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Gold and Relative Dimensions [Worm/Doctor Who]

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Ellf said:
Yeah, even with TARDIS translation, the Entities think too slowly in of themselves for such a thing to work properly. Especially when they give off most of their Thinker shards.

Plus, y'know, Zion's a dumbass. Eden was the smart one of the pair and look what happened to her.
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Something to keep in mind is that the Time Lords do NOT casually cross timelines or planar dimensions, whereas Worm Entities do so trivially. Time Lords screw around with -Time-...and relative dimensions in space.

So no. Chances of a Timelord ever going back to the Entities home world and telling them to fuck off is practically nil.

Chances of an Entity showing up in a Time-lord held timeline or dimension is low...chances of them -hanging around- is even lower, because even with the Time Lord's relative restrictions, they're still too directly powerful to fuck with, and use several technologies that the Entities are extremely wary of.
 
fallendruid said:
Something to keep in mind is that the Time Lords do NOT casually cross timelines or planar dimensions, whereas Worm Entities do so trivially. Time Lords screw around with -Time-...and relative dimensions in space.

So no. Chances of a Timelord ever going back to the Entities home world and telling them to fuck off is practically nil.

Chances of an Entity showing up in a Time-lord held timeline or dimension is low...chances of them -hanging around- is even lower, because even with the Time Lord's relative restrictions, they're still too directly powerful to fuck with, and use several technologies that the Entities are extremely wary of.
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Plus, as of NuWho (and the Time War), there's walls up between dimensions. Which means Doormaker probably opened up here at a point when those walls were weakest.
 
Ellf said:
Plus, as of NuWho (and the Time War), there's walls up between dimensions. Which means Doormaker probably opened up here at a point when those walls were weakest.
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Truthfully, I'm more interested in what happens when the Doctor finally figures out that he's never seen anything like Taylor or what she has in her head before...and neither has anyone else. Ever.

You know, assuming that happens.
 
Ellf said:
Gone-ish. I mean, it's not gone gone, but 10 does think that John Hurt-him blew it up.
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Timey wimey. :lol

It's terrifyingly convincing too, because the Eye of Harmony is probably on Gallifrey when it " blows up". I imagine that 9 had a really horrible moment when he realised that the TARDIS was some day going to run out of gas.

(11 probably jumped for joy when he realised he'd never need to go back to Cardiff. Ever.)

fallendruid said:
They will have had already done something because the entities are -noisy-
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Xenocide is a very Time Lord thing to do, but only after a twenty year debate and a group vote.

And then they'd make the Doctor do it for them anyway.
 
The thing with Time War is that a lot of its events never actually happened and a lot of Time Lords previous actions got cancelled as well. So it is possible that they did in fact kill off the Entities. And then the Entities were unkilled. Maybe even multiple times.
 
IMHO the post TW Timelords are a pale shadow of their former selves. If the Entities tangled with them before the Time War they would have stomped them, the Time Lords had many many super tech gizmos for just such emergencies :p a single War Tardis would wipe the floor with any number of Entities but post Time War? They are out of War TARDIS's and super weapons, they aren't up to rewriting the fabric of creation to erase magic or making the Gallifreyan body shape standard to screw with the Great Vampires or any of that cool stuff they used to do and I'd guess while they could still defend their own universe from the Entities with a lot of effort I doubt they would be tracking the space whales back across dimensions and turning their shards into cancer cheese for the lols.
 
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fallendruid said:
Truthfully, I'm more interested in what happens when the Doctor finally figures out that he's never seen anything like Taylor or what she has in her head before...and neither has anyone else. Ever.

You know, assuming that happens.
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Probably starts off confused but fascinated, because he lives for discovering something he's never seen before. Then horrified once he starts understanding the implications.
 
Ellf said:
"Yes! That. Interpol is very interested in what's going on here. Thank you, Randy." The man smiled. "So, we're just going to be going to investigate that. See some behind the scenes."
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I don't think Randy mentioned Interpol. To the best of my knowledge, at least in the Ten era, the Doctor doesn't control or know what the psychic paper shows to an individual unless they mention it themselves.

Upon further research, this appears to be incorrect. Sadly, even the TARDIS wikia does not have a complete list of episodes in which psychic paper has appeared, but in its first couple appearances, at least, it does seem to display what the Doctor intended. I seem to recall it behaving differently later, but that might be my own faulty memory or observation. Objection retracted.

Ravellon said:
He could. But he wouldn't. Because that would be Time War all over again.
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Per Wildbow's WoG, the Entities do not actually have time travel. All apparent time travel is precog and physical manipulation. Though they might be able to learn it from him or the TARDIS, given enough time, going back in time and wiping them out before they develop PtV and other shards like it should be perfectly viable.
 
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Takashoru said:
I don't think Randy mentioned Interpol. To the best of my knowledge, at least in the Ten era, the Doctor doesn't control or know what the psychic paper shows to an individual unless they mention it themselves.
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The psychic paper is just a prop. It's all about bluffing. The Doctor has figured out that if he bluffs hard enough, fast enough, and while showing absolute confidence them most people will simply accept what he tells them without questioning him, even with inconsistencies.
 
Schrodinger's Cat said:
The psychic paper is just a prop. It's all about bluffing. The Doctor has figured out that if he bluffs hard enough, fast enough, and while showing absolute confidence them most people will simply accept what he tells them without questioning him, even with inconsistencies.
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I'd like to see evidence of that. It has been clearly shown multiple times that people see clear, accurate documentation based on the sort of person they expect someone who is presenting ID to them to be. They sometimes remark on the particular organization, before the Doctor does, and he takes his cues from them. I don't think I've ever seen him know what they saw if neither said what it was meant to be.
 
Schrodinger's Cat said:
The psychic paper is just a prop. It's all about bluffing. The Doctor has figured out that if he bluffs hard enough, fast enough, and while showing absolute confidence them most people will simply accept what he tells them without questioning him, even with inconsistencies.
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I should also note that it is a genuine piece of tech, because it does not work on certain races that are immune to that sort of mental ability. There is no evidence anywhere in Ten or Eleven's runs to suggest that it is just a prop. Given that other people in the know specifically call it out as psychic paper, that further cements that it is not just a prop.
 
Takashoru said:
Per Wildbow's WoG, the Entities do not actually have time travel.
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This is contradicted by WoG and canon:
Shemetz> [08:26] <Ridtom> Just... how does his power work with Entities? I mean, I get how most powers could (Vista and Legend could push them into FTL speeds, Aegis and Crawler apply better recovery and adaptions, all the thinker powers), but I stuggle to think of how Phir Se (or any time-power really) works on a survival level or on the Entities scale exactly. It seems like it'd solve a lot of
<Shemetz> energy or redundancy issues for them.
<Shemetz> [08:27] <Ridtom> *Issues that these two have in canon to be exact
<Shemetz> [08:31] <@Wildbow> It doesn't solve energy or redundancy issues if it costs more than it preserves.
<Shemetz> [08:31] <Ridtom> Ah
<Shemetz> [08:32] <Ridtom> It's the engine problem I see
<Shemetz> [08:33] <Ridtom> Have access to a new material/source of power, but the engine itself isn't proper for handling the source/material
<Shemetz> [08:34] <@Wildbow> Most of the time they hobnob it with simulation/precognition and manifestation
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The Simurgh acknowledges time manipulation and temporal anomalies in Cockroaches 28.x, as does Scion in Sting 26.x who should know the best.

Takashoru said:
I should also note that it is a genuine piece of tech, because it does not work on certain races that are immune to that sort of mental ability. There is no evidence anywhere in Ten or Eleven's runs to suggest that it is just a prop. Given that other people in the know specifically call it out as psychic paper, that further cements that it is not just a prop.
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Not just other races, but individual humans. Shakespeare is too much of a genius, and the guy in Flatline is too unimaginative. Also we've seen that the Doctor can recieve messages from other people.

It definitely does stuff. There's one instance where the Doctor hands it to a guy and asks him some questions and it acts like a written truth compulsion.


(Also it's a good idea to use the edit feature instead of double posting)
 
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Inkling said:
This is contradicted by WoG and canon:
The Simurgh acknowledges time manipulation and temporal anomalies in Cockroaches 28.x, as does Scion in Sting 26.x who should know the best.
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Neither excerpt has time reversal, though, which is the effect that is necessary for a Time War. Grey Boy's power can be explained by saving and restoring the contents of the field repeatedly, excepting the brain/mind (which might get offloaded, depending). I believe that when both the Simurgh and Scion refer to time distortions, they are talking about powers that are effectively time-manipulation, not actually, considering how easily Grey Boy's power could be optimized to not require time-specific shenanigans.

I will grant you that the quote in question suggests that time travel does exist, but I am unclear if there is any mention of where or how it might work. Certainly, popular opinion by way of WoG is that it does not exist, so there may be more evidence I am unaware of.
 
Takashoru said:
I will grant you that the quote in question suggests that time travel does exist, but I am unclear if there is any mention of where or how it might work. Certainly, popular opinion by way of WoG is that it does not exist, so there may be more evidence I am unaware of.
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The evidence is sparse, but Epoch (WoG), and Phir sē (inference through WoG) seems cut and dry. Perdition/Cody could have genuine time travel capabilities, but his own physical reset suggests something more akin to save states, which would make simulation more likely.

I would be interested in seeing WoG that explicitly rules out time travel, if you can provide the cite.
 
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Sometimes the Doctor can influence the Psychic paper, and given that he's in a time period he's familiar with, he picked Interpol over Scotland Yard. I suppose I can go back and do some minor editing. People were complaining that Taylor was too trusting of the Doctor right away.
 
Inkling said:
Xenocide is a very Time Lord thing to do, but only after a twenty year debate and a group vote.

And then they'd make the Doctor do it for them anyway.
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Except Rassilon, he'd commit xenocide in a heartbeat. Er, heartbeats.

Ellf said:
Might this weekend. I'll also see if I can find some Big Finish stuff with Ten in it for the simple reason of needing his voice fresh in mind.
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Audio is a pretty great format for that lol. They actually just announced a second box set with David Tennant and Billie Piper!
 
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