Long live the Daimyo [Naruto Dynasty Quest]

@Leingod , if you don't mind me asking, are there any Economic reforms/economic plans from Real Life Nobunaga that we could use in this quest?
 
Well, he was one of the most powerful daimyo left in Japan, but after Sekigahara Ieyasu was far too entrenched for a single daimyo, however powerful, to have much hope of wresting control.
IIRC he directly said something like that. And given that Date relation with fear was about "fear, what's that, can you eat it?" he actually meant that.
 
@Leingod , if you don't mind me asking, are there any Economic reforms/economic plans from Real Life Nobunaga that we could use in this quest?

Let's see... He was the first daimyo in Japan to institute a true professional army, rather than using a nucleus of samurai and other professional warriors and filling their ranks up with conscripted peasants; this meant that peasants weren't pulled away from their farms and forced to fight wars that had no meaning to them, and Nobunaga's battlefield losses didn't harm his domain's agricultural output (which it should be remembered is by far the most important source of wealth in a pre-industrial society). He evaluated land for taxation in terms of agricultural output rather than land size, allowing him to tax domains more efficiently (taxes for stuff like mines or commerce were separate).

He also instituted a series of economic reforms called rakuichi rakuza ("free markets, open guilds," I think); this included, to begin with, lifting or lowering tolls on roads and checkpoints to encourage merchants to travel outside the borders of a domain or province. He made it easier for merchants to do business by lifting restrictive bans and taxes, and abolished monopolies and opened up guilds and other trade associations which had previously been very restricted in their membership. He encouraged the growth of certain local specialty industries to encourage trade outside the borders, such as ceramics in Owari. He also built and repaired roads to further facilitate trade (and military movements) and built castle towns at places where it would facilitate trade, with ordered city-planning that divided the towns up into districts crisscrossed with wide roads and canals. His soldiers were quartered in barracks in these towns located around the castle (which allowed Nobunaga to call up his soldiers immediately to march to war rather than gathering them in dribs and drabs from the countryside, and also meant that he could easily keep an eye on them to keep them from harming the populace), followed by districts for merchants and artisans, and temple districts were made on the outer rim (which helped provide for defense, since soldiers tend to be a superstitious lot; burning down and assaulting temples, while something that happened in the Sengoku Jidai, wasn't quite as common as burning down any other structure).

IIRC he directly said something like that. And given that Date relation with fear was about "fear, what's that, can you eat it?" he actually meant that.

I'm not saying he was afraid of Ieyasu, just that he recognized that it would be both damaging to Japan and a very unrealistic goal to go to war over by that time.
 
I'm not saying he was afraid of Ieyasu, just that he recognized that it would be both damaging to Japan and a very unrealistic goal to go to war over by that time.
Given that majority of Ieyasu's power also came from "start this shit, AGAIN?" (as in almost nobody wanted to fight Ieyasu, but almost nobody wanted to fight for Ieyasu) and that Date was like best surviving commander at time... it wasn't that unrealistic. Just risky, bloody and almost certain to go full Sengoku Jidai in generation in case of victory and they just got rid of that shit.
 
Given that majority of Ieyasu's power also came from "start this shit, AGAIN?" (as in almost nobody wanted to fight Ieyasu, but almost nobody wanted to fight for Ieyasu) and that Date was like best surviving commander at time... it wasn't that unrealistic. Just risky, bloody and almost certain to go full Sengoku Jidai in generation in case of victory and they just got rid of that shit.

It kind of was, though. Sure, if he could get enough of the other daimyo to follow his lead he could have a chance, but as you've said, that wasn't likely.

By the time of Sekigahara, Ieyasu was by far the strongest daimyo in Japan; not only had he been moved to the Kanto Plain, one of exactly two truly sizable areas of flat land perfectly suited to agriculture (the other being the Yamato Plain; it should be noted that the two capitals of Japan, Kyoto and Tokyo, are each in one of these plains), but he was also one of the only daimyo whose forces hadn't taken substantial losses from Hideyoshi's Korean debacle in the Imjin War, and to top it off, pretty much immediately after Sekigahara he started putting his children and loyal supporters in key strategic domains; there were eventually four different branches of the Tokugawa clan including the house of the shogun, each of them very powerful daimyo in their own right. He'd also decreased the power of those who had sided with the Toyotomi and increased that of those who had sided with him; the Maeda are the biggest example of this, being granted the massive Kaga Domain for their support; Kaga Domain alone, BTW, was twice the size of Masamune's Sendai Domain.

Even worse, the Toyotomi supporters had no more reason to like Masamune than Ieyasu; he had sided with the East at Sekigahara and played a critical role by keeping the Uesugi from supporting the Western Army and encircling Ieyasu. So he wasn't very likely to get any support from daimyo who had fought for the West or the East. If he had decided, "You know what? F*ck this whole peace thing, 'imma take the whole thing for myself!" he'd have been dogpiled by the other daimyo at worst and have to go up against the full might of the Tokugawa and their supporters at best. Masamune would have been risking his clan getting wiped off the face of the map for the very slight chance of sitting in the big chair atop a mound of corpses at the end of it all, and realized it wasn't worth it. It was an important decision to reach and likely not one he made lightly, but it really wasn't a case of, "Well I could totally kick your ass if I really felt like it, but I just don't want to." It was more, "Can I kick his ass? Possibly, if everything goes right for me, but it's really not worth it."
 
Diplomacy, Research and Official start update
I'm spending time with family right now and I've had a tough day yesterday so nothing got done. Like I predicted previously the official start of the quest is going to be tommorow on friday. We're going to get actual story updates then and from then on I'll keep the whole thing rolling hopefully without major hiccups.

Anyway, here's the last way in which the game is going to be played, Diplomacy and Research:

I thought a little bit about how I wanted to handle diplomacy and I came to the conclusion that any numerical values are no fun. How would you know for sure how much someone likes you and quantify it in numbers? Maybe someone likes some of your qualities and dislikes others. That's why the space reserved for diplomacy is going to be dedicated to putting everything you know about person or organization in one place. Whether you spent some nice time together or something happened that made you pissed at each other, we'll add that onto there. I'll probably also include what are their views or policies. So you'll see things like "Loathes foreigners" or "Approves of gambling". You can use this info to appeal to people that share your own policies. Your advisors can chime in with their own comments and if that happens I'll make it clear who thinks what about whom.

For example:

Rei(Diplomatic advisor): "I think he is a terrible influence. You should be careful of becoming too close."
Han(Military advisor): "He seems like a loyal person. We can count on him in a pinch."
Shin(Intrigue advisor): "He was involved in a scandal recently. We can use that to blackmail him. He doesn't handle pressure well."
Miroku(Religious advisor): "I haven't met him, nor do I know his reputation that well. I reserve my judgement."

In secret I will have a document that is more robust than what you have access too. It will contain secret motivations of people. Not everyone will have a hidden agenda, some people are going to be upfront. This will include people you haven't met yet, or heard about, just so that I can prepare to give you something at a moment's notice, but also because I will try to operate on those characters in the background even if you never hear about it. I won't do it too much because it would be a lot of work, but at the same time I want to have the feeling that things aren't just revolving around the protagonist and if he doesn't see it, then it doesn't exist and can't impact him. I won't play these characters like the players would of course, but to roleplay them. However that doesn't mean they can't legitimately get pissed at you if you push their hot button. Some will go to kick your ass immediately, some will plot and some will pretend to be your allies only to betray that alliance when it's convenient. It will depend on their personality. Other than that they will mostly just do their own thing. However having that looming threat of a proactive enemy seems really interesting to me, so if some enemy actions happen, then they will happen for a reason and with resources they actually have, instead of happenning just because a dice roll called for it.

Now for Research:

Sorry, but the timeframe is just too small to make a real impact. In the series technology actually jumps a bit after peace is achieved. People have actual cellphones in Boruto's age.

Here however it's this weird anachronistic mix. Civilian technology is at a very high standard. There's sanitation, advanced building techniques, radio and the rare 8bit computer. On the other hand military technology lags behind. I'll allow guns if you're gun-ho about it, but it's mostly a choice for the sake of coolness. We're not going to focus on that at all. This is anime-land after all.

In Shonen people get upgrades and powerups all the time. That's great. We want to have a sense that we're making progress. The enemies hero faces at the beginning of the journey are usually chumps when compared to his last enemy. So what can you do to progress as a character in the span of the quest?

I had a bunch of words written about how I was going to handle Research, but on rereading I saw just a bunch of nonsense because I couldn't communicate my idea clearly, so here I go again

I don't really want to do this sort of thing where you decide on better and better iteration of weapons and armor. Frankly it doesn't matter whatsoever. I know in reality even a minor change in a tool can have major consequences on a large scale, but what I really want to do is preserve the Shonen feel. That's when guts, willpower and overpowered fist magic is what really counts. Your armor is only there to make you look badass really. In that Sengoku Basara video on the topic of horses the leader guy is practically naked while standing on two horses strapped together. Your heroes should be just as over the top and larger than life.

That doesn't mean that you don't get to play with your equipment for fun (did that sound dirty? Sorry).

I'm not even sure if a leader of large amount of people should use his time to decide what sort of thing should be invented next. Does that sort of thing actually happen? Don't they usually just throw money at the problem? Here it's going to be simple. There are merchants and you can buy better equipment from them up to a reasonable amount. Or you can invest in people that are dedicated researchers like those on Summoning Island and estabilish a project that way and it might even pay off in a couple of years. The main character just might not have the time to focus on technology. That's just not his job. He hires people for that job. Sure you can spend time on education, but that time won't be spent learning how to kick ass or spending time with your waifu.

What you can research on your own are innovations in policies or military tactics. Drilling your people for example in how to execute a volley or learning a chakra technique.

I'd really rather progress you based on the xp you earn, and on the time your units spend to improve themselves than on projects you invest money in. Learning or inventing a useful technique is going to have way bigger impact than changing from iron to steel.


The whole research thing is actually the thing that is giving me the biggest headache right now. I'm not experienced in quests, but I've ran a couple and I know that if I don't prepare the things I have to keep track of ahead of time and reduce them to not needing more than 10 minutes then the quest will quickly become antifun for me and that's the fastest way to lose interest. Writing should be a fun activity, not a chore. I want to come prepared so that we all can have fun. If you have questions or comments then do them now. Like I said right at the beginning, we're starting tommorow on friday. I'm currently spending time visiting family, but I should handle it.
 
I'm not even sure if a leader of large amount of people should use his time to decide what sort of thing should be invented next. Does that sort of thing actually happen? Don't they usually just throw money at the problem?

IRL, inventions come from academics and other professionally curious people most of the time. They come up with the theory, the experiments, the prototypes, etc, then usually those just go into a storeroom.
Directed research is fairly recent, what the Lord's role in R&D is to see promising inventions and sponsor them.

Most of the time this is just money down the drain with nothing to show, but sometimes it pays off.
Basically the lord is just the venture capitalist in the R&D process, at most they set a bounty on something they particularly want and watch people try to win it.
 
For that case, I would have several research possibilities, but not all of them would succeed even if they were passed. Oftentimes IRL, an interesting idea fails because of some unexpected factor that makes it impossible, but they do lead to other discoveries that eventually leads to a big success. It could open up new paths or be used as a bargaining chip for diplomacy or intrigue.

For diplomacy, our allies might like a new invention that makes there work easier and more productive. Could have them willing to share some of their own ideas.

For intrigue, 'leaking' failed experiment there way and up playing them as massive economical and military successes could have them waste resources on flops that would weaken our opposition. Maybe even introduce a new vulnerability that can be exploited.
 
For dealing with technology and guns in a shonen setting with fist magic and overpowered badasses I direct you towards One Piece. Guns exist(as does super science mad scientist types) and are in use, they manly end up making the mooks a bit more dangerous then they otherwise would be but in the end mooks are mooks. That said if a badass uses a gun, then they are still badasses, just badass marksmen rather then badass fist fighters or swordsmen. Land of Snow type power armor can be used to make your mooks better, maybe into elite mook* category but it's going to be the badasses and elite badasses who have the ultra special next-gen prototype armors who can take on the other sides badasses(just like cyborgs in One Piece). In the end whether you use technology, ninja jutsu or samurai spirit all it does is change which flavor of badass you are, what matters is whether you are a badass or not.

*Fighters in shonen can be described under the categories of Mook, Elite Mook, Badass, Elite Badass, Top Power Player.
 
I'll allow guns if you're gun-ho about it, but it's mostly a choice for the sake of coolness. We're not going to focus on that at all. This is anime-land after all.

Yeah, you are 100% right, and i too agree that we shouldn't be the ones that do the invention, taking the gun as an example, i actually wanted for our Oda to talk to the scientists of Hi no Kuni and Haru/Yuki no Kuni to create it, not ourselves, we need to focus on politics and power, leave the research to the professionals. We just go ther and take the result for ourselfs.

And my idea for our usual equipment that we could do was something like this:
-A Chakra Armour shonen style made from Yuki/Hana no Kuni
-A sword and a gun as our weapons, made from the combination of Yuki/Hana no Kuni

And our gun should be something like this, not super technological, something that makes sense in this type of age but at the same time pretty shonen style that fits and works in Naruto, can be made by other scientist:


EDIT:Tough if we don't want to use weapons, and wanna go full H2H...there is always Toyotomi Hideyoshi's route :V


Reminder that in the Sengoku Basara game, Nobunaga beat Hideyoshi with his gun in a way that hideyoshi didn't start conquering till Nobunaga's death, it is to remind people that the gun i have in mind isn't a normal one, it's a more magical/chakra one.
 
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Yeah, you are 100% right, and i too agree that we shouldn't be the ones that do the invention, taking the gun as an example, i actually wanted for our Oda to talk to the scientists of Hi no Kuni and Haru/Yuki no Kuni to create it, not ourselves, we need to focus on politics and power, leave the research to the professionals. We just go ther and take the result for ourselfs.

And my idea for our usual equipment that we could do was something like this:
-A Chakra Armour shonen style made from Yuki/Hana no Kuni
-A sword and a gun as our weapons, made from the combination of Yuki/Hana no Kuni

And our gun should be something like this, not super technological, something that makes sense in this type of age but at the same time pretty shonen style that fits and works in Naruto, can be made by other scientist:


EDIT:Tough if we don't want to use weapons, and wanna go full H2H...there is always Toyotomi Hideyoshi's route :V


Reminder that in the Sengoku Basara game, Nobunaga beat Hideyoshi with his gun in a way that hideyoshi didn't start conquering till Nobunaga's death, it is to remind people that the gun i have in mind isn't a normal one, it's a more magical/chakra one.

Double barrel sawed off?
 
Double barrel sawed off?

If you're referring to Sengoku Basara's Nobunaga, the barrel of his shotgun is too long to be considered a sawed-off, I think:



For dealing with technology and guns in a shonen setting with fist magic and overpowered badasses I direct you towards One Piece. Guns exist(as does super science mad scientist types) and are in use, they manly end up making the mooks a bit more dangerous then they otherwise would be but in the end mooks are mooks. That said if a badass uses a gun, then they are still badasses, just badass marksmen rather then badass fist fighters or swordsmen. Land of Snow type power armor can be used to make your mooks better, maybe into elite mook* category but it's going to be the badasses and elite badasses who have the ultra special next-gen prototype armors who can take on the other sides badasses(just like cyborgs in One Piece). In the end whether you use technology, ninja jutsu or samurai spirit all it does is change which flavor of badass you are, what matters is whether you are a badass or not.

*Fighters in shonen can be described under the categories of Mook, Elite Mook, Badass, Elite Badass, Top Power Player.

A chakra-user who uses Fire Release in conjunction with a gun would be pretty sweet.
 
I say that we wait to know what elemental/s affinity/ties we have, and then make the gun addapting to that one/s, and latter if we get more make the creators of it upgrade it (maybe have like a "weak attack" but that is faster and can be done more conssecutive like a machinegun with elemental bullets and a strong attack that varies depending on the element:
fire: fire bullets and flame thrower; lightning: lightning and laser beam; wind: wind bullets and that a wind cannon; earth: rock bullets and something else; water:water bullets and something else).

Being somebody from the lineage of the Fire Daimyo, i can assume that fire release is a given, we just need to see if we get another one from the beginning or we have to train them to get them.
 
It might be easier to make a gun that does combination attacks though. That way, the individual elements don't have to be as powerful but can combine into some crazy shit like Kakuzu or third hokage.
 
We didn't start the fire
Your name is Kagutsuchi Takehiko.

You are the third son of the Fire Daimyo. Even though you are the third son your mother isn't the same as your older half-brothers. You are just not made from the same stock.

Your older brothers are spoiled rotten nobles, always being waited on hand and foot, and never making any effort.

You are different. You are ambitious. One day you will make a name for yourself. You feel it deep inside of you. This certainly that flows like fire in your veins.

One day you manage to convince your father to gift you a piece of property for your twelfth birthday, so that you may prove your worth as a son, as a noble, and as a leader. Even though sometimes you doubt it wasn't a trick of the light, you think that in that moment your father saw something in you when you said that.

When you arrive at your estate weeks later you couldn't be more ready and eager.

[]Your estate is on flat land. Plains of grass loom as far as the eye can see.
-It is almost completely devoid of special features. Bad events are somewhat limited in scope. Natural disasters or wild animals are practically unheard of.
-People live in a loose collection of individual houses, living off of the land. It's easy to expand farming, but it would also be easy to use this land to build.
-Strangers sometimes pass through here when they travel towards more important destinations in Land of Fire. Your advisors will be recruited from this folk. You should be able to hire merchants, vagabonds or strange types on short notice without having tosearch for them far and wide.

[]Hashirama made his mark on the Land of Fire when he created it's forests. They beat with his heartbeat until this day.
-What most don't know is that some of Hashirama's forests grow on natural chakra leylines. Prolonged exposure has strange effects on life. Giant animals and more can be found here. Beware of them. Those who are brave enough to live here for multiple generations suffer from mutations and in time will turn into new minor clans or maybe even more.
-Almost nobody dares to live in such a forest. Not many survive. You would have to heavily incentivise living here to set off the risk. People who live here willingly are hermits or hunters and don't make a big economical impact. You'll lose some of your income.
-You'll need to hire servants and woodsmen are a strangely good choice. You'd have to be badass or crazy to live here, and either one has their uses. You could also pay city folk to settle here, but the dangers might be too much for some who aren't courageous enough.

[]It is a seaside village. The small natural harbor is sometimes used by fishermen, smugglers and even pirates.
-The small amount of useful land prevents farmers from settling here. Most food comes from fishing.
-Pirates from Land of Water and even some Fire natives are a local menace. You'll probably have to handle them from time to time. Especially if you make the land prosperous enough.
-Access to water makes for an excellent future trading spot. You should be able to hire merchants, smugglers, pirates or other shady types to your cause.


AN: This choice will impact your starting advisors drafted from the local populace (You'll automatically start with six somewhat ok peopletotal, maybe even one better than average. Among them will be your Ninja Monk and he'll automatically take the role best suited to him). You can also search for better minions later on. All lands are viable economically, they just all require different things to make them profitable and come with different risks. After this vote we are in full swing. Treat this as turn 0.
 
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[x]It is a seaside village. The small natural harbor is sometimes used by fishermen, smugglers and even pirates.


port port port port

TRADE!
 
[X]It is a seaside village. The small natural harbor is sometimes used by fishermen, smugglers and even pirates.
 
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[X]Your estate is on flat land. Plains of grass loom as far as the eye can see.
 
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[X]Hashirama made his mark on the Land of Fire when he created it's forests. They beat with his heartbeat until this day.
 
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[X]It is a seaside village. The small natural harbor is sometimes used by fishermen, smugglers and even pirates.

I feel that having to deal with pirates and bandits is more than worth having an excellent location for a trading port :)
 
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