When I got to Vulcanus finding a good sized coal patch outside of the initial one was a pain. I did eventually find one, but like you said, I had to deal with demolisher worms to get at it. Tanks with uranium shells work, at least for small worms, my advice is to get behind them and shoot down the length of the worm, if you have enough shooting speed, and I think 7 levels of physical damage, you can kill a small worm before it can retaliate. Calcite though, don't worry about it. You don't need that much per second, I think foundries making molten metals only consume 1 calcite every 4 seconds.

Enough gun turrets with red ammo and poison capsules will kill even medium worms. You can calculate off the fire rate + damage per shot and compare it to the health regen + hp. The advantage of this method is that gun turrets and red ammo are both essentially free on Vulcanus and don't require any advanced tech or offworld imports, but you do need to set up the kill zones.

If you do like Gleba enough to go there first, I find Spidertrons are pretty handy for the other early planets.

On Fulgora, a spidertron with decent shielding will regen faster than lightning can damage the shield, so is great for walking out over the oil ocean and setting up new areas outside roboport range range, and on Vulcanus two spiders with basic equipment and rockets can take out a demolisher, maybe more if rocket and damage buffs aren't so high from going Vulcanus last. They're also a bit more convenient thank tanks for setting up far outposts, I find, since the inbuilt system is more convenient than making radars work for tanks and click and forget means not having to drive and enables swarms of them, but that was always true.

The kilopedes also seem confused by spiders. I don't think their AI knows what to do with them: It doesn't attack them like a player or a base and just runs around aimlessly.

The spidertron has radar coverage and can ignore terrain, so it's flatly superior, and rockets can actually track fast moving targets like strafers. Tanks and spidertrons also mix very poorly because of collision issues; if you order a spidertron to follow a tank, it'll stand over the tank and the legs will get in the way while driving.
 
Yep. I was doing some experimental designs a page or two back.



I wonder how often that's really faster than just making the items that lead to your desired end product(s) though. And it certainly sounds like it'd be much more wasteful. (Which people argue doesn't matter as much with SA, but I'm coming at it from the perspective of someone playing overhaul mods that don't give so many resources so casually.)

The part I've heard about that gets really janky is making things in foundries, then recycling them to get back parts that you didn't actually use. I think that might be something I'd eschew because it feels cheaty even if it is vanilla behavior. (And it makes me wonder how something like the mod set in my current game, where there's like 5 recipes for low density structures, is handled...)

-Morgan.
So, the problem is that factory complexity goes up rapidly with that situation.

Let me detail the issue on Fulgora itself first:
Scrap is a resource that you can get at quality by putting it into miners, and it must go through recycler machines that can also have quality to get the base resources of the world.
Two of these base resources are ice, and the planet's unique ore. Both of which are basically useless for quality production because the only thing they can make is a liquid, and liquids don't have quality.
What liquid making processes do have, however, is a need to have all input resources the same quality, and the ore to liquid ore process takes stone too.
So just to handle having quality at the first two steps of the Fulgora resource chain use quality, you need one chemical plant for every quality level, and to keep on hand stone of every quality level.
This is mostly a space problem, stone is one of the base resources so you should get it in large enough quantities as long as you don't waste too much of any given quality on unneeded processes.

Next, there is the issue of lower quality unwanted parts. Let me talk about the mess that is making a high quality processor with maximizing the quality of the end result:
First off, you need to work out if you are using ore or direct casting for the resources involved. Going from ore technically gets you more chances of a quality increase, but with the downside that you need to use electric furnaces for one of those increase attempts, and they only have two module slots compared to a foundry's four.
Then you hit the problem that most later products take a lopsided set of increases. A processor unit takes a lot of basic circuits, only a couple advanced circuits, and a liquid that does not impact quality. Advanced circuits need basic circuits, wire, and plastic all of the same quality. Basic circuits need iron plate and wire.
This means you need to make a very large amount of quality wire, a solid amount of quality plastic, and a fair amount of quality iron plate.
However, each step adds a place where a quality setup can in theory upgrade the quality to the next level, which you want to maximize highest quality outputs, but needs a bit more infrastructure to handle happening.

Here is an example build just to work on uncommon and rare quality module 2s:
steamcommunity.com

Steam Community :: Screenshot :: Vulcanus Rare Quality Module Build

Steam Community: Factorio. Vulcanus Rare Quality Module Build
I had to put in multiple "shove the excess into chests" bits here to stop it from clogging up on one or another resource rolling quality too many times compared to other products.
The wire was also shifted from direct casting to made out of plates to help there as well.
I never updated it with productivity modules this build also would want to ensure maximum Rare results.
This entire thing was needed just to make one final product at two different qualities, and honestly I have scrapped most of the uncommon modules this made on Fulgora to get a few more rares using had fed scrapping tests instead of trying to build more arrays like this with them.

You probably could get a large amount of uncommon stuff if you didn't go for scrapping that is somewhat useful, but I'm currently stuck between either upgrading to get Epic at the cost of even more complexity to builds, or just going for Rare with everything using recyclers at key points to maximize rare outputs.
 
Enough gun turrets with red ammo and poison capsules will kill even medium worms. You can calculate off the fire rate + damage per shot and compare it to the health regen + hp. The advantage of this method is that gun turrets and red ammo are both essentially free on Vulcanus and don't require any advanced tech or offworld imports, but you do need to set up the kill zones.

Is there a faster way to load the gun turrets, then doing it by hand individually? It took me a couple of minutes to setup around 70 turrets for a fight.
 
Is there a faster way to load the gun turrets, then doing it by hand individually? It took me a couple of minutes to setup around 70 turrets for a fight.
Actually, yes.
Go to map view somewhere without bot coverage, place down turrets, open them up and then place ammo inside of them, and then make a blueprint of that combined "place turret and add ammo" set of ghosts.
Then you can slap down that blueprint under bot coverage and the bots will build the turrets and then put ammo into them.

You need a good quantity of bots to do it quickly, and probably some upgrades to their carry capacity, but it works very nicely for the time crunch of going after enemies directly.
 
*Get a damage alert* Oh, my captive biters went feral, I'll just go have Bio 1 pick up some more Bioflux and the spider recapture them.
*Gleba has no Bioflux to ship to space* Huh, why don't I have any. Oh, the cold start assembler is out of spoilage. Well, I have some places I can set up reserves there.
*Notices that seeds are very backed up* Wait, how many does a chest hold? Oh, that isn't anywhere near a thousand.
This expansion is an interesting little dance of things.

Also have some basic stuff setup for Fulgora, although I have not managed to get enough of the local resource for science yet.
... mostly because I'm trying to have two rockets worth of the other two special resources on hand, and that is taking a lot of it.
Edit: Or I could have completely forgotten that foundries are not a pass through building for liquids and it has been disconnected this entire time.
 
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So, the problem is that factory complexity goes up rapidly with that situation.

I think that's kind of a "you get what you pay for" thing - a bottom-up system requires more machines (not usually one for every level, with some combinators) and other infrastructure, but the return on a given amount of resource input is higher. And with parameterized blueprints and bots, it's not *that* complex. (Though I will admit that my current setup doesn't include any output limiting, partly because I hadn't figured out how I wanted to do it the last time I messed with it, so even though I can stamp out an all-rarities processor maker in a few minutes, it'll overproduce advanced circuits* because I don't have anything telling it to stop making more. I *think* I've got a solution that will only need one more combinator, but that's based on thinking about it at work, I haven't tried to actually build it yet.)

*Also I'm used to overhauls that don't have silly things like "20 greens to make a blue". (Instead they have other silliness.)

First off, you need to work out if you are using ore or direct casting for the resources involved. Going from ore technically gets you more chances of a quality increase, but with the downside that you need to use electric furnaces for one of those increase attempts, and they only have two module slots compared to a foundry's four.

Hmmm. For plates, the foundry's module slots and production speed is overwhelming in any scenario I find plausible. Foundry plates -> assembler 3 cable vs foundry cables seems a bit situational, with the former producing slightly less uncommons but significantly more rares, while the latter makes many more commons. Foundry plates -> EM plant cables wins on everything but commons though (and even there it's no slouch). Recycling commons might let foundry cables pull ahead, but since part of my design philosophy is "common resources get sent to the main factory for other uses", I haven't tested that scenario.

Edit: Or I could have completely forgotten that foundries are not a pass through building for liquids and it has been disconnected this entire time.

I'm gonna really miss Assembler Pipe Passthrough if it hasn't been ported to 2.0 by the time I start a proper game of Space Age.

-Morgan.
 
I'm gonna really miss Assembler Pipe Passthrough if it hasn't been ported to 2.0 by the time I start a proper game of Space Age.

-Morgan.
This one?

Assembler Pipe Passthrough

Adds more pipe connections to allow assembling machines (including chem plants, oil-refineries (toggleable by settings)) to pass through fluids, like electric miners.
I noticed it today on my checks of what is going on with mods.

... I'm incredibly tempted to go for mods that look interesting, but I want to at least try and finish a vanilla Space Age game before I fall down that rabbit hole again.
 

What I'm running now is actually a fork of that (which I then modified further because some of the buildings in other mods I'm using don't get along with it), but yeah. Stuff like my nanotube manufacturing stack and all the hydrochloric acid my semiconductor plant used and a bunch of other stuff in my Very BZ game would have been way more of a hassle without it. Though it's kind of annoying that with chemical plants it's hard to tell visually which side is the input and which side is the output because the product icons overlap.

I'm not sure I've ever played a completely vanilla game of Factorio (not counting the tutorial/demo), though my first game was fairly restrained - just a couple of things that made bots less obtrusive (smaller size and quiet), and one that removes the collision from pipes. ... I think, anyway, I can't check because I appear to have deleted the old save files.

-Morgan.
 
What I'm running now is actually a fork of that (which I then modified further because some of the buildings in other mods I'm using don't get along with it), but yeah. Stuff like my nanotube manufacturing stack and all the hydrochloric acid my semiconductor plant used and a bunch of other stuff in my Very BZ game would have been way more of a hassle without it. Though it's kind of annoying that with chemical plants it's hard to tell visually which side is the input and which side is the output because the product icons overlap.

I'm not sure I've ever played a completely vanilla game of Factorio (not counting the tutorial/demo), though my first game was fairly restrained - just a couple of things that made bots less obtrusive (smaller size and quiet), and one that removes the collision from pipes. ... I think, anyway, I can't check because I appear to have deleted the old save files.

-Morgan.
I've admittedly avoided the big name mods, mostly because the base game felt a bit tricky to start and I don't build that big to handle what they seem to prefer, but I've tried a whole lot of smaller mods to do various minor to moderately advanced things.

Warptorio 2 was the last one I tried before Space Age, and I kind of liked the premise there. Right now I keep looking at Factorissimo 3 and Modular Turrets, both of which have Space Age support for their stuff, but also both of them seem like they make things easier for me in ways I want to avoid right now.
... also they would need a restart, and that is a leading cause of stallouts.
 
Meanwhile, in my Gleba-first playthrough, it took seven hours before I had a stable ore supply.

That is somewhat my fault. The only way to get ore without personally picking it up is to make it in bio plants, the only way to get those is to kill enemies to get eggs — until you have a stable supply of nutrients that you can use to constantly grow them — and I wasn't focused enough on getting that ASAP instead of, say, teching up towards passable military. Which means I had piercing ammo before I had iron ore being made.

On the other hand, it takes twenty turrets loaded with piercing to have a good chance of killing a small stomper without losing more than a third of them. So I feel somewhat justified. This remains interesting; but don't come here if you want a quick bootstrapping process. Start on Nauvis or Vulcanus instead.

Next up should be scaling bioflux; it's limiting my ore production. But if I pick any more fruit I'll attract stompers...
 
Starting on Gleba means you're locked out of anything requiring coal for quite a while.
Sounds rough considering that half of the things that military unlocks initially are worthless without coal or oil.
 
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Starting on Gleba means you're locked out of anything requiring coal for quite a while.
Sounds rough considering that half of the things that military unlocks initially are worthless without coal or oil.
I'm using the 'Any planet start' mod, which adjusts the tech tree somewhat.

In this case it means I get coal synthesis early. Though I'll need a good supply of carbon to make any use of it... so no, I don't have any explosives yet.
 
I'm using the 'Any planet start' mod, which adjusts the tech tree somewhat.

In this case it means I get coal synthesis early. Though I'll need a good supply of carbon to make any use of it... so no, I don't have any explosives yet.

Ah, it does move it down the tech tree, got it. It's funny that they made the recycler also act as a compost bin to allow you to mass produce spoilage, but unfortunately that doesn't help until you get to Fulgora.
 
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I've admittedly avoided the big name mods, mostly because the base game felt a bit tricky to start and I don't build that big to handle what they seem to prefer

Some of them definitely feel like a bit much... though I suppose some people might say the same about what I' m currently running.* But... I don't know, I just don't like the vibe from Pyanodon's and some of the others. I do like setups that add more complex recipes and chains, but I also balance it out with mods that add additional logistic methods, convenient buildings, and so forth.

*Finished up the blueprint for my new refining setup. 30 different product outputs. (Minus a couple I can't actually make yet, and there's something like 4 I don't actually have any use for yet but they show up as byproducts of what I do, so.) Over 5k belts, 1k rails, a few thousand pipes (mostly to be made into undergrounds), a few hundred power poles, 700+ inserters, 159 furnaces, 78 other machines, and assorted miscellany. Honestly kind of overbuilt, but I'm hoping it'll be enough to get me into space, at which point simpler (read: fewer byproducts) methods of obtaining most of these resources will become available.

Factorissimo 3 (snip)
... also they would need a restart

... It does? o_O

-Morgan.
 
Well, technically they should work fine in an ongoing game, but I probably would have built my fundamentals differently and maybe have set enemies to expand to make more use of the turrets.

Not to mention I've already set up basic builds for four of the five planets in total, and I'm starting to consider doing a more minimal attempt when I'm ready for the final planet to just make it to the system edge once without mods.
 
An earlier screenshot of my base on a new Death World Marathon game, using my Nuclear Power Rebalance mod. (Despite publishing several of its major features, like the nuclear cores option, weeks ago, this is the first actual game I've been able to play with it active. So that's funny.)


This was from before I had a nuclear plant, but I'm posting it to highlight the massive solar field. Despite making solar panels mechanically weaker, and only produce 15% as much power as vanilla panels, I'd say that it buffs the aesthetic, by resulting in truly massive solar fields, which is the equal-but-opposite aesthetic of super energy and power dense nuclear plants. Vanilla panels are so gratuitously powerful that they feel straight out of a solarpunk fantasy. With more plausible (but still absurdly efficient) values, you're incentivized to pave the planet in black silicon. (This was also the inspiration of another of my mods, Black Silicon Seas. The flatness is convenient but is secondary to the aesthetic of total ground-cover.)

But why make solar at all with how good this mod makes nuclear? With the nuclear cores option enabled, as well as Deterministic Uranium Enrichment, creating the first nuclear core is a struggle, since a single enrichment cycle takes multiple hours and only gives you 7 U-235 , while you need 40 U-235 to build a reactor core with which to fuel a single reactor. It burns at 160 MW by itself instead of using neighbor bonuses and a single core lasts 2.2 real-world years at full power, but you'll never actually use most of the energy, so compared to when I last used vanilla nuclear, I feel like it actually ends up near to its original balance, but with (to me, anyway) a better feeling to the process.
 
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Vanilla panels are so gratuitously powerful that they feel straight out of a solarpunk fantasy. With more plausible (but still absurdly efficient) values, you're incentivized to pave the planet in black silicon.

Not really? Kind of the opposite. I mostly ignore solar on Nauvis since the build cost and space requirements are so high compared to nuclear. Solar is pretty good on Vulcanus (34 MW per 50x50 and mass production of solar is trivial), but absolute shit on the other 3 planets (partly because they all have their own broken power generation methods, but also because solar is heavily nerfed on all of them)

Unfortunately there's no way 9kW is enough for space platforms. Might need to bump up the multiplier of solar panels in space specifically.
 
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Unfortunately there's no way 9kW is enough for space platforms. Might need to bump up the multiplier of solar panels in space specifically.

If it makes early space unplayable, my next idea was to add some sort of Space Solar Panels that can only be deployed in space that have the original energy value. The implication would be that they are fold-out panels that extend above the surface of the platform, but how to convey that graphically without obstructing things behind them remains an open problem.
 
If it makes early space unplayable, my next idea was to add some sort of Space Solar Panels that can only be deployed in space that have the original energy value. The implication would be that they are fold-out panels that extend above the surface of the platform, but how to convey that graphically without obstructing things behind them remains an open problem.

Shouldn't the same panels have higher output in space anyway due to not having the atmosphere in the way?

But personally, my feelings on realistic power values for solar panels is somewhere along the lines of "Realism? I sent that to a flare stack to be incinerated for you." I -hate- solar farms. In my last game I didn't place* any solar panels for main power generation at all. Some for "a radar on a tiny island" outposts, a few on isolated or semi-isolated power grids for priming or failsafes**, and that was it. So having them be weaker would just make them even worse and me less likely to want to even touch them.

*I say "place", because it was a Space Extension (not Exploration) game, which requires launching many satellites, so I made a lot of solar panels that then got used as materials.

**My midgame power source was nuclear from the RealisticReactors+ mode, where if you let the control circuitry run out of power the next sentence is usually "then the reactor blew up". At least if it's on the hard settings. Which it was.

My current game isn't likely to have power issues for some time, since my starting site has an absolute -ton- of natural gas. But that'll eventually run out, so I was looking into biomethanol. Which can be made at a net gain, but since some of the machines have really high power consumption (due to Space Exploration having bumped them up as a way to make "turn water and nothing into rocket fuel" less appealing), so the efficiency is awful. I'm thinking I'll probably be taking my code editor and going "lets not do that" for my current game, since after digging into it further I think it screws up the balance for all the -other- chemistry that depends on those things, but I'm not sure what an actually reasonable balance point is...

-Morgan.
 
So it's starting to look like my contemplation of biomethanol was... not exactly premature optimization, but premature -something-, anyway, because while running rails out to my so-far only patch of rare metals, I found even more natural gas. It's starting to feel ridiculous. My previous game had -one- natural gas spot in the starting area, and then over sixty hours in I found a couple more clusters too far away from anything else to seem worth using. This one, I've got three clusters constituting over 20 spots within a not excessively long walk.

To borrow a phrase from rando videos, what is this seed?!

-Morgan.
 
Current side project is done:
steamcommunity.com

Steam Community :: Screenshot :: Probably spent too much time and effort on this.

Steam Community: Factorio. Probably spent too much time and effort on this.

Also ran a rail line to a new oil patch on the starting planet and gave even more work for my single train.
... although solving stone input rate is probably the bigger problem I have there. Purple science needs a whole lot of it and that is the one I currently run low on first when I do major series of research projects.
 
I remember finding the disparity between the number of rails and the number of everything else annoying in my previous game even if they were not always the bottleneck. One or two of one of those, one or two of those, THIRTY???

(Though stone itself was often an issue, because with Very BZ in play I also needed large quantities of it to make the very large numbers of red and blue electronics required for my everything. A slightly excessive amount of the lategame involved hunting down new stone patches and setting up new boat routes to and from them. It was not the only thing I needed more of by the end, but nothing else even came close to stone. This was a Space Extension game, so the endgame involved somewhere over a million beakers of every kind of science, so.. lots of stone.)

At one point I'd been contemplating using for my next (now current) game a mod that replaced the 30 rails with something like 5 rails, 5 uranium ore. But some other mod I'm using seems to have replaced the recipe wholesale with something that doesn't use rails at all, so that turned out not to matter.

-Morgan.
 
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