More Things in Heaven and Earth: gods, syncretism and comparative mythology in fiction

Then we've gotten to something I really hate about urban fantasy.

That the Christian God is the one above all other religions.

Easy solution: The omni-whatever of the Abrahamic gods is just hype. After all, he used to be a part of a polytheistic religion, and he went out of his way to state "worship no other gods beside me", as if they actually exist. And there are parts in the Old-Testament where he demonstrates non-omnipotence and non-omniscience (albeit I understand that later theology interpreted those parts as him sandbagging.)

That's because, objectively speaking, capital G God is the one above the lower-case g gods; he differs from then in kind, not in power or number. If you don't want it to be the specifically Christian conception of God, then perhaps another religion's concept of God would work just as well (Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Bantu Theology). Alternatively, God could belong to no religion in particular in your story.
Or not have a capital-G god at all. He is not even remotely necessary. Any "all myths are true" approach is already polytheistic, making in monotheistic+irrevelant upstarts is pretty lame.
 
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To address similarities between gods in a 'return of the gods'-type story I've been thinking up, I was planning to take the 'fusions' found in Hindu myth (e.g. Shiva and Parvati as Ardhanari, Shiva and Vishnu as Harihara) and incorporate them into other pantheons and cross-pantheon, along with the idea of different gods being in fact facets of the same gods, but also (going back far enough) all gods being facets of a Monad-style 'one god' (also kinda like Hinduism, I think), along with the Adam Kadmon-esque idea of each human being a 'cell' in a metaphysical, singlar omni-human.

Y'know, for a novel.

The focus on Hindu ideas could be due to the fact that I wanted the Hindu pantheon, along with China's Celestial Bureaucracy, to be the major players in this story as reflective of their real-life populations (even though China tends to be a lot less religious), instead of the oft-focused on Greek and Norse pantheons. Second Coming of Jesus would still get quite some attention though.

Also, since we're getting to Jungian and Campbellian ideas, I thought maybe I could post this video, since later on it goes into how ideas like 'archetypes' and 'the monomyth' are kinda outdated ideas in anthropology (though hey, when it's your story, you decide what you want to write):
 
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Or not have a capital-G god at all. He is not even remotely necessary. Any "all myths are true" approach is already polytheistic, making in monotheistic+irrevelant upstarts is pretty lame.
I was just making a suggestion. I understand that some people just don't like monotheism.

If divine intervention is not the cause of the gods no longer being worshipped, perhaps something akin to Alaya/The Counter Force is responsible. Some human-protecting entity decided the gods were a threat and empowered humans to drive them out to another realm. But now, they have returned.
 
I was just making a suggestion. I understand that some people just don't like monotheism.

If divine intervention is not the cause of the gods no longer being worshipped, perhaps something akin to Alaya/The Counter Force is responsible. Some human-protecting entity decided the gods were a threat and empowered humans to drive them out to another realm. But now, they have returned.
Alternatively, you could have a natural ebb and flow to how much power the Divine has in reality. Ages where mortal civilization is ascendant and ages where gods, monsters and heroes run roughshod over the world would then alternate naturally. (Should fit well into cyclical mythologies.)



Even in a belief -> power model this should be possible, as the amount of divinity-bang you get for worship-bang need not remain constant.

More on belief->power model: Concerns have been raised that the eventual end state of such a system would be a single pantheon would hog all the worship and become forever ascendant. A possible patch on that is that the power of belief would have diminishing returns. New divinities, especially minor ones would then take more effort to eradicate than it is worth. The more sensible tactic would be to try to fold these new divinities into your own pantheon. So Jupiter, instead of smiting these upstarts would instead make these city-state patrons into a part of his personal court on Mt. Olympus. Syncretism in action.

EDIT: I do seem to recall that several of the Olympic divinities used to be strongly associated with specific city states, hence their eclectic portfolios. I could be wrong.
 
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But how did those even start? I mean, the moment they start gaining traction, and the gods find themselves weakening, they will start smiting.

Hard to disbelieve in a god that's in front of you, killing you.
Except that in such a setting there's probably strong limits on what gods can do to mortals, or else they'd have long since exterminated each other's worshipers in that kind of fighting and destroyed themselves. If killing the worshipers of other gods works and is allowed, then pretty soon inter-god rivalry will result in a race to see who can be the god with the last surviving worshiper and you end up with the "monotheism of the sole survivor", when there's only one god left.

Also, belief isn't worship. If belief has power then everyone being terrified of a god and wanting them to go away might erase the god.
 
When it comes to having real-world-like mythology fit with actual deities, I really love how the Elder Scrolls series' backstory does it. In particular there's the concept of mantling, by which one being can assume aspects of another being or reveal themselves as having been an aspect of another being. It's intentionally ambiguous and can even be retroactive (the series doesn't shy away from the concept of simultaneous mutually exclusive histories having happened), and can even be recursive.
 
When it comes to having real-world-like mythology fit with actual deities, I really love how the Elder Scrolls series' backstory does it. In particular there's the concept of mantling, by which one being can assume aspects of another being or reveal themselves as having been an aspect of another being. It's intentionally ambiguous and can even be retroactive (the series doesn't shy away from the concept of simultaneous mutually exclusive histories having happened), and can even be recursive.
Perhaps you could explain this in more detail?
 
There is the idea of one deity being split into several others
That's something frequent in Hinduism and in Egyptian mythology, but I'm not sure how well it works for others.
Alternatively, you could have multiple deities take up the same roles and similar names in succession to one another, i.e. the name "Odin" being passed down over many generations.
Heeeh, not sure about that one. Generally, the appeal of multiple pantheons is seeing the gods you know interacting with each others. It's less interesting if the Odin you meet is not really the original Odin, but, say, his son Vidarr taking up his role after Ragnarök.
Yeah, like, what? You think Zeus would truly allow people to forget him? There'll be annual celebrations, where he goes across the world in a trail of hurricanes and blazing divine power, reminding all of his power. The celebration will be public, very public, and everyone in greece or rome would know of it. He would go to every town and.....
A bit unrelated to the main subject, but since you mentionned Zeus, in the case of Classical/Graeco-Roman religion, a widespread school of thought was that human wickedness had resulted in the disappearance of the gods, leaving mankind behind to let it destroy itself. It first starts, and is arguably based, in Hesiod's poem Works and Days, where a prediction is made of the divine departure as Hesiod explains the five Ages of Man: the Golden; the Silver; the Bronze; the Age of Heroes (which was brought to an end by the Trojan War/return of the Heraclids); and the Iron Age, in which Hesiod lived and which continued in increasingly worsening conditions. Works and Days forecasted that, later on in the Iron Age, the goddesses Aidos and Nemesis, of shame/modesty and vengeance respectively, were going to shroud "their sweet forms in pale mantles" and escape from the world and its corruption to go up Mt. Olympus, forsaking "humankind to join the company of the deathless gods, and leaving nothing but bitter sorrows for mortal men. And there will be no help against evil."

In the Description of Greece 8.2.4-7, Greek geographer Pausanias offers his opinion on the issue by commenting first on the story of Lycaon, one of the first werewolf supposed to have been turned into a wolf by his own grandfather Zeus, after the god had visited his house for a meal and he gave him his own son. He alludes that the gods no longer act directly in the physical world, but give punishment in the afterlife:
Description of Greece said:
For the men of those days, because of their righteousness and piety, were guests of the gods, eating at the same board; the good were openly honored by the gods, and sinners were openly visited with their wrath. As a matter of fact, in those days men were changed to gods, who down to the present day have honours paid to them—Aristaios [Aristaeus], Britomartis of Crete, Herakles [Heracles] the son of Alkmene, Amphiaraos the son of Oikles, and besides these Polydeukes [Polydeuces] and Kastor [Castor].

So one might believe that Lykaon was turned into a beast, and Niobe, the daughter of Tantalos, into a stone. But at the present time, when sin has grown to such a height and has been spreading over every land and every city, no longer do men turn into gods, except in the flattering words addressed to despots, and the wrath of the gods is reserved until the sinners have departed to the next world.
The Roman poet Ovid takes this up in his poem the Metamorphoses, wherein he says that it was during the Iron Age, perhaps at its onset, that Pudor, Veritas and Fides (Modesty, Truth and Loyalty, whom the Greeks would have called Aidos, Aletheia and Pistis respectively) were the first virtues or powers to flee from the world. The situation got gradually but dramatically worse before finally Pietas (Piety) was vanquished and Astraea (a Titan goddess also referred to as Dike, or "Justice") became "last of all the immortals to depart" and "herself abandoned the blood-drenched earth."
 
Hard to disbelieve in a god that's in front of you, killing you.
For my fantasy agnostic (Buddhism) equivalent, the starting credo is "Man makes gods!". Though that is not my personal belief in real life.

For a syncretism of multi-pantheons with some entities having almost identical existences, I use the 'Reality has Layers' concept for the spiritual realms, and each legend is a filter upon an older originating legend that when peeled back becomes more intense.

Each permutation of a mythological figure sincerely believes they are the one who influenced the myths passed down about them, and that they are the genuine original article, all others being errors. They interact with their followers and their pantheon. If multiple varients of the same myth occurs among the same followers, they make branches among branches.

Sort of like 'Chronicles of Amber', except not seperate physical realities.

For monotheism in the same settings, the 'Creator' (by some legends) is a primordial entity on a cosmic scale that polytheistic deities cannot actually compare and still have anthropomorphifying myths about them.

So similar to the fantasy agnostics, it is not that 'the gods' do not exist, it is that they aren't revered, and are likely in opposition to the faith. As to the precise nature of their role, that depends on the varient of monotheists asked, there is actually plenty of room for difference in philosophy among followers, even if they agree on the nature of the God they follow.

I usually leave plenty of evidence in my world building that supports each of those conclusions.
 
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