the Oda army they were able to Inabayama. While the army camped at Kanōguchi, the false defectors launched a night attack that caused confusion in the main camp and allowed a force from Inabayama to sneak into the camp in the shadows of the night. The Oda army suffered grievous losses, including the death of Nobuhide's own brother, Nobuyasu. Nobumitsu, too, was seriously wounded, but the famous spearman managed to fight his way through his assailants and retreat with what was left of his forces back to Shobata Castle to recover.
Upon his return with his diminished army, Nobuhide realized that Nobutomo had conspired with the Saitō; at Inuyama, the Kiyosu-Oda had already been in position to take control of the castle in the name of protecting Nobuyasu's young son. A fight nearly broke out, which would have left Nobuhide sandwiched between the Saitō and his treacherous brother.
Luckily, Nobumitsu had also caught wind of the fact that his own brother had attempted to have him assassinated and his castle stolen from him, and marched out to Inuyama to confront him. In the face of Nobumitsu's wrath, Nobutomo made a truce with Nobuhide and allowed him to return to Nagoya, in return for calming Nobumitsu.
The disastrous Battle of Kanōguchi cost Nobuhide many men and a brother, and saw an increase in Nobutomo's power. Though Nobumitsu now bore a furious grudge against Nobutomo, he was at heart as much a pragmatist as either of his remaining brothers, and if Nobuhide were to grow much weaker, he would surely begin to waver in his loyalties, as several Oda vassals already were.
In order to keep his position from growing any more tenuous, Nobuhide needed a victory in Mikawa to offset the debacle in Mino...
For the past several years, Oda Nobuhide's campaigns east and north had met with limited gains and pyrrhic victories, and he was forced to guard himself on two fronts as well as watching carefully for any sign of betrayal from his untrustworthy kin in the factionalized Oda clan.
Oda Michikatsu, the nominal head of the Oda and the leader of the Kiyosu-Oda faction that controlled the Shiba, had adopted Nobuhide's own brother Nobutomo as his heir, perhaps as a gesture toward reconciliation. If this was the intent, it backfired, as the cold war for influence and control only worsened afterward due to bitter feelings between the brothers.
They were far from the only sons of Oda Nobusada involved in this feud. Both to provide a check to any possible invasion of his own lands by the Saitō clan of Mino and to hopefully put them firmly in his corner, Nobutomo had given his other brothers, Nobumitsu and Nobuyasu, the castles of Shobata and Inuyama, which guarded the two northern approaches into Owari.
But Nobumitsu and Nobuyasu were no more steadfast in their loyalties than either of their other brothers, and often shifted who they supported in accordance with whomever was deemed to hold the advantage at the time. Because he held the nominal title as Deputy Governor and controlled both Kiyosu and the Shiba, Nobutomo had the advantage in that regard, and Nobuhide was forced to constantly look for new ways to expand his power abroad in order to secure the necessary support needed to unify Owari.
With the Imagawa seemingly focusing a great deal of their attention on the Hōjō and the Asakura having largely broken off relations with the Saitō, Nobuhide judged that his best current opportunity was to pick up where he left off in Mino.
---X---
Nagoya Castle, Owari Province
Meeting with Hirate Masahide and Hayashi Hidesada, Nobuhide laid out his plans to further secure his own power.
"First of all, I intend to build a new castle, in Suemori," Nobuhide explained. "It's closer to the border with Mikawa and the main route to Mino; from there, I can respond more quickly to trouble from either sector."
"A wise plan, my lord, and with the recent windfall we've received from Atsuta and Tsushima, it should not unduly harm our coffers," Hidesada said. "But what of Nagoya? You speak as if you intend to make your home in Suemori; who shall watch over this castle?"
"We'll give to Kippōshi," Nobuhide said casually, stunning both men.
"L-Lord Kippōshi!?' Hidesada exclaimed. "My lord, please consider! Forgive me for any offense, but my lord's son is in no way fit to-!"
"Now hold on!" Masahide declared, his shock giving way to indignation. "While it's true Lord Kippōshi is quite young and may act erratic at times, but were he to have the proper counsel there is no reason he wouldn't prove equal to the task of overseeing Nagoya."
"I'm glad you think so," Nobuhide said with a grin. "I've decided; you'll be the one watching over him, Masahide. Be sure to keep him in line."
"My lord, while Sir Masahide has been an excellent caretaker and guardian to Lord Kippōshi, I cannot help but wonder if, at his age, such a full-time job would be good for his health?" Hidesada asked. "Perhaps if the two of us-"
"I've been doing the job on my own for quite a few years now, Sir Hidesada," Masahide said pointedly. Though the two of them had initially been given the joint duty of seeing to Kippōshi's upbringing, Hidesada had virtually abandoned the task of dealing with the unruly and rowdy boy to Masahide, dealing with him only as much as necessary, and giving most of his attention to the much more quiet and agreeable Kanjurō. "While your sudden concern for my age and health is appreciated, it is quite misplaced."
Hidesada had the good grace to look ashamed.
"So you accept?" Nobuhide asked, though it was hardly a question.
"Of course, my lord. I will give my all in assisting Lord Kippōshi as lord of Nagoya Castle," Masahide said with a bow.
"Good. Speaking of Kippōshi… what do you think of the name 'Nobunaga?'" Nobuhide asked.
---X---
Retrieving Toki Yorinari, who had been left to languish in a temple where he was well taken care of but kept away from any authority or power until he was once again needed as a figurehead, Oda Nobuhide, with the support of his brothers Nobumitsu and Nobuyasu on the promise of being given some of the lands taken from Mino, gathered an army totalling 5,000 men and marched into the domain of the Saitō.
At first, the campaign was successful, as the Oda army scored minor victories against the Mino forces, who had been weakened by factional strife that had been a recurring problem in Mino due to the circumstances of Saitō Dōsan's rise to power; several local lords even surrendered or defected to Nobuhide's side, swelling the size of his army and taking several minor fortresses and castles in southern Mino, with the intention of creating a blockade around Inabayama Castle that would starve Dōsan out.
And so, the Oda army fell into the trap of the Viper.
Though some had been genuine in their defections, several of the Mino lords had been instructed by Dōsan, and relayed all the information about the Oda army they were able to Inabayama. While the army camped at Kanōguchi, the false defectors launched a night attack that caused confusion in the main camp and allowed a force from Inabayama to sneak into the camp in the shadows of the night. The Oda army suffered grievous losses, including the death of Nobuhide's own brother, Nobuyasu. Nobumitsu, too, was seriously wounded, but the famous spearman managed to fight his way through his assailants and retreat with what was left of his forces back to Shobata Castle to recover.
Upon his return with his diminished army, Nobuhide realized that Nobutomo had conspired with the Saitō; at Inuyama, the Kiyosu-Oda had already been in position to take control of the castle in the name of protecting Nobuyasu's young son. A fight nearly broke out, which would have left Nobuhide sandwiched between the Saitō and his treacherous brother.
Luckily, Nobumitsu had also caught wind of the fact that his own brother had attempted to have him assassinated and his castle stolen from him, and marched out to Inuyama to confront him. In the face of Nobumitsu's wrath, Nobutomo made a truce with Nobuhide and allowed him to return to Nagoya, in return for calming Nobumitsu.
The disastrous Battle of Kanōguchi cost Nobuhide many men and a brother, and saw an increase in Nobutomo's power. Though Nobumitsu now bore a furious grudge against Nobutomo, he was at heart as much a pragmatist as either of his remaining brothers, and if Nobuhide were to grow much weaker, he would surely begin to waver in his loyalties, as several Oda vassals already were.
In order to keep his position from growing any more tenuous, Nobuhide needed a victory in Mikawa to offset the debacle in Mino...
- Location
- US
[x] Humbly accept
So the characterization so far of the MC is that he's a the typical noble and that he dislikes Kipposhi's mannerism and has doubts about his ability to rule in the future. I see no reason to refuse the request of another lord to keep Kipposhi in check, and if Kipposhi proves more than he seems (Which he really hasn't at the moment), nothing stops us from "fancying" the contents of the letter in Kipposhi's benefit.
So the characterization so far of the MC is that he's a the typical noble and that he dislikes Kipposhi's mannerism and has doubts about his ability to rule in the future. I see no reason to refuse the request of another lord to keep Kipposhi in check, and if Kipposhi proves more than he seems (Which he really hasn't at the moment), nothing stops us from "fancying" the contents of the letter in Kipposhi's benefit.