How to have a fantasy kingdom fight the US Armed Forces?

There's also the trope where the 'fantasy world' turns out to actually be the same as the modern world, just in a post-apocalyptic state after magic and supernatural creatures started appearing and civilization was destroyed.

(I kind of just want to talk about Bastard!! in this thread for some reason).
 
There's also the trope where the 'fantasy world' turns out to actually be the same as the modern world, just in a post-apocalyptic state after magic and supernatural creatures started appearing and civilization was destroyed.

(I kind of just want to talk about Bastard!! in this thread for some reason).
Wait, no, that sounds really pertinent to this fantasy vs modern military thread. What else do you want to tell about Bastard!!!?
 
Well, if you go with a China-sized and resourced version, because you're going to go through a lot of troops, an Uruk equivalent could work as the main infantry. Say tens of millions of them fieldable at once, essentially all combatants, with injury resistance, stamina and general insensitivity to casualties / discipline problems. Good replacement rate either from how they breed or how you make them.

Now unlike the Posleen, give them decent command and control. Not necessarily Sauron bullshit (which the USA might have to nuke spam to stop) but a chain of command with a vague idea of what they are doing and some ability to communicate. Telepathy between wizards or something.

To build it out, you would want some high destruction heavy units, mages and something (portals if being cheap) to make the tech country keep decent reserves in their population centers rather than all in your face.
 
Wait, no, that sounds really pertinent to this fantasy vs modern military thread. What else do you want to tell about Bastard!!!?

Basic lore/spoilers. I might get some things wrong since it's been years since I read it.

The series is based on a Christian cosmology, with God, Satan, angels, demons, etc. At some point in the future, humanity captured an injured angel, but they didn't know what they were dealing with, other than it being a powerful extraterrestrial being. Scientists experimented on it and eventually used it as the core of a superweapon called Anthrax (similar to Jojo, many of the characters and powers in the series are named after bands and musicians). Anthrax was basically an artificial kaiju powered by the captured angel and controlled by a supercomputer. It had abilities like flight, teleportation, regeneration, bending space around it to deflect attacks, etc. It could boil entire oceans with its breath and release shockwaves more powerful than nuclear explosions.

As as you can probably guess, it turned on mankind and wiped out civilization. It was eventually defeated by a hero using something called the Dragon Knight, which was essentially a magic/divine mecha. The battle lasted for days and reshaped the surface of the earth, erasing all familiar continents and even changing the earth's orbit. Anthrax was eventually defeated but not killed and sealed away.

As a result of the battle, nearly all of humanity died, and most history and scientific knowledge was lost. Humans had to rebuild from scratch. Also as a result of so much magical power being unleashed on Earth, magic became a much more common thing, and fantasy beings like elves, dragons, and undead started appearing. That's why the setting seems like a generic medieval fantasy at first, as it takes place hundreds of years after the apocalypse.

The protagonist, Dark Schneider (I hesitate to say 'hero' because... well, the title of the series describes him well) is a legendary and feared dark wizard who was also sealed away, and currently has to share a body with a teenage boy, and in this form his powers are severely diminished, and he slowly regains them over the first part of the series. He has to face his former subordinates and others who are trying to revive Anthrax, so he finds himself on the side of the good guys somewhat coincidentally.

Anthrax is eventually revived, but at this point Dark Schneider has regained enough power to effectively one-shot it with his strongest spell, Judas Priest. However this just releases the true angel form inside it, which was held captive for centuries. The angel's true form is much more powerful than Anthrax, and naturally it's pissed at what the humans did to it, so it tries to destroy the Earth in retaliation. Dark Schneider manages to defeat it and banish it to Hell, but it's later revealed that that type of angel was basically fodder and there are angels and demons that are thousands to millions of times stronger. DS has to descend through Hell to obtain new powers and become a Majin (demonic being) to stand a chance against them. He eventually ends up facing off against the Archangel Uriel, who has become corrupted by Satanic powers and fallen, not only vastly increasing his power but also making him an insane being bent on the destruction of the universe. He and DS nearly destroy the galaxy in their fight, not doing so only because the fight shifts to another dimension (but not before they destroy the black hole in the galaxy's center). DS pulls out all the stops to defeat Uriel, including summoning a much more powerful version of the Dragon Knight, and eventually triumphs. And the series really hasn't continued much beyond that due to the author taking forever to update.

Satan is shown to be much more powerful than Dark Schneider and Fallen Uriel, being able to kill an Archangel with a single punch, and his true form being larger than planets and destroying a galaxy just by flying through it. God is of course even stronger, having created the universe and all dimensions, but there is also a mysterious 'Anti-God' that Satan worships, which is implied to be God's dark counterpart. Dark Schneider is also revealed to be the "Adam of Darkness", essentially the evil counterpart to the messiah/Jesus, the "Adam of Light", and their destiny is to fight and one of them will destroy the other, as they are the only ones who can destroy each other. But DS doesn't care, and essentially tells Satan to piss off, as he doesn't want to serve anyone or be part of anyone's plan.
 
Well, I think the core problem is that any fantasy world that is medieval coded doesn't have the population to be a threat.

If the food production is not magical, then population is limited by farming technology.
(And the hero from a farm is a trope, so I'd assume most farms aren't magical, or aren't using much magic)

This limits population density which for a given area thus limits population.

Now it's almost universally true that high level mages are incredibly rare, 1 in 10k? 1 in 100K? 1 in 1M?
Exact number would vary a lot setting to setting but since power fantasy is about being special most of those people aren't strong wizards or even wizards at all.

In many DnD settings there is roughly only a single digit number of people with a level over the teens.
Even if we assume they have 100 people over level 15.

And they have a handful of magical monsters and creatures.
Lets assume another 100.

200 just isn't enough.

I'd suspect high level fighters and monsters could be killed by enough bullets. (In fact any system with HP but not huge DR is gonna find bullets to be a problem)

This is why I suspect the discussion on high level mages being a threat misses the point that, their just aren't enough of them, and each time they do that (In any setting where they don't cast through scrying miles away) they risk death.

And even then just the massive millitary size the modern world puts out is it's own threat.


What I suspect would be a major threat would be the idea of Rituals, that can do almost anything.
Information warfare as others have said.

I don't think most DnD settings could win without 11th level magic or other fuckery.

Other settings it depends on the population they can field and how strong that population is.
 
Most DnD settings have mid to low level threats that are flat-out immune to non-magical damage, and can likewise ignore non-magical defenses. That's a serious problem for the side that is entirely non-magical.
 
Most DnD settings have mid to low level threats that are flat-out immune to non-magical damage, and can likewise ignore non-magical defenses. That's a serious problem for the side that is entirely non-magical.

I doubt that in any real world physics they would be immune entierly. It's weird to think of something surviving literally 100 million nukes at point blank but dying to magic missle.


Aren't there golem or something to make up for the lack of numbers?

In most DnD settings no. Though the undead and such would make a real threat to some extent.
Like anything low to mid fantasy is in trouble, and high fantasy auto wins situationally.
 
I doubt that in any real world physics they would be immune entierly. It's weird to think of something surviving literally 100 million nukes at point blank but dying to magic missle.




In most DnD settings no. Though the undead and such would make a real threat to some extent.
Like anything low to mid fantasy is in trouble, and high fantasy auto wins situationally.
I mean if the thing is more or less incorporeal it's not that much of a stretch. Thinking ghosts, demons and air/ fire elementals specifically here. Magic interacts directly with their essence, while no amount of purely physical force does.

More generally magic and enchantment is clearly capable of making a fantasy army OOC enough to win, after all magic covers a whole lot of possibilities and every one thing may or may not not viable depending on how much of it could be fielded or produced.

A single guy with a unique and legendary Excalibur expy that cuts through anything and an enchanted scabbard that causes any attack to do no harm to it's owner may not be a problem if you just bomb his position until he's buried under rubble and can't move, but even a thousand such genuinely invincible soldiers may not be stoppable by any modern force.
 
Last edited:
I mean, consider a necromancer. Not only can they throw vast armies of dead at you, any US troops they kill get added to their ranks.

Short of USA expy deploying nukes, they're fucked.
 
Not... really? Most require headshots. It's actually very hard to get perfect headshots. You can blow the shit out of them with mortars and cannon, but they keep coming.

Short of carpet bombing or, again, nukes, you're in trouble.
Very few zombies require headshots. No zombie video game ever does, enough torso shots always take them down eventually. It's more that characters in zombie stories are rarely allowed a full military company and given enough automatic weapons and ammunition to physically tear zombies to pieces by sheer volume of small arms fire. Zombie genre characters are also generally not allowed to just roll dozens of tanks/ IFVs over them.
 
Last edited:
Depending on the story, zombies can vary a lot in speed, strength, durability, intelligence, etc.
 
I doubt that in any real world physics they would be immune entierly. It's weird to think of something surviving literally 100 million nukes at point blank but dying to magic missle.

They don't exist in any real world physics. They completely ignore it because they're fantasy monsters from a magical fantasy world. Of course they're weird to think of in the real world, that's sort of the point of the entire fantasy genre.
 
I mean if the thing is more or less incorporeal it's not that much of a stretch. Thinking ghosts, demons and air/ fire elementals specifically here. Magic interacts directly with their essence, while no amount of purely physical force does.

Elemental damage isn't physical in DnD.

So tracer rounds, or explosions would still kill them.
 
Or you just drop something like a D&D 3.5 Shadow (DR 3, so a challenge for a party of level 3 characters). It's incorporeal and so takes damage only from magic (and a 50% chance of ignoring that, if it's from a physical magic source), can pass right through matter, and ignores all physical barriers. Oh, and everything it kills rises within a minute as another Shadow under its control. 1 Shadow would be an exponential extinction event for modern humanity.

On the other end of things you have, I dunno, Game of Thrones, where the only chance they'd have would be to bleed on US soil maybe if they're lucky.

Fantasy covers such a huge range it's very hard to come up with a coherent answer, really.
 
Well, I think the core problem is that any fantasy world that is medieval coded doesn't have the population to be a threat.
Eh, I don't think that's actually an assumption you can make, for several reasons. Most obvious is size, as (particularly with martial arts fantasy settings) it's not uncommon for fantasy settings to be set on worlds of much, much greater size than earth, or occupying multiple dimensions or just having significant underground/water/etc. populations, or whatever. You're not necessarily dealing with an earth like world with human like population distribution or density patterns.

Food is a possible limitation, but... again, fantasy setting. It doesn't have to be limited to earth standard agriculture, not just in relation to magic infrastructure, but in terms of what's edible and how well it grows by default. There's settings where food scarcity is a significant issue limiting populations, but there's also ones where it's just... not. Due to some superfood or another, or spontaneously generating food sources, or whatever.

Construction limitations are another possibility, but. Again. Different materials, different limitations. Sometimes atmospheric magic just passively strengthens stuff so casually building multistory buildings with medieval construction methods is no big deal, fantasy settings with multi-million population cities being fairly common (often partially because the countryside will kill you and sprawling is much more difficult than on less deadly planets, so they actually have remarkably high population density in specific areas).

Transit is more of a potential concern, especially with larger planets, but generally settings with that sort of issue has some kind of solution -- domesticated wildlife, portal/space bending methods, people just being faster on average, so on.

Almost all of that is particularly noticeable with xianxia settings, for what it's worth -- it's pretty common in those for it to be settings that would view the entire earth population as a drop in the bucket, and just sort of casually litter around NYC scale cities and junk. They can get pretty ridiculous in scope.
 
Weather control magic, mass invisibility, sufficiently long range magic missiles, magically fast tunneling, growing forests for cover, flying wizards shooting lightening bolts (can modern AA missiles target a man sized heat/ radar signature?)

Most of those don't work.

The problem is inherently speed based. Bullets are to fast to cast a spell to in response, and magic is almost always limited so keeping it up forever doesn't work.

Missiles can fly at mach 27.

The limit on speed isn't technological, it's a limit because otherwise they would reach terminal velocity and fly into space.
We can and do make them faster.

That's 20 THOUSAND miles per hour.
That's 10 times faster than a .50 cal

So in order to stop one of those missiles you would need to be able to cast magic fast enough to intercept a .50 cal then by ten times faster.

So unless your magic is reactive (it shouldn't be to a never seen before threat) or uses time fuckery to let you react at 25 times faster than the speed of sound. Your kind fucked.

Most obvious is size, as (particularly with martial arts fantasy settings) it's not uncommon for fantasy settings to be set on worlds of much, much greater size than earth,

That doesn't actually matter to force projection. Soldiers on another continent don't help you.

Population density is incredibly important, and if your growing super foods and teleporting them and you can have a city like new york in setting.
Then it's incredibly high magic and not really medieval coded anyway.

Like I keep going back to DnD as the most standard example.

Anyone with sufficently high magic is quite probably fine.
Naruto-verse comes to mind.
Beserk.
One Piece.

But most magical settings don't have an answer to ICBMs.
 
Electronics and the combustion engine is really the point where Fantasy falls irreversibly behind. Unless they can move , gather and process data, and create energy as fast as the aforementioned, they have lost already.

Which is why I keep bringing jets up. If Fantasy armies can defeat jets, they can defeat anything we can throw at them.
 
Most of those don't work.

The problem is inherently speed based. Bullets are to fast to cast a spell to in response, and magic is almost always limited so keeping it up forever doesn't work.

Missiles can fly at mach 27.

The limit on speed isn't technological, it's a limit because otherwise they would reach terminal velocity and fly into space.
We can and do make them faster.

That's 20 THOUSAND miles per hour.
That's 10 times faster than a .50 cal

So in order to stop one of those missiles you would need to be able to cast magic fast enough to intercept a .50 cal then by ten times faster.

So unless your magic is reactive (it shouldn't be to a never seen before threat) or uses time fuckery to let you react at 25 times faster than the speed of sound. Your kind fucked.



That doesn't actually matter to force projection. Soldiers on another continent don't help you.

Population density is incredibly important, and if your growing super foods and teleporting them and you can have a city like new york in setting.
Then it's incredibly high magic and not really medieval coded anyway.

Like I keep going back to DnD as the most standard example.

Anyone with sufficently high magic is quite probably fine.
Naruto-verse comes to mind.
Beserk.
One Piece.

But most magical settings don't have an answer to ICBMs.
When I said weather control magic I was thinking a cabal of wizards summoning a hurricane for a significant period of time over a battlefield. Sure an ICBM could maybe maintain heading but I interpreted the question to be more about hellfire missiles and F-35s which Idon't know for sure but I imagine would have trouble with 150 mph gusts. Also being underground, a very dense forest and in an unknown location are all well known counters to missiles and modern aircraft both.
 
When I said weather control magic I was thinking a cabal of wizards summoning a hurricane for a significant period of time over a battlefield. Sure an ICBM could maybe maintain heading but I interpreted the question to be more about hellfire missiles and F-35s which Idon't know for sure but I imagine would have trouble with 150 mph gusts. Also being underground, a very dense forest and in an unknown location are all well known counters to missiles and modern aircraft both.

Heck, a spell to bring major fog to any battlefield would go a huge way to defeating the moderns alone.
 
Back
Top