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Ms. Marvel

Egleris said:
Mentioning that I haven't read the comics at all, so this is my first exposure to the character, aside from agreeing with most of what has been said in this thread by other people (exceptionally good show, very relatable character with a body type rarely found in a Hollywood female lead, interesting look into interesting cultural situations and so on), I don't feel like her powers are "generic" at all?

While it's true that, while she sometimes uses them for "extended limbs" things, mostly she creates crystal shields and platforms, I happen to think that that's actually fairly original as far as dynamic goes. Especially when almost all of the MCU heroes uses one of either "long range attacks" (about evenly split between beams and projectiles) and "punching", with some characters (like Captain America) mixing up both a bit, Kamala's powers feel quite unlike any other MCU character I can recall. It's not as original as the stuff you see magicians like Doctor Strange do, especially in his latest movie, but outside of that, it felt like a refreshingly original take to me, and made the action scenes more interesting than usual for a Marvel show.

So, while I have no knowledge of what the baseline comic fighting style was like, the platform-and-projection based way the power adds dynamism to the action seems like it wasn't a bad decision; I'm not sure that stretching would be better, since it seems like it'd just devolve into "punching, but which is also long range attacks" very easily, without the mobility focus her powers as they are in the series offer.

Just my consideration as a non-comic reading person - I'm sure people who actually read the comics will be able to explain to me why going with this approach wasn't a good idea, all I'm saying is that I've trouble figuring out on my own how it could be better.
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The big fist kick extension thing is a direct reference to her fighting style in the comics. In the comics her power functions somewhat like Mr Fantastic crossed with giant/ant man in that she can stretch or shrink her whole self or individual parts of her body. So she tends to make her fists or feet huge and smash stuff from 25 feet away with an elongated limb. Very similar visually to the big glowy hand effect we have seen fairly often in the show.

As to calling her power generic, I'm actually really impressed how well the creative team has used what are fairly generic hard light projection powers in the show in a fun and entertaining way. It wasn't a criticism so much as a note that there isn't anything that makes the power itself unusual from others of the general type. Like being magnetic or something.
 
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king208 said:
The big fist kick extension thing is a direct reference to her fighting style in the comics. In the comics her power functions somewhat like Mr Fantastic crossed with giant/ant man in that she can stretch or shrink her whole self or individual parts of her body. So she tends to make her fists or feet huge and smash stuff from 25 feet away with an elongated limb. Very similar visually to the big glowy hand effect we have seen fairly often in the show.

As to calling her power generic, I'm actually really impressed how well the creative team has used what are fairly generic hard light projection powers in the show in a fun and entertaining way. It wasn't a criticism so much as a note that there isn't anything that makes the power itself unusual from others of the general type. Like being magnetic or something.
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Uuuh, you missed the part where she can full body shape shift into other people... Even if she doesn't use it much because it messes with her regen (that you also forgot to mention)
 
Dogboy said:
Uuuh, you missed the part where she can full body shape shift into other people... Even if she doesn't use it much because it messes with her regen (that you also forgot to mention)
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I don't recall her ever using her shapeshifting to look like other people after those first few issues where she was turning herself into Carol Danvers--at least not in her own book, can't say what she might have done in Young Avengers or other titles. And regeneration hasn't come up in the show, since she hasn't been seriously injured yet, but she doesn't really do the Wolverine thing of constantly shrugging off fatal wounds. The shapeshifting to grow/shrink/stretcj is really the main thing she uses.
 
Dogboy said:
Uuuh, you missed the part where she can full body shape shift into other people... Even if she doesn't use it much because it messes with her regen (that you also forgot to mention)
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I don't actually remember her ever doing that again after the first issue. Which I thought Medusa explained away as her power not being stabilized yet or something. Of course it's been at least half a decade since I've read any of the original series so I might be forgetting something.

Edit: I didn't mention the electric weakness or regen because they weren't relevant to what I was talking about, but yes those abilities are super important parts of her comic powerset for those unfamiliar with her in the comics. Though now that we're talking about them in the show she arguably doesn't need the regen because she can make energy shields, instead of just tanking everything with her face :V . Meanwhile the electricity weakness is only there to make her OP regen less OP, and her shields stay non-OP because all her constructs are fairly fragile... so far.

She's supposed to be rolling with Carol and Monica in Captain Marvel 2 though, so she may get a significant power up by the end of Ms Marvel.
 
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Honestly it sounds like they gave her sue storms powers without the invisibility with a side of green lantern.

Edit- comics are wierd cause according to this wiki I found, her real power is *time travel*
 
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Dogboy said:
Honestly it sounds like they gave her sue storms powers without the invisibility with a side of green lantern.

Edit- comics are wierd cause according to this wiki I found, her real power is *time travel*
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When compared to GL from the Justice League cartoon she has no flight and seems unable to move her constructs except when they are extending out one of her own movements. But not entirely off base with the comparison.
 
While I'm still very much enjoying the show, I think I prefer the 'Muslim teen girl' part of 'Muslim teen girl superhero' more than I do the 'superhero' part, TBH. After years of Marvel films, the teen drama is more interesting than the fights and they're handling it well. At the very least I wish they'd keep it to some teenage girl dealing with streetlevel crime.
 
...was the series drastically shortened during filming? I feel like we just did a speedrun of the ending...
 
I believe the series is supposed to have six episodes, and only four have been released so far, so there should be at least two more - although the fifth is to be released today, so it's possible that in some places that one's already out. Even in that case there would still be one season finale to go. Unless somebody got to watch it all in advance, I guess.
 
The sheer whiplash going from the horrors of Partition, race and religious riots, a child being lost, a mother being killed to some really out there Army of Darkness skeleton animation is really fucking jarring. The first half takes its time but the the third end is speedrunning to the end. It's got this strong historical fiction stuff and immigrant anxiety and it's got the inter-dimensional stuff.

Ms Marvel is in this odd place where the whole Pakistani teenage Muslim girl is way stronger than actual superhero stuff. I am glad that the heavy stuff, the religious and cultural side is explored, but it feels like it needs one more episode between episode 5 and 6. I'd personally rank this better than Moon Knight, if it lands the ending.

I can't believe I'm saying this but Hawkeye is actually paced way better than either MK or Ms Marvel.
 
Hawkeye had the advantage that the main character and most of the supporting cast already were known to the audience, which made it easier to focus on only the newcomers and the actual plot. Ms. Marvel had to do a ton more setup work, and I think it did quite well at it.

I feel like Ms. Marvel is better overall than any of the other MCU shows so far, but I also agree that it would have benefited from having a 9 episodes run like Wandavision, instead of the 6 episodes run it got. Spread the stuff in episodes 4 and 5 across three-four episodes, and it'd still leave enough space for a proper finale while allowing a lot of the main events in the story to carry much more of an emotional punch. It's not that they have none, but giving them the time to build up to them a little bit would certainly have helped. I'm not sure why Wandavision got so much more hours, when Ms. Marvel and Mirror Knight both were more interesting and would have needed the extra episodes more. Not that Wandavision was bad or anything, it just seems strange it'd get so much more screen time.

Of course, the ending is going to be quite important in the final evaluation - Falcon and the Winter Soldier started stronger than most, but the last episode drop in quality really made it faceplant very hard. I guess we'll just need to wait and see.
 
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Hykal94 said:
The sheer whiplash going from the horrors of Partition, race and religious riots, a child being lost, a mother being killed to some really out there Army of Darkness skeleton animation is really fucking jarring. The first half takes its time but the the third end is speedrunning to the end. It's got this strong historical fiction stuff and immigrant anxiety and it's got the inter-dimensional stuff.

Ms Marvel is in this odd place where the whole Pakistani teenage Muslim girl is way stronger than actual superhero stuff. I am glad that the heavy stuff, the religious and cultural side is explored, but it feels like it needs one more episode between episode 5 and 6. I'd personally rank this better than Moon Knight, if it lands the ending.

I can't believe I'm saying this but Hawkeye is actually paced way better than either MK or Ms Marvel.
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Honestly.... the non superhero parts of all these superhero shows have been better then the superhero parts. I think disney is stuck in a rut falling back onto formula whenever it's time for superhero plots and punch ups, and its only around that they let themselves be creative.
 
I thought the superhero side of things was developing fine, if slowly, for the first three episodes, but then became very rushed in the fourth and fifth, to the point that episode five feels like what you'd get if told a showrunner that they were about to be cancelled and only had one episode left to wrap things up. I really do wonder what might have happened behind the scenes with rewrites, reshoots and reedits.
 
stratigo said:
Honestly.... the non superhero parts of all these superhero shows have been better then the superhero parts. I think disney is stuck in a rut falling back onto formula whenever it's time for superhero plots and punch ups, and its only around that they let themselves be creative.
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I kind of feel like they should lean into that a bit. A lot of these shows feel a little rushed, and that can probably be resolved by having more runtime devoted to the relatively cheaper to produce non-superhero parts of the story lines.
 
Final episode aired a few days back, and I got around to watching it tonight. Was a fun sendoff wrapping up Kamala's arc, poking fun at discrimination and how communities can come together to help an individual, and of course cool fight scenes. Although I think the gov agency misunderstood what non lethal meant when their sonic weapons are blowing chunks in buildings...

I was quite surprised to see Mutants getting hinted at here, with a DNA mutation having caused Kamala's powers. Even had the X-Men theme. Guess it makes sense with the cameo in the latest Dr. Strange film, though.

Also seems like Kamala swapped locations with Captain Marvel in the post credits scene? Or transformed, but that seems a bit less likely with the actor being visibly confused re: where she was...
 
Honestly the end dealing with the not!FBI is a lot better than the Cladestines. Not only does it contribute to the themes of Kamala's hero worship and identity, it also brought the other cast members back.

If you didn't know, back in the Early Oughts, the FBI sent a fake Muslim informant to a New York mosque to bait out extremists, only for mosque authorities to report the informant to the FBI. As you can guess, it didn't endear the Muslim minority to the government. There's very much an us vs them because American law enforcement directly targets religious and racial minorities.

Every time Kamala's family is in the scene, I'm excited. Papa Khan is a delight, as is her mother. Bruno and Nakia, despite only having a few scenes overall, feels just as strong as Peter's Zendaya and Ned.

If all six episodes were just about that, instead of time travel and djinn, it would be a lot stronger overall and I'd rate it pretty high. I still appreciate the whole Partition thing they did, but it could have been a season 2 thing.

However, as it is, I have to rank it behind Moon Knight. Not that far behind, but just behind them.
 
This show was quite cool and also historically informative.
 
Mizu said:
I was quite surprised to see Mutants getting hinted at here, with a DNA mutation having caused Kamala's powers. Even had the X-Men theme. Guess it makes sense with the cameo in the latest Dr. Strange film, though.

Also seems like Kamala swapped locations with Captain Marvel in the post credits scene? Or transformed, but that seems a bit less likely with the actor being visibly confused re: where she was...
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Definitely swapped locations, given Carol's "oh hell no" reaction to landing in what must have seemed to her to have been a stalker shrine.
 
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