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Hostage Situation [Worm AU Fanfic]

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Ack said:
It seems that officialdom cooperated in some way to hide the fact of the problematic adoption:
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The thing is they can't. There is not clause that lets someone use their discretion to choose. Just because you are part of the government doesn't mean you can break the law. The law is that she would go to her blood relative or legal relative, or failing that into the foster care system. Carol would have been required to adopt her out of the foster care system. If that happened, Amy has a good case for claiming that the adoption was illegal due to the fact that the state didn't contact her blood relatives. She has grandparents somewhere, or cousins, or someone somewhere.

Just about the only way that this could work legally is if her father was working to facilitate the adoption. He and only he could make this work without being a huge open process that anyone could track.

And if HE decided that she was to be raised by who she was raised by, then that's that. One of Amy's blood relatives would have to sue to get custody, rather than the requirement of the state to try to offer her to them.

*not actually a lawyer, but I am seeking to adopt. It has come up in conversations with people who do actually deal with this kinds of issues.
 
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In any universe that doesn't have "Marvel" in its name, there ought to be strong resistance to laws that arbitrarily treat people differently in ways it's not actually relevant to just because they or their parents (Amy wasn't actually a parahuman at the time) have powers.

The fact that the Youth Guard exists at all means that there are people (other than parahumans and their parents themselves, which aren't a viable voting bloc and could therefore be safely ignored) who care about the rights of parahuman children.

Franklymydear said:
Problem solved, matches with how canon played out.
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No, it doesn't match how canon played out, since it doesn't match with Lisa's declaration that the process involved forgery and therefore was by definition not 100% legitimate.
 
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Franklymydear said:
1 minute of thinking gives:
3 decades of parahumans, at least 2 decades of children of parahumans, laws would have changed, parahuman children have different laws that apply to them.

Problem solved, matches with how canon played out.
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Uh...why? I can see just about any laws being changed due to parahumans, but adoption laws?

That said, it's canon that the adoption got through on false records, as cited above, so that's that.

Edit: Damn ninjas! I'll get you one day, you hear me?
 
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Random832 said:
No, it doesn't match how canon played out, since it doesn't match with Lisa's declaration that the process involved forgery and therefore was by definition not 100% legitimate.
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It's stated that they didn't want Amy to pass through the system because of the risks involved. Forgery to get her through and into her current family. Happy now? It's not like that sort of thing doesn't happen in real life to fast track people or objects through different departments without them actually having to go through each in turn.
 
blackshadow111 said:
Uh...why? I can see just about any laws being changed due to parahumans, but adoption laws?

That said, it's canon that the adoption got through on false records, as cited above, so that's that.

Edit: Damn ninjas! I'll get you one day, you hear me?
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Cool, so Amy is one court ordered DNA test away from proving that her "mother" committed kidnapping and falsified her birth certificate. As this is likely a crime without a statute of limitations, she could push for Carol to be thrown in jail.

Amy needs to call defacs.

Franklymydear said:
It's stated that they didn't want Amy to pass through the system because of the risks involved. Forgery to get her through and into her current family. Happy now? It's not like that sort of thing doesn't happen in real life to fast track people or objects through different departments without them actually having to go through each in turn.
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Just because someone official did it, doesn't mean they didn't break the law.
 
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Franklymydear said:
It's stated that they didn't want Amy to pass through the system because of the risks involved. Forgery to get her through and into her current family. Happy now? It's not like that sort of thing doesn't happen in real life to fast track people or objects through different departments without them actually having to go through each in turn.
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If there is a legitimate "fast track" process, and it was used in this case, it wouldn't require anything to be falsified.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
Cool, so Amy is one court ordered DNA test away from proving that her "mother" committed kidnapping and falsified her birth certificate. As this is likely a crime without a statute of limitations, she could push for Carol to be thrown in jail.

Amy needs to call defacs.



Just because someone official did it, doesn't mean they didn't break the law.
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Amy doesn't want Carol put in jail. She doesn't want the BB PRT to go down in a flaming heap. She just wants her father back.
 
Random832 said:
If there is a legitimate "fast track" process, and it was used in this case, it wouldn't require anything to be falsified.
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We are talking about a country that if a blood relative decides to make a fuss 1-10 years after an adoption, there is good odds the state takes the child away from the adoptive parents and gives them to the blood relative they have never met.
 
Random832 said:
If there is a legitimate "fast track" process, and it was used in this case, it wouldn't require anything to be falsified.
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I'm glad absolutely no one in this situation had anything at all to hide, like being the daughter of a supervillain that was running part of a town and making enemies as was stated in canon.

Ack said:
Amy doesn't want Carol put in jail. She doesn't want the BB PRT to go down in a flaming heap.
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Silly Amy, you don't need to try saving things that aren't worth saving.
 
Random832 said:
There's a difference between "falsified" and "sealed". The latter would be appropriate, but the former is what Lisa says happened.
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Sealed records can be opened.

Falsified (or even amended; even Lisa can get stuff wrong) documents can be read all day long, and give the wrong information :p
 
I think I'm just going to take a running dive out of this conversation between people who don't really care either way (*waves hand*) and those who want real life to work in fanfiction written about Worm.

Because fuck it. I don't care either way.
 
Ack said:
Sealed records can be opened.

Falsified (or even amended; even Lisa can get stuff wrong) documents can be read all day long, and give the wrong information :p
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Yes, and one is legal and the other all kinds of illegal. I'm not saying that this is the direction you will go with the story. I AM looking forwards to what direction you choose to go. I just take one look at this and see an escalating problem that Amy pulls out her first hammer (no more healing) only to watch the Protectorate pull out a hammer of their own (harass you with MS protocal, tell you to pound sand, get your mother to basically disown you).

Well that didn't work. Amy tries to counter their hammer (her mother) and get more leverage to free her father. Maybe she gets a lawyer who is willing to argue that the arrest wasn't constitutional due to the arresting agents (the Brockton Bay Bregade) made the arrest in the commission of a crime. Maybe the case goes somewhere, maybe it doesn't. I strongly suspect that some very powerful trial lawyer somewhere with lots of connections has a relative with cancer and is willing to take on a prestigious case that is likely to get them into the history books probono.

There is just so much room for a different kind of conflict than is normally seen in a Worm story.
 
Alsmost forgot: I think "Menaces" is another australianism

Ack said:
The public is fickle. If Amelia got to air her own side of it - "I just want my father back." - she might get some air time and sympathy.

Also, Marquis has already done time. It's not like he's getting off scot free for his misdeeds.

(Let's go through this, one point at a time. The PRT knows his secret identity, Amy will be against him going into crime again, he will have to build his criminal empire from scratch with both Amy and the PRT watching him ... and seriously, he would be better for the city than any of the current gangs).

Finally, posting all of Marquis' crimes is the nuclear option. It pretty well guarantees that they never get Amy back on side.

EDIT: and finally, once something like an Endbringer attack or other disaster happens, there will be an outcry to bring Panacea back, no matter the cost. People are funny like that.
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The PRT is a PR Machine. They'll be able to sell their story a lot easier than Panacea can sell hers.

I doubt Marquis would be better. He was a gangleader back during the bad days. Meaning that the situation at the beginning of canon is better than it was before.

The PRT doesn't need to post his crimes. They should be on public record, shouldn't they?

Frankly, I don't expect Panacea to hold out after an Endbringer shows up. It'll punch her right in the guilt complex
 
Jcogginsa said:
Alsmost forgot: I think "Menaces" is another australianism


The PRT is a PR Machine. They'll be able to sell their story a lot easier than Panacea can sell hers.
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... maybe :p

Jcogginsa said:
I doubt Marquis would be better. He was a gangleader back during the bad days. Meaning that the situation at the beginning of canon is better than it was before.
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The situation when he was a gang leader had Galvanate (an ex mob enforcer), Allfather (Empire Eighty-Eight), the Teeth, and the Nine dropping in at some point. So he was definitely the pick of the bunch, even then.

Jcogginsa said:
The PRT doesn't need to post his crimes. They should be on public record, shouldn't they?

Frankly, I don't expect Panacea to hold out after an Endbringer shows up. It'll punch her right in the guilt complex
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... which was essentially instilled in her by Carol.

But we shall see.
 
Jcogginsa said:
The PRT is a PR Machine. They'll be able to sell their story a lot easier than Panacea can sell hers.
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That's only as long as Panacea is kept away from the media. The minute she gets any media attention she can tell .. Her Story .. (Yes, that's the media drooling over the potential here.)

Why? Let's run down the list:
  • Her father was captured in his civilian identity because he sacrificed himself to protect her as a child .. from the heroes ..
  • Raised by an emotionally abusive mother (shades of Cinderella) who just so happens to be the hero that nearly killed her as an child ..
  • A modern comparison of the crimes that Marquis committed versus what other people have (Lung, Kaiser, and many others) will show that Marquis never hit the "Birdcage threshold" ..
  • When she discovered these facts, she tried to go to the local PRT head and handle the issue diplomatically - without hurting anyone ..
  • In response they threw her under the M/S protocols .. all to buy their media machine time to get warmed up. Obviously they didn't do it for any form of altruism ..
At that point someone, somewhere is going to start looking at the hours Amy spends healing the Protectorate, the PRT, and the public. They're going to realize she's working at least a full time job as a minor. Plus the PRT has been using her healing to convince other heroes to join their ranks .. all without paying her a single cent.

Oh, and the first time she asked for anything - any consideration for all her hard work for the PRT they threw her in a cell, set her reputation on fire in front of the media, and then promptly gave her back to the abusive parents.

Insert shades of child slavery here.

That crunch you just heard? That was the Wards program in Brockton Bay imploding. Followed by some serious damage to the rest of the Wards program nationwide.


tl;dr - Trying to set fire to Panacea's reputation / destroy her political and social backing is mutually assured destruction if the PRT doesn't manage to utterly destroy Panacea's credibility in the first media salvo. They've got too many skeletons in the closet - and too many things that look like skeletons - to risk it.
 
Nicholai said:
At that point someone, somewhere is going to start looking at the hours Amy spends healing the Protectorate, the PRT, and the public. They're going to realize she's working at least a full time job as a minor. Plus the PRT has been using her healing to convince other heroes to join their ranks .. all without paying her a single cent.
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This is fanon.
 
Frankly the worst hit won't be done by the public, it will be done by the Protectorate own capes. If they know that one of the world's best healers won't do any more Endbringers tours of duty there will be a drop of morale that will be extremely painful short term (as in low volunteers for tow or three battles at least) and they will demand something to be done. Some of them will hatet the specific demand done by Panancea but the very fact that they are used side with villains and the relatively clean reputation Marquis had will limit their instinctive reactions.

Even then I hope they don't authorize the release. Here in Mexico we recently had a Capo going through a maximun security prison as if it was made of cardboard so I actually like the fact that a fictional prison is one way only.
 
BF110C4 said:
Frankly the worst hit won't be done by the public, it will be done by the Protectorate own capes. If they know that one of the world's best healers won't do any more Endbringers tours of duty there will be a drop of morale that will be extremely painful short term (as in low volunteers for tow or three battles at least) and they will demand something to be done. Some of them will hatet the specific demand done by Panancea but the very fact that they are used side with villains and the relatively clean reputation Marquis had will limit their instinctive reactions.

Even then I hope they don't authorize the release. Here in Mexico we recently had a Capo going through a maximun security prison as if it was made of cardboard so I actually like the fact that a fictional prison is one way only.
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I don't think they CAN release anyone. Which will not go over well.
 
Ack said:
... maybe :p


The situation when he was a gang leader had Galvanate (an ex mob enforcer), Allfather (Empire Eighty-Eight), the Teeth, and the Nine dropping in at some point. So he was definitely the pick of the bunch, even then.


... which was essentially instilled in her by Carol.

But we shall see.
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Is Galvanate from the Bay?

Also, doesn't matter where it comes from, it's still there. I honestly can't see Panacea staying firm on this long enough to get Marquis released. Even without an endbringer fight
 
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