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Hostage Situation [Worm AU Fanfic]

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You know, I really don't get why everyone in the story is so freaked out about discussing the legal release of a Bird Cage inmate. Yes, the Bird Cage is inescapable, but that doesn't mean a person can't be released.

Also, I for one do not see the point of a prison where release isn't an option, even if it is a vague one. If you are going to toss someone in a prison and make it impossible to ever take them out for any reason, even if it is just to question them, then you might as well kill them instead. A prison you can't release someone from is just a waste of resources and makes the death sentence a kinder option in my opinion.

Personally I think the ability to obtain legal release from the Bird Cage would improve public opinion as long as the PRT can follow through on the strict oversight of former inmate's probation. There is always the rare chance that someone could be sentenced to the Bird Cage and then latter proven innocent when new evidence is uncovered. It would be a disaster if such evidence was ever made public if there was no way to legally release falsely accused.

Plus, I don't see Amy asking for a full pardon, just release from the Bird Cage. I fully expect him to be under a strict probation and likely even a partial house arrest.
 
Jetsmillion said:
You know, I really don't get why everyone in the story is so freaked out about discussing the legal release of a Bird Cage inmate. Yes, the Bird Cage is inescapable, but that doesn't mean a person can't be released.

Also, I for one do not see the point of a prison where release isn't an option, even if it is a vague one. If you are going to toss someone in a prison and make it impossible to ever take them out for any reason, even if it is just to question them, then you might as well kill them instead. A prison you can't release someone from is just a waste of resources and makes the death sentence a kinder option in my opinion.

Personally I think the ability to obtain legal release from the Bird Cage would improve public opinion as long as the PRT can follow through on the strict oversight of former inmate's probation. There is always the rare chance that someone could be sentenced to the Bird Cage and then latter proven innocent when new evidence is uncovered. It would be a disaster if such evidence was ever made public if there was no way to legally release falsely accused.

Plus, I don't see Amy asking for a full pardon, just release from the Bird Cage. I fully expect him to be under a strict probation and likely even a partial house arrest.
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Well, one of the major aspects of there being no escape is basically due to there being no ready-made way to get out, by means legal or otherwise. If there's no door to the prison, nobody can sneak out that way.

As far as everyone in Bet is concerned, the Birdcage is a one-way street. No appeals, no releases, no good behaviour. You only go in if you've committed absolutely heinous crimes, and you're expected to never be seen again.

Also, complicating the release concept are Strangers who could hitch a ride out.
 
Ack said:
Well, one of the major aspects of there being no escape is basically due to there being no ready-made way to get out, by means legal or otherwise. If there's no door to the prison, nobody can sneak out that way.

As far as everyone in Bet is concerned, the Birdcage is a one-way street. No appeals, no releases, no good behaviour. You only go in if you've committed absolutely heinous crimes, and you're expected to never be seen again.

Also, complicating the release concept are Strangers who could hitch a ride out.
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Then I really don't get why the public agreed to it, rather then simply executing the prisoner. I think a life sentence with no chance of parole or release is crueler then the death sentence. I known that Cauldron wanted to keep the capes alive for the Golden Morning, but I can't see a large portion of the public being happy with the Bird Cage.

Detainment is pointless unless there is a chance for release and/or rehabilitation.
 
Great chapter, very good job showing the Dragonslayers different personalities. My first thought about the DragonSlayers kidnapping Panacea was "I wonder how quickly a microbe designed to eat power armor would take to eat the Dragonslayers armor", although it might be even better if Purity outs herself to rescue Amy.

Also I'm wondering what Amy's reaction to the kidnapping will be - specifically what theory she'll come up with to explain how Saint found out about her demands so quickly. Any explanation I can think of is pretty convoluted and ridiculous, but the truth is even less believable.
 
JFC saint. Does he realize how terrifying Amy actually is? And he wants to KIDNAP her? Welp, bye saint
 
Jetsmillion said:
Then I really don't get why the public agreed to it, rather then simply executing the prisoner. I think a life sentence with no chance of parole or release is crueler then the death sentence. I known that Cauldron wanted to keep the capes alive for the Golden Morning, but I can't see a large portion of the public being happy with the Bird Cage.

Detainment is pointless unless there is a chance for release and/or rehabilitation.
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Note that the ones being sent away are just one step down from requiring a kill order. Marquis, Galvanate, Lung, Acidbath, Lustrum, Glaistig Uaine and so forth. People that law enforcement (and the majority of the public) really did not want ever setting foot outside again.

Yes, the whole idea does seem a bit bizarre in today's world, but then again, we have equivalents. Guantanamo, for instance. Prisoners go there and to other black sites and are never seen again. No appeal, no release.

Kektus said:
JFC saint. Does he realize how terrifying Amy actually is? And he wants to KIDNAP her? Welp, bye saint
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No, he really doesn't. She's just a healer, after all.
 
Ack said:
Prisoners go there and to other black sites and are never seen again. No appeal, no release.
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This is verging on RL politics but This is so wrong I need to comment on it. You can debate on how legal, or just the appeal system is, you can debate on if the U.S government is telling the truth about how many people they keep in prison there. But the fact is that:
1)Many people are released from these sites (there are many sites on the web pointing out how many of these people released then commit terrorist acts again).
2)Officially at least there is an appeal system under the military justice system.
 
Ack said:
"The wrong people, love?" Mags squeezed his hands gently, prompting him to go on. "Who are the right people, then?"

"Well, Teacher, for one," Geoff said.
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You'd think they would be more concerned about releasing the Trump/Master.
It's all well and good to have a cause, but it will be tricky to complete it when Teacher is making them lick his boots.

Ack said:
"Well, okay then," Amy decided, thinking hard about what she was going to say. "I'm adopted, but you probably had that figured out already." At Kayden's encouraging nod, she went on. "I found out a while ago that my dad's actually a supervillain. You've probably never heard of him, but he's been in prison for the last ten years. Anyway, I ran into an old minion of his …"

As she told the story, eliding over the more sensitive details, Kayden listened entranced, and Aster gurgled happily in her stroller.
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Oh look, Amy has a older friend she can confide in.

*applies shipping-goggles*
Operation Step-Mom is a go!

Ack said:
First he has to locate her.

After that ... we shall see.
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Ah it'll be easy to locate her.
She's right next to the Glowing Beacon of Laser-Death.
He should definitely interrupt them, what could possibly go wrong?
 
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Jetsmillion said:
Then I really don't get why the public agreed to it, rather then simply executing the prisoner. I think a life sentence with no chance of parole or release is crueler then the death sentence.
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Fear, and possibly a desire for vengeance and inflicting pain/discomfort that is deeply-rooted in the minds of a lot of people, with a huge focus on punishment and very little (or no) focus on rehabilitation of the actual prisoners.

The American prison system in the real world is shitty enough that I've often heard it described as "inefficient garbage at best, inhumane torture at worst"... though obviously, America isn't the only country with a crappy prison system, and there aren't any truly perfect prisons.

But yeah, combine that with a world with supervillains (many of whom are heedlessly inflicting cruelties and torture only dreamt up in the minds of madmen, just for shits and gigles), and it's obvious that they want/need *something* to help make them feel safe.

The Birdcage is a symbol, a symbol that Joe Average can use to remind himself every day that there's a place for bad people in the world, that bad people get their just desserts in the end, and yet it is also a place for Joe Average to feel better about himself... because after all, Joe Average is a good man, in a good country... because they "only lock up" their bad people, rather than kill them.. most of the time, at least. Because killing is what bad people do, obviously.

And even if that means the inmates, even ones that might actually be innocent or willing to change, end up raped, tortured, beaten on a daily basis, or get killed by other inmates, or simply end up living lives that are WORSE than death? ...Well, that's not Joe Average's problem, and it's not something he's really all that interested in finding out about.

So yeah.

Grimdark/grimderp world.
+ Supervillains with a perpetual hard-on for cruelty and murder.
+ Tons of fear and anger.
= A whole lot of bad decisions.
 
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Blaflaix said:
You'd think they would be more concerned about releasing the Trump/Master.
It's all well and good to have a cause, but it will be tricky to complete it when Teacher is making them lick his boots.
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Teacher isn't exactly that sort of Master. You have to choose to accept his power, and it takes time to have an effect.

Blaflaix said:
Oh look, Amy has a older friend she can confide in.

*applies shipping-goggles*
Operation Step-Mom is a go!
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Sounds legit. :p

Purity would, by most standards, be better than Carol as a stepmother :p

Blaflaix said:
Ah it'll be easy to locate her.
She's right next to the Glowing Beacon of Laser-Death.
He should definitely interrupt them, what could possibly go wrong?
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Absolutely nothing. :p
 
Ack said:
He took the sheet and read it. "'I'm sorry, but this is the only way. Carry out the blackmail mission as well. I've disabled your suits so you can't come after me. If you can get Teacher released, I'll let Panacea go unharmed. Geoff.'" Pausing, he stared at her. "What do we do now?"
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I'm confused by this sentence:
"Carry out the blackmail mission as well."
What does "as well" mean in this sentence?
If there were more than one order, I would understand it to mean "in addition".
 
Ok ok ok....... Yes, Saint is a power addicted moron who needs a napalm enema..

But thats not the big thing for me in this chapter....

For me there are 2 big things.
1. Legend is a full member of Cauldron....
2. Mischa sounded just like Boris from Rocky and Bullwinkle!
 
Jetsmillion said:
You know, I really don't get why everyone in the story is so freaked out about discussing the legal release of a Bird Cage inmate. Yes, the Bird Cage is inescapable, but that doesn't mean a person can't be released.

Also, I for one do not see the point of a prison where release isn't an option, even if it is a vague one. If you are going to toss someone in a prison and make it impossible to ever take them out for any reason, even if it is just to question them, then you might as well kill them instead. A prison you can't release someone from is just a waste of resources and makes the death sentence a kinder option in my opinion.

Personally I think the ability to obtain legal release from the Bird Cage would improve public opinion as long as the PRT can follow through on the strict oversight of former inmate's probation. There is always the rare chance that someone could be sentenced to the Bird Cage and then latter proven innocent when new evidence is uncovered. It would be a disaster if such evidence was ever made public if there was no way to legally release falsely accused.

Plus, I don't see Amy asking for a full pardon, just release from the Bird Cage. I fully expect him to be under a strict probation and likely even a partial house arrest.
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Jetsmillion said:
Then I really don't get why the public agreed to it, rather then simply executing the prisoner. I think a life sentence with no chance of parole or release is crueler then the death sentence. I known that Cauldron wanted to keep the capes alive for the Golden Morning, but I can't see a large portion of the public being happy with the Bird Cage.

Detainment is pointless unless there is a chance for release and/or rehabilitation.
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That would make sense if the Birdcage was really meant to be a prison.
But the purpose of the Birdcage is not to be a prison. It is to put the most dangerous parahumans together in a situation where they must fight to survive, encouraging the formation of barbarian-style tribes ruled by the strongest and most capable, to make a ready-made army that could be released on Scion in the final battle.
Otherwise, they would just kill them.
 
Ursine said:
That would make sense if the Birdcage was really meant to be a prison.
But the purpose of the Birdcage is not to be a prison. It is to put the most dangerous parahumans together in a situation where they must fight to survive, encouraging the formation of barbarian-style tribes ruled by the strongest and most capable, to make a ready-made army that could be released on Scion in the final battle.
Otherwise, they would just kill them.
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Yeah, I get why Cauldron wants the Bird Cage to exist, but I don't understand why everyone else would want it to exist. To me, threatening someone with the Bird Cage is more likely to cause that parahuman to stop holding back in fights, cause if you are going to the Bird Cage when caught you might as well die fighting.
 
Jetsmillion said:
Yeah, I get why Cauldron wants the Bird Cage to exist, but I don't understand why everyone else would want it to exist. To me, threatening someone with the Bird Cage is more likely to cause that parahuman to stop holding back in fights, cause if you are going to the Bird Cage when caught you might as well die fighting.
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It doesn't matter what everyone else wants or thinks. Cauldron wanted the Birdcage, so Contessa made sure it happened. Tha fact that is doesn't make sense is not relevant.
 
Ah yes, Contessa. The person that make so many Worm fanfiction writers include some power or ability that lets their character no sell Thinkers.

I really don't get how the Path to Victory can be such an auto win, and yet Eden crashes into the Earth because she isn't paying attention while using it.
 
Jetsmillion said:
Ah yes, Contessa. The person that make so many Worm fanfiction writers include some power or ability that lets their character no sell Thinkers.

I really don't get how the Path to Victory can be such an auto win, and yet Eden crashes into the Earth because she isn't paying attention while using it.
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PtV isn't an auto win, even ignoring the blank spots Contessa has it's main weakness is that it won't give you solutions to problems you didn't ask about. For example if Contessa ran a path "Stop Saint from causing Dragon problems" the path might result in him self destructing very publicly so he wouldn't be able to use any of his codes on Dragon...but in the process would reveal Dragon is an AI publicly something Contessa wouldn't have wanted to happen but didn't specify it shouldn't.

Granted Contessa isn't an idiot and is experianced using PtV so won't make too many stupid mistakes like that.
 
I've done a bit of a rewrite, adjusting the attitude of the Dragonslayers toward Teacher.
 
Fizzfaldt said:
I'm confused by this sentence:
"Carry out the blackmail mission as well."
What does "as well" mean in this sentence?
If there were more than one order, I would understand it to mean "in addition".
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There's two parts to the operation:
1] Kidnap Panacea without getting caught.
2] Blackmail PRT into releasing Teacher
3] ...Profit.
this plan seems much better now that he's put distance between him and the DSer's... welll, from an OpSec point of view
 
Ack said:
She's a villain. Her father's a villain, she's a villain. If she's willing to hold her power over people to get him released, then she's no hero."
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By that logic, doctors wanting to be paid for healing people, or cops wanting to be paid to catch criminals, and refusing to do so if not paid, would make all cops and doctors into villains/criminals too.

Ack said:
Breaking someone out of jail is a crime, and so is advocating that someone else do it.
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By that standard, every judge who sentences someone to a finite sentence is a criminal, as is every parole board. Eidolon is coming off as a complete lunatic here.

Ack said:
paediatric
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I realize this is a British/Australian versus US dialect thing, but in this case I have to consider it a typo. Unlike most variant spellings (honor/honour, armor/armour, etc), the altered spelling here comes complete with a different pronunciation. Amy, being from the USA, would say pediatric, not paediatric.

Ack said:
As far as everyone in Bet is concerned, the Birdcage is a one-way street. No appeals, no releases, no good behaviour. You only go in if you've committed absolutely heinous crimes, and you're expected to never be seen again.
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Ack said:
Note that the ones being sent away are just one step down from requiring a kill order. Marquis, Galvanate, Lung, Acidbath, Lustrum, Glaistig Uaine and so forth. People that law enforcement (and the majority of the public) really did not want ever setting foot outside again.
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In theory, there's nothing wrong with that under US law. But the way it works in practice is deeply illegal under US law. Canary is a good example -- an accidental death caused by her powers, one that might not have even caused a fatality if she'd said it to someone else, and she gets Birdcaged for a first offense. Her case proves that the Birdcage really ISN'T reserved for just the worst of the worst.

Almost every day, evidence comes to light that proves that someone who has already been convicted, sentenced and imprisoned for a crime was actually innocent of the charge. They were just wrongly convicted. Wrongful convictions happen for all kinds of reasons, ranging from corrupt prosecutors to technology not being as reliable as people think it is to suspects being psychologically tortured into giving false confessions. But however they happen, the mere fact that expnerations like that do happen makes the death penalty and fictional prisons like the Birdcage very problematic.

One situation that could easily arise is a Birdcaged parahuman gets exonerated, and the court orders that the parahuman be released. It is, after all, illegal to imprison someone without lawful justification, and it's legally not much different from kidnapping. Refusing to release someone in the face of a court order demanding exactly that, will result in prison time for anyone who refuses to comply.

It is possible to spend the entirety of your life in jail for contempt of court, without trial.
 
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