There is definitely a lot of potential overlap between the two options yes. (Iirc I even noted that in their descriptions)
I do agree with your analysis that insurance is probably more intentional than unkillable.
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Immured Titans (5/5)
- Thread starter Demonic Spoon
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I do agree with your analysis that insurance is probably more intentional than unkillable.
6 ZeV Proton
!niaga sekirts
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As tropes go, obliviously cruel primordials seems like a better fit for Ca-E-Rhun than deliberately cruel ones, so I think I'll switch to supporting Unkillable if that helps.
FAKEDIT: It doesn't, because it turns a 3-1-1 vote into a 2-2-1 vote
FAKEDIT: It doesn't, because it turns a 3-1-1 vote into a 2-2-1 vote
The rough plan is to summarize expressed opinions and confirm if that's what people want until consensus is reached I guess.
Most people have expressed opinions on the means of survival and vermin, but no one has really said anything about tribute yet.
I would prefer tribute in particular to be uniform in application to all titans, I tried to give advantages and disadvantages to each, but if expressed individually those might not map well between each titan.
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6 ZeV Proton
!niaga sekirts
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- UTC-8
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For tribute, I'd be fine with Slavery or Public Service. I have a slight preference for Public Service for thematic reasons, but it doesn't necessarily fit everyone the way Slavery can. Also, the Ichor loss may be punishing at least until worshipers have been created and indoctrinated in our lovable titanic cults, and either way, we'd get some awareness of what's going on in the outside world.
I went with public service as, to me at least, it kinda fit the whole 'we can kill you but then we'd have to spend so many years picking up the pieces of what was left after the utter destruction your death caused that its, frankly, better to just chain you up.' Of course I'd be fine with what the majority goes with, I just want whatever that is to enable some sort of consequence for our characters should we fuck up. Whether that be death, or something else.
On the public service tribute, I'm not entirely clear if there's meant to be something from each of us that we're doing, or something collectively from the prison?
Because I'm honestly not sure what public service the Twins would offer beyond their job as tributary. That's my main concern with that option; besides that, most options here seem to work for me.
Because I'm honestly not sure what public service the Twins would offer beyond their job as tributary. That's my main concern with that option; besides that, most options here seem to work for me.
Summation 1
The initial conceptualization of public service was something you do collectively as a function of your prison (such as holding up the sky or blocking some catastrophe or serving as the foundation of some elaborate machine) but I am fine with variations. Under the collective version which seems to be the rough current consensus, I believe your concerns can be safely laid to rest for now.
Essentially, how I was picturing it is that the titan-prison is very durable as a result of needing to hold titans, and being made of them, and so it is put like a rock in the gears of some horrible death-machine threatening to cause wide-spread devastation. As the prison resists the pressures of their public service, you receive damage, but you are actually lodged in the gears of some horrible death machine that threatens all that is, which gives you leverage and the potential to wreck a lot of things if you could somehow dislodge yourself or do something else clever.
Summary of Current Consensus:
Aided by exceptional mortal "heroes", and a traitorous sibling or two, you were brought down by your own flesh and blood, your divine offspring, who knew you most intimately, as well as your every secret and weakness. (mechanically the Offspring consensus) No notable malfunctioning of servants occurred, possibly resulting in great blood rains as they were purged from the heavens and future over-reliance on them by the titans.
Inadvertently, it is almost impossible to kill the Titans without destroying most of their works first or as a result of the process, and fortunately the verminous offspring, most vile and traitorous of your works, did not wish to die alongside you. At least one titan has been killed through herculean efforts dwarfing those required to build the titanic prison, causing substantial breaking and malfunctioning in all that is, which may potentially be exploited by the imprisoned titans.
From the eternally deeper falling deepest depths, the titan-prison is an infinite pillar on the horizon holding up the sky, literal Atlas. Feel the strain deep inside your soul. You will rarely receive summons to serve the whims of the vermin in your tertiary forms, perhaps as a jester in the heavenly court, or disposable meatshield. But by twisting just right under the never-ending pressure from above, you can snap shut the scrabbling gate-claws of the vermin and deny the summonings if you so choose.
Personally I'm predisposed to those who felled us being our off-spring. The Princelings of the universe being overthrown by their own creations, ones which have a familial connection even, to be too good. Especially as I'm somewhat a fan of the trope evil parents facing off against their children.
I'm not too attached to having the vermin be (exclusively) cattle, and it would interfere with making new mortals as Logos pointed out and proposed a reasonable softer counter-penalty for. Offspring works for me!
I'm happy with Offspring, sure. Make it a real Titanomachy! We're even filling the role of Atlas.
Onto the next issue, why we survived: I prefer 'Unkillable' here, because it makes the most sense for why they'd keep the titans that contribute nothing positive around.
I'm a little iffy on playing something that cannot be killed...but its shown real consequences can still befall our characters. And it does make sense as to why we'd be kept around, tied deeply as our characters are to vital functions of the world. Sure, they can kill us. But then they'd have to spend god knows how many millennia try to stitch the fabric of reality together again. And no matter the extent it'd probably be never the same.
I'm a bit more attached to Insurance for Survival in large part because I (prematurely) wrote it into Ca-E-Rhun's details a bit too tightly, but I'd be open to a blend with either of the other options, especially if the offspring weren't in perfect agreement about their motivations with regards to the whole locking-your-forebears-in-their-own-tormented-hides thing. At least for me, Greed looks like it could potentially be easier to flavor than Unkillable, but Unkillable does feel like closer fit with Insurance conceptually.
Offspring being the locus of the rebellion works for me.
For survival, it feels like there's a fair bit of overlap between unkillable and insurance, where the cost of killing us was too great, with the main divisor being whether we built things such that that was so, or if it was unintended. To me, unintended works more than having purposely built reality to fail if you die, if that makes sense?
As tropes go, obliviously cruel primordials seems like a better fit for Ca-E-Rhun than deliberately cruel ones, so I think I'll switch to supporting Unkillable if that helps.
FAKEDIT: It doesn't, because it turns a 3-1-1 vote into a 2-2-1 vote
I'm not sure how much we're actually counting votes here, but with confirmation I'm leaning towards unkillable and hanging around the grey area between it and insurance.
For tribute, I'd be fine with Slavery or Public Service. I have a slight preference for Public Service for thematic reasons, but it doesn't necessarily fit everyone the way Slavery can. Also, the Ichor loss may be punishing at least until worshipers have been created andindoctrinated in our lovable titanic cults, either way, we'd get some awareness of what's going on in the outside world.
I went with public service as, to me at least, it kinda fit the whole 'we can kill you but then we'd have to spend so many years picking up the pieces of what was left after the utter destruction your death caused that its, frankly, better to just chain you up.' Of course I'd be fine with what the majority goes with, I just want whatever that is to enable some sort of consequence for our characters should we fuck up. Whether that be death, or something else.
Public Service or Slavery are both fine with me; Public Service works well with Insurance/Unkillable, and Slavery is a good general imposition.
My preference would be slavery or tribute. I'm less certain about public service, because my titan at least doesn't seem to have any sort of natural 'holding up an element of the world' built in.
On the public service tribute, I'm not entirely clear if there's meant to be something from each of us that we're doing, or something collectively from the prison?
Because I'm honestly not sure what public service the Twins would offer beyond their job as tributary. That's my main concern with that option; besides that, most options here seem to work for me.
I'm not too attached to having the vermin be (exclusively) cattle, and it would interfere with making new mortals as Logos pointed out and proposed a reasonable softer counter-penalty for. Offspring works for me!
I'm happy with Offspring, sure. Make it a real Titanomachy! We're even filling the role of Atlas.
Onto the next issue, why we survived: I prefer 'Unkillable' here, because it makes the most sense for why they'd keep the titans that contribute nothing positive around.
I'm a little iffy on playing something that cannot be killed...but its shown real consequences can still befall our characters. And it does make sense as to why we'd be kept around, tied deeply as our characters are to vital functions of the world. Sure, they can kill us. But then they'd have to spend god knows how many millennia try to stitch the fabric of reality together again. And no matter the extent it'd probably be never the same.
I'm a bit more attached to Insurance for Survival in large part because I (prematurely) wrote it into Ca-E-Rhun's details a bit too tightly, but I'd be open to a blend with either of the other options, especially if the offspring weren't in perfect agreement about their motivations with regards to the whole locking-your-forebears-in-their-own-tormented-hides thing. At least for me, Greed looks like it could potentially be easier to flavor than Unkillable, but Unkillable does feel like closer fit with Insurance conceptually.
Offspring being the locus of the rebellion works for me.
For survival, it feels like there's a fair bit of overlap between unkillable and insurance, where the cost of killing us was too great, with the main divisor being whether we built things such that that was so, or if it was unintended. To me, unintended works more than having purposely built reality to fail if you die, if that makes sense?
As tropes go, obliviously cruel primordials seems like a better fit for Ca-E-Rhun than deliberately cruel ones, so I think I'll switch to supporting Unkillable if that helps.
FAKEDIT: It doesn't, because it turns a 3-1-1 vote into a 2-2-1 vote
I'm not sure how much we're actually counting votes here, but with confirmation I'm leaning towards unkillable and hanging around the grey area between it and insurance.
For tribute, I'd be fine with Slavery or Public Service. I have a slight preference for Public Service for thematic reasons, but it doesn't necessarily fit everyone the way Slavery can. Also, the Ichor loss may be punishing at least until worshipers have been created and
I went with public service as, to me at least, it kinda fit the whole 'we can kill you but then we'd have to spend so many years picking up the pieces of what was left after the utter destruction your death caused that its, frankly, better to just chain you up.' Of course I'd be fine with what the majority goes with, I just want whatever that is to enable some sort of consequence for our characters should we fuck up. Whether that be death, or something else.
Public Service or Slavery are both fine with me; Public Service works well with Insurance/Unkillable, and Slavery is a good general imposition.
My preference would be slavery or tribute. I'm less certain about public service, because my titan at least doesn't seem to have any sort of natural 'holding up an element of the world' built in.
On the public service tribute, I'm not entirely clear if there's meant to be something from each of us that we're doing, or something collectively from the prison?
Because I'm honestly not sure what public service the Twins would offer beyond their job as tributary. That's my main concern with that option; besides that, most options here seem to work for me.
Is this correct? Or would you like to alter it?
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Hm. I'm satisfied with it. I find some very interesting story potential in there being one non PC titan death during the war, and two NPC titans who essentially joined the side of the uprising. For their own reasons, I imagine. Perhaps disgusted by the cruelty of their siblings, heh?
6 ZeV Proton
!niaga sekirts
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I like this synthesis of the current consensus. Do we get any details on the slain titan, or will we have to investigate them in-game?
This setup works for me. Kind of an interesting bit of instability in that the prison is taking notable damage from being used to hold the sky up, and is made of components that will fail volatilely if the titans die from that strain beyond the impending skyfall.
IC Up
Ic thread up with introductory post.
Please feel free to ask questions if anything seems unclear or wrong, or you want more information. 😅
Please feel free to ask questions if anything seems unclear or wrong, or you want more information. 😅
Apparently you will need to investigate ingame, says my writing process.
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Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
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So to be clear, a Province/City worth of Mortals at 100% free will generates 1 ichor per turn? Or is it if they're at 50% plus?
EDIT: Because, uh, looking at costs we'd all go completely ichor-dry just making 1 set of ensouled mortals (plus terrain to house them) to generate 1 ichor per turn and that... doesn't seem like it's what you're aiming for?
EDIT: Because, uh, looking at costs we'd all go completely ichor-dry just making 1 set of ensouled mortals (plus terrain to house them) to generate 1 ichor per turn and that... doesn't seem like it's what you're aiming for?
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At 100%, for average levels of mortal worship. If they don't even know who you are, they're not going to be generating any income, and if they're super fanatically devoted they might be reaching 2 ichor per turn. Or 1 ichor for fanatic worship at Taboo level free will.
Generally the Titans went for economies of scale to get some nice ichor revenue flowing in the past rather than trying to make any particular group of mortals particularly devoted, which may have been a mistake.
I think
Do you feel these numbers are still too unforgiving? I did bump up the starting ichor some because I thought they were a little unforgiving.
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Kadmus
Dragon's teeth are surprisingly hard to sow
- Location
- Devon
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- He/Him
Ah, yeah, assuming co-operation and that created mortals and souls can generate Ichor for Titans that are not their creators it works out.
(I'm not assuming co-operation on behalf of my paranoid seething ball of relentless hate, but I have a way to justify him making stuff and letting other people use it. All the better to spy on them, after all.)
(I'm not assuming co-operation on behalf of my paranoid seething ball of relentless hate, but I have a way to justify him making stuff and letting other people use it. All the better to spy on them, after all.)
Worshippers are not creator specific
Changelog 1
Changelog: Removed proto-typing mortals as a neccessary step for mortal creation as it seems like an unnecessary ichor tax and is probably needlessly confusing.
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How much ichor would it cost to, essentially, 'feel' around the prison. Testing for limits, and where some of the weaker spots may lie, ect.
Free or arbitrary amounts of potency of your choice, rolling for success.
You would probably need to spend at least a turn in your duties to form a reliable baseline for either of those, since you're still quite new to this. You estimate that based on how fast titans recovered ichor before this whole mess, that you're probably going to be siphoning something like ~15-30 ichor per turn depending on just how badly your various traumas and imprisonment effected your ichor recovery (which is *bigshrug* based on your current knowledge)
Based on your knowledge of your own capabilities at channeling ichor, mostly from experiences in co-operation with other titans, you can probably handle up to ~90 ichor per turn, but with the rigid infrastructure you have been forced into, you can't always adapt well to sudden ichor increases, any increase beyond ~4 ichor per turn will probably be beyond your ability to drain before the other titans squirrel it away somewhere in their byzantine biology beyond your reach, and then the horrible vermin definitely can't blame you for the flaws in their terribly made trash system right? It'd be a shame if you just couldn't keep up with all this ichor income, oh no!
You have no idea on the construction of the actual siphon leading out of the prison, but it might be safe to assume the vermin were aware they are dealing with titans when building it.
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