What do you think


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TOS is very lenient towards Prime Directive violations in general.

I also recall an episode of Discovery where there was some sort of radiation danger to the planet, and the Discovery tried its best (successfully) to prevent that from happening, and the Prime Directive aspect is that they have to do it without the inhabitants of the planet noticing.
 
I think a more precise version of @LilyWitch 's argument is not that its bad when harmful social structures are overturned but it would be bad for the Federation, as an external power coming down from the heavens, to itself overturn them as in doing so it would have to be by the imposition of Federation social structures and definitionally imperialism. Which like at its core a basically correct argument and something I can largely agree with.

Personally I'm fine with enough wiggle room for like a stealthed Federation outpost to be just secretly beaming the locks out of the shackles of a slave empire every once in a while, but the core components of the argument and of the Prime Directive of having to justify all direct Starfleet interference as immediately necessary, proportionate to the goal, and always as unobstructive as possible is, I think, fundamentally in the right direction. Something that can be built upon to keep aiming towards better outcomes, but has its heart in the right place.

I think we're kind've conflating two points:
  • Does the Federation have some kind of moral responsibility to use its technological advantage to aid pre-warp civilizations and/or solve problems they can't?
  • Does the Federation have a moral responsibility to contact/uplift/whatever pre-warp civilizations?
Because you can handily do the first without the other - there are plenty of instances where we've seen the crew solve a seemingly insurmountable problem facing a pre-warp planet without blowing the lid off "Aliens exist".

Like, if your starship stumbles across a pre-warp civilization that's suffering from a plague (or whatever), it's a lot easier and involves less headaches for everyone involved if you just quietly insert a vaccine into the local water supply (or use shuttles or drones or something to release it via aerosol in the atmosphere, or just beam it into everyone while they sleep lol) than to transport the bridge crew down into the middle of the capital city, announce the existence of alien life on a scale unheard of, and then try and organize a vaccination clinic with a nice orderly queue out the door.

This loops back to what I said earlier about the PD being in my mind closer to Primum non nocere - if you can solve the problem without breaking kayfabe, you do it. An "emergency first contact" (or whatever you want to call it) should be your option of absolute last resort, after you've exhausted every other alternative.
 
To me the basic moral test for governing is the Veil of Ignorance. In Star Trek depending on the population metrics, for any given person, their odds of being born in some pre-warp shitty feudal theocracy with a sky high child mortality rate might be legitimately higher than being born in the Federation. Giving those people no relief, no recourse, no awareness that there even might be such things, seems a cruel and undesirable society to live in, one that might actually be worse than our own when averaged out.

I'm pretty sure that 99% of thread participants, if told the Federation could beam them up along with their friends and family, or at least get a tricorder and replicator to maintain their existing life with greater comfort, would so in a heartbeat. Both of which while entirely voluntary still fall well outside of the "only knock asteroids away" or "provide vaccinations" level of intervention, and would definitely be massively disrupting to modern society. If you want to say "the Federation cannot impose its society on pre-warp civilizations, because people have a right to choose what society they live in" you can't ban intervention altogether as doing so would deny people that very choice.
 
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I'm pretty sure that 99% of thread participants, if told the Federation could beam them up along with their friends and family, or at least get a tricorder and replicator to maintain their existing life with greater comfort, would so in a heartbeat.

Only because if the Federation is offering this to me, that would imply they are offering this to everyone, and I will be requesting asylum to get off this planet before the ambitious and megalomaniacal types start using their new replicators.
 
The federation is a known quantity designed by the minds and efforts of socially progressive writers living in more or less the same society we do. It is based on whiggish and progressive premises of a secular utopia of balanced duty and leisure in which for some reason everyone in the far future really likes Sherlock Holmes.

Of course most of us would like to live there. It was designed mostly with our sensibilities in mind. But not everyone shares these, and for a pre-warp civilization the Federation is a total unknown.
 
I mean I don't believe this was every really the angle but

"The Prime Directive is a mutual treaty obligation between the United Federation and the Klingon/Romulan Empire"

Like that makes a certain moral sense to me.
 
I mean I don't believe this was every really the angle but

"The Prime Directive is a mutual treaty obligation between the United Federation and the Klingon/Romulan Empire"

Like that makes a certain moral sense to me.

That would make sense. The Federation does seem to love weirdly restrictive treaties that it doesn't properly ignore.

It sounds like a concession the Federation would make in a treaty with nearby fascists, who would think getting the Federation not to imperialize every minor planet counts as a huge win and a loss to the Federation, but then are shocked when the Federation actually follows the treaty and isn't really effected by the loss.
 
To indulge in some Watsonian spitballing, the reason why the PD is the PD and is more than just a general order of Starfleet Command and is wrapped up in references to the oath of a Starfleet officer is that it was laid down not even in the various legislatures and councils of state of the Federation but in the very charter establishing Starfleet, as part of it being a joint peacekeeping and exploration corps between the once mutually hostile Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans, and Humans, to maintain shared access to space for all members and end the independent pursuits of more colonies and the private struggles over disputed claims.
 
Because the isolated areas are Bantustans with trade only at the Federation's whims, and because that's how nations work? Undeveloped space doesn't stay undeveloped forever.
What is Japan? It was an isolated state while Europe was advancing technologically for 100 or so years. Yet they caught up. Can't a nation that get's warp 1 meet the Feds with Warp 7 or 9 or whatever, and catch up with them?

They will forever be behind because they have been left behind on purpose and therefore can never catch up. You might as well ask why I think that an uncontacted tribe of hunter-gatherers will never overtake the US; the opportunity for them to do so has long since passed them by, and none of their efforts or merits can possibly change that. In the same way some world that's been languishing in its Prime Directive mandated zoo for centuries or millennia is going to emerge into a galaxy that has long since been settled and developed, and will at best never get beyond being a speck within a much larger polity like the Federation. At worst, they end up conquered or destroyed because they've been deliberately left helpless and ignorant until it's too late.

And the Federation will grow because that's what it's been doing since the start, as is to be expected of it.
There is a lot wrong here. First off a primitive tribe COULD overtake the US. What if the Klingons bombed the modern US to the stone age? Why do you assume that states can only progress and can't be destroyed and lose all they have? Second there is the stagnation. Once a nation reaches a tech plateau they can't go any farther. Now true in Star Trek it's pretty far even the future Federation hasn't gone there, but we know there is a limit to advancement the Q reached it. Once you become a God, the others can catch up because then you stop and even if you got there first, as long as you aren't pushing everyone down others will eventually come to your level. Also again the Japan example Warp 1 society finally meets Federation, and has tech exchange and trade deals and they rapidly advance in decades what it took centuries or millennia for the Federation itself.


I think we're kind've conflating two points:
  • Does the Federation have some kind of moral responsibility to use its technological advantage to aid pre-warp civilizations and/or solve problems they can't?
  • Does the Federation have a moral responsibility to contact/uplift/whatever pre-warp civilizations?
Because you can handily do the first without the other - there are plenty of instances where we've seen the crew solve a seemingly insurmountable problem facing a pre-warp planet without blowing the lid off "Aliens exist".

Like, if your starship stumbles across a pre-warp civilization that's suffering from a plague (or whatever), it's a lot easier and involves less headaches for everyone involved if you just quietly insert a vaccine into the local water supply (or use shuttles or drones or something to release it via aerosol in the atmosphere, or just beam it into everyone while they sleep lol) than to transport the bridge crew down into the middle of the capital city, announce the existence of alien life on a scale unheard of, and then try and organize a vaccination clinic with a nice orderly queue out the door.

This loops back to what I said earlier about the PD being in my mind closer to Primum non nocere - if you can solve the problem without breaking kayfabe, you do it. An "emergency first contact" (or whatever you want to call it) should be your option of absolute last resort, after you've exhausted every other alternative.
So violate bodily autonomy and commit gross medical malpractice? Yeah they could do that, just like they could genocide or enslave other races.

To me the basic moral test for governing is the Veil of Ignorance. In Star Trek depending on the population metrics, for any given person, their odds of being born in some pre-warp shitty feudal theocracy with a sky high child mortality rate might be legitimately higher than being born in the Federation. Giving those people no relief, no recourse, no awareness that there even might be such things, seems a cruel and undesirable society to live in, one that might actually be worse than our own when averaged out.

I'm pretty sure that 99% of thread participants, if told the Federation could beam them up along with their friends and family, or at least get a tricorder and replicator to maintain their existing life with greater comfort, would so in a heartbeat. Both of which while entirely voluntary still fall well outside of the "only knock asteroids away" or "provide vaccinations" level of intervention, and would definitely be massively disrupting to modern society. If you want to say "the Federation cannot impose its society on pre-warp civilizations, because people have a right to choose what society they live in" you can't ban intervention altogether as doing so would deny people that very choice.
Many people would pick using the veil of ignorance to have a world where larger powers don't invade and occupy weaker ones, where they are forced to abandon their customs and beliefs. Also you seem to misunderstand what the veil of ignorance is. It doesn't mean you look at your current circumstances and say "Well this is favorable towards my population so I like it. You are supposed to be blind to EVERYTHING race, sex, religion, politics, philosophy, etc. Because while you might be willing to help the UFP conquer your world and impose your ideology. You probably wouldn't be happy if the Klingons come to enslave you for being a weakling, or Cardassia decides you need to go to a camp for being a "degenerate" and a "threat to society" or some other Empire coming to force primative worlds to convert to their faith(but they will provide technological marvels in exchange)


Also why is that last sentence relavent? You could go to another website and ask them if they would join the Galactic Empire in exchange for being made a Moff or Planetary Governor. That doesn't mean the Empire is a great place and just because some people choose it doesen't mean everyone else should be forced in.
That would make sense. The Federation does seem to love weirdly restrictive treaties that it doesn't properly ignore.

It sounds like a concession the Federation would make in a treaty with nearby fascists, who would think getting the Federation not to imperialize every minor planet counts as a huge win and a loss to the Federation, but then are shocked when the Federation actually follows the treaty and isn't really effected by the loss.
Question can you define what you think a fascist is? Cause in Star Trek the only nation that are fascists or remincient of Nazi Germany is Cardassia. Klingons are a Feudal Empire not fascist. Romulan's are a corrupt Oligarchy not fascist. The Ferengi are hyper capitalist/libertarian not fascists. Maybe the Dominion?
 
So violate bodily autonomy and commit gross medical malpractice? Yeah they could do that, just like they could genocide or enslave other races.
I'm not a fan of moral systems where the ethical thing to do is let people die when you can, with relatively few efforts on your part, prevent that.
 
Consider what being pre-Warp means in the Star Trek universe- it means that unless you're the keepers of one of those ancient forerunner ruins that somehow travel through galactic transport beams or wibbly-wobbly time stuff or whatever, and unless you're actually higher level energy beings that have abandoned power and statehood to relax as on vacation as simple meat-body arcadian farmers, then if you are fully brought into contact you usually have no way to seek alternatives to the hegemony of your contactor, even in theory. No other cultural perspectives to consult, no other trade deals on the table, no other way to acquire a modern galactic-standard education, unless your planet is strategically located enough that multiple interstellar powers are contending for it and then just turn your home into a covert battlefield.

Warp drive or no Warp drive is not actually the best measure of overall scientific understanding and 'evolution' of a civilization as Starfleet would put it- as seen with all the times Starfleet pokes space gods or giant crystalline brains or weird culty colonies of other humans. What it works as really is not as a deep analysis of the structure of a civilization, but simply as a results based measure. If a planet has Warp drive then the power imbalance is not so insurmountable that they are not able to assert their own agency and sovereignty and act on their own interests, and as a final extremity can send a ship in a not-Federation direction to request patronage and protection.
Hmm, that has a logic to it, but I can think of some complicating factors:

1) "No way to seek alternatives to the hegemony of your contactor, even in theory" - I can think of one! Let's say your patron power is the Federation - persuade the Federation to take some representatives of your society to Earth, and from there some of them can buy tickets on ships going to Ferenginar or wherever. Even if there aren't regular commercial passenger ships going to, say, Quo'noS and Romulus, there are traders like Harry Mudd who might be willing to take you there for the right price, and we know it's possible to hire one on Earth (Spock/McCoy was trying to do it in The Search For Spock). Alternately, if travelling to, say, Ferenginar isn't feasible, the Ferengi (and Klingons, Romulans, etc.) likely have embassies on Earth that you could go to; if it works similarly to twenty-first century diplomatic embassies there's probably a Ferengi consulate you could visit. If the Federation wants to give representatives of a pre-warp society opportunities to talk to, say, the Ferengi, it would be easy for the Federation to arrange that. For that matter, once an outside power like the Ferengi know about an inhabited world, there's nothing except maybe treaties with the Federation and sheer distance to prevent them from visiting that world themselves if they're interested in doing so.

2) Could a planet with technology similar to, say, 2070s Earth actually feasibly send a ship to the likely distant territory of another major power? According to Memory Alpha, it took the Terra Novan colonists nine years to reach Eta Cassiopeiae; that's a little bit more than 2 c. At that speed, it might take centuries for an expedition to reach the territory of another major power.

I mean I don't believe this was every really the angle but

"The Prime Directive is a mutual treaty obligation between the United Federation and the Klingon/Romulan Empire"

Like that makes a certain moral sense to me.
The Prime Directive is basically the Zoo Hypothesis, which was suggested to explain why aliens haven't visited us. So I think if I were writing Star Trek, I might suggest that the Federation's Prime Directive is a continuation of a much older tradition that was already long established when Zephram Cochrane built the Phoenix. Like, maybe more-or-less non-interference with societies incapable of interstellar travel is enforced on the entire galaxy by the Preservers, and the Prime Directive is the Federation's version of affirming they're a signatory to that part of galactic law and telling starship Captains "whatever you do, don't do anything that might get the aloof mysterious super-advanced galactic hegemon aliens angry at us!" That would give a different perspective to the debate, as the Preservers might be blue and orange morality aliens. This idea would fit well with my headcanon that most Star Trek "aliens" are really descendants of humans and hominids transplanted to other planets by the Preservers.
 
Yeah, S6E20 of TNG "The Chase"

Turns out a while back the galaxy was pretty well empty of intelligent life, so the first species that invented the Warp Drive was like "well what if we tinkered with a bunch of worlds ecologies so they'd all produce Forehead Aliens, like us"

That's why a bunch of different planets produced intelligent species with the same body plan at the same time.
 
Like, maybe more-or-less non-interference with societies incapable of interstellar travel is enforced on the entire galaxy by the Preservers, and the Prime Directive is the Federation's version of affirming they're a signatory to that part of galactic law and telling starship Captains "whatever you do, don't do anything that might get the aloof mysterious super-advanced galactic hegemon aliens angry at us!"
There is also as always the example of Kevin Uxbridge. When the repercussions of fucking around may involve finding out that your entire species just got wiped from existence, it may encourage a certain degree of circumspection in your dealings with apparent primitives that gets baked into the general interstellar culture.


Of course there seems to be more than a little fucking around that goes on anyway, so this idea may not hold up under even mild scrutiny.
 
Hmm, that has a logic to it, but I can think of some complicating factors:

1) "No way to seek alternatives to the hegemony of your contactor, even in theory" - I can think of one! Let's say your patron power is the Federation - persuade the Federation to take some representatives of your society to Earth, and from there some of them can buy tickets on ships going to Ferenginar or wherever. Even if there aren't regular commercial passenger ships going to, say, Quo'noS and Romulus, there are traders like Harry Mudd who might be willing to take you there for the right price, and we know it's possible to hire one on Earth (Spock/McCoy was trying to do it in The Search For Spock). Alternately, if travelling to, say, Ferenginar isn't feasible, the Ferengi (and Klingons, Romulans, etc.) likely have embassies on Earth that you could go to; if it works similarly to twenty-first century diplomatic embassies there's probably a Ferengi consulate you could visit. If the Federation wants to give representatives of a pre-warp society opportunities to talk to, say, the Ferengi, it would be easy for the Federation to arrange that. For that matter, once an outside power like the Ferengi know about an inhabited world, there's nothing except maybe treaties with the Federation and sheer distance to prevent them from visiting that world themselves if they're interested in doing so.

2) Could a planet with technology similar to, say, 2070s Earth actually feasibly send a ship to the likely distant territory of another major power? According to Memory Alpha, it took the Terra Novan colonists nine years to reach Eta Cassiopeiae; that's a little bit more than 2 c. At that speed, it might take centuries for an expedition to reach the territory of another major power.

The Prime Directive is basically the Zoo Hypothesis, which was suggested to explain why aliens haven't visited us. So I think if I were writing Star Trek, I might suggest that the Federation's Prime Directive is a continuation of a much older tradition that was already long established when Zephram Cochrane built the Phoenix. Like, maybe more-or-less non-interference with societies incapable of interstellar travel is enforced on the entire galaxy by the Preservers, and the Prime Directive is the Federation's version of affirming they're a signatory to that part of galactic law and telling starship Captains "whatever you do, don't do anything that might get the aloof mysterious super-advanced galactic hegemon aliens angry at us!" That would give a different perspective to the debate, as the Preservers might be blue and orange morality aliens. This idea would fit well with my headcanon that most Star Trek "aliens" are really descendants of humans and hominids transplanted to other planets by the Preservers.
1) doesn't solve the issue of being completely at the Federation's mercy. The power imbalance is the issue. It doesn't matter how good the Federation's intentions are.
The Prime Directive is basically the Zoo Hypothesis, which was suggested to explain why aliens haven't visited us. So I think if I were writing Star Trek, I might suggest that the Federation's Prime Directive is a continuation of a much older tradition that was already long established when Zephram Cochrane built the Phoenix.
This is also just plain canon like the Precurser thing. The Prime Directive was Vulcan explorer policy before it was the Federation's or Starfleet's. That's the entire plot of the movie First Contact and a major source of tension between Earth and Vulcan during Star trek Enterprise.
 
Leaving aside the centralisation=leftist bit (I don't disagree that the *Federation* is a state and not anarchist but that wasn't the argument your first post that I responded to made) I don't think "They could turn out bad and do evil in the meantime" is a good argument for imperialism. And yes its imperialism not just intervention, you can't destroy social systems that cause harm without imperialism of one stripe or another. I certainly feel that the Federation trying to conqure the galaxy and impose its values (which this thread and others have pointed out are far from perfect) is the greater evil than holding non-interferance as the ideal (which is not always met and can be broken from with good cause).
Many people would pick using the veil of ignorance to have a world where larger powers don't invade and occupy weaker ones, where they are forced to abandon their customs and beliefs. Also you seem to misunderstand what the veil of ignorance is. It doesn't mean you look at your current circumstances and say "Well this is favorable towards my population so I like it. You are supposed to be blind to EVERYTHING race, sex, religion, politics, philosophy, etc. Because while you might be willing to help the UFP conquer your world and impose your ideology. You probably wouldn't be happy if the Klingons come to enslave you for being a weakling, or Cardassia decides you need to go to a camp for being a "degenerate" and a "threat to society" or some other Empire coming to force primative worlds to convert to their faith(but they will provide technological marvels in exchange)
My position remains that people should be free to choose their fate unburdened by the circumstances of their birth. While attaining this option does not require the destruction of less developed cultures, it would nigh inevitably lead to it. What do you think would happen if by fiat every modern state would accept any immigrant? The answer is that the already extensive flow of immigrants out of developing would be greatly magnified, resulting in a drain of those with education, money, talent, or gumption. If we expanded this fiat to "and would provide the resources to support their move and establishment" it would be more egalitarian but also lead to an even more decisive drain. In the end you'd only be left over with people who value the culture and family that indoctrinated them moreso than they value moving to a non-imploding non-failed state.

Nations are a spook. Borders aren't real. If you think Americans should help LGBT people in Alabama, or at least help them escape to a more tolerant jurisdiction, we should be willing to do the same for LGBT people in Uganda. Or China. Or a pre-warp feudal world. Either we have a perogative to help people and free them to choose their own path, or we don't. I don't understand the moral rationale for only doing so if they fall the right side of some arbitrary line drawn by a warlord centuries ago after some vigorous ethnic cleansing.

If my ancestors hadn't been able to move to America generations ago, we'd most likely be dead. At the very minimum we'd have a substantively worse quality of life. In the end my ancestors were lucky to escape, and luckier still that the USA hadn't gone hardline closed borders. The idea that people should just have to tough it out in developing states, because if they were allowed to leave seeking opportunity it could further destabilize their already precarious home nation, or that introducing them to the idea of "better things are possible" could do so, is kind of unconscionable to me. I know that the reasons the USA closed its borders to immigrants had nothing to do with concern about the countries they were emigrating from, but the outcome is the same. No freedom to move means denying people the opportunity to seek a better future, or for a lot of them any future, whether they know it or not.
 
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My position remains that people should be free to choose their fate unburdened by the circumstances of their birth. While attaining this option does not require the destruction of less developed cultures, it would nigh inevitably lead to it. What do you think would happen if by fiat every modern state would accept any immigrant? The answer is that the already extensive flow of immigrants out of developing would be greatly magnified, resulting in a drain of those with education, money, talent, or gumption. If we expanded this fiat to "and would provide the resources to support their move and establishment" it would be more egalitarian but also lead to an even more decisive drain. In the end you'd only be left over with people who value the culture and family that indoctrinated them moreso than they value moving to a non-imploding non-failed state.

Nations are a spook. Borders aren't real. If you think Americans should help LGBT people in Alabama, or at least help them escape to a more tolerant jurisdiction, we should be willing to do the same for LGBT people in Uganda. Or China. Or a pre-warp feudal world. Either we have a perogative to help people and free them to choose their own path, or we don't. I don't understand the moral rationale for only doing so if they fall the right side of some arbitrary line drawn by a warlord centuries ago after some vigorous ethnic cleansing.

If my ancestors hadn't been able to move to America generations ago, we'd most likely be dead. At the very minimum we'd have a substantively worse quality of life. In the end my ancestors were lucky to escape, and luckier still that the USA hadn't gone hardline closed borders. The idea that people should just have to tough it out in developing states, because if they were allowed to leave seeking opportunity it could further destabilize their already precarious home nation, or that introducing them to the idea of "better things are possible" could do so, is kind of unconscionable to me. I know that the reasons the USA closed its borders to immigrants had nothing to do with concern about the countries they were emigrating from, but the outcome is the same. You are denying people the opportunity to seek a better future, or any future, whether they know it or not.

So, just let it be known on prewarp planets that any who wish to abandon their world and people forever and take their chances among the spacemen should paint a funny triangle on the ground and wait near it, but otherwise don't intervene?
 
So, just let it be known on prewarp planets that any who wish to abandon their world and people forever and take their chances among the spacemen should paint a funny triangle on the ground and wait near it, but otherwise don't intervene?
Well I guess if you wanted to be really bad at PR you could do it like that. Which I guess mostly makes my point for me. The only way a feudal society is going to have most anyone outside the aristocracy not choose the spacemen is if they are denied the ability to make an informed decision on the topic, either by denying all information about relative spacemen quality of life, or simply indoctrinating them to hate spacemen and prioritize the traditional way of life over all quality of life metrics.

No one here would countenance closing off the borders of Alabama or turning off their access to internet so that they can "maintain their traditional way of life" or "prevent brain drain". Why are some people allowed to seek opportunity, and others denied it? Is there something less worthy about a gay man in Uganda relative to a gay man in Alabama that I'm missing here? I can't really accept "preserving this nation's culture is more important than the lives and wellbeing of its inhabitants" unless it is those inhabitants who are suffering that voluntarily consent to it, and even then I'm going to be giving some scrutiny to how 'voluntary' it is.

Now regarding real life examples I don't see much point in contacting the Sentinelese people at this time, mainly due to the relative scale. There are literally billions of already contacted people who are suffering and need help, help that we can give them without disrupting their culture to the same degree, or exposing them to dangerous diseases they have no immunity. To be honest things aren't that great even in the most prosperous of nations. But the math changes when you have 1 trillion people living in a post-scarcity utopia Federation for whom help has hit the point of diminishing returns, but trillions more people living on pre-warp feudal worlds or whatnot.
 
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The odd thing about Star Trek is it seems to assume that it's a post-scarcity society, but a lot of the plotlines in the series itself only exist because there is scarcity.

This is especially explicit in the newer series like Picard and Discovery, where the scarcity of logistics in the former meant Romulus could not be fully evacuated, and the scarcity of resources (specifically dilithium) in the latter led indirectly to the near-dissolution of the Federation.
 
Fundimentally this is because the 90s shows and the 2010/20s shows want to tell different stories. The 90s shows like TNG and DS9 are very clear that the federation has plenty of planets for refugees and are post scarcity. VOY had to try really hard and stretch belief to do scarcity episodes even when they where a single ship travelling alone. PIC and DISCO want to tell stories about scarcity though so they did.

There isn't really a good watsonian reason for the change but there doesn't need to be one. (Still not a fan of PIC and DISCO S1-3 but that's not because of the retcons)
 
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It's pretty easy to imagine a high-tech future society that combines the following characteristics:

1) Prioritizes happiness, comfort, leisure, free time, personal freedom, and self-actualization over productivity.
2) Has tech good enough that they're very wealthy and their general population has a very high material standard of living despite 1).
3) Still has significant resource bottlenecks despite 2).
 
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Yeah the Federation is "post scarcity" in that there's enough resources out in space, and advanced enough technology to harvest them and make use of them, that basically everyone lives in material comfort, with all their basic needs handily taken care of, and if you want/need something it's a trivial matter (wokka wokka) to just replicate it (within reason presumably), and if you're not feeling whatever planet you're on you can just hop on the next shuttle to a strange new world of your choosing, free of charge.

There's still scarcity of resources, but it's closer to just scarcity resource allocation than resource management. Just because everyone can chill and pursue interests at their leisure doesn't change the fact that you can only build so many starships so fast. And even a post-scarcity world will have those rich in friends or poor in friends, or rich in talents or poor in talents, etc.

The Burn of DIS is a unique case - it upended galactic society precisely because it transformed something that was taken for granted (IIRC dilithium's might be a hassle to extract but it's not hard to find) and removed it overnight. It'd be like if all fresh water on the planet except for Lake Superior vanished over night - suddenly something that was just an everyday fact of life is now the most precious resource on Earth.
 
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