Calling this show a 6/10 is an insult to all 6/10's everywhere. It's a 2.5/10.

I'm pretty sure that that's just a consequence of anything "actually good" being automatically given a 8/10 or higher by critics. To me, 2.5/10 is something like some of the worse written/drawn schlock that went on Adult Swim. The stuff that has no plot, is awfully designed, characters all have one characterization of "huge asshole" and stuff like that. And a 1/10 would be something so atrocious that it is literally unwatchable. Not figuratively but literally.

Nothing to say about your other stuff, as I said the entire show is a huge matter of personal preferences and tolerances. And also how much schlock you've been exposed to while having the TV run in the background as a child.
 
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I'm pretty sure that that's just a consequence of anything "actually good" being automatically given a 8/10 or higher by critics. To me, 2.5/10 is something like some of the worse written/drawn schlock that went on Adult Swim. The stuff that has no plot, is awfully designed, characters all have one characterization of "huge asshole" and stuff like that. And a 1/10 would be something so atrocious that it is literally unwatchable. Not figuratively but literally.

Nothing to say about your other stuff, as I said the entire show is a huge matter of personal preferences and tolerances. And also how much schlock you've been exposed to while having the TV run in the background as a child.
Average is 5/10. RWBY is consistently of below average quality. Anything above a 4/10 is being silly. Saying it's a 6/10 because """actually good""" media is rated 8/10 is dumb.
 
Average is 5/10. RWBY is consistently of below average quality. Anything above a 4/10 is being silly. Saying it's a 6/10 because """actually good""" media is rated 8/10 is dumb.
We might have different experiences of what is average, because from what I've seen, RWBY is consistently slightly above average quality.

Nontheless, staying out of the further discussion because I don't feel comfortable discussing the quality of something I'm familliar with mostly due to indirect knowledge rather than direct experience. I just felt like giving a TLDR of what people on average seem to think about it
 
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Well, it depends. Do you base your quality scale on the quality of the media, or do you have auseless system?
I try to compare it to everything I remember seeing, both bad and good, and sort it from the bottom upwards. Probably not the best system to use in this case, but I consider it at least fairer than the usual journalist system of "6/10 is the absolute worst rating you can give to a thing unless it's literally unwatchable/unreadable/unplayable" that I've seen in various journals and websites.
 
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I try to compare it to everything I remember seeing, both bad and good, and sort it from the bottom upwards. Probably not the best system to use in this case, but I consider it at least fairer than the usual journalist system of "6/10 is the absolute worst rating you can give to a thing unless it's literally unwatchable/unreadable/unplayable" that I've seen in various journals and websites.
The ratings system of 'everything is an 8' is specifically designed to mislead people into watching/playing every big budget piece of media that comes out. It's not an actually helpful or functional review system. You say you know that. So, don't use it.
 
The ratings system of 'everything is an 8' is specifically designed to mislead people into watching/playing every big budget piece of media that comes out. It's not an actually helpful or functional review system. You say you know that. So, don't use it.
I genuinely consider RWBY to be fitting at the place where I put it, because of the stuff that I'd consider to be below it. I just have a lot of worse stuff to pile under it. As I said, my TLDR was mostly based on what I've seen a lot of other people say about it in places, both fans and not-fans, plus a few things I'd watched myself.

Sorry that I can't argue it better, I'd need to watch RWBY properly to figure it out and I'm honestly not interested. I like the main characters for their weirdly attracting charm as well as the designs, but the rest of RWBY is just not my thing.
 
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I genuinely consider RWBY to be fitting at the place where I put it, because of the stuff that I'd consider to be below it. I just have a lot of worse stuff to pile under it. As I said, my TLDR was mostly based on what I've seen a lot of other people say about it in places, both fans and not-fans, plus a few things I'd watched myself.

Sorry that I can't argue it better, I'd need to watch RWBY properly to figure it out and I'm honestly not interested. I like the main characters for their weirdly attracting charm as well as the designs, but the rest of RWBY is just not my thing.
It's no problem. For not having watched RWBY, it's a fairly (not wholly) accurate review. I think people get confused on what court I'm in here for good reason. I think the show sucks, and I like to say it when challenged, but I'm also a fan of the RWBY fanfiction, so I've kinda been fraternizing with the 'enemy' a bit.
 
1. If by two-dimensional you mean inconsistent, yes. Every character has two to three traits and besides that sort of randomly have roles assigned to them in each episode, with the exception of Jaune who gets about four traits and is written like a protagonist even though he's not.

This... is one of the biggest areas where fans will disagree with you on. I don't find the characters inconsistent or random or what have you.


Also, Jaune is a protagonist. Not the protagonist, but it's hard to argue he's not one of the viewpoint characters we follow around (even if this is not a popular state even with many fans).


DestinyPlayer's description strikes me as fair:
1: Characters are two dimensional. Not stupidly stereotyped, but not excellent either. Yang, for example, had been actively shown to be an avid book reader rather than just a simple jock. Nontheless, they are very much enjoyable to watch, and have that kinda charm you only get from simple but fun characters, the "non-shitty part of Deviantart" I would say. Yes, it exists. They're also pretty darn decently designed visually.

And I'll add, they're characters shown in a fairly wide variety of situations, which makes it easier to engage with them. They're fairly straightforward but showing them change and do a lot of different stuff helps.


There's a discussion on iconic vs cliche to be had here. They're sorta like Overwatch characters- you get a feel for their personalities very fast and they stand out among similar characters even while definitely being firm members of their niches.
 
RWBY will never be good until the writers decide to put some actual basic research into their work. These morons actually forgot what the word annual means (yes they straight-up admitted it), have no idea how night visions or camouflage work, and refused to do any research whatsoever on civil rights or racism despite making it a major theme of the work. They actually had to have other people tell them that making the first gay character (pilot boi) both selfish and dying shortly thereafter was a bad idea. They will continue to have a poor product until they start basic pre and post production on their work. All of the problems they have stem from laziness and an unwillingness to improve, because they have somehow garnered a fanbase that will defend everything they do to the death.
 
but they clearly put a lot of care into the show, characterization, very much the character designs, fights, etc., and while some stuff takes too long to flesh out, they do flesh it out. They make mistakes because they are winging it,

As someone who both puts a lot of effort into things and wings it a lot, I have to say, the bolded sections are basically back to back contrary statements.

My quests, my RPs, my forays into user fiction writing... These are amateur works I am not trying to sell, they are things I might aspire to, one day, make money off of, but in the here and now are practice and more to entertain myself than anything else.

RWBY is a professional product selling material goods off its brand.

And it doesn't even seem to know what it wants to be on a basic level.

Like, again. Going back to my own works, because that's where I can speak with experience, some of my ideas are very off the cuff, and are basically nothing but making things up as I go. I flail, and do whatever sounds good. Perhaps I even do a good job, but they are fundamentally my plunging in carelessly, and putting forward fairly minimal effort into areas like planning, with the primary goal being to get better at writing through sheer practice. I've historically had a lot of trouble with the metaphorical pen to paper at all.

Others are me trying to do stuff with settings I have worked on for years, where while my concepts of exact details evolve with time, I've had broad strokes of both setting facts and also setting themes laid out to follow in advance. My Vampire setting has a bunch of root concepts going into it that guide my efforts with the RPs I run in it, even though even there I make up a lot of stuff as I go. I've never been that good at laying out long lists in advance.

RWBY has been a professional product for years, with the budget to hire professional, big name voice actors, and sells merchandise. It has a team, rather than being the work of one man with no editor. And yet it looks like my sloppiest, most casual and unserious efforts in areas like consistency and thematics and so on... While having the money to hire professionals and having a crew of people working on it. Oh, certainly, I am working merely with written text, and not needing to deal with voice acting, sound, and animations, but again, this is a professional work with specialists for those areas.

They might care in the sense of having big emotions about it, but they do not put great care in, in the sense of due diligence processes. If they did, flaws like it being so directionless and having episodes with glaring errors would not be so intrusively and dramatically present. We can see the lack of professional care put into this product sold professionally, regardless of what else you might think. It is a distinct and dramatic lack.

Then there are shows where the lore and continuity is key -- they're trying to do a through-line or an epic fantasy or whatever. From what I've heard, I have the impression that Avatar: The Last Airbender (and Korra) is like this. I would also include NGE.

Avatar: the Last Airbender is indeed very lore and continuity focused. While I've seen shows that are more so such, most episodes tie pretty directly into the overarching narrative and plenty of events have fairly permanent visible repercussions, allowing you to order many of the episodes without needing an official order because the evidence is simply there.
 
This... is one of the biggest areas where fans will disagree with you on. I don't find the characters inconsistent or random or what have you.
You know why that is? You know why you feel the characters aren't inconsistent and two dimensional? Because I do. Because I've been in the position of 'avid RWBY fan' and felt the same way. In fact, it's something that applies to a large amount of fandoms out there. You have, over the course of discussing the show, reading and perhaps writing the fanfiction, thinking up ideas for it, and so on, created in your mind a more fleshed out version of each of the characters. You have added to them personality and character traits that would fit their character. You have ascribed to them a greater depth than the show does. On an objective level, the writing and characterization of the majority of the characters is two dimensional and inconsistent, but you fill in the gaps on your own. I was this way until I rewatched the show and realized how shallow they are. The interesting and more consistent characterization of the cast is one of the better parts of the fandom, but it's something that came from the fandom, not the show.
 
You know why that is? You know why you feel the characters aren't inconsistent and two dimensional? Because I do. Because I've been in the position of 'avid RWBY fan' and felt the same way. In fact, it's something that applies to a large amount of fandoms out there. You have, over the course of discussing the show, reading and perhaps writing the fanfiction, thinking up ideas for it, and so on, created in your mind a more fleshed out version of each of the characters. You have added to them personality and character traits that would fit their character. You have ascribed to them a greater depth than the show does. On an objective level, the writing and characterization of the majority of the characters is two dimensional and inconsistent, but you fill in the gaps on your own. I was this way until I rewatched the show and realized how shallow they are. The interesting and more consistent characterization of the cast is one of the better parts of the fandom, but it's something that came from the fandom, not the show.

I've read zero RWBY fanfiction, btw. I've watch the show, chibi, and read the manga, that's it.

I think you're projecting your views onto me. Also, if a show does a good enough job at writing out someone's personality that for most viewers, their mind fills in the blanks correctly, consistent with what comes later and in a way most watchers do the same, that's not bad or inconsistent writing, that's good writing used to imply the bits we don't see.


I'll toss back, maybe you don't like 'em so much for the reason you name, you read a lot of fanfic or such and have decided you like some different version you've picked up on more and had fan-views sink into your head, including where they clash with what you initially saw. If the first time you watched them you didn't find them inconsistent, maybe it's your perception that changed.


Terrabrand said:
And it doesn't even seem to know what it wants to be on a basic level.


That's a very bold, definitive statement, which I don't think holds up on analysis. The majority of fans watch it and gets the impression of an adventure-story about a handful of cool characters as they grow up and get involved in a larger conflict between good and evil, while meanwhile fighting shadow monsters and interacting in entertaining ways.

Heck, even if somehow they didn't know what they want (which I find implausible for the 'fans tend to take the same stuff from it,' and it's got a broad plan for fairly far down the road, if with shifting details), the fact that most fans come up with the same answer would be incredibly lucky!

The idea that a series basically lucks into telling it's story and hitting the notes at least most fans expect- with changes in tone that very much fit traditional arc structure and not at all random- is one that I think most people who've tried writing a long story will scoff at. One doesn't really 'luck' into hitting the good notes repeatedly.
 
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I've read zero RWBY fanfiction, btw. I've watch the show, chibi, and read the manga, that's it.

I think you're projecting your views onto me. Also, if a show does a good enough job at writing out someone's personality that for most viewers, their mind fills in the blanks correctly, consistent with what comes later and in a way most watchers do the same, that's not bad or inconsistent writing, that's good writing used to imply the bits we don't see.


I'll toss back, maybe you don't like 'em so much for the reason you name, you read a lot of fanfic or such and have decided you like some different version you've picked up on more and had fan-views sink into your head, including where they clash with what you initially saw. If the first time you watched them you didn't find them inconsistent, maybe it's your perception that changed.
Then you honestly don't know what good or consistent characterization is, and don't have any excuse.
 
Yes, that's really a re-assertion of your point, and gets into the 'just fall back on saying RWBY is bad,' thing.

Like, you say inconsistent, but to me, it feels more like a real person acts with a fair amount of variety- a lot of fictional characters tend to act in certain ways and neglect real life factors like mods. It's not like it's confusing or mysterious why the characters act that way, it's not like they're acting suddenly out-of-character, something I think we've all seen in plenty of shows, they just have a variety of moods and such and in the wide view, are pretty consistent on what their range is and how they act is appropriate for the situations.

I don't find it inconsistent, most people who like it don't. People have different moods and grow and change! If you don't like a show, you can view it as inconsistency, but if you don't, well, it looks a lot like fleshing out the characters. "No, you're just wrong and have no excuse," is unhelpful, and also an example of the 'shout down people who do have positive opinions' thing. You started out presenting your argument but when people disagree, that's the fallback, and that also gets into why this isn't a good place for learning about the show due to the combativeness- stating I'm wrong takes precedence over other matters.


And to fire back a little, you dismissed my argument on ground of reading fanfics too, but it seems to be the fanfic reader who has the issue here, so maybe you're onto something with that being a problem. You aren't working closer off the main source, you've had a lot more outside tangental material to affect your opinion, and you've got a lot of fanfic versions of them rummaging around your head. Heck, maybe that's where some of your view of inconsistency comes from.


Oh yea, also missed a part from last page:
Yes, the people who are explicit exceptions to the rule. Why does that change anything when every other character in the white fang is a literal thug?

Blake's dad is the leader of their town and former leader of the White Fang. He's not just some random Faunas or WF member, he literally does represent them, and in a rather major plot scene, the aforementioned characters gather a rather large group of people to participate in a battle for control over the group, aided by Ilia, another defector WF, in a series of events set off by the assassination of the White Fang's more recent leader when we do get a broader explanation of how things are set up. This isn't easy to miss stuff.

(And first non-thug WF member? Blake. It's quite some time we meet any named characters in the Fang who aren't Adam and Blake, but when we do, we get a variety)
 
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Yes, that's really a re-assertion of your point, and gets into the 'just fall back on saying RWBY is bad,' thing.

Like, you say inconsistent, but to me, it feels more like a real person acts with a fair amount of variety- a lot of fictional characters tend to act in certain ways and neglect real life factors like mods. It's not like it's confusing or mysterious why the characters act that way, it's not like they're acting suddenly out-of-character, something I think we've all seen in plenty of shows, they just have a variety of moods and such and in the wide view, are pretty consistent on what their range is and how they act is appropriate for the situations.

I don't find it inconsistent, most people who like it don't. People have different moods and grow and change! If you don't like a show, you can view it as inconsistency, but if you don't, well, it looks a lot like fleshing out the characters. "No, you're just wrong and have no excuse," is unhelpful, and also an example of the 'shout down people who do have positive opinions' thing. You started out presenting your argument but when people disagree, that's the fallback, and that also gets into why this isn't a good place for learning about the show due to the combativeness- stating I'm wrong takes precedence over other matters.


And to fire back a little, you dismissed my argument on ground of reading fanfics too, but it seems to be the fanfic reader who has the issue here, so maybe you're onto something with that being a problem. You aren't working closer off the main source, you've had a lot more outside tangental material to affect your opinion, and you've got a lot of fanfic versions of them rummaging around your head. Heck, maybe that's where some of your view of inconsistency comes from.


Oh yea, also missed a part from last page:


Blake's dad is the leader of their town and former leader of the White Fang. He's not just some random Faunas or WF member, he literally does represent them, and in a rather major plot scene, the aforementioned characters gather a rather large group of people to participate in a battle for control over the group, aided by Ilia, another defector WF, in a series of events set off by the assassination of the White Fang's more recent leader when we do get a broader explanation of how things are set up. This isn't easy to miss stuff.

(And first non-thug WF member? Blake. It's quite some time we meet any named characters in the Fang who aren't Adam and Blake, but when we do, we get a variety)
To the first part: enjoying RWBY's characters does not preclude anyone, myself included, from knowing that they are objectively poorly written. I'm not shrieking about you liking an aspect, I'm informing you that the objective truth of the matter is that the characterization of RWBY as a whole is poor on a technical, objective level. It does not mean you cannot enjoy it. It just means that calling it 'good' is inaccurate.

To the second part: two things. One, having less positive examples of members of the White Fang fang than i have fingers on one hand does not redeem the show's botched and even offensive attempt to have a racism subplot. In addition, the examples given reinforce that classic modern form of racism, where racists have changed from denying that racism is bad to saying that it's bad, but also still being racist by setting purity standards for racial groups. The kind that decries protesters as violent thugs, and glorifies the idea of the minority that just lets everything other people do wash off of them and just waits the last bits of racism to be gone from the world. In this view, there are 'the good ones,' as in Blake and co., who don't fight for their rights, but rather just weather the storm completely peacefully. It's the idea of nonviolence pushed to the extreme - it's okay to protest, as long as you don't disrupt anything or get angry. And then there are 'the bad ones,' who are everyone who is not at that level of being virginal and pure and letting yourself get walked over. They're portrayed as thugs, as violent, not as fighting against racism, but as contributing to it.

And two, why the fuck are you dying on this hill? The racism subplot is, with the sole exception of Jaune existing, the most common thing for fans to talk about as a flaw, even if they love the show. It is an incredibly mishandled and problematic representation of race, no matter their intention. The fact that you are defending it just shows that you really are a fanatic.
 
To the first part: enjoying RWBY's characters does not preclude anyone, myself included, from knowing that they are objectively poorly written. I'm not shrieking about you liking an aspect, I'm informing you that the objective truth of the matter is that the characterization of RWBY as a whole is poor on a technical, objective level. It does not mean you cannot enjoy it. It just means that calling it 'good' is inaccurate.

Except 'objectively poorly written' is not just something you can simply proclaim and then that's that, and 'characters act different ways' is not automatically inconsistency or poor writing, especially when it doesn't come across that way to most people writing it. An inconsistency is someone liking something then disliking it for no reason, not them acting different in different circumstances/different moods in a way fitting their personality and shown range of reactions, and I feel this is you putting your opinion in for 'objective,' and gets more into the "you want to turn every thread outside the thread you avoid into a RWBY-negative one."

Like in some of the negative posts I've seen on this forum, people talk about "oh X comes out of no-where, that's poorly done," and I'm like, "Wait, they foreshadowed that in prior episode Y/they did Z before other time/etc.."

And two, why the fuck are you dying on this hill? The racism subplot is, with the sole exception of Jaune existing, the most common thing for fans to talk about as a flaw, even if they love the show. It is an incredibly mishandled and problematic representation of race, no matter their intention. The fact that you are defending it just shows that you really are a fanatic.

Yes, I agree- like, they only start fleshing out the white-fang and including positive representation outside of Blake at season 4-5! That's not good! Even so, you don't need to flanderize it and present it as worse than it is.

This is part of the issue, even if something is a problem, you turn it up to 11 more-so than in the show.

Like, 'less positive examples of the white fang than you can count on one hand.' Keep in mind we have less than 10 named white fang people total and the named character split is pretty even between the two, with five positive and four negative, so you can also count the bad ones on one hand. Now there is a point on how the no-names are presented as mooks and there's a lot more bad ones, unless you count Ghira and Blake's army at the end, but that does get into the aforementioned problem of seeing the bad way before we see the good.

Also:
And then there are 'the bad ones,' who are everyone who is not at that level of being virginal and pure and letting yourself get walked over.

Ghira's White Fang was called out for being ineffectual, while Sierra Khan's more confrontational white fang was making a difference even though it made Ghira uncomfortable, and Ghira's soft stance is part of why the faunas were reluctant to back him until the assassination attempt and Blake and Ilia's speeches. The problem group is the group that ultimately is more about Adam's spiteful revenge quest, works heavily with human criminals and terrorists, and one of their big actions was to try and launch a coup of Fauna-land. The ones that were bad were the ones who cared more about their own power and being able to kill people than they did faunas rights, the further things went on the more increasingly clear it was morphing into Adam's cult of personality.


Again, there's definite problems in their handling of it and for 3 seasons Adam is the face of the White Fang and we didn't even know the official leader, but the fact that you're getting things factually wrong doesn't help.
 
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Also, on the idea it's a '2.5 out of 10' compared to other shows... my reaction to that is roughly "Oh you poor sweet, summer child."

That's something that really comes across as someone who hasn't seen much out there. Even just talking major stuff, it is not hard at all to come up with a pretty long list of major series that are worse. Anyone remember Bleach? Sword Art Online, especially season 2? Pretty good sized sections of Naruto? (I mean, any anime filler of a major series has a tendency to make the first season Jaune arc look like Shakespeare)

Oh, I know a good one- it's even a short-episode CGI series of a major franchise done with far more budget that was released after RWBY. Behold, Transformers Combiner Wars:



The animation is poor, the mouths don't even line up well. The characters 1-dimensional, the dialog horrible, the plot lousy, all by a studio that's done a good number of shows before- and get this, it's not the worst TF CGI show by a margin, that'd be Energon. You can start with these, climb up for days, and still not be near RWBY's low bits, all made by people with more budget, more resources, more experience, and not a tenth the passion of RWBY.


It's kinda like if you encounter someone saying the first Bay Transformers movie is 'the worst movie ever' (I think RWBY's got a lot more going for it than that one, but it serves the analogy since it's well known). It's like, your reaction cannot help but be "you have no idea what awaits you, do you?". There's a lot of average stuff out there, and most average stuff doesn't have characters as enjoyable as RWBY's- unless your average is based on largely just cherrypicking the best stuff. If RWBY's on the low end of shows you've seen? Congratulations, you're pretty darn good at curating your list of media.
 
Anyone remember Bleach? Sword Art Online, especially season 2? Pretty good sized sections of Naruto?
Yes, actually. They all got pretty bad - but even their worst was roughly on par with RWBY at its best, and that's probably being generous, considering the relative quality of their contexts. Like, the last RWBY fan who tried to play the honestly really sad "Hey, at least we're not ________" game actually had a pretty decent pull, but these? These are not comparisons you want to be pretending are favorable. There are plenty of people on this board who know better.
You can start with these, climb up for days, and still not be near RWBY's low bits
Oh, you wish that were true.



And this is from S4 to boot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's after they switched from Poser to Maya (aka an actual animation program), right? Like, after the animation was supposed to get 'good?'
 
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