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FMA Brotherhood: Wahrheit (Current Arc: A Small Peace)

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We won't kill Johan it's out of character for us but we will defend our selves though let me guess who kill his unit it's scar isn't it
Hey @Magoose if we do meet him again what if we force him to do human transition on alchemy so he can see truth
 
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Whenyouseeyou said:
We won't kill Johan it's out of character for us but we will defend our selves though let me guess who kill his unit it's scar isn't it
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I´m 95% sure that @Magoose will let us vote there, and if we have that choice I want to kill him.

And mostly for practical purposes, if you kill the guy who sold you to the Military like a pig for slaughter, any new associate of yours will think it twice before betraying you in the future.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Not really, what we are doing is creating an excellent deterrent to prevent treason from any future acquaintance...

This is no cycle, nobody cares about Johan and he is a wanted criminal... So who is exactly continuing the cycle?
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No the cycle of hate is anyone be it war or an individual like Scar or Johan if we kill him we just feel empty and like it accomplish nothing best to let it go and just beat him but make him alive
 
Fanhunter696 said:
This is no cycle, nobody cares about Johan and he is a wanted criminal... So who is exactly continuing the cycle?
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Johan isn't a criminal in Amestris. He's technically a traumatized War criminal (which may not even be his fault... considering the lack of information on his end) out for revenge against a man whom he believes destroyed his unit and the people who served under him.

He betrayed you, yes. Yes, he screwed you over...

But in his mind: He is trying to earn justice for everyone whom his great rival murdered that day in Bellview.

So... really he is just upholding the loyalty to his old unit, people he can never see again and taking everything he can to make sure he can make them sleep... and rest easy in death.
 
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Whenyouseeyou said:
No the cycle of hate is anyone be it war or an individual like Scar or Johan if we kill him we just feel empty and like it accomplish nothing best to let it go and just beat him but make him alive
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Of course we are accomplishing something...

We are sending an extremely clear message that will make any future acquaintances down the line to think twice about bettaying us, while forgiving him will make us appear weak, and it will make those same acquisitances think that they can betray Alfred without consequences.

As I said before brutally punishing traitirs is an excellent deterrent, why do you think that those who committed high treason were drawn, hanged and quartered? So that people who could be tempted to commit treason would think it twice, for fear mainly.
Magoose said:
Johan isn't a criminal in Amestris. He's technically a traumatized War criminal (which may not even be his fault... considering the lack of information on his end) out for revenge against a man whom he believes destroyed his unit and the people who served under him.

He betrayed you, yes. Yes, he screwed you over...

But in his mind: He is trying to earn justice for everyone whom his great rival murdered that day in Bellview.

So... really he is just upholding the loyalty to his old unit, people he can never see again and taking everything he can to make sure he can make them sleep... and rest easy in death.
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I have absolutely zero problems with his goal, I personally support it, but since to achieve that goal he sold us out to be killed or tortured I don't really feel any sympathy for him or his circumstances.
 
Lest we forget, Ed made a homunculus and stuck Al's soul inside it. Didn't last very long, but it might have if it had been the intended goal rather than a rebound.

The Dwarf in the flask was created using human blood and no souls.

Could we make a homunculus without any human souls by making a flasked being then sticking it in a manufactured body?

Manufacturing a body seems to require parts of our own body... but what if we used an animal, chimera, or human corpse?
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Of course we are accomplishing something...

We are sending an extremely clear message that will make any future acquaintances down the line to think twice about bettaying us, while forgiving him will make us appear weak, and it will make those same acquisitances think that they can betray Alfred without consequences.

As I said before it is an excellent deterrent, why do you think that those who committed high treason were drawn, hanged and quartered? So that people who could be tempted to commit treason would think it twice, for fear mainly.
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Get out Get out you don't understand
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Why? You said that we won't get anything out of it I proved otherwise amd I showed you an historical example of how it works.
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We now know who really killed his unit it's the communist Frank Archer it's like you know when scar found out who really lead to his people destruction that he really hated them so if we direct him to the true culprit he will be happy
 
Whenyouseeyou said:
We now know who really killed his unit it's the communist Frank Archer it's like you know when scar found out who really lead to his people destruction that he really hated them so if we direct him to the true culprit he will be happy
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Frank Archer did not betrayed us, Johan did...

Why the fuck should I care about his happiness?

You may not like it, but killing him will be an excellent deterrent for anyone who plans to betray us down the line, and unless you can prove otherwise you can't say that we won't get nothing out of killing him (and going by any historical arguments, you can't prove it otherwise)
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Frank Archer did not betrayed us, Johan did...

Why the fuck should I care about his happiness?

You may not like it, but killing him will be an excellent deterrent for anyone who plans to betray us down the line, and unless you can prove otherwise you can't say that we won't get nothing out of killing him (and going by any historical arguments, you can't prove it otherwise)
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Are you deaf I mean Frank Archer was the one that killed Johan Unit
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Frank Archer did not betrayed us, Johan did...
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i'd argue that Franks crimes far outweigh us Killing Johan.

For the simple reason that he's helping Father's Plan. Albit in a way that he is more an unwitting pawn then an actual member of a conspiricy.

Johan did endanger us to the conspiracy, albeit unknowingly.
Whenyouseeyou said:
Are you deaf I mean Frank Archer was the one that killed Johan Unit
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Now now, settle down, don't say anything that you will regret.
 
Magoose said:
i'd argue that Franks crimes far outweigh us Killing Johan.

For the simple reason that he's helping Father's Plan. Albit in a way that he is more an unwitting pawn then an actual member of a conspiricy.

Johan did endanger us to the conspiracy, albeit unknowingly.
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If Johan kills Frank, thatbis great, one monster less in the world.

But that doesn't mean that Johan doesn't deserve to die for what he did to Alfred... I don't particularly cates about who kills him as long as he dies.
Whenyouseeyou said:
Are you deaf I mean Frank Archer was the one that killed Johan Unit
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Yeah, and I said: "Why should we give a fuck about Frank killing Johan's Unit? It was Johan who betrayed us, and that Frak killed his unit is is no fucking excuse Johan's betrayal"

And I stand by that
 
Whenyouseeyou said:
Would you say the same thing to mustang if he did it to us @Fanhunter696
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Depending on the circumstances... If Mustang took us to Dante following orders, or because we are a wanted criminal that would not be betrayal because we have no personal nor professional relationship...

But if we were partners, and he betrayed our trust and sold us to Central for intel on the whereabouts of one dude that screwed him over? In that case yes.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Depending on the circumstances... If Mustang took us to Dante following orders, or because we are a wanted criminal that would not be betrayal because we have no personal nor professional relationship...
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Problem is, we could be totally innocent and still be brought before our curropt justice system because the system hates the Truth and we're stopping a genocide that really fuels a monsters literal plans to end the world and become god.

I mean we can cut him a little bit of slack. Just a little, considering he has no idea what the fuck is going on.

Except the Nuremberg defense does not help him here.
Fanhunter696 said:
But if we were partners, and he betrayed our trust and sold us to Central for intel on the whereabouts of one dude that screwed him over? In that case yes.
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Well technically said dude murdered an entire city and an army unit, leaving behind a very traumatized man who wants to get revenge... but details.

As for partners betraying one another to get what you want... I mean, Arthur just fucked off and left Sarah with his mess, after he told two Humonculi to go fuck themselves with Buckshot. :V

Sire he did it to save the paper, but its still a dick move.
 
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IT kinda seems silly that we should start leaving a trail of bodies in our wake just because they followed orders unknowingly from a monster.

Betrayal is one thing. murder because it happens to stop Fathers plans is quite another.
 
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@Fanhunter696 word of advice,careful with the bloodthirst

the SV has a rule against torture and cruelty power trips (rule #2 dont be hateful)

example: ''i want to kill him'' is fine,but ''i want to shoot him in the balls and let him die out of infection'' is going out of your way to unnecesarily cause pain and suffering,wich is frowned by the rules

the usual ban is 25-50 points and 3 days to 1 week of banning
i dont specially care about it even if i dont specially support it (in character i see wasteful going out of our way to kill him or torture him,just one shot him or knock him out and move on )
but mods dont share the same perspective as me so if one happens to check the thread they might infract you

@Whenyouseeyou

while i dont support the bloodthirst i dont see why we should try to befriend johan
he isnt anything of us and we have no reason in character to trust him or care for him

we just knew him like for a week or month,had akward social contact and then he fucked us over,there is no reason at all to give a fuck about him

his motivations might be reasonable (avenge friends),but having reasonable motivations doesnt magically make up for him betraying us,and we dont have any debt towards him,yeah is sad frank killed his friends,but is not our problem

i honestly see johan as merely other player with his own agenda,let our paths separate and go on our own way without contacting each other again
if he opposes us,get rid of him clean and fast,if he doesnt just let him go
 
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