Halkegenia Online Thread 7: "Arrun Noir"

[mdkcde]

This time he was answered by silence, and then a voice that was much quieter and hollow. "My name . . . I know my name . . . I haven't forgotten it yet . . . It's here somewhere . . . in the Garden . . . and with my Sisters Hi, Bo, Ki, Shi, Sa . . . Sa . . . Sa . . . yu . . . ri . . ." There was a faint jangling of the chains as the woman nodded her head. "Yes." She said more confidently. "That is it, my name . . . my name is Sayuri."

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I just thought for a second about the POE-M plotline and combined both of them in my head.

Super!Sayuri goes on a rampage and Shion!Sayuri sets out to stop her in the prototype POE-M model.

So she straps into the POE-M while everyone is panicking and no one is looking and then...

 

[NecroMac]

You can count on TH when it comes to making us hate a villain

 

[Mahrac]

Obviously not completed yet since I haven't started yet on her advanced lighting, shadows, and tones or her sheaths and details (Like muscles and scars, armor trims, and such.), but I figured I may as well get the color issue out of the way. Steel or Bronze, you choose. Unless you have another color scheme you'd rather her use.

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My vote goes for bronze

 

[Quickshot0]

We see them during the investigation, they are very qualified. More qualified in fact then Argo given just how much of a disadvantage her information hording is putting them at.

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Hoarding information does not make it so that others can't have it as well. Information is special in that respect, as you can duplicate it without cost. I don't see anywhere in story where Argo has been keeping valuable information from the other investigators. She has at times tried to get the information first, but that's something completely different. She has at no time nowhere seemed to try and hide valuable intelligence, unlike what Valkarian did, when he neglected to tell the other investigators who the killer was, after recognising the handiwork.

She didn't know about that, she wanted him off the case before that even came up. Which makes this bit all the more jarring.

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I believe she decided to remove him after finding out who had concealed information pertaining the murders. So I don't think it's jarring at all, it isn't like people can modify their plans on the fly after all.

She makes it clear here that not only does she not care about the impact this will have on her people but she goes on to say that she set in motion a plan to take authority and control away from Mortimer before she even questioned him.

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That's actually not proof, it would have made complete sense for her to go public just because it's the right thing to do. That Mortimer was also keeping secrets on the side on the matter is secondary to that really. I don't see why this need be any kind of power grab at all, it seems like the smart thing to do really.

And Kirito and Argo are just as if not more biased given their general dislike of Salamanders.

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General dislike of Salamanders? Where does that come from? Especially considering Klein is a Salamander they both get along with rather well. Do they even really consider things in that kind of factional terms? I have my doubts they do really, it seems against Kirito's character at the least. And I can't see why Argo would care about it so much.


[quoteI think you need to re-read the chapter. Because this bit very clearly spells out just why Sakuya is in the wrong here.[/quote]
I think this just underlines our difference in views of how a society should be run, to me it underlines just how wrong Mortimer really is. The reputation of Salamanders etc? What of it? Lives are at stake, that's far more important then some silly faction idea based on looks. Frankly I'm a little worried about his stated lack of concern for the overall Faerie population. Not to mention I think it's short sighted, a lot of people should understand that no one would have expected some one to be crazy enough to continue with something from the game.

As such I think Sakuya is totally right, concern should be for the overall population, not for silly ephemeral factions. You can't create a very stable nation, if you decide from the start to keep on dividing everyone in to separate categories.

 

[CatOnTheWeb]

Hey, would someone mind re-posting the pixiv!Louise pic again? I want to admire it more and predict how she will get each of the equipment pieces, including the eyepatch, but I can't find it.

 

[Quickshot0]

You didn't miss a certain piece of information from recent chapters, right? Namely that those "silly factions" might actually be quite a bit more important than just physical appearence or "likes water", right?

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No, I don't believe I missed that. It's just as far as I'm concerned those are trivial differences. Everyone is intelligent, can be counted on to reason normally and apply proper logic and are quite capable of working together in a civil fashion. If you let such trivialities divide you in to some kind of racial groups that each must be governed separately, well that would be a sign of prejudice and a declaration you don't trust those other people to make reasonable decisions. Which seems like a stupid thing to do to me.

Basically it seems like a repeat of racism on Earth to me really.

 

[tortiecat]

She has at no time nowhere seemed to try and hide valuable intelligence, unlike what Valkarian did, when he neglected to tell the other investigators who the killer was, after recognising the handiwork.

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Except Vakarian didn't recognize the handiwork; he ID'ed the guy from Argo's report of the attack on her, which kind of puts paid to Vaer's information hoarding claim. His sitting on the information isn't good, but it's not nearly as bad as it would be if Vakarian had recognized the handiwork since that means he would've known before the attack on Argo. Citation below:

"Two months, or rather, eight weeks. At the time I was putting a bounty on your head after I learned about the alliance that you and Alicia were planning. He took the job and went off on his merry way to try and plot out how to kill you when you poked your head out of your Faction Territory." Mortimer said without a hint of humor or mercy. "Of course, then I was approached by your former subordinate with details about your meeting with Alice Rue and plans changed. Since then, I haven't heard a thing from or about him. Until today that is."

"Which one told you?" Sakuya gathered her arms into the robes of her Yukata, refusing to back down from Mortimer's gaze.

The Salamander remained as emotionless as ever as he answered. "Who told me about Rip Jack? Vakarian-san of course. He recognized the man that Miss Argo described and thought to report it directly to me. Though Morgiana did come to warn me that she'd told Kirito-san, I suppose her relationship with my Brother counts for something."

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[Anzer'ke]

The problem I have with Mortimer here is mostly with his declaration that he does not require the trust of the other Lords and Ladies. This is...really not true. As things stand they amount to a council in charge of the Fae, meaning that most of their power lies in the connections between them. Not in individual capacities.

This is not to say that their skills are unimportant, certainly not. However the largest tasks, the ones which are not a consequence of their personal abilities so much as a trapping of their being elected to office, those are going to require co-operation and consensus among the nine of them. Mortimer is thinking as a general, not as a general leader working with other such people. This lack of trust is a massive issue, yet here he is almost glib about it. The degree to which this is a result of him falling into his chosen role is probably quite high, however it remains true that this was an error, he gained nothing from this meeting and lost what trust he had earned from Sakuya, who is arguably his only true contender for overall control of the Fae Council, she's also beating him to it soundly and is not even actively trying to do so.

As to from his perspective, I agree with his reasoning. However I am not really sure what the hell he hoped to do with this particular approach. He wished to keep his ties to Rip Jack secret at least for a while so as to avoid dyeing the Salamanders further as warlike, now leaving aside that this is one of those secrets that gets worse when you add trying to hide it this was never something he could have achieved alone.

He should have known this and brought in the other leaders immediately to muster a concerted effort, that might have actually been successful in keeping it back until it would not give a crate of ammo to Rio and his much more reasonable counterpart. Instead he acted like they were still the enemy instead of fellows to his cause of protecting the Fae. Leaving aside that this is insulting it is also highly divisionary, suggesting that he is still thinking in such terms. Which is not a good thing. Mortimer is not capable of fighting the entire rest of the council and as things stand he is headed for that end, people who refuse to co-operate generally do. Hopefully Eugene will take him aside and point out that whatever social difficulties Mortimer quite plainly has, he cannot treat this like a battle with the other Lords and expect to hold onto his office. Nor will he ever be able to keep secrets effectively without everyone's co-operation.

 

[an NPC]

Ah yes, politics. A wretched hive of scum and villainy custom built to house liars, sycophants and bloodsuckers within an elaborate gilded cage upon which such things as laws and acts are passed, ostensibly for the good of the nation and its peoples, but in reality for the benefit of the political mechanism and its continued survival in the cruel world it exists within. Periodically, good men and women are thrown in, either devoured or transformed, lost to the goodness of the world as they bounce from failure to failure, corrupted to the core by the harsh and feral nature of the system.

Yet it is fascinating to watch, just as a wildlife photographer would watch the savage hunt of various predatory animals.

Methinks the remnants of the Factional Warfare System will haunt the faeries for decades, maybe even centuries, to come. Especially if the remainder of the first Faerie Lords' terms continue to be so tumultuous. We could see a massive political schism between the factions, a potential point of pressure to be placed upon them from the outside. It may take a bit of careful diplomacy from the Tristainian side to get the Faerie Lords playing nice with each other again.

 

[Oracle of Space]

Obviously not completed yet since I haven't started yet on her advanced lighting, shadows, and tones or her sheaths and details (Like muscles and scars, armor trims, and such.), but I figured I may as well get the color issue out of the way. Steel or Bronze, you choose.

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Bronze

Ah yes, politics. A wretched hive of scum and villainy custom built to house liars, sycophants and bloodsuckers within an elaborate gilded cage upon which such things as laws and acts are passed, ostensibly for the good of the nation and its peoples, but in reality for the benefit of the political mechanism and its continued survival in the cruel world it exists within. Periodically, good men and women are thrown in, either devoured or transformed, lost to the goodness of the world as they bounce from failure to failure, corrupted to the core by the harsh and feral nature of the system.

Yet it is fascinating to watch, just as a wildlife photographer would watch the savage hunt of various predatory animals.

Methinks the remnants of the Factional Warfare System will haunt the faeries for decades, maybe even centuries, to come. Especially if the remainder of the first Faerie Lords' terms continue to be so tumultuous. We could see a massive political schism between the factions, a potential point of pressure to be placed upon them from the outside. It may take a bit of careful diplomacy from the Tristainian side to get the Faerie Lords playing nice with each other again.

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I think that as long as Tristan is at was with Albion the Fae should be to preoccupied to think about the Factions. Now once the war ends, and they begin a time of peace, then we should see the effects of the Factional Warfare System.

 

[Quickshot0]

I think that as long as Tristan is at was with Albion the Fae should be to preoccupied to think about the Factions. Now once the war ends, and they begin a time of peace, then we should see the effects of the Factional Warfare System.

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But that system doesn't exist as such any more though... All we have is disparate looking Fairies and their nominal leaders, right? And it's not like any one race is going to continue supporting just the one leader either. In story we already see the formation of different parties, as well as that other races are happily working together with different faction leaders now. So longer term wouldn't the dividing lines become political ideology, rather then race?

 

[Anzer'ke]

But that system doesn't exist as such any more though... All we have is disparate looking Fairies and their nominal leaders, right? And it's not like any one race is going to continue supporting just the one leader either. In story we already see the formation of different parties, as well as that other races are happily working together with different faction leaders now. So longer term wouldn't the dividing lines become political ideology, rather then race?

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Exactly, my guess is that the nine seats will end up as basically MPs. You have an area of land and those resident within it can vote on the representative of that land. So The Lord of Gadan part will overrule the Salamander Lord part. This also makes it possible for Arrun to end up with its own lord though personally I prefer the idea of keeping it and Yggdrasil as a shared responsibility.

 

[Vaermina]

I believe she decided to remove him after finding out who had concealed information pertaining the murders. So I don't think it's jarring at all, it isn't like people can modify their plans on the fly after all.

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Nope, she found out the investigator told Mortimer when she confronted him and he wasn't surprised. She had sent the missives to the other FL to remove the salamanders before she discovered that.

That's actually not proof, it would have made complete sense for her to go public just because it's the right thing to do. That Mortimer was also keeping secrets on the side on the matter is secondary to that really. I don't see why this need be any kind of power grab at all, it seems like the smart thing to do really.

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Mortimer isn't keeping the attacker a secret he is trying to do damage control so that when he does announce it they don't end up with racial discrimination against the Salamanders and Spriggans.

 

[Quickshot0]

Nope, she found out the investigator told Mortimer when she confronted him and he wasn't surprised. She had sent the missives to the other FL to remove the salamanders before she discovered that.

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Yes, as I said. I think she decided he needed to be removed when she heard that.

Mortimer isn't keeping the attacker a secret he is trying to do damage control so that when he does announce it they don't end up with racial discrimination against the Salamanders and Spriggans.

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Unfortunate he didn't decide to tell any of the other lords then, then he could have avoided this unfortunate situation where everyone else just does it anyway.

There is another possible interpretation - people are "happily working together" because of imminent threat of both Reconquista and, well, actually staying alive in hostile environment. Once things settle down, this "happy cooperation" can dissolve rather quickly - and rumours of super assassins supposedly working for one of the factions (and another faction being home to most of such individuals) certainly won't help.

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I don't understand, interpretation based on what? What in their cultural and historical background would make this a development with a high chance of occurring?

Note I'm not saying factions can't, or in fact won't form. But why would they form over these lines, rather then say ideology? Different races with in many countries atleast tend to divide over ideology, rather then race in politics after all. So why would that be different now?

 

[TIFFD]

Here's what I think is the major problem here - from what I can tell, there really is no attempts by the Fae Lords to collectively decide on a way to move forward. The Watch/Mob Patrol sprung up as a means to occupy the more twitchy players and appears to be more or less run by the players themselves after the initial organization was done, though I stress this was done rather independently with each Fae race.

This latest altercation seems to prove this point - Mortimer's made a decision, but failed to tell any of the other lords, while Sakuya has made a decision and sent off messages to the other Fae Lords what she plans on doing without discussing it with them (or Mortimer for that matter).

This does speak heavily of Japanese Cultural influences, though, if I remember my lessons correctly - When a leader makes a decision, it's expected of others below him or her to follow through. After all, the leader can't be wrong, right?

Despite what she may think, this could very well be affecting how Sakuya (and possibly the other Fae Lords) conduct her business without fully realizing that the other Fae Lords are on an equal level as they are, not below.

 

[Anzer'ke]

Here's what I think is the major problem here - from what I can tell, there really is no attempts by the Fae Lords to collectively decide on a way to move forward. The Watch/Mob Patrol sprung up as a means to occupy the more twitchy players and appears to be more or less run by the players themselves after the initial organization was done, though I stress this was done rather independently with each Fae race.

This latest altercation seems to prove this point - Mortimer's made a decision, but failed to tell any of the other lords, while Sakuya has made a decision and sent off messages to the other Fae Lords what she plans on doing without discussing it with them (or Mortimer for that matter).

This does speak heavily of Japanese Cultural influences, though, if I remember my lessons correctly - When a leader makes a decision, it's expected of others below him or her to follow through. After all, the leader can't be wrong, right?

Despite what she may think, this could very well be affecting how Sakuya (and possibly the other Fae Lords) conduct her business without fully realizing that the other Fae Lords are on an equal level as they are, not below.

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The solution is clear, they need a meeting chamber, plus some dedicated casters of magic mirror to keep in attendance at all times.

Of course, housing the Faerie Court (probably lesser elements as well as the Lords and Ladies) as it will, this chamber needs to be thoroughly awesome. Hope some people were levelling building skills. I do figure that a 2025 MMO would definitely have at least some of that aspect.

 

[Vaermina]

Yes, as I said. I think she decided he needed to be removed when she heard that.

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But she sent the letters before she arrived.

That means she was planning on doing it no matter what happened and the only thing his knowing about it in advance did was to short-circuit her accusations of guilt and political ambush.

Unfortunate he didn't decide to tell any of the other lords then, then he could have avoided this unfortunate situation where everyone else just does it anyway.

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The same can be said for Sakuya seeing as she had Kirito and Argo report their findings directly to her without giving that information to the City Watch or the other faction leaders.

I don't understand, interpretation based on what? What in their cultural and historical background would make this a development with a high chance of occurring?

Note I'm not saying factions can't, or in fact won't form. But why would they form over these lines, rather then say ideology? Different races with in many countries atleast tend to divide over ideology, rather then race in politics after all. So why would that be different now?

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Because those splits already exist from the game where the Salamanders were basically considered the "evil" faction and the Spriggans almost as a faction were nothing more then paid killers.

 

[Quickshot0]

snip

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I didn't get the impression that the message she'd sent contained anything else then the information on who the killer was. I had the impression she decided on the investigator after hearing it from mortimer.

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Statement on Kirito and Argo not sharing seems false, after all, that is the source of information used by the Investigator to determine who the killer was. Impossible to do if they didn't share this information. Not to mention Sakuya immediately went over to publication of information as well, so I don't see them withholding information at all.

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I don't see your point on the splits, so what if some game had such splits? Why would any Salamander stay in a 'Salamander Faction' if its reputation becomes bad? For that matter, why would they care for a 'Salamander Faction', when they could for instance have a 'Security Faction' instead, where anyone who cares about security can join. Surely this would allow them to gather far more people.(Or a Freedom Faction, a Liberal Faction, a Socialist Faction, etc. Why stay limited to some silly racist defined field after all.)


On that note, I imagine there will be political noises about the factions being split by race, being racist soon enough. There are no doubt many people who will object to such unfair representation of their views, and would instead prefer being able to vote directly on ideological preference.

 

[Larekko12]

The salamander faction is important I guess because I dunno Salamanders look like salamanders hanged with salamander roleplayed in a highly immersive game as salamanders and may identify a salamanders?

 

[GeshronTyler]

Trigger, I liked the recent snip regarding Suisen and Argo- nicely done. As for the dispute between Sakuya and Mortimer, I see it stemming in part from Mortimer focusing more on his role as Salamander Faction leader, and Sakuya taking an "Interfactionalist" stance, and expecting Mortimer (and the other Lords) to do the same. Alicia strikes me as also a "Interfactionalist", and likely Thinker and Yulier as well. Morgianna is likely to be a "Factionalist" overall, but she'd probably make a point of explaining the various postions, and letting the Spriggans decide for themselves what they want to support/implement. The Imps and Puca, now, will likely be "Neutral/Factionalist", not wanting to be more involved than necessary, and seeking to avoid getting caught up in "outside" (Tristanian) matters. Not sure where Rute is going land, whereever he can leverage more business for the Leprachauns, I guess. Last but not least, the Gnomes (I can't remember who was leading them)- probably Interfactionalist.

Exsequens- I have to say, I think the bronze tone works best for me. Now, if you can get Koufu's hair to be actually golden, rather than yellow... Her hair was described as literally gold colored, though I realize that the palete your working with may not make that possible.

 

[zero_traveler]

I just thought for a second about the POE-M plotline and combined both of them in my head.

Super!Sayuri goes on a rampage and Shion!Sayuri sets out to stop her in the prototype POE-M model.

So she straps into the POE-M while everyone is panicking and no one is looking and then...

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I can't remember the name of it, but you basically described the opening plot of the Gundam season that had Zeon steal the GP02A and was chased by a nameless soldier who hopped into the other Prototype and went after him.

GP02A stealing being replaced with Super!Sayuri of course.




EDIT: The hell am I saying? The "Weird Attack causes complete stranger to jump into a Mobile Suit and Pilot better than trained pilots" Is almost Every Gundam Opening Ever.

 

[Flere821]

EDIT: The hell am I saying? The "Weird Attack causes complete stranger to jump into a Mobile Suit and Pilot better than trained pilots" Is almost Every Gundam Opening Ever.

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I've only watched Gundam Wing of the Gundam franchise, but I'm sure that didn't happen in GW...

 

[Rolfson]

I can't remember the name of it, but you basically described the opening plot of the Gundam season that had Zeon steal the GP02A and was chased by a nameless soldier who hopped into the other Prototype and went after him.

GP02A stealing being replaced with Super!Sayuri of course.

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That's Gundam 0083 Stardust Memory. [/trivia]

 

[LGear]

I've only watched Gundam Wing of the Gundam franchise, but I'm sure that didn't happen in GW...

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That's because Wing is one of the exceptions. Lessee the Gundams with "stranger in Gundam" plots:

- Mobile Suit Gundam
- 0083
- Zeta
- ZZ
- F91
- Victory
- X
- Turn A
- SEED
- Unicorn

AGE is an odd variant since while Flit wasn't supposed to be the Gundam's pilot, he was responsible for its creation so he's no stranger to it.

 

[Triggerhappy]

I can't remember the name of it, but you basically described the opening plot of the Gundam season that had Zeon steal the GP02A and was chased by a nameless soldier who hopped into the other Prototype and went after him.

GP02A stealing being replaced with Super!Sayuri of course.

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Actually, that's what the original POE-M snip was about . . .

Watches everyone WTF face when two 'women' kill each other with magic laser swords and then exploding into clouds of metalic debris.