Which is honestly, the truth. Not completely human, but human by enough. By actions, by emotions, by familly ties and shared love. It's more correct to say, that Elas's body is not human. But herself? That's another matter.
[X] [Her] Yes, this is mother.
Are you claiming that only Humans can love now? Becuase again I think thats a massive assumption and one that places too much importance and bias towards "humanity" tbh. And we've seen little to no reason to suspect that so far. Especially with how our new possible mother figure has been treating us.
Also if you really want to say that her mindset and relationships makes her human even though you also admit that her body is completely not... then why are youalso voting to make a mother figure of some monsteous being? Ifs those relationships are what make her human after all then it just seems rather counter productiove to in one moment vote for the choice that we're human because of how we think but then in the next vote to accept that a new mother figure from a didferent species to replace (or atleast sit on tier with) our current human one.
[X] [Humanity] Aren't completely Human.
[X] [Next?] Look around in this area for something you can feed him.
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
It is rather odd how you completely ignored the very first part of what you quoted. The very phrase I prefaced it with is the reason I voted, despite not believing she is.
Why are people saying ghat you need to be human to be a person? That you need to be human to have a healthy mindstate? Because it sounds to me like youre saying anything non-human and intelligent must obviously not be a person or have any sort of healthy or viable mindset if they dont think like us. And I really have to disagree.
Elsa isn't human, thats been made drastically clear over this fic and this last chapter in specific. Denying the truth does nothing but make her lie to herself about her very existence. And that will do much more harm than acknowledging her differences and accepting her past.
I'm certainly not saying any of the absolutes that you are ascribing to 'people'. I'm saying Elsa has no other options than human or varying degrees of not human. Elsa hasn't been given the option of being a different sort of person. She's given the option of picking where on the human/not-human continuum she lies.
In my own interpretation, Elsa is a living void. She is human and nothing simultaneously. Picking full human is automatically picking nothing as well.
0+A=A
I see this as a question of how much of her humanity she is rejecting
We/Elsa cant keep pretending to be something we're not forever. And it will only hurt us if we keep putting this off for further and further down the line when we have less chances to adopt and learn about ourself.
Are you claiming that only Humans can love now? Becuase again I think thats a massive assumption and one that places too much importance and bias towards "humanity" tbh. And we've seen little to no reason to suspect that so far. Especially with how our new possible mother figure has been treating us.
Are you claiming that only Humans can love now? Becuase again I think thats a massive assumption and one that places too much importance and bias towards "humanity" tbh. And we've seen little to no reason to suspect that so far. Especially with how our new possible mother figure has been treating us.
Whole vote is focused on mindset. Three choices are respectively described as:
- Humanity is just a word.
- Don't ignore the truth, but don't throw away your humanity.
- The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.
A mindset. It describes of how Elsa sees herself. It have nothing to do with capability of love - but all with capability of connection to average human and human society. Whether she feel part of it, or she feels outsider excluded from it - and indeferent to it.
Third choice? She feels part of society. She cares for people in Arendale and in world in general. She consider herself bound to her possition in society. First choice is 'f**k everythin' with human society being irrevelant to her. It is giving up any instincive ties one feels to fellow human. And sure, it would not preclude her from feeling love for her familly. But if she know what people in Arendale are dying, she would likely just shrug, the same way if she heard that deers are dying in the forest - she is not human after all.
Middle choice is a middle road, and really, it describes a truth. She is not entirely human, in her emotions, in her canibalistic hunger - but she does not want to discard the warmth, she does not want to be indifferent. She may not fit well in human society - but it's still her home.
So glad to find someone who knows the actual quote instead of the stupid "blood is thicker than water" misuse that is the exact opposite of the original meaning. Always brings a smile to my face.
You...might be a demigod. Or an undead. Or something else you don't even know yet. But whatever you are, you've still got some humanity inside you. Don't ignore the truth, but don't throw away your humanity.
Never good to ignore what we are. We are human, yet we are more. Self-acceptance is key to both a healthy mind, and very likely to using our powers as well. In many mythos, - and from the feel of things, here as well - power comes from within. Magic is more than saying the right words over the right ingredients, or waving a stupid wand... (Wands are dumb. If you need a wand for magic, how did they ever get invented? Who put the magic 8nto the first one, without magic to use? Fuck wands.) but having the right mindset as well.
Seeing ourselves as completely human would likely blunt our abilities, limit our growth as we refuse to accept the part of ourselves that our power springs from. Seeing ourselves as inhuman would likely maximize our potential, but also have the downside of shaping us mentally and spiritually in a way that further alienates us from others.
It's something of a life story for me. I'm both black and white. Not one or the other. All my life whites called me black, while blacks called me white. There were expectations of whites that I would act in typical "black" ways, and whenever I acted in ways that were typically "white" my "black card" would get "pulled". But ignoring the choice, accepting both? Meant that I didn't limit myself to only enjoying and doing things acceptable to the stereotypes of one race. I was able to say fuck that and enjoy whatever I liked from either, despite people trying to force me to choose all my life, trying to make me fit into a box and limit my choices to what goes for one race or the other. As such, I feel some insight into this choice. It is a mental choice that determines how we see ourselves and the truth is simple.
We are both human and inhuman. The bridge between mortals and the magic, between Gods and Men like Gilgamesh of Old was meant to be. We are of both worlds, and can thus help each understand the other. We can fully enjoy being inhuman to the extent we desire, while also fully enjoying being human to the extent we desire. We have no "rules" we must follow about what we can do or can enjoy. We can break boundaries because we ourselves are a breaking of boundaries. We can walk in both worlds and feel equally at home, because we know what and who we are, no matter what others try to pressure us into being.
OOC Note: This would probably help us a fuck-ton later when someone or something tries to get us to give into temptation and become a monster. If we have truly accepted ourselves, no one can change us. But denying ourselves, to either extreme, human or monster, means we are too weak to truly accept who we are, and leaves weaknesses in our mental state that can be exploited.
It will probably also give bonuses to any humanity and sanity checks. Accepting our humanity should make humanity checks easier, but accepting our inhumanity should make bearing things that break normal people's sanity easier.
[X] [Next?] Look around in this area for something you can feed him.
Well, I already had "look around for food" in the original plan so... Yeah. Because if we take him with us, we need him at full strength or as close to it as we can get. And I'm not eager to try purifying the corpses because that was a hard check to pass per the QM, and I'd hate to have him eat something we think is fixed but isn't and make our new pet sick all over again. Bad idea.
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
I'd prefer a sort of in between option, where we give her the benefit of the doubt, but not fully trust her since we can be stabbed in the back. None exists though... I guess I can make another write-in. Hmmm.
[X] [Humanity] Aren't completely Human.
[X] [Next?] Look around in this area for something you can feed him. [X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
So glad to find someone who knows the actual quote instead of the stupid "blood is thicker than water" misuse that is the exact opposite of the original meaning. Always brings a smile to my face.
While we should not ignore our nature, we also have to be careful not to think ourselves as better. Her Mother is fully human but she is the strongest character in the Quest.
Because magic before wands was impractical and cumbersome. Without wands, you would normally have to rely on rituals, prayers, sacrifices, and potions.
While we should not ignore our nature, we also have to be careful not to think ourselves as better. Her Mother is fully human but she is the strongest character in the Quest.
I'm saying acknowledge, not take ourselves as some higher race or somesuch. Althouth, frankly with fantasy races, one could argue for an "actual" higher race. If they have everything we do, plus magic - technically they are mathematically "higher" but that's still a nasty bit of personality I'd also rather avoid, especially in a fic like this one. Because while the math may say one thing, the personalities that result from such things - not so sweet.
Because magic before wands was impractical and cumbersome. Without wands, you would normally have to rely on rituals, prayers, sacrifices, and potions.
[X] [Humanity] Aren't completely Human.
[X] [Next?] Look around in this area for something you can feed him.
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
[X] [Humanity] Aren't completely Human.
[X] [Next?] Look around in this area for something you can feed him.
-[X] Maybe there are fish in the river? If so you could try catching them with ice magic.
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
Seeing ourselves as completely human would likely blunt our abilities, limit our growth as we refuse to accept the part of ourselves that our power springs from. Seeing ourselves as inhuman would likely maximize our potential, but also have the downside of shaping us mentally and spiritually in a way that further alienates us from others.
That would make sense if magic was mechanical like say in a D&D game. But... here magic seems much more intent based. We didn't have to learn a spell and gather the ingredients and say the correct words and make the correct motions to help the wolf. We just wanted to, so we did. That simple.
Since magic is intent based, it would be how the caster sees us that matters, not how we see ourselves. Much like a spell that hurts enemies, it is who the caster sees as an enemy that matters. So a spell that hurts monsters, it would be who and what the caster sees as a monster. Not whether we see ourselves as a monster. Unless the intent of the spell was to test us somehow.
If we vote to feed the wolf corpses that we purify, will we have to roll again to purify them? Or will we just be able to do it now that we know how? Because that one detail changes everything.
If we don't have to roll again, I'm all for it - but if we do have to roll again... that's dangerous as hell, and I only have one flux point to offer. I'd prefer to save it for something else.
@Metaldragon868 - I am wondering if it is viable:
- drain heat and energy from air, water, earth and forest around
- transfer greater part of it to a Wolf.
It is cold and desolate place, where Wolf had could not find the food. But desolate is far from Void. There is still heat, light and life.
And here? At this moment? There is no prying eyes, and very little to lose with attempt.
[X] [Humanity] Are still Human
[X] [Next?] Look around in this area for something you can feed him.
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
@Metaldragon868 - I am wondering if it is viable:
- drain heat and energy from air, water, earth and forest around
- transfer greater part of it to a Wolf.
It is cold and desolate place, where Wolf had could not find the food. But desolate is far from Void. There is still heat, light and life.
And here? At this moment? There is no prying eyes, and very little to lose with attempt.
Yes, it is a thing that is possible for you, and it's even something you could technically do right now.
But you'd need a natural crit to land it.
As said in the quoted passage above, "You Are Not Great At This"
Not only are you reversing your natural processes, turning energy you consume into energy you emit, but you are also converting energy into mass. The Wolf isn't just lacking in energy, he's hurt and starved. He needs raw materials that he is sorely lacking in order to recover.
You'd have to translate the raw energy you're bringing to the surface, an already difficult task, into specific and usable mass.
Now, there are technically other ways to go about this, but you don't have access to any of them at the moment.
What you did earlier with the potion was mostly the potion's work. You provided raw Life, but the alchemy did the heavy lifting.
One way to look at it is this:
One time your sister asked you for a wrench while she was fixing up a car. Now you have to install a transmission by yourself.
it's not perfect, but you get the idea. This is way out of your depth, but one day you should be able to. Maybe. Still working on that skill chart.
If we vote to feed the wolf corpses that we purify, will we have to roll again to purify them? Or will we just be able to do it now that we know how? Because that one detail changes everything.
If we don't have to roll again, I'm all for it - but if we do have to roll again... that's dangerous as hell, and I only have one flux point to offer. I'd prefer to save it for something else.
Yeah, no, you can totally just purify all the corpses now. You know how to purify something of the Infection, so you can do it all you want. I was originally going to have you just go ahead and feed him the corpses, but then I was like, "Maybe they'd consider making Elsa feed a wolf dead men, women, and children a bit much? I outta give them a choice."
Apparently, my fears were unfounded.
Nice.
But yeah, you know what to do, and it's not like you're doing it to a living person. The Wolf was so difficult, in part, because you were also trying not to kill him. If you make a mistake in the corpses, who's going to complain? Worst case isn't that bad.
I'd still roll to see how well it went, but that's more a case of "How many times do you fuckup before you got it down pat?". You'd need under 5 to actually "fail" it, and only a 1 would actually be bad. In no scenerio do you re-poison the Wolf. At the very least, it knows better than you what's infected.
Oh!
right, the "to human or not to human" thing or whatever.
This has a larger impact down the line in this arc. Keep in mind the title, Crucible.
Now, if you have any other questions, please tag me in them. It makes it very easy for me to find them. I'm a little busy at the moment. Also ill. I think I'll call the vote on Saturday or Sunday. Depends on how I'm feeling.
In any case, make your changes as desired.
See you later.
Adhoc vote count started by Metaldragon868 on Jan 18, 2018 at 11:59 PM, finished with 2196 posts and 33 votes.
[X] [Next?] Look around in this area for something you can feed him.
-[X] Maybe there are fish in the river? If so you could try catching them with ice magic.
Yeah, no, you can totally just purify all the corpses now. You know how to purify something of the Infection, so you can do it all you want. I was originally going to have you just go ahead and feed him the corpses, but then I was like, "Maybe they'd consider making Elsa feed a wolf dead men, women, and children a bit much? I outta give them a choice."
Apparently, my fears were unfounded.
Nice.
But yeah, you know what to do, and it's not like you're doing it to a living person. The Wolf was so difficult, in part, because you were also trying not to kill him. If you make a mistake in the corpses, who's going to complain? Worst case isn't that bad.
I'd still roll to see how well it went, but that's more a case of "How many times do you fuckup before you got it down pat?". You'd need under 5 to actually "fail" it, and only a 1 would actually be bad. In no scenerio do you re-poison the Wolf. At the very least, it knows better than you what's infected.
This leaves me even more certain that our decision here is important. Let's not deny who and what we are shall we? In either case, of the lie of "We're a complete and utter monster," or of "We're totally just a normal human!"
Self acceptance is something many people aim for, and never achieve. But it is one of the universally accepted healthy mindsets. If we can't accept ourselves, how can we expect anyone else (like our father) to accept us? We'll always be alone, having only Anna and mother for support.
[X] [Humanity] Aren't completely Human.
You...might be a demigod. Or an undead. Or something else you don't even know yet. But whatever you are, you've still got some humanity inside you. Don't ignore the truth, but don't throw away your humanity.
Because we aren't. We're not a monster, but not just a human either. Something of both. To put it another way... A mix between an elf and a human is called "half-elven" by humans, but elves call them "half-human". Neither side sees them as one of themselves, not totally. We are not one or the other. We are betwixt and between.
[X] [Next?] Feed him corpses you "purify"
-[X] If there's anything else good for eating that we happen to find, go right ahead.
The QM verified that we (effectively) don't need to re-roll to purify, so yeah, let the wolf eat the dead meat. Also because this is some sort of spiritual journey, and the wolf and all this is in our minds, or our soul has traveled somewhere, so if we are fine with the wolf eating dead bodies, it's a step closer to us being okay with eating them too. Especially if this wolf is a representation of some part of ourselves. And I plan on eating Pan's body later...
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
Speaking of, maybe this is our mother somehow. A mental representation of her? Still not sure, depends on if this place is real and we are just here in spirit, or if it is all a mind game on the QMs part, a mental trial and nothing more... @Metaldragon868 question. How many updates do we have before we're out of "this"? Because I want to try something crazy as we leave, and I'm gonna need flux points to pull it off, so I need to know how long I have to make omakes.
You...might be a demigod. Or an undead. Or something else you don't even know yet. But whatever you are, you've still got some humanity inside you. Don't ignore the truth, but don't throw away your humanity.
[X] [Next?] Feed him corpses you "purify"
-[X] If there's anything else good for eating that we happen to find, go right ahead.
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
[X] [Humanity] Aren't completely Human.
[X] [Next?] Feed him corpses you "purify"
-[X] If there's anything else good for eating that we happen to find, go right ahead.
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
The last one especially. Finding whatever protection we can is vital. Also, we haven't been fully human since the very start.
You...might be a demigod. Or an undead. Or something else you don't even know yet. But whatever you are, you've still got some humanity inside you. Don't ignore the truth, but don't throw away your humanity.
This is an accurate assessment.
[X] [Next?] Feed him corpses you "purify"
-[X] If there's anything else good for eating that we happen to find, go right ahead.
[X] [Her] Yes. This might not be mother, but She wants to protect you.
