Actually Eventide Knights are beholden to the conscience. They are free to work for another government if they so choose. However, I don't think many knights that became knights would do so.
IIRC, swearing fealty to EVE isn't even required, it's just that most of them do anyway. Liara is a knight of eventide but did not swear fealty to EVE. She joined the religion, sure, but she is not tied by oath, law, or obligation to EVE or the Covenant of Eden. If it weren't for the fact that she joined a problematic religion, there really wouldn't be all that much problem with making her a SPECTRE. She'd pass the trials with almost contemptuous ease.
 
IIRC, swearing fealty to EVE isn't even required, it's just that most of them do anyway. Liara is a knight of eventide but did not swear fealty to EVE. She joined the religion, sure, but she is not tied by oath, law, or obligation to EVE or the Covenant of Eden. If it weren't for the fact that she joined a problematic religion, there really wouldn't be all that much problem with making her a SPECTRE. She'd pass the trials with almost contemptuous ease.
SPECTRE's don't have any mental health evaluations?

I mean, that does explain some things, but nothing good.
 
Liara was quite stable until someone pinged the 'asshole' radar.

She blew up her room because the janitor knocked on the door.

Sure she was wearing one of those stupid stock uniforms from the academy, but the only other thing she had to wear was the dress Lady Ere had given her considering she blasted the rest to oblivion with her room that time the janitor accidentally woke her.

At this point, she's a major danger to herself, but primarily to everyone around her.
 
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SPECTRE's don't have any mental health evaluations?

I mean, that does explain some things, but nothing good.
Nope! None! Nada!
As long as they keep it on the down low, they have carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want.

Knight of Eventide on the other hand is more combat capability and skill classification. Once you pass through the Cerberus Playground, you are a Knight of Eventide, but that's it. It starts and stops there. There's no chain of command, overarching organization, or any real responsibilities for that matter. What mostly stops a Knight is the law. What practically stops a Knight is EVE, because a Knight is so far above and beyond normal mortal creatures that the only thing that can definitely stop a Knight is the Existance Virtual Eventide.
 
Well, being mentally unstable might get in the way of becoming a SPECTRE, so I wouldn't put Liara down as likely to become one.
 
TBH, I'm wondering whether it wouldn't be better to just shut down the playground.

It takes an entire action per turn to maintain it.
Inflicts considerable suffering.
And hasn't done anything usefull as far as I recall.

I mean, do we really need a collection of tortured killers?
 
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TBH, I'm wondering whether it wouldn't be better to just shut down the playground.

It takes an entire action per turn to maintain it.
Inflicts considerable suffering.
And hasn't done anything usefull as far as I recall.

I mean, do we really need a collection of tortured killers?
what I get from it is it's more of a super solder program for the covenant that is ran by us to help them face the light of ruin and be better prepared for it. Basically we run it but those who pass usually just start working for the covenant and seeing how we only really see what the covenant does each turn in the broadest of strokes (usually just then "how does X empire effect you this turn" at the end of a turn) they probably are doing something helpful for the covenant it's just that we never hear about it
 
[X] Plan Vanitati Latinae Canentes

Martial (3 Actions)
[ACTIVE] The Fortress Walls (4 Turns)
[X]Treasures of the Lost
[X] The Badlands

Diplomacy (3 Actions) +1 Action
[ACTIVE] Prothean Pilgrims (2 Turns)
[ACTIVE] The Pirate Queen (1 Turn)
[ACTIVE] The Covenant War Machine (4 Turns)
[ACTIVE] Legions of Metal (1 Turn)

Stewardship (3 Actions)
[X] Transient Paradise (6 Turns)
[X] Advancement Through Imperfection (1 Turn)
[X] The Halo (1 Turn)

Intrigue (3 Actions) +1 Action
[ACTIVE] The Hunt
[ACTIVE] Grand Theft Metacon
[X] The Unknown World (IX)
[X] The Beacons (Repeatable)

Piety (3 Actions) +1 Action
[X] Welcome to the Playground
[X] The Hounds of Hell
[X] Snakes On A Boat
[X] Blessings of Athame

Learning (2 Actions)
[X] Revised Indexing Protocols
[X] The Database

Shipbuilding
///Heaven
//5,500 Output
-[X] Ruin Killers (86)
-[X] Spiritruns (2)

///Delirium
//3,000 Output
-[X]Ruin Killers (50)

///East Mirror
//1,000 Output
-[X] Spiritruns (50)

IO Cost: 29635 / 29640

Research
[8d100] Shadow Frame 142/400
[9d100] Digidaptive Combat Systems 482/1,000

I'm respectfully disagreeing with parts of the One Year Plan for several reasons. Cancelling our support for the Dragonflights feels wrong since it's only one turn from completing, Piety actions aren't being fully leveraged, inefficiencies in shipbuilding (5500 Shipbuilding does not divide neatly by 60, you wind up with 91.6667 Ruin Killers), and Stairway, while very nice to grab and has good reasoning, isn't immediately useful because our shipbuilding capacity remains abysmally small. The only reason that our IO is being used up fully in either plan is because they both leverage very expensive options. Absent that, our IO still mostly outstrips our ability to effectively use it.

That said, there are parts of the plan I do largely agree with. Our Intrigue options are identical and Stewardship are largely the same.

I've opted to deepen our shipbuilding capacity to take more advantage of our current IO, deny the enemy resources and keep to our commitments. Astute observers will note that I've juggled a bit of our IO and shipbuilding to allow for The Halo to be built in Heaven at the cost of not building five ruin killers on this turn, the alternative being having the Delirium String as the action and having almost 5k IO sitting unused. The Halo should allow for Heaven to produce even more ships in the ensuing turns so I feel that this is a small sacrifice to make for now. I'm not against doing Stairway to Heaven in a few turns, but now feels a bit too soon to do it since we're not in serious danger of running out of resources.

The main benefit though is that I'm not proposing that we feed a Mass Relay into our research sphere. That's just begging for all the wrong kinds of attention from everyone. It'll piss the Council off, since even if the relays are a Reaper trap, they're the main form of travel that you don't fuck with. The Reapers will get a heads up that some shit is going down... while we might learn something from it, the risk is simply too great at this juncture to even consider it.
 
what I get from it is it's more of a super solder program for the covenant that is ran by us to help them face the light of ruin and be better prepared for it. Basically we run it but those who pass usually just start working for the covenant and seeing how we only really see what the covenant does each turn in the broadest of strokes (usually just then "how does X empire effect you this turn" at the end of a turn) they probably are doing something helpful for the covenant it's just that we never hear about it
Point is, as super soldiers go they're not exactly worth it.

Cost is too huge, number is too little, and they're not that much better than a Dustling combat team.
 
Well, being mentally unstable might get in the way of becoming a SPECTRE, so I wouldn't put Liara down as likely to become one.
Nope. IIRC, plenty of psychopaths and sociopaths in the spectres. The organization as a whole is rather uncomfortably results oriented. What's problematic isn't Liara's mindstate, but her religion.

Point is, as super soldiers go they're not exactly worth it.

Cost is too huge, number is too little, and they're not that much better than a Dustling combat team.
Are you kidding? A Knight of Eventide is as far above and beyond a Dustling combat team as a dustling combat team is to a singular conscripted salarian civilian.
 
Just being being part of a class is already a +10 combat modifier, so there's some 1500 people, most of which already skilled soldiers), who have an extra +10 modifier. And that's not counting the as noted massive improvement passing the Playground is to combat skills.
 
Are you kidding? A Knight of Eventide is as far above and beyond a Dustling combat team as a dustling combat team is to a singular conscripted salarian civilian.

A dustling combat team has 35 average combat, and against the light they get to add their piety to their combat. This piety is also likely to average 35.
They also have a trait which lets them automatically eliminate any unit with combat less than half theirs, so against the Light that means they autokill a bunch of stuff/

A Knight has 30+ average combat, gets +40 on their rolls and some other miscellanous bonii.

That's great, and the Knight is probably better in almost all situations, but not better enough to justify the cost in my opinion. After all, we only got 17, and at least one appears to be 1 errant firework away from causing a mass casualty incident.
 
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[X] Plan Vanitati Latinae Canentes

Martial (3 Actions)
[ACTIVE] The Fortress Walls (4 Turns)
[X]Treasures of the Lost
[X] The Badlands

Diplomacy (3 Actions) +1 Action
[ACTIVE] Prothean Pilgrims (2 Turns)
[ACTIVE] The Pirate Queen (1 Turn)
[ACTIVE] The Covenant War Machine (4 Turns)
[ACTIVE] Legions of Metal (1 Turn)

Stewardship (3 Actions)
[X] Transient Paradise (6 Turns)
[X] Advancement Through Imperfection (1 Turn)
[X] The Halo (1 Turn)

Intrigue (3 Actions) +1 Action
[ACTIVE] The Hunt
[ACTIVE] Grand Theft Metacon
[X] The Unknown World (IX)
[X] The Beacons (Repeatable)

Piety (3 Actions) +1 Action
[X] Welcome to the Playground
[X] The Hounds of Hell
[X] Snakes On A Boat
[X] Blessings of Athame

Learning (2 Actions)
[X] Revised Indexing Protocols
[X] The Database

Shipbuilding
///Heaven
//5,500 Output
-[X] Ruin Killers (86)
-[X] Spiritruns (2)

///Delirium
//3,000 Output
-[X]Ruin Killers (50)

///East Mirror
//1,000 Output
-[X] Spiritruns (50)

IO Cost: 29635 / 29640

Research
[8d100] Shadow Frame 142/400
[9d100] Digidaptive Combat Systems 482/1,000

I'm respectfully disagreeing with parts of the One Year Plan for several reasons. Cancelling our support for the Dragonflights feels wrong since it's only one turn from completing, Piety actions aren't being fully leveraged, inefficiencies in shipbuilding (5500 Shipbuilding does not divide neatly by 60, you wind up with 91.6667 Ruin Killers), and Stairway, while very nice to grab and has good reasoning, isn't immediately useful because our shipbuilding capacity remains abysmally small. The only reason that our IO is being used up fully in either plan is because they both leverage very expensive options. Absent that, our IO still mostly outstrips our ability to effectively use it.

That said, there are parts of the plan I do largely agree with. Our Intrigue options are identical and Stewardship are largely the same.

I've opted to deepen our shipbuilding capacity to take more advantage of our current IO, deny the enemy resources and keep to our commitments. Astute observers will note that I've juggled a bit of our IO and shipbuilding to allow for The Halo to be built in Heaven at the cost of not building five ruin killers on this turn, the alternative being having the Delirium String as the action and having almost 5k IO sitting unused. The Halo should allow for Heaven to produce even more ships in the ensuing turns so I feel that this is a small sacrifice to make for now. I'm not against doing Stairway to Heaven in a few turns, but now feels a bit too soon to do it since we're not in serious danger of running out of resources.

The main benefit though is that I'm not proposing that we feed a Mass Relay into our research sphere. That's just begging for all the wrong kinds of attention from everyone. It'll piss the Council off, since even if the relays are a Reaper trap, they're the main form of travel that you don't fuck with. The Reapers will get a heads up that some shit is going down... while we might learn something from it, the risk is simply too great at this juncture to even consider it.
A few quick optimization suggestions:

The Database will be much more efficient after this turn thanks to Revised Indexing Protocols. Accordingly I suggest going for The Star of Creation this turn. It'll be a big help evening the numbers if we blow up the Light of Ruin's initial invasion fleet when they're nice and concentrated. The Citadel isn't in a solar system so we can even use the Star there without torching worlds. (Assuming it doesn't need a star around to work to make it go nova or something, I don't know how it works.) Warforms is also useful, but it's unclear how useful.

Salarians and Asari are involved in various diplomatic options the most often as obstacles. Understanding their races would probably be the most useful.

Prothean Pilgrims doesn't seem as important as making progress on fighting the Metacons before they grow exponentially. We should wrap up the tour on account of sudden war. They'll understand. That gets us an extra 2000 IC to put toward useful things.

We probably need Spirit Runs this turn more than we need Ruin Killers. Finding the motherships is our big obstacle right now, not killing them.

Edit: On the topic of the Playground, maybe we can suggest to @Crystalwatcher that the program be modified to include psychological guidance and support?

Also, I was thinking maybe our odds for the Scanner might be improved if we relocate and drop our Pit of Darkness on the planet temporarily.
 
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Edit: On the topic of the Playground, maybe we can suggest to @Crystalwatcher that the program be modified to include psychological guidance and support?
Our people are unlikely to have forgotten about that.

The Playground is just the training from hell trope. You can not remove the training from hell part without losing the trope, and if you lose the trope you lose everything, because training like this only makes sense in the context of the trope. By any sensible interpretation, training from hell would be counterproductive at best.
 
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Perfect for Indoctrination, Liara's the true final boss
You know, at this point, I'm wondering if EVE has the same indoctrination ability that the Reapers have. Would explain how she was able to gather a religion around herself so quickly, and how those who are in the closest contact with EVE's technology corresponds to the most zealous in faith.
 
You know, at this point, I'm wondering if EVE has the same indoctrination ability that the Reapers have. Would explain how she was able to gather a religion around herself so quickly, and how those who are in the closest contact with EVE's technology corresponds to the most zealous in faith.
EVE is just so much...bigger than organics that I suspect that religious feelings are a natural way to relate.
 
A dustling combat team has 35 average combat, and against the light they get to add their piety to their combat. This piety is also likely to average 35.
They also have a trait which lets them automatically eliminate any unit with combat less than half theirs, so against the Light that means they autokill a bunch of stuff/

A Knight has 30+ average combat, gets +40 on their rolls and some other miscellanous bonii.

That's great, and the Knight is probably better in almost all situations, but not better enough to justify the cost in my opinion. After all, we only got 17, and at least one appears to be 1 errant firework away from causing a mass casualty incident.
The big question is if Knights keep their other bonii, as in a Dustling Knight keeps the +Piety vs LoR (and good grief could they have a lot of Piety...).

Even disregarding other things I'm looking at the Knights as being memetic Shepard level combatants and having all sorts of tricks since they operate alone... And we all know what a Shepard level combatant is capable of.
 
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