Let's Play Every Final Fantasy Game In Order Of Release [Now Playing: Final Fantasy Tactics]

A model swap is exactly the same process in full 3D as 2D...?
A 3d model is not something that can be sketched though. You can have a 3d model be copied, but even aside form the complications of coding a 3d combat environment where you can add literally anything to the battlefield, the intuitive connection between ability and effect which exists in the 2d game would be lost.
 
A 3d model is not something that can be sketched though. You can have a 3d model be copied, but even aside form the complications of coding a 3d combat environment where you can add literally anything to the battlefield, the intuitive connection between ability and effect which exists in the 2d game would be lost.
What?
You just swap out the model component in the 'Relm' entity...?

E: The (not actually because game dev is an enormous kludge at the best of times, but in theory) industry standard for games development is an ECS framework — Entity-Component-System. It is trivially easy to swap things that already exist around in such a framework.

E2: If summoner from FFXIV had the player model disappear on 82+ summons, it would be exactly this (the fine details such as model placement are not an issue).
 
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A 3d model is not something that can be sketched though. You can have a 3d model be copied, but even aside form the complications of coding a 3d combat environment where you can add literally anything to the battlefield, the intuitive connection between ability and effect which exists in the 2d game would be lost.

You're once again conflating 2D with turn-based combat without positioning.

Sketch would be trivially easy to do in Persona 5 (which is 3D) because... it's literally just Persona power use, which is obviously already done, you just use the enemy model instead of actual Personas.

There could be some kinks with attack animations, and some Shadows are reliant on staying on the ground to look right, but overall it shouldn't be much harder to do than the baseline game.
 
…I think I prefer FFV's job system, though. It was… cleaner.

OK this is super petty, but since I love FF5 and kinda hate FF6, and love job systems, this is giving me a shot of delicious schadenfreude.

Why do I "kinda hate" FF6? Well, we just got there.
Also, Kefka is about to try out his special new ability:

He can turn espers to magicite.

There's no explanation for this or even any special Magitek gizmo, he just raises his hands over his head and create a point of light which flies towards an esper and instantly turns them into magicite, starting with Yura.
Yep.
The espers come down to engage Kefka, but it's pointless. He absorbs their strongest magic, directly healing from the damage before turning them to magicite one by one.
Yep.
And now Kefka shows up and he can just… Snap his fingers and turn them all to magicite against their will while shrugging off their magic?
YEP. HE DOES THAT.

It's so, so, so insultingly stupid. This is the dumbest bullshit twist I've ever seen in my life, and I'm suspicious of JRPG plots in general because they're so often stuffed with bullshit twists. I don't know how the game goes from this point on, because I quit the instant this ABSOLUTE HORSESHIT happened.

*huff huff*

OK, but I guess I'm sort of curious, now that I've come this far. What comes next?
Edgar: Yeah, that'd definitely be a crime… I better just forget about it.
It gets worse!?

Dude. FUCK THIS GAME.
 
Article: Edgar: Yeah, that'd definitely be a crime… I better just forget about it.
Oof, this would be uncomfortable if he were just finding out that she was only 15/16 instead of 18+. HOW DO YOU LOOK AT A TEN YEAR OLD AND SEE ANYTHING BUT "CHILD"?! Then again, this is anime/JRPG-land, maybe it's normal for young women to look like prepubescent girls here or vice versa? No… I can't even…
 
This is the point where Sakaguchi putting different team members in charge of writting different scenes instead of a dedicated person or team for the whole stumbled. The scenario as a unit (from arriving to town until leaving after the betrayal) is good! The details and how it plays with the rest of the game... well, choices were made. Some hold up, others not so much.
 
This is the point where Sakaguchi putting different team members in charge of writting different scenes instead of a dedicated person or team for the whole stumbled. The scenario as a unit (from arriving to town until leaving after the betrayal) is good! The details and how it plays with the rest of the game... well, choices were made. Some hold up, others not so much.

Wait, this was written by a bunch of disconnected teams with no actual plan to tie it all together or writing bible to make sure it made sense? Well, that would certainly explain things.

I also disagree that the scenario is good. 'every single thing you've done so far in-game is rendered completely worthless and pointless in a totally nonsensical way' is not, actually, good writing.
 
So.

Sketch.

It's the third Blue Magic in this game. When used on an opponent, it either misses or succeeds, in which case it randomly uses one of two abilities allocated to that opponent against them. And… that's it, I guess. It has the benefit of simplicity and of not requiring grinding, but it's another of those 'either you know what all the Sketches do and which enemies give one or you essentially have a randomizer that outputs unpredictable attacks each turn'.

My impression was that Relm's Sketch isn't Blue Magic as such, but rather FFVI's version of Beastmaster. You're not learning enemy moves as such, since Relm doesn't have a persistent sketchbook she can call back upon. Instead, you use the critters you're facing at that precise moment for one-off ability usage, meaning you theoretically have to use what you get, and nothing from before or after.

Of course, as mentioned, there's not really much point in doing so, due to Relm being much better as a direct mage.
 
My impression was that Relm's Sketch isn't Blue Magic as such, but rather FFVI's version of Beastmaster. You're not learning enemy moves as such, since Relm doesn't have a persistent sketchbook she can call back upon. Instead, you use the critters you're facing at that precise moment for one-off ability usage, meaning you theoretically have to use what you get, and nothing from before or after.

Of course, as mentioned, there's not really much point in doing so, due to Relm being much better as a direct mage.
Yep. Relm is pretty much the FFVI iteration of the beastmaster class. It's a bit more streamlined now that catch and release commands are being used at the same time through sketch. Though any special moves the sketched monster uses are reliant on it's own stats and not Relms so I've had more then a few disappointments when I thought sketch pulled out a powerful spell or special attack and the end results were just underwhelming. It's pretty limited and circumstantial.

Yeah, unfortunately sketch is just bad. Not a good showing for the beastmaster class.

Though in time, Relm should find a relic that can change her sketch command to something a good deal better.

What Relm does have however is the best base Magic stat in the game. Yes, even better than Terra's.
 
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I mean, the fundamental issue is that there is only so much unique things you can do within the setup of ATB row vs row combat, so it's no wonder the game uses variations on the theme from time to time rather than something completely new. Ultimately, Edgar's Tools are just magic he buys instead of learning, and Sabin's Blitz is just magic with extra input.

I do think that the game is good at giving abilities unique enough gimmicks to make them memorable and different, even if it does result in some of them being duds or annoying to use.

Ultimately, I feel that FFV job system is more elegant, but FFVI abilities stick in your memory better and help define the characters even when the plot fails them.
 
For better or for worse, I'd consider this past stretch to be the game's storytelling nadir, hands down. I'm usually pretty forgiving of the sort of narrative contrivances needed to make even the simplest RPG plot move forward, but even as a wee bab playing FFVI for the first time, I could tell that the entire section ranging from immediately after the Imperial Banquet up to Leo's death felt really clunky and unsatisfying. Like, there's a lot of individually good-to-great bits, but they're all kludged together in a way that feels like a bunch of writers sitting around a table collectively shrugging their shoulders and realizing they're going to have to take a hacksaw to the plot in order to connect parts B and C of the narrative.

I guess you can just rationalize the most egregious bits of it away that Kefka's been juicing hard on the magicite between each appearance, but irrc there's not even a throway line as to how he can just ice 20 espers at a time now.

Everything after this bit though, imo, is much, much better.
 
Honestly, this is one of the big points which gave me my opinion about the game having very bad pacing.

As in, it's not like the sequence itself is unsalvageable; there is an ideal version of the plot where the time between the awakening Terra and the Esper's attacks on Vesper is a bit longer, giving the story a bit more room to foreshadow things and the characters some more development.

It's not like there's no justification - as was pointed out in the read, Banon immediately jumping to "let's ask the Espers for help" was a bit extreme, and Celes was just captured by the Empire and she has a "maybe-maybe not" thing going on with Locke. I'd say there's room enough there to say that, with the Magicite and Trance Terra on their side, the rebels should try and bring the fight to the Empire on their own; make it another "split party" sequence like we had before, with team A (including Terra) attacking some Empire fortress (maybe the port city, to open the Empire to a sea-based assault), while another team (likely led by Locke) going to save Celes again.

That'd give Kefka a chance to show up and clown against one of the two groups, making some comment to the effect that "the Esper transforming into Magicite at the research center gave Cid a lot of new data on how to force that process!", or maybe "we were able to do much by studying the Magicite that we took from Celes", and maybe revealing an ability to force Terra out of trance. That way, even with Locke's team rescuing Celes, the rebels is still forced on the backfoot and then Banon's "let's talk to the Espers" can be seen as a matter of desperation. And maybe Cyan can have some lines, depending on which team he's on, developing his connection with the Empire a bit.

With those beats in the middle, then things can proceed as in the game, but then when Kefka shows up here, his ability to take out the Espers can be much more justified, and maybe a line could be thrown in about "they struck Vesper before we had time to finish developing the countermeasures, so the Emperor tricked you to give us the time to complete the work, and also used you to get all the Espers in one place so we could take them all down at once", which would then sell this whole scene a lot better.

But the game didn't give us something like that, instead rushing through plot points so fast that there's no time for the narrative to breathe, and what could have been a brilliant justification for the whole "working together with the Empire" bit and made the Emperor's planning more impressive is instead reduced to a very bad sequence that comes out of nowhere. And, again, everything in FFVI keeps coming out of nowhere - it's only that, while that might work for the Doomtrain sequence, the Opera, or the submersible castle, it mostly doesn't; this instance was the worst about it, but FFVI's main strength (that it overwhelms the player with an endless string of absurd stuff) is really just masking its greatest flaw (that overwhelming the player is necessary to hide how shoddily the plot holds itself together), which makes for a game that is as often good as it is bad, and is mostly just inconsistent when you consider it with some insight.

Well... that's my take at least. We'll see what @Omicron's opinion is once we see the rest of what the game has in store.
 
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I think Egleris is simply arguing that in a world of 2d sprites, it is easy to suspend ones disbelief about a 2d sketch attacking someone.
I don't think that fully works, because 'artist makes art that can attack people' isn't unknown. Like, it doesn't remain a 2d sketch probably, but that would be the magic making it something more.
 
I'm going to withhold judgment until we find out if it turns out there was a major breakthrough in the Empire that explains this, but it's a swerve.
I'm going to blame Cid based solely on the fact he was taking a bunch of notes and analyzing the Magicite conversion process earlier and he's either a monstrous hypocrite or the dumbest, most gullible man alive, probably both. I think he even said something about how cool and interesting it was, so you know he's been studying it in the meantime.
 
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I'm going to blame Cid based solely on the fact he was taking a bunch of notes and analyzing the Magicite conversion process earlier and he's either a monstrous hypocrite or the dumbest, most gullible man alive, probably both.
Makes willfully starving him to death to see the better cutscene rather cathartic, doesn't it?
 
Wait, this was written by a bunch of disconnected teams with no actual plan to tie it all together or writing bible to make sure it made sense? Well, that would certainly explain things.

I also disagree that the scenario is good. 'every single thing you've done so far in-game is rendered completely worthless and pointless in a totally nonsensical way' is not, actually, good writing.
I meant as a standalone unit that you can insert in a story, preferably one with a plot that didn't omit the necessary beats that turned it in the final game as the lowest point. You can of course disagree, but I wasn't implying that it was good as presented (I already said it wasn't).
 
I need to emphasize that Shadow just did the 'anime flash step past your opponent, then after a second they all fall into pieces' against a bunch of fire. What a dude.

Shadow then says he'll get everyone out of there using a smoke bomb, which. HOW. HOW, SHADOW. HOW IS THIS GOING TO HELP. DO YOU THINK THE BURNING HOUSE IS GOING TO LOOK AWAY OR SOMETHING?!

Fun fact! Most people in house fires do not die of burning, but of smoke inhalation.

I'm thinking too hard about this. Point is, Shadow throws a smoke bomb, and next thing you know, everyone is home safe.

Shadow: "It had to look cool, alright? Don't give me that look."
Interceptor: "Woof! Where the fuck where yo- Woof! I swear to God Shadow!"
Shadow: "...I was sleeping. But did I look cool though?"
Interceptor: "I will shit in your ninja mask. Woof. Piss all over your weapons. Fuck you dude. You fucking waited till the last second, so you could do a cool ninja slash on the flames while the child was chocking Shadow! Woof!"
Shadow: "So it was cool. Alright!"
 
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I've read that Chrono Cross' party size was originally going to be even bigger. A proposed mechanic in the game for instance was being able to recruit any town NPC, and even after that was removed, the playable cast size was scaled down from over 60.

I was busy today and thus haven't even read the update that released since this post, but I am pretty sure this idea ended up in the Octopath series in a really cool form.
There you only have eight party members, but you can actually recruit every NPC as follower. Recruitment will have costs attached to jt and sometimes requires sidequests to solve their plight before they are freed up for adventure. Once you recruit them they turn into like 4 charges of an attack specific to them.
Most people living in the world are useless, but if you spend time on actually getting to know the villages you can totally find some that are nice panic buttons providing strong AOE at a cost paid upfront or NPCs that cover niche elements to round out your party against nasty foes. Once the charges run out they just return to their regular lives, though you can always show up in their village another time to rope them into adventure once again.
 
Alright, bad luck to have an update on a day I'm busy so most of my takes have probably made the rounds by now, but WHY SHOULD THAT STOP ME?! :V

...learned about a magical mountain range ...

DARE YOU ENTER THIS MAGICAL

ULTROS, YOU UPSTART CALAMARI, HAVEN'T I KICKED YOUR ASS ENOUGH FOR A LIFETIME?

It's good to see you getting into the spirit of things! :V

Kid's got ego, I'll give her that. She asks Ultros his name, and Ultros gets offended that she would even dare to ask.

In a move that really shows the game's theatrical inspirations, Locke then leaves the party order and turns to the camera to address the audience, Greek Chorus like: "A pintsize virtuoso and an egotistical octopus… Do I even want to know what's next?"

Well, what's next is that Relm asks Ultros to pose for a portrait and the octopus refuses rather rudely, leading Relm to turn around and threaten to jump off a bridge to her death.

I think Locke's Greek Chorus moment sort of recontextualizes that initial 'Locke and Edgar freak out about Terra's magic' scene to be a minor fourth wall break as well. They weren't just swooning, they were swooning for the benefit of the audience because of how cool she was, and then Terra makes them get back in-universe.

This is such a wildly over-the-top escalation it's legitimately hilarious, especially because everyone else's reaction is to bully Ultros into accepting to have his portrait drawn.

It wasn't mentioned so you may have missed it, but it's not... a reaction, really. Just before that screen shot Terra is next to Relm where she ran to at first, and then both sprites nod in turn with their backs to the screen. We're supposed to interpret this as whispering, and then after that, comes the bullying.

This whole thing was Relm's idea.

God that kid is such a brat.

The party now completely surrounded, they prepare to fight - until one esper steps forward, calling for everybody to stop.

I always appreciated that bit of gallantry where they all unspokenly protect Relm (who listens for once!) when it looks like the shit's about to hit the fan.

Relm makes a highly inappropriate comment for her age; Locke reacts with a shocked sprite and Celes with a bashful sprite. Relm laughs. Kefka laughs. The end!

Such a beautiful sitcom moment! Great ending to a great game. Shame it seemed a bit abrupt, but sometimes if you just sit everyone down and talk it out you can come to a surprising resolution. Good lesson for us all!

Here's something I might have forgotten to tell you before: when visiting Vector, there's incidental dialogue in which people mention that, among the reason why Leo is so popular, is that he's the only one of the Empire's generals (Kefka and Celes being the others) who isn't augmented. He has no magic, only pure warrior skill.

So, remember that time many updates ago when I made a remark that it was kinda funny where FFVI's setting draws the line of 'magic' because Sabin can straight up shoot Kamehamehas out of his hand?

Yeah, so, Leo has a special ability called 'Shock.'

It's him swinging his sword so hard the entire screen explodes.

That's not all. You may not have tried Leo's basic Fight command. It's a four-hit combo.

Leo has Rapid Fire.

But apparently not. Do you want to know how they managed to escape the capital before whatever trap the Empire had prepared for them was sprung?

A lady was bringing them tea and Edgar flirted with her and she blurted out the whole plan to him.

Whether because she was so flustered by his incredible charm or because it was all she could think of to distract him and draw his attention elsewhere, we might never know.

I know you keep trying to read the worst in all Edgar's lines (joke or not), but this really is supposed to be a 'when not confronted with someone with deadened emotions, Edgar really is quite suave' moment. More than that, it also serves as one of the chief bits of evidence for the interpretation that Edgar womanizes in part because he enjoys it, but it is also something he plays up to his advantage so that people underestimate him as some foppish noble.

They made Leo a whole-ass monument with a sword stuck in the stone and Terra put down a flower bouquet before his tombstone.

I guess you get a lot forgiven for turning around and doing a heroic last stand at the last second.



So, Leo. Let's talk about Leo.

We've talked a bunch about Leo and the Rommel 'noble fascist' archetype in fiction in this thread. And I think, ultimately, I have a positive view on Leo's arc, because here's the thing.

Yeah, aside from a single conversation where he says he's 'as bad as Kefka,' the game mostly treats Leo as a paragon whom everyone respects and trusts, even his enemies, who has words of wisdom to share with Terra and the espers, and under whom the Empire would likely be well-steered, even though he's a general of the Empire who oversaw brutal, unprovoked wars of aggression, massacres, forced conscription of conquered populations, and who by carelessness or stupidity left Kefka in charge to commit the genocide of Doma.

But the thing is that in the end, Leo was wrong. He was a fool, and he was a tool. He failed to recognize Kefka's evil and trusted him with command, he failed to see through the Emperor's true motives, he naively worked towards a 'peace' that was only a cover story and helped bring the espers into Kefka's grasp. The crucial difference between Leo and some other 'one good man in the evil empire' archetype is that Leo fails to actually make anything better, and in fact makes everything worse against his will. He gives the Empire a mask, a patsy who genuinely means the stuff about peace, because the fact that he believes it makes it all the easier for others to be fooled by it.

Kefka first killed Leo's soldiers because the Emperor probably packed the Magitek ship with Leo's men so he could remove them all at the same time, before they had a chance to splinter off into a rebellious faction.

Hell, that whole 'talk to soldiers before dinner' thing? That was probably so the Emperor could identify loyalists and purge the rest of the army.

Yeah, Leo's arc definitely seems intended to be read as tragedy and I don't think that quite works if the game tried to frame him from the whole... antifa lense for lack of a better phrase that a bunch of the thread seemed to want. Now, whether his arc should be a tragedy (I'd guess that a lot of you would say 'no') is certainly an area ripe for discussion, but outside of just giving Leo more screen time, I think that what's here works for the story they're going for.

Lightening up for a moment, as for the whole monument thing, he not only had that effect on the characters, but there was many a playground rumor back in the day that there was some secret way for Leo to survive and join the party. Leo was the original version of the... Final Fantasy VII rumor of similar sort. Perhaps needlessly trying to avoid spoilers there. :V

FFVI actually gives fuel for that sort of fire with how much random shit is tucked away in nooks and crannies of the world and combat system. You can go multiple entire playthroughs without ever seeing one of the Desperation Attack limit breaks, for example. I can't remember if you've seen one or not yet, Omicron? I hit one in my own playthrough of this version of the game back in the phantom forest when I got blasted by the diabolic whistle move, locking out control of my whole party only for Cyan to bust out Tsubame Gaeshi and one-shot the boss just before I wiped. Very cinematic. :V

Edgar tells us we need to rethink our plan, and the group decides to head back to the airship; Strago asks if he can follow, which leads to Relm demanding she come along as well.

Sabin, in a moment of hilarious hypocrisy for the guy who brought Gau into the group, says 'we can't had kids getting in the way!' and Relm calls him an 'overfed muscle-man,' then threatens to draw his picture, which causes everyone who was in the mountain party to beg her to stop and not do this terrible thing.

Okay, 'people act horrified whenever this kid threatens to draw a sketch of someone, to everyone's confusion' is a pretty funny bit. Strago relents, and agrees for Relm to come along, though not without first one of the most baffling exchanges in the game.

In Sabin's defense, Gau is a few years older than Relm is, right at the age where old-style rites of passage would start to be applicable to him.

It is a good gag, though.

Relm I really feel you need an adult here.

I AM AN ADUUUULLLT!

Relm: "What's wrong, lover boy?"
Edgar: "...How old are you?"
Relm: "Ten… why?"
Here, Edgar says nothing but turns around and does a 'waving his hand above his head' motion.
Relm: "Weirdo. I'm going on ahead, okay?"
Edgar, now alone: "They grow up faster than you think… You'll break a few hearts when you're older, kid."

Now. This is such a truly weird exchange, right? I mean it has bad vibes. It has very bad vibes, but it's not, like, explicit? "They grow up faster than you think" in this context doesn't seem to make sense, right? It's something you'd say about how a kid you already know has grown up faster than you imagined because you still think of them as small, right? And the oblique reference to how attractive she… will be when she grows up? Already is??? Is so weird.

I suppose you don't have kids of your own? Because that absolutely makes sense in context. Particularly if you interact with a lot of kids, not just friends and family. This is absolutely something that has been said by me and others about various kids over my years. Some kids are dumb as rocks, it's true, but precocious kids are a trope for a reason. Ever since her introduction Relm has been running roughshod over basically every adult she's met. Like, let's check the tally just from your post:

Kid's got ego, I'll give her that.

God that kid is such a brat.

Relm makes a highly inappropriate comment for her age; Locke reacts with a shocked sprite and Celes with a bashful sprite.

Okay, 'people act horrified whenever this kid threatens to draw a sketch of someone, to everyone's confusion' is a pretty funny bit. Strago relents, and agrees for Relm to come along

And remember that I pointed out that the whole 'emotionally blackmail Ultros' thing was all Relm's doing. She's been in the roster like 30 seconds and she's done nothing but get her way. "You'll break a few hearts when you're older" isn't meant to be a reference to her looks, but to her ability to, at age 10, manipulate everyone around her. Edgar is having a moment of sympathy for all the people he imagines will be wrapped around her finger when she's older, and presumably better at it.

I'm staring at that exchange and I just. I have to know. I'm going to do it.

I'm going to look up a direct translation of the original script.

Article: Edgar: Yeah, that'd definitely be a crime… I better just forget about it.

But yeah, my explanation I just gave is definitely a change from the original line. But it's a change for the better. There're a lot of interesting nuances between all the various translations, both official and fan versions, of this game, but this line in particular probably has the largest delta on the YIKES factor between versions. The original Japanese, as you've discovered, is basically peak YIKES but even the GBA version was something along the lines of "Here's hoping you're still around in 8 years". The original SNES line was much closer to this Pixel Remaster version, with Edgar saying "You've grown up entirely too fast! Lighten up, okay?!" again showing the superiority of Woolsey's version. :V

Also, there's been other odd phrasing in the game and you haven't gone and looked it up (or at least told us about it) so someone had to have tipped you off, right?
 
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…yeah, no prize for guessing Relm didn't care about any order she was given and wanted to come with us anyway. Nor does the group spot her trailing them (terrible form, guys; this is why you need Shadow).
To be fair, Shadow would be too busy brooding to say anything about it :V
ULTROS, YOU UPSTART CALAMARI, HAVEN'T I KICKED YOUR ASS ENOUGH FOR A LIFETIME?
Sorry Omi, we gotta have our replacement for Gilgamesh!

What do you mean Ultros doesn't even compare to how cool and awesome Gilgamesh was as a character, since he's literally a 2-bit perverted octopus showing up at the worst possible times instead of the fun-loving doof who actually works for the enemy big bad?
Kid's got ego, I'll give her that. She asks Ultros his name, and Ultros gets offended that she would even dare to ask.

In a move that really shows the game's theatrical inspirations, Locke then leaves the party order and turns to the camera to address the audience, Greek Chorus like: "A pintsize virtuoso and an egotistical octopus… Do I even want to know what's next?"

Well, what's next is that Relm asks Ultros to pose for a portrait and the octopus refuses rather rudely, leading Relm to turn around and threaten to jump off a bridge to her death.

This is such a wildly over-the-top escalation it's legitimately hilarious, especially because everyone else's reaction is to bully Ultros into accepting to have his portrait drawn.
For a ten year old, Relm is masterful at manipulating the people around her, that's for sure. Pint-sized little sociopath, love her for it.
So.

Sketch.

It's the third Blue Magic in this game. When used on an opponent, it either misses or succeeds, in which case it randomly uses one of two abilities allocated to that opponent against them. And… that's it, I guess. It has the benefit of simplicity and of not requiring grinding, but it's another of those 'either you know what all the Sketches do and which enemies give one or you essentially have a randomizer that outputs unpredictable attacks each turn'.

Final Fantasy VI iterates a lot, I can certainly give it that. Each character has their own custom mechanic - more than one, when you consider that several characters can have their ability changed by the right Relic. It's definitely a game that's willing to push the boundary, and connecting each character's unique ability to their personality and history while still giving everybody access to the same Magicite and Magic system is a really interesting compromise between FFIV's character-driven approach that had some severe limitations when the mechanics pushed against the boundaries of what could be done with a character that was interesting (see Cecil spending the late game just spamming Attack and Kain just using Jump forever) and FFV's flexibility and customization.

…I think I prefer FFV's job system, though. It was… cleaner.
Yeah, Sketch is very much a failed attempt at making a cool character ability. Genuinely, it's probably the worst character ability in the game, and easily drags Relm down to being one of the worst party members in the game (if not for one little thing we'll get into later).
In a twist that makes a lot of sense in retrospect, the espers we're seeing here aren't some generic sampling of all espers, they're specifically the young generation; all espers are forbidden from crossing the Sealed Gate, but it was they who had the reckless temperament of youth and decided to ignore the warning and try to rescue their friends abducted by the Empire.

Unfortunately, as soon as they crossed the threshold, they were overcome by the same overpowering emotions as Terra, and lost control of her powers just like her, only to significantly more dramatic results.
This does say a bit more about Terra's emotional issues, and how maybe it is supposed to stem mostly from her half-esper side. I still like the idea that it has more to do with her upbringing/potential asexuality though.
Oh boy. I really don't like that phrasing.
It really does feel like the game jumps pretty far from "Vector is full of loyal citizens who are all for the Empire taking over the world" to "Oh no not those poor Vesper citizens who are totally innocent and never did anything wrong". Guess it's just one more point in why this little arc turns out to be one of the more undercooked bits of FFVI.
Wait what was that last part?
Even if the rest of the upcoming scene is maximum Diablos Ex Machina, I do have to give credit - having the "everyone laughs, scene end" be interrupted by that oh so recognizable laugh of Kefka's is very well done. You mentioned the stage play look of FFVI earlier in this update, and I can perfectly picture this supposed ending scene with the whole cast standing around laughing when suddenly Kefka's laughter echoes in as well as he enters stage left.
Kefka sets the Magitek troops to light the village on fire while blasting the suddenly hapless espers with his magiciting beams of ???, while the entire party lies knocked out.

The only one who has withstood the initial onslaught and is still standing… is General Leo.
Okay, props for that character switch, I genuinely wasn't expecting it. Also it was always implicit in his sprite but with his face portrait it's even more clear that Leo is, I think, the first clearly Black character in all of Final Fantasy? Interesting choice to make him the One Good Man in the evil empire.
Gonna be honest, I legitimately missed the fact that he was black entirely every time I played this game, until it was pointed out directly in this thread.

I am not an observant fellow.
I really love how the game keeps playing with the format of the battle as a narrative setpiece.
I'd say it's one of the biggest advantages of the game combining the overworld sprites and combat sprites - it means they were able to be much more detailed with both, and its a huge benefit to being able to play with the game's systems in battle in ways unheard of in the previous Final Fantasy games. This isn't the only SNES game to play with things like that, to be fair, the oft-mentioned Chrono Trigger also uses the same sprites for both types of gameplay, but FFVI does make very good use of it.
So, yeah.

This entire scene is completely reliant on Kefka's sudden and unexplained ability to no sell the entire esper population while converting them to magicite en masse. If you buy that it's a sudden dramatic twist for the worse, and if you don't it's just... what?

The way Ramuh initially presents magicite is that the Empire cannot obtain the full power of espers, because it only occurs when given willingly by turning oneself into magicite; every esper we then see turning to magicite is doing so willingly upon seeing their death approach and choosing to use it to help the heroes. And what we know about espers is that their power was used to lay waste to the world once, and to destroy Vector and the Imperial armies not long ago.

And now Kefka shows up and he can just… Snap his fingers and turn them all to magicite against their will while shrugging off their magic?

I'm going to withhold judgment until we find out if it turns out there was a major breakthrough in the Empire that explains this, but it's a swerve.
And so, we reach what a lot of people in the thread have already said (and I agree) is a serious low point in the story: just... Kefka popping up with unexplained powers to push the plot forward by ignoring the conventions of earlier bits of the story like how Magicite is formed. Not to mention it's got a good old side of "oh yeah btw despite having the entire party at his mercy Kefka leaves them alone, even though they've humiliated him personally multiple times in the past."
So, Leo. Let's talk about Leo.

We've talked a bunch about Leo and the Rommel 'noble fascist' archetype in fiction in this thread. And I think, ultimately, I have a positive view on Leo's arc, because here's the thing.

Yeah, aside from a single conversation where he says he's 'as bad as Kefka,' the game mostly treats Leo as a paragon whom everyone respects and trusts, even his enemies, who has words of wisdom to share with Terra and the espers, and under whom the Empire would likely be well-steered, even though he's a general of the Empire who oversaw brutal, unprovoked wars of aggression, massacres, forced conscription of conquered populations, and who by carelessness or stupidity left Kefka in charge to commit the genocide of Doma.

But the thing is that in the end, Leo was wrong. He was a fool, and he was a tool. He failed to recognize Kefka's evil and trusted him with command, he failed to see through the Emperor's true motives, he naively worked towards a 'peace' that was only a cover story and helped bring the espers into Kefka's grasp. The crucial difference between Leo and some other 'one good man in the evil empire' archetype is that Leo fails to actually make anything better, and in fact makes everything worse against his will. He gives the Empire a mask, a patsy who genuinely means the stuff about peace, because the fact that he believes it makes it all the easier for others to be fooled by it.

Kefka first killed Leo's soldiers because the Emperor probably packed the Magitek ship with Leo's men so he could remove them all at the same time, before they had a chance to splinter off into a rebellious faction.

Hell, that whole 'talk to soldiers before dinner' thing? That was probably so the Emperor could identify loyalists and purge the rest of the army.
I think... this is a pretty fair final assessment of Leo, to be honest. We've all harped on about how being the "one honorable man" doesn't mean much when your honor has you following a murderous fascist Empire and working with people like Kefka, and doubly so when one of your fellow generals was actually able to look on it all and defect like Celes, but at the same time despite all that respect he gets... Leo accomplishes nothing of note. He fails, miserably, and dies stabbed in the back by Kefka and likely on the orders of the very same Emperor that Leo has spent all this time following loyally.

Kind of a fitting end, even if everyone making a sad gravestone for him might feel a bit undeserved.
Now. This is such a truly weird exchange, right? I mean it has bad vibes. It has very bad vibes, but it's not, like, explicit? "They grow up faster than you think" in this context doesn't seem to make sense, right? It's something you'd say about how a kid you already know has grown up faster than you imagined because you still think of them as small, right? And the oblique reference to how attractive she… will be when she grows up? Already is??? Is so weird.

I'm staring at that exchange and I just. I have to know. I'm going to do it.

I'm going to look up a direct translation of the original script.

Article: Edgar: Yeah, that'd definitely be a crime… I better just forget about it.


I'm going to go lie down for a bit.
And here it is: the absolute lowest point of Edgar's characterization, that I've been... well, whatever the opposite of waiting with bated breath is, for the entire playthrough.

I like Edgar, he's a neat character with things like his absolute loyalty to his friends and his people, the entire coinflip rigging between him and Sabin, and the character flaw of being an absolute flirt that he still sometimes turns to his advantage in situations like escaping the Empire off-screen here.

So, personally? I'm just going to take this updated Pixel Remaster version of his line as a comment on how Relm is probably going to grow up capable of manipulating people even better than she already does, take that one kid he promised to marry back in Figaro as a "haha sure whatever kid", and leave it at that so we don't get... well, lolicon Edgar.

Thanks Japan.
See, until the translation was brought up, I thought the exchange was supposed to be, like, Edgar realising this was his secret daughter who he'd hidden away or something, not... that.
It's a line that's had a few different translations between versions, ranging from the original Japanese squick, to "You've grown up entirely too fast! Lighten up, okay?!" in the original SNES translation which can be viewed more as thinking a child shouldn't be getting this involved in the whole situation, to the one we got in the Remaster which is I think, pretty fair.

Still will always be that original Japanese/some later English versions translation hanging over our heads, sadly.
Wait, this was written by a bunch of disconnected teams with no actual plan to tie it all together or writing bible to make sure it made sense? Well, that would certainly explain things.

I also disagree that the scenario is good. 'every single thing you've done so far in-game is rendered completely worthless and pointless in a totally nonsensical way' is not, actually, good writing.
I mean, the overall idea of "Emperor convinces Terra and some of the others to head off with his more honorable troops to find the Espers, then swoops in to take everything and eliminate Leo in one fell swoop?" That's a fair enough idea.

Problem is as its executed here is absolutely terrible, with Kefka showing up suddenly with the magical power just... disable Espers entirely and turn them into Magicite against established story beats, or the fact that the soldiers with him are apparently in super omega unbeatable magitek armor since if Leo tries to fight him they have the statblock of that unbeatable guardian protecting Vector from earlier in the game, or again how Kefka just leaves the downed party and bails after everything is said and done.

Anyways, enough about one of the lowest points in the game's story (and Edgar's entire character), let's talk Relm!

Relm is, bar none, probably the worst character in the entire game... if you don't take Magicite into consideration. She's got rods and a unique weapon class in Brushes which aren't particularly useful (basically just rods by a different name with less useful abilities), her armor is mostly crap other than getting one unique type she shares with Strago, and Sketch is, as discussed, a pretty garbage tier ability.

But then, you factor in Magicite, and Relm's one little secret comes to the forefront: She has the highest base magic in the entire game, even more than Terra (which is why I've always said Terra has one of the highest magic stats). Terra might end up higher if you've leveled the party a lot, but even so Relm is a great candidate to slap Zona Seeker on and pump up that magic stat so she's comparable to characters like Terra and Celes in raw magical power.

Doesn't quite bring her up as high in the rankings as those two since they have more options like Trance, Runic, and physical weapon and armor sets to augment their magical skills, but it does take Relm from Probably Dead Last to a fairly useful party member, if you're willing to put in the time.
 
What was the point score system at dinner with rewards handed out for performing well? I don't know. Maybe Gestahl just appreciates good manners that much even from people he's planning to murder. Maybe he gave us more if he felt like we were meeting him halfway because he thought it was a better way of selling the lie, whereas if we're uncooperative he would assume we don't trust him anyway and so not even bother to sell the con. I don't know.
It's part of old Japanese culture, being rude to someone can be seen as even worse than killing them.
 
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