I am really amazed by your portrayal of Mesa, they are undoubtedly "evil" but your interpretation of their ideology makes their actions I think far more relatable and to some extent sympathetic than they ever were in the books.

That said I am a bit confused by the fact that most of the leaders come from worlds with a very recent history of (civil) war which seems somewhat at odds with their League membership/good standing. I guess they could be freshly inducted Frontier worlds but again in that case I don't exactly see where their political standing and influence is supposed to come from.
 
An interesting depiction of the Alignment's priorities and extreme long-term view, that a single transhumanist planet - arguably closer to them philosophically - is instead viewed as an important enemy.

This is such a relatable ideologue-failstate thing it's amazing

The guys philosophically opposed to you are the opposition

The guys who have a philosophy which is nearly but not quite congruent to yours are the enemy

Certainly, it does make it feel a little like what @Gargulec said-that the Mesans for all they've been doing haven't actually managed to extirpate their own humanity as much as they think they have.

Or perhaps as an alternate take, I'm thinking to what Francis Fukuyama said about his opposition to transhumanism-that he opposes it because transhumanism, the idea of going beyond human capabilities and modifying or removing human weakness-is fundamentally opposed to humanism, which needs to embrace human diversity and, yes, flaws. What if Mesa is seeing things in the opposite way? What if Mesa sees Sharpton as the enemy because they're explicitly transhumanist, and Mesans are, instead, posthumanist in their philosophy? What if the very reason Sharpton is an enemy rather than a fellow traveler is that Sharpton wishes to use genetic modification, surgical augmentation, and cybernetic interfacing to round off human weaknesses-to make humans 'more human' as it were, while Mesa thinks that doing so is building a skyscraper on shaky foundations?
 
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I am extremely conflicted because

on the one hand I don't want to see likeable characters die and the whole setting catch on fire and millions more to die within the narrative

on the other hand you wrote one of the best space battles I have read in a long while, followed it up by an incredible scene of technological horror in the coordinated bombing of several planets, and then proceeded to

describe the looming threat of full-scale engagements as the chief threat people attempt to avoid

building it up for tens of thousands of words

and then they succeed

which on one hand yay?

on the other hand i am blueballed as fuck

where is my final, climactic space battle putting all the choreography of Spindle with the scope of Oyster Bay???

WHERE IS IT BATTUTA
 
On the subject of Mesa, throughout the entire rewrite, I've been struck with a thought and it feels appropriate to mention here.

It feels like with Mesa, it's not just those sold as chattel but all of them --- from the operatives, to the Shark pilots, to even as high up as Albrecht Detweiler himself --- are slaves to the Alignment. They have a role they're given at birth, and, if they follow it then things appear well. But then we see with the death of Herlander Simöes that those who try to stray find the reality of the situation revealed. That they are owned by their role, and cannot be allowed to deviate from it, no matter what they might want or think differently.

I am extremely conflicted because

on the one hand I don't want to see likeable characters die and the whole setting catch on fire and millions more to die within the narrative

on the other hand you wrote one of the best space battles I have read in a long while, followed it up by an incredible scene of technological horror in the coordinated bombing of several planets, and then proceeded to

describe the looming threat of full-scale engagements as the chief threat people attempt to avoid

building it up for tens of thousands of words

and then they succeed

which on one hand yay?

on the other hand i am blueballed as fuck

where is my final, climactic space battle putting all the choreography of Spindle with the scope of Oyster Bay???

WHERE IS IT BATTUTA
You say this as though this is not fitting punishment in kind, Omicron.

You know what you did to Yachiru.
 
The Mesa Alignment plan kind of feels like they needed more people with the KISS mentality. Or maybe it's a case of them being modified to the point that they are no longer capable of "less sophisticated thinking".
 
On the subject of Mesa, throughout the entire rewrite, I've been struck with a thought and it feels appropriate to mention here.

It feels like with Mesa, it's not just those sold as chattel but all of them --- from the operatives, to the Shark pilots, to even as high up as Albrecht Detweiler himself --- are slaves to the Alignment. They have a role they're given at birth, and, if they follow it then things appear well. But then we see with the death of Herlander Simöes that those who try to stray find the reality of the situation revealed. That they are owned by their role, and cannot be allowed to deviate from it, no matter what they might want or think differently.


You say this as though this is not fitting punishment in kind, Omicron.

You know what you did to Yachiru.
In my defense, when I'm the writer, I'm the one inflicting suffering on my characters and readers.

It's not fair that this relationship should be reversed just because someone else is doing the writing.
 
"Repeat!" Rafael Cardones snapped into his headset. His eyes narrowed. "Admiral, we have a destroyer just arrived from Trevor's Star via wormhole. They are reporting a hyper footprint at the Trevor's Star limit. Three hundred Havenite ships of the wall just made a zero-velocity translation. They're holding station. There's one ship accelerating in-system. We have an FTL platform nearby and they got a transponder ID…"


I had to go back and re-check.

The SLN spy ship is - likely - still in Manticore at the wormhole.

A destroyer from Trevor's Star transited and sent an encrypted message.

That's all the SLN knows, since all the Havenites (300 SDN's) are still at Trevor's Star.

Good. Whew.

And now we can have something brand new - the Republic of Haven Navy paying a courtesy visit to Beowulf... just in time to see the SLN show up.

Coincidence.

Definitely.

It was just a courtesy visit during a time they needed Beowulf's medical expertise, after all.

For who? Doesn't matter - medical privacy, you know!
 
Bravo! I grew up on the Honor Harrington books and I really like this re-imagining of how things might go. Weber is good, but I think he's reached his limits when it came to how to end his characters.
 
Or perhaps as an alternate take, I'm thinking to what Francis Fukuyama said about his opposition to transhumanism-that he opposes it because transhumanism, the idea of going beyond human capabilities and modifying or removing human weakness-is fundamentally opposed to humanism, which needs to embrace human diversity and, yes, flaws. What if Mesa is seeing things in the opposite way? What if Mesa sees Sharpton as the enemy because they're explicitly transhumanist, and Mesans are, instead, posthumanist in their philosophy? What if the very reason Sharpton is an enemy rather than a fellow traveler is that Sharpton wishes to use genetic modification, surgical augmentation, and cybernetic interfacing to round off human weaknesses-to make humans 'more human' as it were, while Mesa thinks that doing so is building a skyscraper on shaky foundations?

I would oppose the term posthumanist here because for me it primarily refers to a trend in contemporary humanities (hehe) that seeks to decenter them from focusing so much on the human as the crown of creation (so it is also called postanhropocentrism). But overall, I think I agree, with the caveat that I feel like it is way too easy to buy into Mesan propaganda, the propaganda they not only spread to others, but also to themselves.

If the Alignment meeting reminds me of anything, it is of the stories of Jeffrey Epstein's throng of brains-for-hire cultivating his deeply held belief that he is, indeed, the very specialest human being on the planet. The Alignment has the Best Genes, Folded Over Ten Hundred Generations. They are the prettiest, the smartest! Hell, they even genetically removed their ability to be conformist, which is why they are all in agreement over the plan to make their Most Rational Understanding of What Life Is mandatory for everyone in the galaxy. Their head honcho is a guy who intellectually masturbates himself while having sex with his wife, because his throbbing brain-erection cannot be sated by meme pleasures of the flesh, when compared to the real pleasure organ of his body that is his perfectly-cloned brain.

They are, in short, completely and utterly pathetic. They are the people who, under any other circumstances, and if they were alive today, would make creepy YouTube vidoes with skulls in the background, or demand to see your manager, or write screed to the Quilette about how biological determinism is just biological realism and the stupid feminists don't know about that. But the fact that they are utterly pathetic makes them no less scary, because they have so much power.

Their movement passes itself as visionary, but at the absolute bottom it is a bunch of people who are not just convinced of their own perfection, but also criminally insecure about it. They don't just want to be recognised as the bestest humans, they want to Objectively Biologically Made It So that they are on the top of the human pyramid, where they obviously belong. The scary thing about them is not the power of their ideology, is not their intellect, not even their looks, but the fact that they have enough raw, material resources to wreck the world in the process of trying to make it into their own image.

But that doesn't make them any impressive.
 
They are, in short, completely and utterly pathetic. They are the people who, under any other circumstances, and if they were alive today, would make creepy YouTube vidoes with skulls in the background, or demand to see your manager, or write screed to the Quilette about how biological determinism is just biological realism and the stupid feminists don't know about that. But the fact that they are utterly pathetic makes them no less scary, because they have so much power.

oh god detweiler is davis aurini

i dont think i can unsee this
 
Their movement passes itself as visionary, but at the absolute bottom it is a bunch of people who are not just convinced of their own perfection, but also criminally insecure about it. They don't just want to be recognised as the bestest humans, they want to Objectively Biologically Made It So that they are on the top of the human pyramid, where they obviously belong. The scary thing about them is not the power of their ideology, is not their intellect, not even their looks, but the fact that they have enough raw, material resources to wreck the world in the process of trying to make it into their own image.

And this is the positive, multi-layered and sort of believable version of the Alignment. The canon alignment, with its utter fixation on making Beowulf kneel before their rationality is soooo much worse. Hell, during the last book, several of the Detweiler clones have a little get-together after the fall of Mesa and their main topic of conversation is .... how much they hate Manticore in general and Honor Harrington in particular; it's quite pathetic really.
But enough about bad fiction.

One thing I didn't expect here but was very glad to see was Honor using her empathy and her war weariness to actually do something positive (this is also something that happened during the Haven subplot): Her talking Harkness out of making everything so much worse for everyone was a really good scene.
 
It feels like with Mesa, it's not just those sold as chattel but all of them --- from the operatives, to the Shark pilots, to even as high up as Albrecht Detweiler himself --- are slaves to the Alignment.

Which can lead to only one conclusion!!!

There is another layer to the onion - the people who _think_ they are in the center are, in fact, not - and are completely controlled by someone else for use in someone else's schemes.
 
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