The Republic of Cuba, Socialist Republic of Vietnam, and Democratic People's Republic of Korea circa 2020 are sent 70 years into the past...
Modern North Korea, Vietnam, and Cuba ISOTed to 1950
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A Tankie ASB has a VERY GOOD IDEA
King Washington
Semi-Depressed Lurker
- Location
- Indiana
Vladimir the Tankie Alien Space Bat decides to see if they can tilt the Cold War into the communists favor. On January 1st 2020 North Korea, Vietnam, and Cuba (sans Guantanamo Bay) find themselves being transported to the year 1950 on the same date.
The Cold War is still in its early days and events like the Korean and Vietnam Wars as well as the Cuban Revolution haven't even occurred yet.
So how do each regime interact with Stalin's Soviet Union and Mao's PRC and how does uptime information affect them? I somehow expect there is going to be a lot of purges...
And of course the young South Korea is probably going to fall to the orwellian up-timers, the French has suddenly completely lost control of Vietnam, and the United States now has a technologically superior communist nation right off it's coast. Can someone say Red Scare ×100?
The Cold War is still in its early days and events like the Korean and Vietnam Wars as well as the Cuban Revolution haven't even occurred yet.
So how do each regime interact with Stalin's Soviet Union and Mao's PRC and how does uptime information affect them? I somehow expect there is going to be a lot of purges...
And of course the young South Korea is probably going to fall to the orwellian up-timers, the French has suddenly completely lost control of Vietnam, and the United States now has a technologically superior communist nation right off it's coast. Can someone say Red Scare ×100?
Nothing special. Vietnam and Cuba are classic third world regimes with some elements of a socialist past. If the US opens up Western markets for their products and lets in its tourists, these countries will join the non-Aligned movement or become allies of the West altogether. If the US chooses the military option, then the Vietnamese and Cubans will instantly remember about Moscow. North Korea will easily take over the Korean Peninsula. Stalin and Beria will first execute their murderers and reform their ideology so that 1991 doesn't happen. Stalin in real history began to divide the party and the state, but he was fed poison before he finished. Then there will be a cold war on a different technical level. If it does not escalate into a hot war and there are no military coups from the оrthodox, by about 2000, Soviet communism and American capitalism are turning into variations of Swedish socialism.
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AYC
Make blunts not bombs
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- California
2020 Vietnam is a thoroughly capitalist market economy, and is by far the best positioned to take advantage of the ISOT. Western corporations with branches in Vietnam will quickly contact their downtime counterparts, which will provide a huge economic boost. Combine that with Vietnam exporting uptime tech to downtime countries, and the future is looking not only bright, but positively glowing for the "Socialist" Republic of Vietnam.
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There will still be problems. "Socialist" Vietnam will be like a red rag for Mr. McCarthy. If the West allows cheap and high-quality Vietnamese goods to enter its markets and the markets of the colonies (there is no decolonization yet) it will lose profits and jobs. Lobbyists and unions will be strongly opposed. Vietnam will automatically become the hegemon of Southeast Asia and a bad example for all of Asia. On the other hand, the US needs to win back China and Korea in 1950. And an Alliance of countries from Russia and the Soviet bloc is quite capable of crushing the North Atlantic Alliance in an open war. Turn Vietnam 2020 into a second Japan, rich and progressive? Impose sanctions and push them into a crisis? Too many variables, you need someone who knows the inner workings of the American establishment of the 1950s.
- Location
- Philippines
Sanctions are not going to do squat to Vietnam they can easily trade with The USSR and China. Who will support vietnam in exchange for Tech-uplift and to coordinate a defense against NK.
I am not sure how the NK counts as a Communist Country though.
- Location
- Busan Metropolitan City, Republic of Korea
Opposition to the US is enough for both the Left and the Right in calling one a Communist.
Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
North Korea is about as old school communist as it gets at least in the Stalinist sense with a deep state control economy and totalitarian and militaristic leadership, however, they are entirely reliant on outside support for there economy and very survival, that being said I don't actually see Vietnam being sanctioned or embargoed as the tech would be too valuable plus America has worked with socialists or "socialists" in name even during the cold war to fight full on communists and Vietnam have a bit of a hate boner for china so I dont see them working together even if America was being malicious, although I can see them working with the Soviet Union.
That being said I also as someone mentioned see them taking out South Korea but even with the tech advantage, I doubt they will fix there economy to self-sufficiency and there current ideology of striving for such will hamper them plus the Soviet Union and China may see it as more advantageous to let North Korea slowly die in order to swoop in, steal the tech, and put up a new compliant regime.
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- Location
- Philippines
They may not have the luxury of letting NK slowly die. Remember that the NK have Nuclear Potential with Long Range Missile Tech so they may become a nuclear power and acting as such extort the world.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
Exporting all their tech to the US only works until China decides to park 10 million troops in Vietnam, and the USSR sending another million, with a 100k strong North Korean shock army.
- Location
- Watchung,New Jersey
And then the US comes up and says "Hey Guys, Dont invade our new freinds. They may be Commie in Name but their our Coommies and in case you didnt know Nuclear Weapons have not been affected in the least by the Event..."
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
None of them are afraid of the US.
North Korea will become a missile and nuke factory for the Soviets and China, and they'll tell the US to get fucked. If the US actually tries to fight, North Korean missiles and subs will sink US ships and Vietnam will drown in enemy manpower.
- Location
- Philippines
Err... it's 1950 China that just came from a Civil War and the Idea of USSR sending a million troops all the way to Vietnam when they have a downsized force of around 2-3 million is hilarious.
You do realize that while China can try to field that many troops they would be focused on securing control of China and that USSR won't send that many considering that Vietnam would be happy to deal with the Soviet Union
Also why the hell would NK support this? They will probably just rob China for food my god how will they feed NK they went from around 9 million people (1950) in NK to 25 million (2020) .
Also, you are forgetting that the Vietnamese Army which is Modernized mind you has over 400,000 Active members and 5M in Reserves. They can stand their ground if push comes to shove.
- Location
- France
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This is stupid. Modern war between powers isn't won on troop numbers, it's won on industry.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
China and the USSR have plenty of labor and farmland to feed North Korea, and will be happy to buy their weapons too, whereas Vietnam will have an economic crash due to being cut off from imports and exports.
Vietnam's domestic electronics industry and technology makes it a huge target worth taking for the Soviets and China and North Korea, especially if the alternative is the US gaining all that.
Vietnam won't have any advantage against enemy numbers once their advanced tech runs out and breaks down, so it just comes down to what the Vietnamese domestic automotive industry can come up with, and if it can make up for North Korean support on the enemy side.
I don't think modern Vietnam is in anyway prepared to be at full scale war the same way the other three nations are.
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- Location
- France
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- She/They
The US threaten to nuke Moscow if Vietnam is attacked because they got paid in tech. The end.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
The Soviets and North Korea also have nukes and tell the US to get fucked. Japan maybe even tries to stay neutral so they don't get nuked again, and the US loses the ability to nuke large portions of Asia due to North Korean interceptor aircraft and missiles.
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- France
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- She/They
It's 1950, the soviets can't nuke much and NK can't reach anything the US really care about.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
The Soviets can nuke Europe and the US doesn't know what North Korea can and can't nuke, besides definitely all of the US bases in Asia.
With Soviet and Chinese basing, North Korea might even be able to hit the mainland US and Hawaii with ease.
Regardless, this has been tested IRL, and the US simply won't start a nuclear war. North Korea is well aware of this and happy to escalate accordingly.
Cybandeath
Lord Darkness, and Representative of Mad Science
- Location
- The United States of America
Uh no
North Korea has less then a thousand aircraft, that are WAY out of date by modern standards to the point 1950s America could easily overtake them why? because most of there aircraft are FROM the 50s, they have next to no aircraft tech advantage. Also North Koreans tech in general is immensely unreliable outside of well there old 1950s equipment which is still unreliable just not as bad.
Also even with Soviet and Chinese Help North Korea would not have the capacity to make many nukes at all and this is perhaps during when America is in one of the heights of Red Scare and perfectly willing to go to war if they think they can win. And Even with Soviet and Chinese assistance would not be able to take on the US navy as their navy is also WAY out of date and frankly a bunch of junkers.
Also China is in nowhere near the shape needed to fight a full scale war, they had problems later fighting a tech inferior Vietnam long after recovering from the civil war. invading Vietnam now would be a DISASTER for china especially with full-scale American assistance that would normally have gone into the Korean and Vietnam wars.
Further any tech North Korea can give would be inferior to Vietnam ontop of China and Soviets having well "problems" when it comes to technological research, the Soviets being able to overcome this in part due to sheer size and funding but have issues such as there tech fetish for Vacuum Tube Computing for example while America has a well developed and still fully running wartime military industrial complex dedicated to all sorts of research projects.
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I think what happens is we get to see what would have happened if MAD hadn't kept things from going nuts. North Korea is really the sticking point in all this. Cuba would probably be happy to lord it over the Caribbean and become an effective equal to other nearby powers. Vietnam would laugh all the way to the bank as they could operate just find with pretty much anyone and are now the DOMINANT nation in Asia.
But North Korea is the problem. They might kick off WWIII, against South Korea, or China, or the USA, it is incredibly hard to pick when or how, but my guess is that they would. But they are in no way a match for 1950's USA, but their leadership is probably not going to give up this 'chance' and that would probably lead to a very very bloody war, and we would get to see nukes used again.
The only real question is if it is both North and South Korea, along with bits of Japan vanishing, or if Russia and China get involved too and it becomes truly global in the death. I just don't see North Korea being savvy enough to try and utilize the small tech advantage it has and build that over time with Russian or Chinese support through patience and planning. Where as Vietnam would be all over that and working to help keep a world ballance because they are now the 1st world nation of nations and would want to keep that spot, and that would require no war.
But North Korea is the problem. They might kick off WWIII, against South Korea, or China, or the USA, it is incredibly hard to pick when or how, but my guess is that they would. But they are in no way a match for 1950's USA, but their leadership is probably not going to give up this 'chance' and that would probably lead to a very very bloody war, and we would get to see nukes used again.
The only real question is if it is both North and South Korea, along with bits of Japan vanishing, or if Russia and China get involved too and it becomes truly global in the death. I just don't see North Korea being savvy enough to try and utilize the small tech advantage it has and build that over time with Russian or Chinese support through patience and planning. Where as Vietnam would be all over that and working to help keep a world ballance because they are now the 1st world nation of nations and would want to keep that spot, and that would require no war.
Vietnam's problem is globalization. After the collapse of imports of consumables, high-tech chips, semi-finished products, blanks, refined metals and alloys, chemicals and the loss of markets for its products, Vietnam is sliding into an economic crisis. The US can help, but it must be done quickly. Will Congress in 1950 give money, markets, and raw materials to the "Reds" to the detriment of American citizens? Small probability. The old way to stop the mouths of the discontented is a victorious war. The real Korean war with the depleted world war II USSR and China (which also had a civil war) showed equality of opportunity. North Korea 2020 will sweep away South Korea 1950 and any expeditionary forces, but what's next? And then the economy. Without Iranian oil (the USSR simply does not have it in the far East and it is impossible to deliver it), the North Korean economy collapses in a year.
Cuba and North Korea need oil. The USSR has no oil in 1950. Will Congress give oil to the Reds? Congress will give loans, markets, raw materials, let its tourists to Cuba and Vietnam? How quickly will Congress resolve this? In a couple of months, countries from 2020 will have the same choice as Japan in 1941. Either economic collapse or war.
Cuba and North Korea need oil. The USSR has no oil in 1950. Will Congress give oil to the Reds? Congress will give loans, markets, raw materials, let its tourists to Cuba and Vietnam? How quickly will Congress resolve this? In a couple of months, countries from 2020 will have the same choice as Japan in 1941. Either economic collapse or war.
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Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
North Korea has an unlimited demand for exports from China and the Soviets and no more import restrictions strangling it. What exactly are they going to be collapsing from as their food supply, morale, economy, and faith in government are stronger than ever?
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In 2005, North Korea consumed 25,000 barrels of oil a day and produced only 138 barrels. Before the collapse of the Soviet Union, North Korea imported 76,000 barrels a day. Question: where will the North Koreans get oil in 1950? The USSR and China in 1950 have neither the infrastructure nor the ability to provide oil to an ally in the far East in the necessary volumes. In how many weeks will the North Korean economy collapse? And keep in mind that the war against South Korea-1950 is almost a foregone conclusion and Pyongyang will also spend its untouchable oil reserves.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
China produced more than 250,000 tons of oil per day right next to North Korea. There's no oil shortage in the short term, and certainly not in the medium or long term as the Manchurian oil reserves get noticed years earlier with North Korean information, and the Soviets will be building supply lines East furiously. I'm also skeptical that the Soviets can't supply North Korea to begin with since they had no problem tearing through Manchuria with vehicles at the end of WW2.
Are you serious?! In 1950, the production of 200 tons of shale oil per day is 1500 barrels with a minimum demand of 25,000 North Korea (for normal operation 76,000). This is provided that Mao Zedong gives everything to the drop (and he will not give) . To get mangzhurskoy oil will take years. By 1945, the USSR had been preparing to fight Japan for about 15 years and was creating military reserves in the far East. More than 50% of lend-lease, including fuel, passed through the far East. And carrying a minimum of 20,000 barrels per day on the TRANS-Siberian railway will not allow the capacity of the railway. Daqing?! Depths of 1-4 km, and the USSR in 1950 only mastered experimental drilling at 1200 meters. Equipment is out of the question. Do not confuse the great oil and gas power of the 1970s and the USSR-1950, where trucks are filled with firewood and straw (gas generators). Soviet military pilots had 8-hour flight experience in 1941, not because the USSR had an excess of fuel. Daqing will produce oil in industrial volumes only in 2-3 years.