Italia Divided - a Roman Alternate History Auest

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[X] Plan Reform
-[X] Increase Literacy: our nation could use more literacy for our citizens (more schools, mainly ones inspired by those at places like Athens, would pop up at Rome, greatly increasing literacy for its citizens by 210 bc)
-[X] Political Reform: we could really shake up our political system (reform would occur in the political system of Rome)
--[X] Keep our professional army and give them consistent pay and standardized equipment. Build military academies to train officers and allow veterans from our army to learn there for free. Limit the authority of the consuls to lead the army and allow governors to create provincial armies as long as they are smaller than the senate's army, defend Rome from invasions and don't attack each other. Owning, buying or selling humans are not allowed. Property rights should be protected and not be seized.

The military is an extension of politics right? :p
Let's deal with Rome's problems before they become one.
 
[X] Develop the Gladius: we could follow the Greek example of the Xiphos and develop our own swords (the gladius would be developed and ready to be used in battle by 225 bc)

[X] Increase Literacy: our nation could use more literacy for our citizens (more schools, mainly ones inspired by those at places like Athens, would pop up at Rome, greatly increasing literacy for its citizens by 210 bc)
 
[x] Develop the Gladius: we could follow the Greek example of the Xiphos and develop our own swords (the gladius would be developed and ready to be used in battle by 225 bc)
[x] Increase Literacy: our nation could use more literacy for our citizens (more schools, mainly ones inspired by those at places like Athens, would pop up at Rome, greatly increasing literacy for its citizens by 210 bc)
 
Vote closed
  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by AstralFists on Sep 18, 2024 at 4:06 PM, finished with 13 posts and 10 votes.
    • [X] Increase Literacy: our nation could use more literacy for our citizens (more schools, mainly ones inspired by those at places like Athens, would pop up at Rome, greatly increasing literacy for its citizens by 210 bc)
      [X] Develop the Gladius: we could follow the Greek example of the Xiphos and develop our own swords (the gladius would be developed and ready to be used in battle by 225 bc)
      [X] Plan Reform
      -[X] Increase Literacy: our nation could use more literacy for our citizens (more schools, mainly ones inspired by those at places like Athens, would pop up at Rome, greatly increasing literacy for its citizens by 210 bc)
      -[X] Political Reform: we could really shake up our political system (reform would occur in the political system of Rome)
      --[X] Keep our professional army and give them consistent pay and standardized equipment. Build military academies to train officers and allow veterans from our army to learn there for free. Limit the authority of the consuls to lead the army and allow governors to create provincial armies as long as they are smaller than the senate's army, defend Rome from invasions and don't attack each other. Owning, buying or selling humans are not allowed. Property rights should be protected and not be seized.
      [X] Political Reform: we could really shake up our political system (reform would occur in the political system of Rome)
    Click to expand...


    Rolling for Etruscan Invasion: 65 (the Etruscan did not invade)
     
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  • Voting
    • Turn 12
  • Threadmarks
    • Turn 12
    230 bc
    ​
    Further innovations are ongoing in the Roman military with the development of the gladius, a weapon inspired by the xiphos and prove effective in short range combat, they would be developed and ready for battle in 225 bc, in other news, more schools, mainly those inspired by those in Athens, are being built in Rome, greatly increasing literacy rates, by 210 bc, the literacy rate among Roman citizens would be at 15%


    Internal Affairs: blah blah blah, gotta do stuff for citizens and the economy (select 2 choices)

    [ ] Expand the Military: we need to expand our military if we were to get involved in war again (Rome would strengthen and expand its military, allowing it to gain an edge should they enter war)

    [ ] Export More Stuff: it's time we start giving some of luxury goods to our allies (Rome would export some of its luxury goods present in the nation to its allies, mainly exporting stuff that their allies either don't have or only have a small quantity)

    [ ] Tear Down the Walls: the Second Pyrrhic War is over, we don't need these walls in our capital (the walls built on the capital of Rome during the Second Pyrrhic War would be removed, allowing the city of Rome to expand, at the cost of it being less fortified, incompatible with Keep the Walls)

    [ ] Keep the Walls: the walls would need to be up should the city of Rome be invaded (the walls built on the capital of Rome during the Second Pyrrhic War would stay, allowing it to remain fortified, incompatible with Tear Down the Walls)


    Lex Flaminia: in 232 bc, a tribune of the plebs by the name of Gaius Flaminius proposed a land reform known as the Lex Flaminia, basically, it asked to parcel lands in the currently underpopulated province of Lucania into smaller holdings for some of the poorer plebs to settle, the senate opposes this reform, mainly on the grounds of maintaining their material and political interests, whether or not the reform would pass would depend heavily on which side you stand with (select only 1 choice)

    [ ] Pass the Lex Flaminia: it is the responsibility of a politician to campaign for the common man (the Lex Flaminia would be passed, pleasing both Gaius Flaminius and the plebeians, but upsetting the senate, incompatible with Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)

    [ ] Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia: we wouldn't want to upset the senate, do we? (the Lex Flaminia would not be passed, pleasing the senate, but upsetting both the plebeians and Gaius Flaminius, incompatible with Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)

    [ ] Propose a Compromise: Write-In Vote (incompatible with Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia)


    Illyrian Piracy: Illyrian piracy has always have been a pain in the ass for the Romans ever since they started to get more involved in the Eastern Mediterranean, however that fact has only become more apparent during the reign of Queen Teuta, which started on 231 bc after the death of her husband Agron, you may either use force or diplomacy to put a stop to this (select only 1 choice)

    [ ] Use Force: we need to humble this madwoman (Rome would wage war on Illyria in order to put an end to the piracy problem, incompatible with Use Diplomacy)

    [ ] Use Diplomacy: it is best to use persuasion before violence (there's a 15% chance of the Romans managing persuading Queen Teuta to put an end to her policy of piracy, however, should it fail, Rome would wage war on Illyria anyway, incompatible with Use Force)
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Plan: I've seen this one before
    - [X] Expand the Military: we need to expand our military if we were to get involved in war again (Rome would strengthen and expand its military, allowing it to gain an edge should they enter war)
    - [X] Keep the Walls: the walls would need to be up should the city of Rome be invaded (the walls built on the capital of Rome during the Second Pyrrhic War would stay, allowing it to remain fortified, incompatible with Tear Down the Walls)
    - [X] Pass the Lex Flaminia: it is the responsibility of a politician to campaign for the common man (the Lex Flaminia would be passed, pleasing both Gaius Flaminius and the plebeians, but upsetting the senate, incompatible with Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)
    - [X] Use Force: we need to humble this madwoman (Rome would wage war on Illyria in order to put an end to the piracy problem, incompatible with Use Diplomacy)
     
    [X] Plan: Let's not start a two front war
    -[X] Export More Stuff: it's time we start giving some of luxury goods to our allies (Rome would export some of its luxury goods present in the nation to its allies, mainly exporting stuff that their allies either don't have or only have a small quantity)
    -[X] Keep the Walls: the walls would need to be up should the city of Rome be invaded (the walls built on the capital of Rome during the Second Pyrrhic War would stay, allowing it to remain fortified, incompatible with Tear Down the Walls)
    -[X] Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia: we wouldn't want to upset the senate, do we? (the Lex Flaminia would not be passed, pleasing the senate, but upsetting both the plebeians and Gaius Flaminius, incompatible with Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)
    -[X] Use Diplomacy: it is best to use persuasion before violence (there's a 15% chance of the Romans managing persuading Queen Teuta to put an end to her policy of piracy, however, should it fail, Rome would wage war on Illyria anyway, incompatible with Use Force)

    We will most likely go to war with the Illyrians anyway, I just want to see what our luck is like.

    As for Lex Flaminia
    Wikipedia said:
    Scholars have argued that opposition from the senate was due to the possibility of war with the Gauls since a settlement near Gallic territory may have seemed aggressive. This is what Polybius argues caused war with the Gauls seven years later. Roselaar also suggests that the Senones had not been completely eradicated and still occupied the land. Rome was already at war in several places and the senate may not have wanted to provoke another immediate conflict.
    Click to expand...
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    We would need to fight a rebellion and Illyrians if it lasts too long.
    I am not that opposed as long as we expand the army, this is just an option if we just want to fight the Illyrians and export stuff.
     
    [X] Entering a new Era
    -[X] Expand the Military: we need to expand our military if we were to get involved in war again (Rome would strengthen and expand its military, allowing it to gain an edge should they enter war)
    -[X] Export More Stuff: it's time we start giving some of luxury goods to our allies (Rome would export some of its luxury goods present in the nation to its allies, mainly exporting stuff that their allies either don't have or only have a small quantity)
    -[X] Pass the Lex Flaminia: it is the responsibility of a politician to campaign for the common man (the Lex Flaminia would be passed, pleasing both Gaius Flaminius and the plebeians, but upsetting the senate, incompatible with Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)
    -[X] Use Force: we need to humble this madwoman (Rome would wage war on Illyria in order to put an end to the piracy problem, incompatible with Use Diplomacy)
     
    [X] Entering a new Era
    -[X] Expand the Military: we need to expand our military if we were to get involved in war again (Rome would strengthen and expand its military, allowing it to gain an edge should they enter war)
    -[X] Export More Stuff: it's time we start giving some of luxury goods to our allies (Rome would export some of its luxury goods present in the nation to its allies, mainly exporting stuff that their allies either don't have or only have a small quantity)
    -[X] Pass the Lex Flaminia: it is the responsibility of a politician to campaign for the common man (the Lex Flaminia would be passed, pleasing both Gaius Flaminius and the plebeians, but upsetting the senate, incompatible with Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)
    -[X] Use Force: we need to humble this madwoman (Rome would wage war on Illyria in order to put an end to the piracy problem, incompatible with Use Diplomacy)
     
    Vote closed
  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by AstralFists on Sep 23, 2024 at 8:15 PM, finished with 11 posts and 11 votes.
    • [X] Entering a new Era
      [X] Plan: I've seen this one before
      - [X] Expand the Military: we need to expand our military if we were to get involved in war again (Rome would strengthen and expand its military, allowing it to gain an edge should they enter war)
      - [X] Keep the Walls: the walls would need to be up should the city of Rome be invaded (the walls built on the capital of Rome during the Second Pyrrhic War would stay, allowing it to remain fortified, incompatible with Tear Down the Walls)
      - [X] Pass the Lex Flaminia: it is the responsibility of a politician to campaign for the common man (the Lex Flaminia would be passed, pleasing both Gaius Flaminius and the plebeians, but upsetting the senate, incompatible with Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)
      - [X] Use Force: we need to humble this madwoman (Rome would wage war on Illyria in order to put an end to the piracy problem, incompatible with Use Diplomacy)
      [X] Entering a new Era
      - [X] Expand the Military: we need to expand our military if we were to get involved in war again (Rome would strengthen and expand its military, allowing it to gain an edge should they enter war)
      -[X] Export More Stuff: it's time we start giving some of luxury goods to our allies (Rome would export some of its luxury goods present in the nation to its allies, mainly exporting stuff that their allies either don't have or only have a small quantity)
      - [X] Pass the Lex Flaminia: it is the responsibility of a politician to campaign for the common man (the Lex Flaminia would be passed, pleasing both Gaius Flaminius and the plebeians, but upsetting the senate, incompatible with Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)
      - [X] Use Force: we need to humble this madwoman (Rome would wage war on Illyria in order to put an end to the piracy problem, incompatible with Use Diplomacy)
      [X] Plan: Let's not start a two front war
      -[X] Export More Stuff: it's time we start giving some of luxury goods to our allies (Rome would export some of its luxury goods present in the nation to its allies, mainly exporting stuff that their allies either don't have or only have a small quantity)
      - [X] Keep the Walls: the walls would need to be up should the city of Rome be invaded (the walls built on the capital of Rome during the Second Pyrrhic War would stay, allowing it to remain fortified, incompatible with Tear Down the Walls)
      -[X] Don't Pass the Lex Flaminia: we wouldn't want to upset the senate, do we? (the Lex Flaminia would not be passed, pleasing the senate, but upsetting both the plebeians and Gaius Flaminius, incompatible with Pass the Lex Flaminia, or with Propose a Compromise)
      -[X] Use Diplomacy: it is best to use persuasion before violence (there's a 15% chance of the Romans managing persuading Queen Teuta to put an end to her policy of piracy, however, should it fail, Rome would wage war on Illyria anyway, incompatible with Use Force)
    Click to expand...


    Rolling for Etruscan invasion: 63 (the Etruscans did not invade)
     
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  • Voting
    • The Illyrian War peace treaty
  • Threadmarks
    • The Illyrian War peace treaty
    228 bc
    ​
    Rome has once again expand its military in preparation for future threats, in addition, it passed the Lex Flaminia, a land reform to parcel land in the underpopulated province of Lucania to some of the poorer plebeians, much to the chagrin of the senate, however, the biggest event to occur in 228 bc is the Illyrian War, in which the Romans use force in order to put an end to Illyrian piracy, a policy continued under the reign of Queen Teuta…


    Peace Treaty: the Romans were victorious in the war against the Illyrian War, thanks to their larger military, now that the dust settled, we need to figure what to do with Illyria (select 3 choices)

    [ ] Keep Illyria Independent: we can clearly trust Illyria not to continue their bad habit of piracy (Illyria would continue with the same amount of independence from Rome it had before, albeit prohibited from performing piracy on Roman waters, incompatible with Vassalize Illyria)

    [ ] Vassalize Illyria: by vassalizing them, we can better ensure the end of Illyrian piracy (Illyria would become a vassal sate of Rome, meaning that Illyria would give tribute to Rome, as well as being prohibited from performing piracy on Roman water, incompatible with Keep Illyria Independent)

    [ ] Status Quo: them promising to stop piracy (and possibly giving us tribute) should be enough (no territorial changes would occur to Illyria, incompatible with Territorial Concession)

    [ ] Territorial Concession: they clearly don't need all that territory (Illyria would have to give up some of its territory to either Rome or some other states, incompatible with Status Quo)
    - [ ] Write-In Vote (you determine which territory would Illyria give up and to whom)

    [ ] Keep Queen Teuta: as long as she doesn't continue her policy of piracy, she is allowed to rule (Queen Teuta would still be allowed to rule Illyria, albeit on the condition of not continuing her policy of piracy, incompatible with Replace Her with Someone Else)

    [ ] Replace Her with Someone Else: we can not trust this mad woman to rule Illyria (Queen Teuta would be deposed, and someone else would rule Illyria, incompatible with Keep Queen Teuta)
    - [ ] Write-In Vote (you determine which person would replace Queen Teuta as ruler of Illyria)
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Alright everyone. Hear me out. I can rule Illyria for Rome. (I'm joking...unless...)
     
    [X] Divide and Conquer
    -[ ] Vassalize Illyria: by vassalizing them, we can better ensure the end of Illyrian piracy (Illyria would become a vassal sate of Rome, meaning that Illyria would give tribute to Rome, as well as being prohibited from performing piracy on Roman water, incompatible with Keep Illyria Independent)
    -[ ] Territorial Concession: they clearly don't need all that territory (Illyria would have to give up some of its territory to either Rome or some other states, incompatible with Status Quo)
    -- [ ] Histri
    -[ ] Keep Queen Teuta: as long as she doesn't continue her policy of piracy, she is allowed to rule (Queen Teuta would still be allowed to rule Illyria, albeit on the condition of not continuing her policy of piracy, incompatible with Replace Her with Someone Else)

    Not sure if there is a map we are supposed to use for territories so that is a best approximation. On the political side I think leaving her in place and dependent on our support is better for keeping them loyal vassals.
     
    Uhtread said:
    [X] Divide and Conquer
    -[ ] Vassalize Illyria: by vassalizing them, we can better ensure the end of Illyrian piracy (Illyria would become a vassal sate of Rome, meaning that Illyria would give tribute to Rome, as well as being prohibited from performing piracy on Roman water, incompatible with Keep Illyria Independent)
    -[ ] Territorial Concession: they clearly don't need all that territory (Illyria would have to give up some of its territory to either Rome or some other states, incompatible with Status Quo)
    -- [ ] Histri
    -[ ] Keep Queen Teuta: as long as she doesn't continue her policy of piracy, she is allowed to rule (Queen Teuta would still be allowed to rule Illyria, albeit on the condition of not continuing her policy of piracy, incompatible with Replace Her with Someone Else)

    Not sure if there is a map we are supposed to use for territories so that is a best approximation. On the political side I think leaving her in place and dependent on our support is better for keeping them loyal vassals.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    You should specify who you giving Histri to, also, there is a map of the Illyrian Kingdom, it look something like this:
     
    [X] I've got my Eye on you
    -[ ] Keep Queen Teuta: as long as she doesn't continue her policy of piracy, she is allowed to rule (Queen Teuta would still be allowed to rule Illyria, albeit on the condition of not continuing her policy of piracy
    -[ ] Vassalize Illyria: by vassalizing them, we can better ensure the end of Illyrian piracy (Illyria would become a vassal sate of Rome, meaning that Illyria would give tribute to Rome, as well as being prohibited from performing piracy on Roman water, incompatible with Keep Illyria Independent), incompatible with Replace Her with Someone Else)
    [ ] Territorial Concession: they clearly don't need all that territory (Illyria would have to give up some of its territory to either Rome or some other states, incompatible with Status Quo)
    - [ ] Write-In: Rhizon city, military garrison and small military fleet or Romans in the city.

    Justifications:
    Teuta most likely hates us, but she is beaten and know's it. Illyria could use Rome as much as Rome could use Illyria, investing part of the tribute back (...eventually) could make them view us more favorably, not to mention not matyring their Queen so no one runs off to the hills saying they fight on in the dead Queen's name, oh look her son is with us!.
    Territorially the wounds are still deep and our focus should be on securing Rome over lording over the Illyrians or carving up the state. Having a Roman Garrison in one of their ports and a fleet there and visible... well it's one area, they still control the country side but now we have a port to invade from if they decide to resume hostilities.
    Plus a visible sign of "I can get to you where you think you are safe" Is a nice reminder so no individuals get the bright idea that we won't notice a couple ships disappearing.
     
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