For All Mankind (Apple Series)


View: https://youtu.be/JNWaVosofxA

First look at Season 3, including some glimpses of the American, Soviet, and Helios' (the private space company) Mars rockets, a space hotel (complete with two habitat rings, shades of 2001!) and a vastly expanded Jamestown.

Looks like we also might get Kelly and Ed both being on the Mars mission crew, Ed really going triple-or-nothing on "family drama exploding while I'm off-world". Bonus points if they throw in Trace and Gordo's son into the mix.
 
Season 3 came out and the US is surprisingly passive in terms of foreign policy. I suspect it's a result of over correcting from Reagan almost ending the world. How the fuck did two NATO countries turn communist
 
Watched the first ep last night, it's solid but didn't immediately grab me like S2. Honestly, it's kind've a minor thing but the production design here feels a little too modern. Part of what made S2 so fun is the way the sets blended the aesthetic of the era (or a heightened "The 80's!" version of it) with the new tech - here, 1992 looks a lot like 2012 (I think I saw some old Dell flatscreen monitors in JSC). Even the Polaris space hotel looks like a discount Expanse set, I was expecting something more practical.

Drama-wise it was fine, wasn't expecting Sam Cleveland to die but I was a little disappointed nobody else bought it, really thought Ed's new wife was about to go on an unexpected spacewalk for a second (is it the woman from the bar in S2 or am I misremembering?). Also, man, Danny Stevens's is a fucking devious motherfucker, playing "Don't Be Cruel" for your first dance (with Karen standing right there!) is some wild shit.

*EDIT* Also looks like this season is gonna cover way more time than S2 - the Mars launch window is in '96 (four years down the line) and the mission's expected to run at least two years. S1 covered 1968 to 1974/5, but with a big time jump in between, while S2 is a matter of weeks? A month or two at the outside?

Season 3 came out and the US is surprisingly passive in terms of foreign policy. I suspect it's a result of over correcting from Reagan almost ending the world. How the fuck did two NATO countries turn communist

Which countries? I went back through the opening montage but the only countries it mentioned were in South America, with Mexico electing an openly Communist president.
 
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Which countries? I went back through the opening montage but the only countries it mentioned were in South America, with Mexico electing an openly Communist president.
In bridging the seasons, they show a map of communist countries aligned with the USSR. I wonder if SEATO is still a thing
 
In bridging the seasons, they show a map of communist countries aligned with the USSR. I wonder if SEATO is still a thing

Yeah just watched those, interesting to see President Hart go full dove and adopting a "peaceful coexistence" attitude, not surprising given that the world almost ended during the Panama/Lunar crisis. Still, two NATO members flipping is a pretty Big Fucking Deal, wonder if Ellen's Presidential run will lean into Hart's perceived dovishness on foreign policy (the extra material also lays out that Hart didn't start the Gulf War as OTL, presumably out of post-Panama war wariness combined with America's greatly reduced dependency on oil).
 
Also seeing the Western south America coastline being USSR aligned brings a smile to my face. Chile, Peru and Columbia maintaining communist states and not having their government toppled by CIA interests paints a better future in this setting

Also Central America has been spared from the cold war regime changes as well since Nicaragua is still Communist. Take that United Fruit Company!

Actually, why didn't the US attempted to back the CIA regime changes in South America in the FAM timeline?
 
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So how far is the For All Mankind TL from making space colonies like in Gundam?
 
Interesting to see that they put the argument of space should be for everyone, not divided into parcels claimed by the few in the mount of the mega-billionaire space enterpreneur. I wonder whether he's genuine.

Edit He does seem to run a commune.
 
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Danny Stevens is the woooooooooooooooooooorst

I get that he's traumatized but seriously, just the worst.
 
Just finished season 1, now onto the Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War season
 
Ed Baldwin is literally the concept of the good old boys club/ nepotism personified.

It happened in previous seasons, but it's getting worse.

Edit : Also, where does Helios get it's cash.
 
On a side note, one thing I find odd is how often the narration refers to Russians, rather than Soviets. The Soviet Union still exists, so why Roscosmos, for example.
 
Anyone noticed Deke and FBI agent from season one are salesman from Dunder Mifflin Syracuse and Ralph, Dwight's friend?

Edit: finished season one, great show but I'm confused. I see they checked the diversity boxes and am wondering if that's all that plausible as they make it. I get how it started with female Soviet kosmonaut, but then even Tracy who was the worst of them got command of Apollo 25 and a bit too much drama about modern issues. Sure these were issues back then too, but do we want a show focused on that?
 
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Okay, at this point I'm fairly sure someone in the production team is a fan of Kerbal Space Program.

That Mars suborbital ascent / MMU rendezvous / suicide burn lithobraking maneuver was nuts. Ed is a fucking boss.

And let's not forget possibly the ballsiest twist in the season: all three crews got beaten to Mars by NORTH KOREA. It's so ridiculous when I told it to some people in a Discord group I'm in, they were all "OMFG, this is so fucking duuuumb".
 
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In bridging the seasons, they show a map of communist countries aligned with the USSR. I wonder if SEATO is still a thing

It works both ways, it would seem--in, well, real life, Finland was a Soviet partner and ally for the length of the Cold War, to the point where it was actually armed by the Soviet Union (and manufactured certain Soviet arms under license), despite not having a ruling Socialist or Communist party (a consequence of the Finnish membership in Anticomintern and role as an Axis partner, as well as the disastrous Winter War before that, where the USSR suffered severe losses but obtained a very favorable territorial settlement--I'm doing the simple version here). While it was not part of the Warsaw Pact, it was certainly considered a Soviet ally, the same way the Republic of China was an America ally despite never belonging to SEATO or any other pact even prior to the departure of the American troops. Also Egypt being a Soviet ally--but not Syria--would be an extremely ironic reversal of history, perhaps deliberately so.

(It might be possible to say something similar about India, which had a decades-long Treaty of Friendship with the USSR despite a formal role in leadership of the nonaligned movement, but it's not filled out red here, so...?)

Then again, we're probably all looking a little too deeply into this (not that there's anything wrong with that). For example, apparently Moldova left the USSR in this setting? And Yemen unified under the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen (South Yemen) and not the Yemen Arab Republic (North Yemen). It's also pretty obvious that they just repurposed a post-1991 map, as all the post-Soviet borders of the CIS member states are visible, and they just colored in all the USSR (except Moldova); they're not showing the provinces of Canada or the internal borders of the United States either.

(Also, it doesn't make sense to call a unified Soviet national space agency--presumably the unitary body of all the major design bureaus--"Roskosmos" or "Roscosmos" either, but, eh, whatever, the showrunners work with what they know.)
 
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Molly Cobb is a force of nature.

Also, is it just me or did some significant chunks of this season not make sense?
 

In retrospect they're not completely nonsensical, but I had trouble keeping my disbelief suspended and found a lot of stuff implausible.

-I could not make sense of the Polaris disaster, a station designed to survive up to 3g in rotation should have elevators capable of functioning at 3g. Also, why were there no other thrusters of comparable power anywhere else on the station that could counteract the thrust?
-How did NASA not figure out Ed was using steroids? Astronauts undergo all sorts of in-depth medical examinations that should have turned that up.
-Why was the theft of Tracy and Gordo's statues not a huge deal? That sort of security breach is serious, not because of the statue but because someone with enough access to NASA to steal the statue could do serious damage. Even a cursory investigation should have turned up the presence of the youngest Stevens the day before and his interactions with the astronaut whose ID was stolen, blowing the whole thing open.
-For that matter, if the terrorists had enough access to NASA to steal the statue, why not plant their car bomb then? Why send youngest Stevens in to do something involving tv transmissions if the goal was just to go Oklahoma City on the JSC? Unless the ex-marine planned the bombing independently of the dad and daughter, in which case how did they fail to notice the large bomb in the back of their fake news van?
-How did youngest Stevens get far enough away from the bomb in time to survive?
-Everything about the North Korean mission- how did they get 6-months to a year's food, water, and oxygen for two men into that small capsule? How did they plan to get their cosmonauts back? That ship didn't look like it had the fuel or engine to get back to orbit and then back to Earth. If it was a suicide mission, then why have the cosmonauts take soil samples? Why send a married man?
-Why imprison Danny in the North Korean capsule? He's a trained astronaut and they need all hands on deck to survive on Mars. Certainly they can't afford to waste food and air on an astronaut who doesn't do anything. Why not at least make him do menial labor away from anything important?
-Why would Margot defect to the USSR? She has zero loyalty to Communism or the Soviet Union, she only shared information with Sergey because of her love for him, her commitment to international space travel, and because she was being blackmailed with his life. She's a non-violent offender, has access to high quality legal representation, and the opportunity to provide valuable information about Soviet espionage operations in the USA with the FBI (including sharing that the Russians apparent have someone in the Justice Department). Why would she prefer moving to a country that she knows for a fact tortured and threatened to kill the man she loves over whatever deal she could end up cutting with the Feds? It felt like the show writers wanted to make a parallel between Margot and Von Braun, but it struck me as forced and implausible IMO.
 
-I could not make sense of the Polaris disaster, a station designed to survive up to 3g in rotation should have elevators capable of functioning at 3g. Also, why were there no other thrusters of comparable power anywhere else on the station that could counteract the thrust?
I've seen enough episodes of seconds from disaster to know that should isn't always helpful. We've never seen the safety report, so maybe what had happened was that the contractor skimped on the aforementioned safety features, and any other station they built are going to be looked at and quickly refurbished.

-How did NASA not figure out Ed was using steroids? Astronauts undergo all sorts of in-depth medical examinations that should have turned that up.
I was under the impression that it wasn't that big of a deal and that Danny was just making a false equivalence. Plus he was with Helios so that's even more of a non issue. Maybe he was prescribed them

How did they plan to get their cosmonauts back?
They were probably going to have him hitch hike back home on the Mars 94

-Why would Margot defect to the USSR?
To escape the consequences of her actions, she weighed her options and figured defection was better than a possible lengthy prison sentence, and a certain end to her career

I don't know about the other stuff though
 
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In retrospect they're not completely nonsensical, but I had trouble keeping my disbelief suspended and found a lot of stuff implausible.

-For that matter, if the terrorists had enough access to NASA to steal the statue, why not plant their car bomb then? Why send youngest Stevens in to do something involving tv transmissions if the goal was just to go Oklahoma City on the JSC? Unless the ex-marine planned the bombing independently of the dad and daughter, in which case how did they fail to notice the large bomb in the back of their fake news van?

I'm pretty sure that the plan was to hijack into NASA's broadcast, do a little video explaining the conspiracy and their manifesto, and then blow up NASA afterwards. Heck, given the fact that the bomb had a remote GSM based detonator, they probably planned to leave before setting it off.
 
In retrospect they're not completely nonsensical, but I had trouble keeping my disbelief suspended and found a lot of stuff implausible.

-I could not make sense of the Polaris disaster, a station designed to survive up to 3g in rotation should have elevators capable of functioning at 3g. Also, why were there no other thrusters of comparable power anywhere else on the station that could counteract the thrust?
-How did NASA not figure out Ed was using steroids? Astronauts undergo all sorts of in-depth medical examinations that should have turned that up.
-Why was the theft of Tracy and Gordo's statues not a huge deal? That sort of security breach is serious, not because of the statue but because someone with enough access to NASA to steal the statue could do serious damage. Even a cursory investigation should have turned up the presence of the youngest Stevens the day before and his interactions with the astronaut whose ID was stolen, blowing the whole thing open.
-For that matter, if the terrorists had enough access to NASA to steal the statue, why not plant their car bomb then? Why send youngest Stevens in to do something involving tv transmissions if the goal was just to go Oklahoma City on the JSC? Unless the ex-marine planned the bombing independently of the dad and daughter, in which case how did they fail to notice the large bomb in the back of their fake news van?
-How did youngest Stevens get far enough away from the bomb in time to survive?
-Everything about the North Korean mission- how did they get 6-months to a year's food, water, and oxygen for two men into that small capsule? How did they plan to get their cosmonauts back? That ship didn't look like it had the fuel or engine to get back to orbit and then back to Earth. If it was a suicide mission, then why have the cosmonauts take soil samples? Why send a married man?
-Why imprison Danny in the North Korean capsule? He's a trained astronaut and they need all hands on deck to survive on Mars. Certainly they can't afford to waste food and air on an astronaut who doesn't do anything. Why not at least make him do menial labor away from anything important?
-Why would Margot defect to the USSR? She has zero loyalty to Communism or the Soviet Union, she only shared information with Sergey because of her love for him, her commitment to international space travel, and because she was being blackmailed with his life. She's a non-violent offender, has access to high quality legal representation, and the opportunity to provide valuable information about Soviet espionage operations in the USA with the FBI (including sharing that the Russians apparent have someone in the Justice Department). Why would she prefer moving to a country that she knows for a fact tortured and threatened to kill the man she loves over whatever deal she could end up cutting with the Feds? It felt like the show writers wanted to make a parallel between Margot and Von Braun, but it struck me as forced and implausible IMO.

Pretty sure the North Korean mission was intended to be a one way trip. Like maaaaaaybe they told Lt. Col. Dumpling and his unnamed co-pilot that the plan was to hitch a ride back with the Russians...but they also gave them a loaded gun. As for the supply issue, someone on Reddit broke it down (can't find the link rn) that it's actually pretty feasible to stuff a Soyuz with enough food/water/air cyclers to make it to Mars, and given that his co-pilot died on impact he'd have double supplies.

As for exiling Danny, yes while he's a trained astronaut he's also a clear and obvious liability - he might have gone cold turkey but he still got three people killed and fell off the wagon like he was getting out of bed. Pretty much everything that went wrong on Mars post-landing can be traced back to him. Given that Ed came like, this close to murdering him after he confessed to the drilling accident and begged Ed to basically let him kill himself launching Kelly to Phoenix I don't think giving him a broom and telling him to sit in the corner is gonna work.

Wrenn Schmidt, the actress who plays Margo, gave an interview with Vulture where she explained that for Margo it's always about the work. She actually compares her to Michael Mann's professional thieves in Heat, who keep taking scores even when they know the police are after them because that's where the "juice" is. Given the choice between spending the rest of her life in prison (no fucking way was she going to be able to cut a deal, the FBI had her dead to rights) and still getting to advance the cause of space flight with a new boss, she's gonna pick the latter every time.

For me, the only two issues that kind've stretched my SoD were (non-spoilered since they're from earlier in the season):
  • I absolutely loved Kelly and Alexei's dorky romance and interest in fostering closer Soviet-American relations, but there's no way NASA wouldn't have made the women astronauts get an IUD or some kind of birth control implant just in case. While obviously no one could have predicted the merged mission and Dani (as mission commander) probably chose people she knew had a low probability of entering the million-mile high club, there's pretty much zero downside to having them just in case.
  • I absolutely loved Dani and Kuznetzov's slow burn rivals-to-close-friends relationship, but there's zero fucking way once NASA and Roscosmos agreed to a joint mission that there wouldn't have been an awkward-but-neccesary conversation of who's in charge and who gets to walk down the ramp first. Obviously a jurisdictional clash makes for good drama and watching her and Kuznetsov slap fight down the ramp was funny as hell, but those seems like item number one on the agenda.
*EDIT*

Re: Margo trying to cut a deal to avoid prison time, pretty sure that actually was her plan before Aleida blew up her spot. She agreed with Gen. Bradford to siphon some NASA funding to the Air Force for their F-22 program in exchange for extracting Sergei and his family. Presumably her plan was to use Sergei's defection as insurance against the whole "passed along state secrets to a foreign power" thing, maybe present it as this long con to enable his defection or something. It's not a good plan, but a lot of hay was made this season about Margo basically being the J. Edgar Hoover of spaceflight so it's not wild to assume she thought she could have pulled it off.
 
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