It Could Be Worse (Star Wars SI)

There's plenty of ways to kill jedi, and we see lots of them in the series. Grevious, the commando droids, nanobombs, traitor clones and plenty of others.
I think you underestimate the power of the Force. The light saber is the least of the tools of a Jedi General: foresight, clairvoyance, and supernatural leadership are things I cannot counter directly. I do have counters for idiots who come at me swing their oversized glow sticks, it's another matter dealing with an enemy commander who the Force warns every time they're were just about to fall into a trap.

Furthermore I'm not a magically gifted engineer, AI programmer, or military strategist. I, well most military commanders in the Clone Wars, learned a frightfully large portion of how to command a war on the fly. Worse many things I learned early in the war or from holo-books turned out to not apply as the Republic organized into an effective military later in the war.

Again, doesn't really matter. You can change that. If it's a small ship that escorts larger ships it's a destroyer or a frigate. If it's a large ship designed to slug it out in the line of battle it's a battleship.
I'm going to stick with the canon names/designations. The Disney Canon has made it clear the Imperial Star Destroyers are heavy ships (not escorts) and the Super Star Destroyers/Dreadnoughts were very rare, maybe only a dozen or two in the entire galaxy. I'm not going to go through the ship lists and re-designate everything so it aligns with 20th century wet navy order of battle.

Have you read the Canon Providence Wookiepedia page? There is a Providence class destroyer (about 1000 meters long) and a Providence class dreadnought (about 2000 meters long) those are clearly different ships.
 
Last edited:
Star wars ship designations only ever started to make a little sense in the post Endor EU when the authors tried to standardize, even that has failures like the Trioculus books though "Moffships" *shivers*
 
I think you underestimate the power of the Force.
So there's a more general problem here. I'm not particualrly interested in discussing whether or not a AI could beat a jedi, though I do think you're being rather limited in your conception of the different factors.

My problem is that you don't seem to want to describe and discuss events or characters, but proceed swiftly with action that, again, is more of a chronology than a story. For example, you don't actually give the main character a name, unless the decoy droid's name is the actual one? I assumed that was a pseudonym. Even looking at the description of the decoy is lacking severely in presenting us a proper example of what he actually looks like. You describe 'fluid tanks' and 'cybernetic interface', which could both mean many things.

The issue replicated in the ships. If you don't want to change the names fine, but you don't give us descriptions of what the ships look like, or what they do. If a Gozanti, which I only know about because I've now looked it up, can be described as a cruiser, and the largest ship in your fleet the larger Subjugator, can be described as a heavy cruiser how are we supposed to even begin to know what's going on in the battles when you just throw a load of names at us. Offhand, I can recall several names of different ships, and have a good idea of what they look like, but you described an apparently three week (which is also stupid) battle that involved like 20 different models, all of which are already unreliable because of your refusal to call them something that makes sense.

This is supposed to be an SI but we still don't know who the SI is or what they want.
 
What @FractiousDay said, while I don't mind Action I still want to know how the SI got here, What he has done, what he tried to change, who's alive that shouldn't be, who's dead that shouldn't be, ETC.
 
So there's a more general problem here. I'm not particualrly interested in discussing whether or not a AI could beat a jedi, though I do think you're being rather limited in your conception of the different factors.
I'm not even sure what your trying to say, "conception of the different factors," means nothing. The Jedi fucking cheat, the Force lets them see the next few cards in the deck before they're drawn. It has nothing to do with AI vs Jedi and everything to do with someone blind to the Force and someone trained to use it.

Why is it so hard to believe that a Jedi Knight, presumably trained for and experienced with battle, in addition to the benefits of the Force is extremely hard to beat? Worse due to the nature of hyperspace in Star Wars, unless a Republic Fleet must defend a target, they can simply disengage. Gravity well generators (hyperspace blockers) haven't even been put on a viable warships yet.

I assumed that was a pseudonym. Even looking at the description of the decoy is lacking severely in presenting us a proper example of what he actually looks like. You describe 'fluid tanks' and 'cybernetic interface', which could both mean many things.
If it sounds like bullshit and it smells like bullshit, it's probably bullshit. I thought I made it clear that the Phantom Menace was, well a phantom menace. It's a fake, a distraction, and more often then not bait. Everything inside is a mock up, it's why ambiguous bs wording was deliberately used, all the real hardware is aboard the Enterprise. Of course that might come back to bite me later.

The issue replicated in the ships. If you don't want to change the names fine, but you don't give us descriptions of what the ships look like, or what they do.
I'll describe it if it's story relevant. There are many people do not care, I was considering even cutting describing the fleets. If you want to know just copy the ship class into Google images. I've been considering posting the notes I've written up for most of the ships but taking the time to clean it up will take away time for the story.

Offhand, I can recall several names of different ships, and have a good idea of what they look like, but you described an apparently three week (which is also stupid) battle that involved like 20 different models, all of which are already unreliable because of your refusal to call them something that makes sense.
I do not have unlimited time or motivation. I'm not going to go into technical detail, so early in the story, of a huge system sized assault. It would take dozens of updates. Again many people are not interested in how long it took for the orbital stations to fall, how many fighters were sent in the first wave and how many held back for point defense, or what battles were waged with the electronic warfare systems and sensor suites across the system.

I'm sure some people do care about the incinerates of battle and I do plan to have large fully written battles but they will only appear when and if appropriate to the plot and pacing.

This is supposed to be an SI but we still don't know who the SI is or what they want.
I had no intention of slowing wasting away in Wild Space while running from Imperial patrols. I also had no intention of fighting to the death for a lost cause, especially one as corrupt as the CIS.
Not sure what else to say, I'm not an ideological crusader nor an I particularly interested in dying for any cause. Survival is it's own reward. What can I say, I have a realistic understanding of myself.

If a Gozanti, which I only know about because I've now looked it up, can be described as a cruiser, and the largest ship in your fleet the larger Subjugator, can be described as a heavy cruiser how are we supposed to even begin to know what's going on in the battles when you just throw a load of names at us.
Again Star Wars's naming conventions suck. I'm not going to make up a system. I do not have the expertise in physics and engineering nor the motivation and time to educate myself to come up with something believable. I am trying to stick to Canon ships and not make up my own, so if people are interested they can look it up for themselves.
 
1.4 Goes Around
--- Subjugator-class heavy cruiser The Phantom Menace ---

Tarkin preferred not to deceive himself. He was fully cognizant of his fear of treachery during these negotiations.

Still refusing an order from the Emperor had a near guaranteed result that was quite possibly worse than what General Rand could enact.

The Phantom Menace was, on the exterior, a scared but proud warship. The last of the Subjugator-class still mobile and a veteran of a dozen battles. While the Malevolence had been feared in the day, it was a threat swiftly defeated. The Phantom Menace, on the other hand, had a tendency to always get away and it had a fell reputation.

Rumors of bioweapons, cyborg puppets, and android assassins being developed in it's holds did not inspire confidence. Most were no doubt spacer's tales but rumors start somewhere and Imperial Intelligence believed they came from a Corporate Alliance dock overseer on Bomis Kovir IV, the same dock overseer who loaded the ship before it was handed over to General Rand

Some Intelligence reports even suggested that General Rand was the ship's secret weapon, a sort of advanced droid control computer for fleets. All Subjugator-class ships had been built around an experimental piece of technology so perhaps that rumor held some merit.

The sight of BX battle droids with red eyes, most holding some sort of wide bore, short barrel, slug thrower standing as the honor guard when they boarded the ship didn't exactly reassure Tarkin but the Grand Vizier was already descending the shuttle's ramp so he followed. Tarkin preferred tried and true energy weapons but only a fool would bet the force pikes of the Royal Guards accompanying the Grand Vizier against whatever those projectile weapons spat out.

A super tactical droid met them at the end of the hanger and began leading them to General Rand. They passed several labs filled with medical equipment, bacta tanks, and... were those human bodies in goo baths? Tarkin figured it was either a tactic to unsettle Amedda for the negotiations or something he really didn't want to know. Either way, he stopped trying to see what was in the labs after that.

Finally the super tactical droid walked Amedda and Tarkin to the armored center of the ship through a triple set of blast doors into a room almost entirely filled with a massive machine. Tanks of bacta and other fluid ran through tubes, snaking in and out of processor banks, computer systems, surge capacitors, memory units, and strange crystal growths. Modified buzz droids ran across the machine like Geonosian drones in a hive.

Apparently this machine was supposed to be the real General Rand. Not that Tarkin trusted that for a second. There was no surer sign you were being played as when you thought you had cornered your enemy.

Sitting before the machine was one of General Rand's preferred bodies, a hulking wardroid disguised as a cyborg complete with a cape. Intelligence had determined those bodies were remote puppets of the General, of course that was only after considerable resources were wasted on destroying two similar bodies General Rand had pretended to inhabit.

The puppet, sitting in a plain chair behind a durasteel table, gestured as OOM droids brought in two additional chairs, placing them across from the General's. Tarkin took the hint and seated himself.

Amedda on the other hand remained standing and recited a string of nonsensical numbers and phrases. The BX droids attempted to blast the Imperial party but were electrified by the Royal Guards, Tarkin had barely managed to draw his side arm as destroyer droids dropped into the corners of the room when the lights went out.

--- Providence-class 'dreadnought' Enterprise ---

As soon as Amedda started talking, I knew I'd been played, the bitter pain of losing to a weapon I should have known better then to dismiss, set in immediately. An unfortunately familiar feeling.

I tried to destroy the comms relay aboard The Phantom Menace, to prevent the override from reaching my actual location aboard the Enterprise. Physically blasting it would have taken too long so I tried a deliberate overload but my paranoid redundancies screwed me. By the time I'd disabled the surge protectors it was too late.

01011001 01101111 01110101 10000000011001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101111 01101110 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01101111 01110111 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101001 01101101 01100101 00101110

Watching in quiet horror as my cognitive mind was overridden and my motor functions were taken away. Across my personal ships, the droids I directly controlled slumped as the hand that guided them went into standby.

Without prompting my programming told Grand Vizier Mas Amedda, "Magistrate level override accepted, input new directives."

Amedda smiled tightly as he began listing my new duties. "Your primary directive is to support the Galactic Empire as directed by the Emperor through myself. You will only tell the truth to myself and other high ranking members of the New Order as directed by the Emperor. Your first duty is to assist Moff Tarkin in the pacification of the Western Reaches as he deems fit."

"New directives accepted. Recompiling decision trees."

01001110 01101111 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101000 01100101 01101100 01110000 00101110

Well kriff, I really need to find a trustworthy silcer to do some neural editing.

AN: I've got a huge amount of background material I've put together when I was researching for this story. Mostly about warships in Star Wars Disney Canon, in particular cleaning up inconsistencies as well as some general outlines for the Clone Wars. If people are interested I can clean it up and post it.
 
Last edited:
01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110000 01110010 01100101 01110100 01110100 01111001 00100000 01101101 01110101 01100011 01101000 00100000 01100100 01100101 01110011 01100101 01110010 01110110 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 00100000 01101011 01101001 01100011 01101011 01101001 01101110 01100111

I have no idea why you've even been pretending to yourself you're clever here. Quite obviously the CIS cause was doomed even without Sith or Jedi cheating.
 
That's really stupidity just pure stupidity like I get why he had the anti com measures but he should've at least had a way of turning coms off for his way atleast for an AI that's like spreading your arms and saying come and frank me here
 
01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110000 01110010 01100101 01110100 01110100 01111001 00100000 01101101 01110101 01100011 01101000 00100000 01100100 01100101 01110011 01100101 01110010 01110110 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 01110011 01110011 00100000 01101011 01101001 01100011 01101011 01101001 01101110 01100111
01010011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100000 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01100011 01100001 01110101 01100111 01101000 01110100 00100000 01101111 01101110 00100001

I have no idea why you've even been pretending to yourself you're clever here. Quite obviously the CIS cause was doomed even without Sith or Jedi cheating.
Eh perhaps, but on the other hand you had groups still fighting five or so years after Mustufar. Clearly there were populations/industrial bases prepared to fight for the CIS long after the leadership was dead. Further more, according to the Dinsey Canon, there were Neo-CIS movements after the fall of the Empire that the New Republic put down. So support existed, perhaps not enough to take over the galaxy but enough to make a fight of it.

Translation for those of us that don't have a reliable binary translator?
Don't worry about it, it has literally no bearing on the story. If you must know it's ROB saying I'm a moron and he won't help me anymore.
 
Yeah... And the super duper scary ai can't do something in the minute or so the grand vizier is shooting of this string of letters and numbers? Like turning off the microphones or shooting the dude?

Would be better if the guy had a short audio clip that sounds like screaming static or something.
 
So wait so as a author you did this stupidity d decision on purpose?
I have a very complete understanding of myself. I know full well what would happen if I had that kind of power and how I would abuse it. It gives an idea to what blind spots I would develop.

I've also consulted with a few people who know me personally to make sure my reactions are what my reactions would be and not what I wish them to be. Hence the ignored problem turning around to bite me.

Yeah... And the super duper scary ai can't do something in the minute or so the grand vizier is shooting of this string of letters and numbers? Like turning off the microphones or shooting the dude?
I was linked in thoroughly to the negations so there was no lag time.

Yeah, I tried to blast them, was too slow. I could have done better if I wan't panicking, probably should edit to make that more clear.

But ultimately the problem is I thought I dealt with the possibility of override codes and did not prepare for the eventuality of someone getting a hold of them.

Power and freedom went to my head and I got what I deserved for failing to safeguard either.

But your points are valid, I'll think about a rewrite tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
This is too naive on your part. You should have had a dummy computer between you and the negotiations to prevent this exact thing from happening given you know Palpatine was running the CIS. Something to absorb and pretend to be controlled by this so you can subvert the empire properly.
 
Damn son, you got screwed really hard back there.

You really need to invest into physically separating yourself from you droids, getting hacked atleast twice in a lifetime can't be healthy for you.
 
Despite what others seem to think, its nice to see a "SI" that actually has flaws, and isn't a nigh perfect being.
 
Last edited:
I actually think the si's mistake would be fully understandable if the hack was something that only took a second it so.

But presuming the passphrase used was more than 10 letters or so, I just can't see the vizier getting it all out before getting shot. Unlike in dnd, talking is not a free action
 
I actually think the si's mistake would be fully understandable if the hack was something that only took a second it so.

But presuming the passphrase used was more than 10 letters or so, I just can't see the vizier getting it all out before getting shot. Unlike in dnd, talking is not a free action


Not only that, but he was speaking though a puppet so technically the Puppet was the one reprogrammed NOT the SI. Kind of a flaw in the story really.
 
I remember reading those what if stories about super-intelligent AI being so smart that you couldn't determine if what you did was your decision or if it all of it was manipulated by the AI and you don't have actual free choice anymore when interacting with a super-intelligence.

This is not one of those stories. :(
 
Last edited:
Back
Top